You’d think that Bartlein would have it dialed in. But, if FG is giving caution, it’s worth taking heed…
Suppressors Dead Air Suppressor Quality
- Thread starter Arc Light
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They “have to stop production of pre-sold runs”… Yeah, that’s how high-quality boutique suppressor manufacturing works…I guess you’re not very familiar with manufacturing and production… First they made a run of X product, then they make a run of Y product, and then they make a run of Z product, etc… etc… in order to equally satisfy their sales.
They chose to introduce HUB based on market demand to expand their sales to an ever-evolving suppressor market, I’m pretty sure if it was nothing more than a foreseeable moneypit, they would have opted to continue as they were. Obviously they saw feasibility in the numbers, and market interest projections to bring it to fruition.
Do you think the manufacturers of those other ecco systems will send TBAC a Christmas card for giving them a percentage of TBAC's business?
That’s where you’re fucking this up…It’s got nothing to do with other companies. It’s a lot about what the customer wants, or they’ll go elsewhere to get it. TBAC choose to evolve with the industry, thus opening themselves up to an all new share of the market with potential new clientele, who may have wanted a high-quality TBAC product, but would have otherwise skipped past them due to them only offering proprietary mounting systems.
I’m Still confused as to why you hate HUB so much… It’s been perfected now, and as long as a can is built with quality and precision, and the end-user uses a quality precise mounting system, then HUB should be the very least of their concerns…Especially after checked with an alignment rod. You don’t check your SR or CB mounts and cans with a rod? I know TBAC is one of the best in the industry for QA/QC, but people are fallible, and mistakes do get made. It’s very possible a lemon could sneak through. Anything man made has the potential for failure or issues.
Hey, nobody cares what you and all the other retirees down in Boca Raton are shooting in between your games of bocce ball. Get with the times old man!
Hey, nobody cares what you and all the other retirees down in Boca Raton are shooting in between your games of bocce ball. Get with the times old man!
Hey, nobody cares what you and all the other retirees down in Boca Raton are shooting in between your games of bocce ball. Get with the times old man!
He's over there gettin' on your HOA, fining you, and leining your title
Actually I've never even been on Reddit, so I'm glad you can assume. I'm also not an AR guy (despite owning my share and building my share), or a newbie to anything firearms related. I started out with lever guns and bolt guns when I was a kid, and have been shooting since I could hold up a rifle. The fact you assume I'm a newbie, or that you THINK you know everything that I know, shows you that I'm not the know-it-all making blind assumptions about people on here. Assuming you know someone you don't actually know, is quite a pompous thing. And it's funny how yall think I get "spun up"... I'm rarely ever mad. I'm usually laughing at the stupidity and Fuddery that comes out of some of the member's mouths on here. "If it's new, or not a big name brand, then it must be a piece of shit..." right? That's the mentality of so many in the gun industry, and it shows here on the forum.
As to why I talk about the things I talk about so much... It's because they're typically relevant, and I know about them. That's all there is to that. No shilling, just pointing people to a relevant product to what they're asking about. Just because I recommend someone look at an OCL can, instead of a TBAC, doesn't mean I don't like TBAC... As a matter of fact, I own 2 TBAC cans (currently up to 11 cans). Let the hate flow through you. The 2 TBAC cans have not been shot yet, so I can't comment on them, but all the rest of them that I have, have put hundreds, if not thousands of rounds through them. I don't go to the range, and put a box of 20 through it and call it a day... When I go to the range, I go do work. Typically 50-100 rounds out of EACH centerfire rifle I take (usually 3-5) + a couple hundred .22LR's in a session. I don't go to fuck around. I go to sight in, test groups, load development, try out a new scope, etc... Am I professional? Hell no. I don't want to be. But I'm trying to get to know my investments as much as possible, so if someone asks me about them, I can give an informed and personal opinion on the item. What's wrong with that?
As for the guys who have been shooting TBAC's forever, HUB might not make sense at all. And that's perfectly ok. But industry does evolve. And HUB has become the newest evolution of mounting. I didn't make that call, the market/industry did. And hating on someone for their mounting preference is kind of stupid. We're supposed to be united against the clowns, not divided amongst ourselves. Were all here for a common reason, right? So why go around hating on folks you don't even know constantly just because you're bored? Seems quite childish.
We'll find out once our SHOT order arrives how popular the Ultra HUBs are. As a point of reference, the Magnus HUB was a poor seller for us.
HUB proponents are a vocal minority that think a 750 word temper tantrum is being right.
Over in realsville, better isn't better, just more expensive, heavier, and more complicated.
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I want to believe part of the reason is how expensive the Magnus is and you still have to buy the adapter + muzzle device.
That is a valid point.
My 1st mask looks exactly like that and I don't care. The guts work perfectly and the squirrels never see it coming!my defense, it did look kinda cool with that aged patina of the raw stainless…
And then add in the fact that the CB system is highly regarded amongst precision shooters, and the SR is the best all-around mount for those who have both precision and hard-use applications. TBAC hasn't given shooters a lot of good reasons to pick a 3rd-party option.
That interesting to hear (HA!). I was pondering one for an 8.3" AR but I think you talked me out of it. I did throw a Hybrid 46 (9mm cap for the .338 so not optimised) on it way back thinking "This is gonna be cool!", pulled the trigger in the back yard and had two simultaneous thoughts...
1) Holy fuck!!! That is crazy loud!
2) The police will be here soon because the neigbors are thinking "Holy fuck! That was crazy loud!"
Not sure what the ideal can is (or if there is one. I do foamies under ear muffs shooting it naked. That little joker hurts!) but the Hybrid 46 and, apperantly, the Sierra 5 aren't them!
I would love to run a Dominus but I don't think it is up to the task? Minimum barrel length restriction for 5.56 is 10.5". My TRIARC misses that by a good bit
Might be time for a 10.5" TRACK barrel. I feel like I missed out. The discontinued TBAC 5.56 takedown seems like it would have been idealI'll trade you a S5 for a Dominus.....
Welp. I’m about a month out on a Sandman K, which I’m assuming is equally as shitty or worse. I bought it because I couldn’t find a S5 anywhere and got impatient. Can still use it as a rolling pin I guess.
I feel like I missed out. The discontinued TBAC 5.56 takedown seems like it would have been ideal
Lol, no you didn’t. The 556TD feels like it’s made of fucking plutonium on the end of even the shortest guns. It’s WAY too heavy to be practical.
Here's another broken S5.
Should have gotten the Sandman-S... K-cans suck unless you're shooting subsonic the entire time.
Was that on the 8.3 barrel?
I run a hybrid 46 with a 30 cal encap on a 16" and it's pretty quiet not the best I have heard but pretty decent for a gasser.
Guess maybe a dominus is in order next
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Yes, sir! Itty bitty bastard!
Yes, sir! Itty bitty bastard!
Does any can sound good on an 8.3" barrel tho haha?
If by good you mean pulling the trigger w/o hearing protection and not having blood leaking out your ears immediately then yes. The Hybrid sounds pretty good!
No. At that point you're just reducing how many forms of hearing protection you have to wear.
Has anyone used a NOX muzzle device with a Dead Air can? I can't seem to find anyone who has actually used it and can tell me if it is compatible with Sandman or Nomads. Just bought a rifle with this device. If there is a thread with this info please send it over. Thanks.
Yes I have several NOX and use them on a SiCo Omega with the keymo mount. Works fine.
K cans have their place.
But not the most optimal if your primary goal is ultimate suppression.
Well…I’ve said it 1000x, if I’ve said it once… I know WHY people want K-cans, but I don’t understand why you pay money for a suppressor that doesn't suppress sound or flash very well just to save 1-2”. Seems like a waste of a tax stamp with only 1 advantage (length), but lots of disadvantages.
The Sandman-S is already short and loud enough with only 5 baffles in it…What’s the point of the K.
Well…I’ve said it 1000x, if I’ve said it once… I know WHY people want K-cans, but I don’t understand why you pay money for a suppressor that doesn't suppress sound or flash very well just to save 1-2”. Seems like a waste of a tax stamp with only 1 advantage (length), but lots of disadvantages.
The Sandman-S is already short and loud enough with only 5 baffles in it…What’s the point of the K.
For some people and some objectives, a suppressor is not just about sound suppression.
A K can should knock down a lot of the concussion, while still keeping a short package. There's certainly applications for those objectives, even though you may not share those objectives with your own personal shooting hobby.
Imagine all the hard work that went into building Dead Air, and then pissing it all away.
I had to laugh at this part of the post:
At this point, it would have been cheaper to recall every Sierra 5, refund 100% the customer's money, and ship the cans back out for free once they were able to catch up on repairs. That might have cost a few million, but it'd be peanuts compared to the goodwill that's been pissed away over the past few months.
Imagine being a dealer and knowingly selling a Dead Air product to someone.
Here's a screen shot, looks like he deleted the exchange talking about the Mask...
Attachments
I like the keymount and keymicro mounting system, but this sierra 5 debacle has caused me to look much harder at other HUB threaded options.
Just another day in the industry for those dealers. They don't care - warranties are a matter to be handled between the manufacturer and the customer, and if that's a problem, another sucker will soon walk through the door.
Unfortunately you could see this trainwreck coming from a mile away...
An OEM suppressor outsourcing it's manufacturing in an industry where the product is highly regulated is a recipe ripe for disaster when problems emerge.
I once considered a Nomad, but it was a huge turnoff to me that they outsourced their manufacturing. Now they seem so overloaded with problems that their CS department has seemingly given up.
Really curious to see where this all goes for DA. They were once the darlings of the suppressor industry (at least to some folks/market segments), and now their reputation is eroding very rapidly.
An OEM suppressor outsourcing it's manufacturing in an industry where the product is highly regulated is a recipe ripe for disaster when problems emerge.
I once considered a Nomad, but it was a huge turnoff to me that they outsourced their manufacturing. Now they seem so overloaded with problems that their CS department has seemingly given up.
Really curious to see where this all goes for DA. They were once the darlings of the suppressor industry (at least to some folks/market segments), and now their reputation is eroding very rapidly.
I'm at three months (going on four) waiting on my broken Sierra 5 to get repaired. Arrived brand new and damaged, visible to the naked eye. Neither DA/KGM nor the dealer cared. I wrote and heard the same thing as others, waiting on parts and may have to force their hand in returning mine. KGM likely deserves as much blame until we get the skinny on where the blame lies. I'm sure there's more than enough to go around.
Rumors are it's all tied up in litigation between the two companies which likely means none of the cans will ever be fixed.
Meanwhile my new Flow 762 arrived literally as I was typing this. That'll hold me over for a bit.
Rumors are it's all tied up in litigation between the two companies which likely means none of the cans will ever be fixed.
Meanwhile my new Flow 762 arrived literally as I was typing this. That'll hold me over for a bit.
I've got a bunch of old Sandmans, and have had zero issue with them... but like others, I wouldn't buy any new ones... I just got a few Silencercos that I'll be trying soon and I hope they're decent.
I spent the majority of my career so far in automotive where there is more outsourcing that most people can comprehend. It's an extremely difficult and risky process during the best of times and with the best of people.
For the wheels to have fallen off this badly suggests there is some serious rot that starts at the top.
I suspect it's all DA's fault. Asking customers that want what they paid for to sign an NDA is pretty telling. Nothing about this makes me think DA is just some hapless victim.
I have no doubt that a lot of culpability lies on DA.
Blaming it all, or mostly, on KGM is beyond foolish.
True... But these folks trying to absolve KGM of any culpability is beyond foolish... Their QC shit the bed and allowed defective product to slip into production. Then they proceeded to build these cans, some with absolutely BLATENTLY obvious cracks in the baffles brand new (if their QC/QA was really doing their job, wouldn't they have caught that?
), and then proceeded to pump as many of them out into the ether as humanly possible.I'm not saying it's all anyone's fault, but saying that KGM is innocent is retarded. I know first-hand just how shitty they treat their DA customers' cans when I sent my Mask off right before all this shit hit the fan, after DA pulled the KGM contract. And yes, thanks to Todd for getting things rolling along and lighting a fire under their asses to get it fixed, even if it took them 10 weeks of the promised 1-2 week turn-around
) for a lazy spray-job where they didn't even blast off the old finish and the letters and logo look bubbly and almost unreadable, and they didn't even bother to clean (media blast) the baffles like I asked them to in the RA because there was some really hardened lead deposits on them that I was having trouble getting off, even in the sonic cleaner (this was before I discovered the wonders of CLR...I have since gotten them nice and clean).I'm not saying anyone is an innocent party in this, but I'm saying there's much more to this than any of us know right now as to who/what is to blame for this shitshow. I really hope DA gets things situated with a new production setup that is more local to them, and gets everyone's cans fixed and back to them shiny-new and perfect. But only time will tell... I do also wish they would address this issue publicly, but if they are under litigation, I can understand both companies being forced under a gag-order until things are legally settled to avoid consumer and public bias. Then I hope the truth comes out.
True... But these folks trying to absolve KGM of any culpability is beyond foolish... Their QC shit the bed and allowed defective product to slip into production. Then they proceeded to build these cans, some with absolutely BLATENTLY obvious cracks in the baffles brand new (if their QC/QA was really doing their job, wouldn't they have caught that?
I'm not saying it's all anyone's fault, but saying that KGM is innocent is retarded. I know first-hand just how shitty they treat their DA customers' cans when I sent my Mask off right before all this shit hit the fan, after DA pulled the KGM contract. And yes, thanks to Todd for getting things rolling along and lighting a fire under their asses to get it fixed, even if it took them 10 weeks of the promised 1-2 week turn-around
I'm not saying anyone is an innocent party in this, but I'm saying there's much more to this than any of us know right now as to who/what is to blame for this shitshow. I really hope DA gets things situated with a new production setup that is more local to them, and gets everyone's cans fixed and back to them shiny-new and perfect. But only time will tell... I do also wish they would address this issue publicly, but if they are under litigation, I can understand both companies being forced under a gag-order until things are legally settled to avoid consumer and public bias. Then I hope the truth comes out.
Ultimately it's DA's responsibility for the product that goes out the door. There's many steps pre and post manufacturing that they (DA) could've undertaken to prevent such issues, but obviously didn't.
Most of the blame falls on DA, regardless of what KGM did.
How many looking beyond DA are also looking beyond KGM? I mean, DA shipped them to customers, but KGM manufactured them and shipped them to DA (presumably).
