- Thread starter Darkside-Six
- Start date
Absolutely. Something bad happens when you put people in groups, with no clear aim, especially. Ive witnessed it myself. Its inexplicable how Ive seen people I thought were "good guys"(myself included) turn into, Idk, something else. Its almost like an unconscious process, where they just go with the flow, no matter how bad their actions are without even thinking about it. Im sure weve all witnessed it in one form or another.
I am trying to be very honest with my own dark side and the dark side of life in general. I will not pretend that I was screaming OMG when watching the atrocities displayed in the video that Forgetful Coyote linked indirectly. Barbaric acts like this have happened before on this planet and will happen again.
What I am still grappling with though is the fact that these acts are openly advertised as promotional material for a supposedly noble (or holy) cause. I have a very hard time imagining even monsters like Hitler expecting fond sentiments and widespread support from showing the details of extermination in the concentration camps for example. There is another level of Barbarism evident in these videos that I find very hard to rationalize.
My favorite passage dealing with what Maggot and Forgetful Coyote touched in their recent posts is from Barry Lopez:
"How is one to live a moral and compassionate existence when one is fully aware of the blood, the horror inherent in life, when one finds darkness not only in one’s culture but within oneself? If there is a stage at which an individual life becomes truly adult, it must be when one grasps the irony in its unfolding and accepts responsibility for a life lived in the midst of such paradox. One must live in the middle of contradiction, because if all contradiction were eliminated at once life would collapse. There are simply no answers to some of the great pressing questions. You continue to live them out, making your life a worthy expression of leaning into the light.”
It seems to me that the actors, videographers, and promoters of the video in question are completely unaware of what "leaning into the light" could possibly mean. I think that could also explain the ease with which they blow themselves and others into pieces. In order to find these acts liberating, "normal" life must be an extremely painful condition for these individuals.
What I am still grappling with though is the fact that these acts are openly advertised as promotional material for a supposedly noble (or holy) cause. I have a very hard time imagining even monsters like Hitler expecting fond sentiments and widespread support from showing the details of extermination in the concentration camps for example. There is another level of Barbarism evident in these videos that I find very hard to rationalize.
My favorite passage dealing with what Maggot and Forgetful Coyote touched in their recent posts is from Barry Lopez:
"How is one to live a moral and compassionate existence when one is fully aware of the blood, the horror inherent in life, when one finds darkness not only in one’s culture but within oneself? If there is a stage at which an individual life becomes truly adult, it must be when one grasps the irony in its unfolding and accepts responsibility for a life lived in the midst of such paradox. One must live in the middle of contradiction, because if all contradiction were eliminated at once life would collapse. There are simply no answers to some of the great pressing questions. You continue to live them out, making your life a worthy expression of leaning into the light.”
It seems to me that the actors, videographers, and promoters of the video in question are completely unaware of what "leaning into the light" could possibly mean. I think that could also explain the ease with which they blow themselves and others into pieces. In order to find these acts liberating, "normal" life must be an extremely painful condition for these individuals.
Last edited:
I haven't been to Iraq, but I can only assume that if today it looked like Japan in 1945. 50 years from now Iraq would produce some pretty good cars.
Screw a bunch of guided munitions, start making more b52s. Might make some folks act right.
Screw a bunch of guided munitions, start making more b52s. Might make some folks act right.
Not that I've done Fk to do my part compared to a lot of great men and women but I'll just say that what people can do for another selflessly on a personal level what may seem insignificant, can end up effecting another person greatly their state of being. So this may still seem like a bunch of hooey from someone who wasn't there but a lot of civies I think will agree with me that even though politicians screw operations and wars over in recent decades, the actions of the frontline guy(not the high up sport generals) the guys on the front taking the true heat, your actions inspite of ALL THE BS is commendable beyond words, its truly humbling to a peon like me, and we won't forget it, and we won't forget those who paid in full. I believe the time is not to go back under this current regime! Just look how a recent outing occured, that alone is bad enough but the past ROEs and other backstabbing of military personal and families by politicians on both sides, its tough for me to want to say its time to go back and fix this. If it needs fixing ROEs be damned its time to clean that slate with truly hellish firepower, not pin-prick here and there. I understand spec getting in there for some imidiate advisment but even that makes me nervouse. Our own domestic borders are Fd, who knows what rats are already emplaced around the nation ready to take advantage of unrest overseas. And I'm not justifying domestic ops, but I'm just saying our original founding values and nation need shoareing up at home, its difficult to see what is truly leading anymore, I don't believe the trust is there at the moment. The national insecurity I think is much greater now than just after 911. Maybe its just me talking or maybe a lot of people agree. Again I'm just a civie I wasn't ever over there; more thoughfull are those who've been in the sht already and have a much better feel for the various tribes than your average American who hasn't served. Its the job of the ave American however to hold all our votes to a higher standard and that ball has been dropped a long time ago-and I'm an equal isle opertunity critic, both sides have Fd up Constitutionally and on a lot of the foreign policy matters though 30 years ago the right was a bit better at the foriegn affairs stuff.
Never mind dropping the ball in 1991, I kinda wish Patton had been allowed to "finish" WWII completely rather than stop it all in May or August of 1945. Don't stop the tanks with Germany nor the silverplate B-29s with Japan! That being said I would agree that the lesser of two foreign evils might seem to be Russia, though my guess is Russia and China want to tear America down as much as the jihadis. It reminds me of the seen from "Airplane" all the people waiting in line for there turn to pummel the guy in the seat. I hope Canada will still stand with us in the end, Poland and Israel maybe as well. China, Russia, most of Socialist Europe and the entire sandbox wants America to fall. Well hopefully true liberty is starting in Europe consierdering some recent ellections but I won't count on it just yet.
I want to edit and ad that even though it would have been easy to nuke Russia in 1945 to stop the cold war from occuring, the people of Russia even by the 1930s were victims who didn't deserve the crap they went through so I would have been a terrible thing when most Russian people did want freedom.
Last edited:
My most pessiFNmistic: most Americans no longer favor true freedom either, most Americans hate freedom. I don't know what they think will replace it but it won't feel like Sweden whatever it is! I think it will be several generations before Americans accept freedom.....again.
....My favorite gunstore growing up was near a rail yard. You could feel and hear the wine of the torque of diesel-electric engines through the windows of that shop! Fantastic machines!
Sorry for all the back-to-back posts. I'll hold off.
I think you are wrong, Americans still embrace freedom very tightly. The thing is Americans have started to think being civil or even civilized equates to a lack of freedom. Its the, if I want to treat you like crap I am free to do so attitude.
Or the, if I want to stir the cauldron of hate vigorously its my right to do so. If some of that hate spills over the lip oh well its not my fault there is hate in the world. Hate is evil and just being itself. So who is more wrong, the hate that is just doing what hate does, or the people stirring the cauldron so vigorously that the hate spills out?
We have become a people who demands responsibility from everyone but ourselves. We blame everyone but us.
We are all human, and the trouble starts when we allow ourselves to be subjugated by folks who deny the reality of that package in its entirety, and endeavor to cleave the embarrassing parts from that package, by writ, by proclamation, by Fatah, by whatever.
We must all be how they would have us, whether or not they eat the same dish they demand we consume. When the sheep look up and see their diet is different, it's all just confirmation of the rule by means of the exception. They're fallible humans, which makes what they do OK, but we must conform to their unrealistic ideals. Mullahs, dictators, political hacks of all stripe actually believe such tripe.
The human creature is innovative, and is so as another facet of the same things that make us aggressive and sometimes violent. When the social architects/engineers act, it is in blissful disregard of the concept that when they pare away at humanity's soul. what they end up with is no longer human. Inhumanity is the unintended(?) byproduct of such processes, so inhumanity in our world really has stopped being a surprise to me. It is simply the inevitable outcome the movers and shakers reap when they endeavor to 'improve' our species.
God save us all from our earthbound and self appointed 'saviors'.
Greg
We must all be how they would have us, whether or not they eat the same dish they demand we consume. When the sheep look up and see their diet is different, it's all just confirmation of the rule by means of the exception. They're fallible humans, which makes what they do OK, but we must conform to their unrealistic ideals. Mullahs, dictators, political hacks of all stripe actually believe such tripe.
The human creature is innovative, and is so as another facet of the same things that make us aggressive and sometimes violent. When the social architects/engineers act, it is in blissful disregard of the concept that when they pare away at humanity's soul. what they end up with is no longer human. Inhumanity is the unintended(?) byproduct of such processes, so inhumanity in our world really has stopped being a surprise to me. It is simply the inevitable outcome the movers and shakers reap when they endeavor to 'improve' our species.
God save us all from our earthbound and self appointed 'saviors'.
Greg
Last edited:
Thats well said, sir.
You are so correct in realizing that a large part of life is just coming to terms with its contradiction, seeing those contradictions within yourself, not blowing your brains out over what you see, and moving on trying to make at least a small bit of good out of it.
When I used to own a ranch near the US/Mexico border I would often talk with the illegals walking north. Most of them were really decent folks just looking to improve their lives. Once I asked one "Dont you fear ending up in jail?" His response..."No big deal, American jails are better than what I had at home...at least I get 3 meals per day."
And what they face in Mexico and Central America is NOTHING compared to the sickness going on in the middle east. Well, the Cartels may be working in that direction.
Obama is sending 275 U.S. forces to Iraq for embassy security
Here we go. Atleast they dont plan on allowing another Benghazi. Im sure theres more going on, but Id think it to be a good idea to go ahead and send a "Operation Jawbreaker"-like group along with appropriate airpower in to start smoke-checking these ISIS folks.
Here we go. Atleast they dont plan on allowing another Benghazi. Im sure theres more going on, but Id think it to be a good idea to go ahead and send a "Operation Jawbreaker"-like group along with appropriate airpower in to start smoke-checking these ISIS folks.
In short freedom requires morality of some level, a basic respect for others combined with the willingness to be responsible for your own crap. Humor I pray stays with us for eternity. Yet there are times now more frequent than others that its just a bit too much "gallows humor" inslulating people from the impulse to counter the corruption through action. Humor is good for criticism those in power but unfortantely it can also make us accepting of problems as the norm and the paradigm eventually shifts to where basic principles of morality no longer matter, and its OK to no longer achieve success but just fall in with a heard.
Last edited:
The saddest part is everything that has been said, and everything that is happening is no surprise to anyone that was paying any attention whatsoever.
The big question is not "why is this happening", but "who funded these mutherfuckers" because they wouldn't be doing what they are doing without food, water, gas, arms, ammunition etc.
I would hate to think my tax dollars are funding this...
What difference does it make?
The big question is not "why is this happening", but "who funded these mutherfuckers" because they wouldn't be doing what they are doing without food, water, gas, arms, ammunition etc.
I would hate to think my tax dollars are funding this...
What difference does it make?
VERY GRAPHIC VIDEO!
http://m.liveleak.com/view?i=d5d_1390322550
I've never been to combat. Let's get that straight. Nor have I ever been in the military. But, I see these Iraqis with their chest rigs full of ammo. Why do they let themselves be captured by this enemy? I would rather fight to the death than be captured by these mother fuckers.
Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
http://m.liveleak.com/view?i=d5d_1390322550
I've never been to combat. Let's get that straight. Nor have I ever been in the military. But, I see these Iraqis with their chest rigs full of ammo. Why do they let themselves be captured by this enemy? I would rather fight to the death than be captured by these mother fuckers.
Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
Makes no difference whether you've been in combat or not. The only people who don't look at that shit and ask, "What The Fuck?" are the ones who kneel facing the Qibla five times every day and pray, "There is no G-d but Allah, and Mohamed is his messenger...."
You know they're going to kill you...and you lay down your weapons? Damn, at least kill one or two.They arent such fucking special for es are they.
If you die a martyr your reward is 70 virgins. What is the reward for being a coward?
you get fucked in the ass by 70 goats!
There were six total! They could've put up one hulluva fight!
Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
I say screw these bastards. Our soldiers fought great and won that war. We then financed and trained them. Lost great men that sacrificed and tried to help them. We have done way more than our share. Maybe they will kill one another off. If they even breathe a harsh warning our way we should turn that whole place into a glass playground.
There is a part in me almost hoping that this is a play from a nation/nations concerned about militant Islamism. First, let them kill each other over the spoils of the 'occupiers' they just 'drove out'. Then let the meanest bastards establish power, get a face and a delivery address for something nasty if they rattle their AKs towards the rest of the world. That's how I would play it. Let them 'win' and parade in the capital instead of having to deal with the asymmetric warfare in the dark alleys and bushes.
This would obviously require some cold-hearted obliviousness for the fate of the non-combatants who get caught in the middle. But I think that most people understand that if you do not want to have stupid things happen to you, it is your responsibility not to hang out close to stupid people or stupid places. My parents did not appeal to bleeding heart Hollywood liberals when the bombs rained down on German cities towards the end of WWII. They knew that this was the inevitable price for having allowed their leaders to go full retard. The survivors also understood quickly that this price was a bargain compared to the prospect of having to shout "Heil Hitler" for supposedly thousand more years.
The idea of 'nation building' and 'spreading peace and democracy' is what turned a successful crackdown on Saddam into the nightmare we are witnessing. You can only lead people in the direction they want to go and the regions where America was successful with 'spreading democracy' had at least dabbled with this idea on their own (e.g. Weimar Republic).
The trouble spots in the Middle East had several centuries to either copy peaceful coexistence from other nations/faith groups or install their own version. Unfortunately, it always seems to have been more attractive in this part of the world to kill each over who rules a particular shithole rather then getting out of the shit. The next favorite past time seems to be getting nasty with people who have a better life (duh!) and then being literally up in arms when more shit rains down as a consequence.
[Insert 'shake head' icon here]
Last edited:
Simple answer would be looking the mirror...... So to speak....
If you look at recent history, it seems a good deal of our worst enemies were previously on our Christmas goodie bag give away list not long before...
Maybe it was the 'Christmas' part of the goodies that did not work. How does Allah's goodie bag look like? Seriously, what would compel these folks to gratitude and some degree of loyalty?
If that question goes nowhere, maybe we should ask what could be done to totally destabilize a region/system. How to turn it into a hell hole better and quicker than they could possibly do it themselves. NOT because we want to do this but as a thought exercise to understand the underlying dynamics of these societies better. They obviously march to a very different drum.
(This is done in engineering optimization. When you get stuck making something more robust and better, ask what could make it worse, what would eff it up completely.)
Last edited:
Nations such as we understand them are a Western construct that has never had much to do with reality in the Middle East and Southwest Asia. Lines were drawn to facilitate imperialist management, not recognize anything close to the much more fluid reality of tribal dominance in small areas and the schism between Shiites, Sunnis and others.
Consider this:
For those of you who are willing to go a bit deeper than the "Kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out" school of thought:
ShrinkWrapped: Islamic Fascism and Paranoid Psychosis
Consider this:
For those of you who are willing to go a bit deeper than the "Kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out" school of thought:
ShrinkWrapped: Islamic Fascism and Paranoid Psychosis
We fund both sides, plain and simple. Funny how that works.
We fund the Shiites in Iraq
We fund the Sunnis in Syria
Unbelievable - or is it?
We fund the Shiites in Iraq
We fund the Sunnis in Syria
Unbelievable - or is it?
Not really if the following summary is what drives the dynamics there.
Then, the best strategy for the infidel would be to make sure they keep busy slitting each other's throats. While the ISIS/ISIL guys get drunk on their slaughter-fest, why not find and fund the next group of radicals that keeps the party going. We party with booze, they prefer bullets and blood - so what?
As long as it is not my blood, my brother's blood, my father's blood, the cousin's blood, the clan's, tribe's, or world's blood - let them have at it.
Don't stand in the way of people who are missing the "Maybe violence is the problem and not a solution" gene.
Last edited:
Though i'm fascinated with PR campaign ISIS pulls with the help of the internet. They've somehow managed to scare half the Iraq into running instead of fighting and to the west (layman west not expert west) to appear as formidable force while being nothing but a bunch of rednecks (and i'm insulting rednecks and their skills here) on Toyotas.
uhh -hmm, not what drives the dynamics, those sheep f'ers have been killing each other for centuries.
BUT, why do they have new toyotas to drive around...
Saudis reportedly funding Iraqi Sunni insurgents - USATODAY.com
White House moves on funding for possible Iraq action: congressional aides
that took about 15 seconds...
I'm thinking good lease plan and full insurance with bonuses... Also good for business as parts for initial build need not be top of the QC line as there is no need to service those vehicles after few weeks and only drive few miles until they are totaled by various explosive devices. GM, Ford or Chrysler should pay attention and bring to ME a competitive product... Now imagine ISIS fighters on a F150 and all the free advertising that would bring...
I just keep seeing Vietnam all over again, and waiting to see that iconic clip of the last American helicopter departing the roof of the Baghdad embassy building...
Those who ignore history are compelled to relive it. Yes, DC, I'm talking to you.
I am damned glad I've got my war behind me, and don't need to embark and deplane into another crap hole where everyone knows they're dogmatically ordained to be my collective executioner.
Our forces are trained and motivated, but only for as long as they fail to grasp that their civilian leadership speaks out of both sides of its mouth when it proclaims its love and respect for those forces. I've enjoyed such love and respect, and now, so do they.
I think all presidents should be buried facing downward; Johnson, definitely; others, probably.
America is broke because it keeps spending its national product on fixing the troubles of a world which simultaneously plays us and despises us. How many of our government icons are actively paid and enthusiastic to place foreign interests before the USA's?
The USA is already viewed as a collection of buffoons. Just ask Putin. 'Gee, we don't seem to have any way to get our astronauts on and off the ISS without Mr. Putin's permission. Well, now; isn't that just special...?'
Our young people have grown up in the midst of this conundrum, and rightly despair for their own collective future. Their eyes are focused solely on the immediate future, they already know the distant future holds no good place for them.
Greg
Those who ignore history are compelled to relive it. Yes, DC, I'm talking to you.
I am damned glad I've got my war behind me, and don't need to embark and deplane into another crap hole where everyone knows they're dogmatically ordained to be my collective executioner.
Our forces are trained and motivated, but only for as long as they fail to grasp that their civilian leadership speaks out of both sides of its mouth when it proclaims its love and respect for those forces. I've enjoyed such love and respect, and now, so do they.
I think all presidents should be buried facing downward; Johnson, definitely; others, probably.
America is broke because it keeps spending its national product on fixing the troubles of a world which simultaneously plays us and despises us. How many of our government icons are actively paid and enthusiastic to place foreign interests before the USA's?
The USA is already viewed as a collection of buffoons. Just ask Putin. 'Gee, we don't seem to have any way to get our astronauts on and off the ISS without Mr. Putin's permission. Well, now; isn't that just special...?'
Our young people have grown up in the midst of this conundrum, and rightly despair for their own collective future. Their eyes are focused solely on the immediate future, they already know the distant future holds no good place for them.
Greg
Last edited:
You have to think who is the winner here? Well the winner is the MIC (Military Industrial Complex) the guys Eisenhower warned us about. When you see on the news that the US is giving a billion dollars in military aid to someone. That does not mean we are cutting them a Billion dollar check. It means we have just issued them a credit to spend a billion dollars in the US Weapons Industry.
When I hear "Kill them all and let God sort them out" I wonder how God feels about it.
When I hear "Kill them all and let God sort them out" I wonder how God feels about it.
God can be hard to understand clearly, but oh so many insist that they, and they alone, do.
No wonder...
I love my Creator deeply; it's His self appointed representatives here on Earth that give me pause.
The Amish and Mennonites share one view; that speaking for God is the greatest sin. Beyond that point they tend to diverge somewhat.
Greg
No wonder...
I love my Creator deeply; it's His self appointed representatives here on Earth that give me pause.
The Amish and Mennonites share one view; that speaking for God is the greatest sin. Beyond that point they tend to diverge somewhat.
Greg
Last edited:
Despite the very serious nature of this thread, I got a good chuckle from this while enjoying the morning dose of caffeine.
Last edited:
These cowards that allow themselfs to be captured and executed like dogs in the street deserve this. I spent 2 years in Iraq and lost several close friends in that time including my roomate. Ive worked with Iraqi soldiers and maybe 1-10 of them are decent fighters. The lot are unable to think or perform common tasks in combat environment. If they cant man the fuck up and defend themselfs, lets the die in the street like dogs. Im so sick of this Radical islam bullshit. We need Mattis back and to fight terror you yourself have to define to the cave man, I will show you the true meaning of terror! Cant deal with these muslims you must destroy them
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk
^^^^^This
Which God? I imagine he/she may feel worn out! That the God(s) are sitting around a table looking at the foolishness of mankind and with weary derision wondering how they could have got it all wrong.
That perhaps armageddon may be ultimately necessary to destroy evil.
...mmmm a date for armageddon?
9:13.07 am 14 September 2015.
Valentines day
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk
Interesting..... mind if I ask where you got this date reference from?
Looks like a gasser to me ('08-'10 Power Strokes have a red insert in the fender vent, where as the 5.4L and 6.8L have a black insert).
Maggot the Great an Powerful knows all. Pulled it outta my ass. $:<)
I found this to be a rather interesting proposal for Iraq:
https://medium.com/war-is-boring/op...e-their-caliphate-then-bomb-them-603e2bdace74
Frankly, this is a hell of a lot more attractive than signing up for another decade playing pop-the-weasel with insurgents, or worse yet, indiscriminately waging a bombing campaign on a civilian population.
https://medium.com/war-is-boring/op...e-their-caliphate-then-bomb-them-603e2bdace74
Frankly, this is a hell of a lot more attractive than signing up for another decade playing pop-the-weasel with insurgents, or worse yet, indiscriminately waging a bombing campaign on a civilian population.
x2
How can they seriously call themselves "Special Forces" and keep a straight face? You cant tell me they are not trained much better, or atleast had the opportunity to be trained much better(from what I heard most Iraqi soldiers slacked off while we were trying to train them).
Which leads to my next question; for yall that have been there, how good or bad of a marksman was the average Iraqi insurgent when we were there? And overall how good of fighters and tacticians were they?
And, would you say these ISIS insurgents are any better fighters than the insurgents we faced before, due to their experience in Syria? I would think the ones still alive after fighting atleast have a sense of the basics of how not to die in a shootout, but according to "American Sniper" the insurgents he was facing were largely scrubs with a few exceptions.
im just a lowly secret squirrel type so take this fwiw... IMHO you are absolutely correct. While i dont think that its reason enough to killing inocent people i do beleive that theres a legitmate bitch about how teh US gets its little hands involved in everything. We as a country would be hard pressed to let another country tell us how to do something or fuck with our realtions. (in reality we do, but its a secret). So why would we expect any other country to like it when we do it? Iran is a great example. If i ran Iran i would tell the US to fuck off also. So let me see, the one coutnry in the world that has actually nuked another country is telling me i cant have one becuase i might use it... yeah. fuck you. LOL. Heres my solution. Stop fucking with people lives and internal polictics. Make one simple policy. Do what you want to do, we dont care. Hurt an American or American ally and we will blow up your shit, then leave. No nation bulding. No aid for rebuilding. Just destruction in rataliation and you can bury your own bodies. Let the chips fall where they may. That may be my own ignorance speaking ( or reading too much machiavelli) but i dont see how we can ever expect the rest of the world to respect us when we act this way.
I'm not saying that I disagree with your basic idea that important US national interests are brought up way too often to get involved with military assets. By idiotic pol*&^ns.
Document: Iran Caught Red-Handed Shipping Arms to Taliban
Jun 6, 2007 6:00pm
NATO officials say they have caught Iran red-handed, shipping heavy arms, C4 explosives and advanced roadside bombs to the Taliban for use against NATO forces, in what the officials say is a dramatic escalation of Iran’s proxy war against the United States and Great Britain. "It is inconceivable that it is anyone other than the Iranian government that’s doing it," said former White House counterterrorism official Richard Clarke, an ABC News consultant. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates stopped short earlier this week of blaming Iran, saying the U.S. did not have evidence "of the involvement of the Iranian government in support of the Taliban." But an analysis by a senior coalition official, obtained by the Blotter on ABCNews.com, concludes there is clear evidence of Iran’s involvement. "This is part of a considered policy," says the analysis, "rather than the result of low-level corruption and weapons smuggling." Iran and the Taliban had been fierce enemies when the Taliban was in power in Afghanistan, and their apparent collaboration came as a surprise to some in the intelligence community. "I think their goal is to make it very clear that Iran has the capability to make life worse for the United States on a variety of fronts," said Seth Jones of the Rand Institute, "even if they have to do some business with a group that has historically been their enemy." The coalition analysis says munitions recovered in two Iranian convoys, on April 11 and May 3, had "clear indications that they originated in Iran. Some were identical to Iranian supplied goods previously discovered in Iraq." The April convoy was tracked from Iran into Helmand province and led a fierce firefight that destroyed one vehicle, according to the official analysis. A second vehicle was reportedly found to contain small arms ammunition, mortar rounds and more than 650 pounds of C4 demolition charges. A second convoy of two vehicles was spotted on May 3 and led to the capture of five occupants and the seizure of RPG-7mm rockets and more than 1,000 pounds of C4, the analysis says. Also among the munitions are components for the lethal EFPs, or explosive formed projectiles, the roadside bombs that U.S. officials say Iran has provided to Iraqi insurgents with deadly results. "These clearly have the hallmarks of the Iranian Revolution Guards’ Quds force," said Jones. The coalition diplomatic message says the demolition charges "contained the same fake U.S. markings found on explosives recovered from insurgents operating in the Baghdad area." "We believe these intercepted munitions are part of a much bigger flow of support from Iran to the Taliban," the message says. The Taliban receives larger supplies of weapons through profits from opium dealing, officials say, but the Iranian presence could be significant. "It means the insurgency in Afghanistan is likely to be prolonged," said Jones. "It would be a much more potent force."
Document: Iran Caught Red-Handed Shipping Arms to Taliban - ABC News
Iran’s Quds Force was blamed for attacks on U.S. troops in Iraq
By William Branigin December 31, 1969
"The Quds Force, the elite Iranian unit implicated Tuesday by the Justice Department in an alleged plot to assassinate the Saudi ambassador to Washington, was formed during the 1980s as part of the Revolutionary Guard Corps. Since then, it has evolved into a premier special forces unit responsible for foreign operations, including, U.S. officials have said, attacks on American troops in Iraq.
Named for the Arabic word for Jerusalem, the Quds Force has long been associated with training and equipping Islamic revolutionary groups around the Middle East, notably the Palestinian militant group Hamas in the Gaza Strip and the armed Shiite group Hezbollah in Lebanon.
During Iran’s 1980-88 war with neighboring Iraq, the Quds Force helped Iraqi Kurds fight Saddam Hussein as part of the war effort of the Revolutionary Guard, the military branch created to protect Iran’s 1979 Islamic revolution. Like the Revolutionary Guard, the Quds Force is believed to report directly to Iran’s supreme leader, bypassing the president. The current supreme leader, the Shiite Muslim cleric who serves as the country’s top religious and political authority, is Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.
In 1994, a Quds Force commander was suspected of helping to plan and finance an attack by Hezbollah operatives on a Jewish center in Buenos Aires in which 85 people were killed.
But it was after U.S. forces invaded Iraq in 2003 that the force emerged as a shadowy but deadly threat to American troops. According to U.S. generals, the Quds Force supported Iraqi Shiite militias and helped plan a January 2007 raid on U.S. troops in the city of Karbala. Four American soldiers were captured in the raid and later killed.
The Pentagon also charged that Quds Force members were involved in smuggling sophisticated bombs and other weapons into Iraq for use against American troops. In late 2006, U.S. forces in northern Iraq seized two Iranians later identified as top Quds Force officers — Brig Gen. Mohsen Chirazi and Col. Abu Amad Davari.
In February 2007, President George W. Bush publicly charged that “the Quds Force, a part of the Iranian government, has provided these sophisticated IEDs [improvised explosive devices] that have harmed our troops” in Iraq.
But Bush said he did not know whether the force’s orders came from “the top echelons” of the government of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. “Whether Ahmadinejad ordered the Quds Force to do this, I don’t think we know,” Bush said. “But we do know that they’re there” in Iraq and that the Quds Force is “a vital part of the Iranian government.”
In talking about assassination accusations revealed Tuesday, U.S. officials said it was unclear who in Iran ordered or knew about the alleged plot.
Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. called the Quds Force “a component of the Iranian government” and charged that the plot was “directed and approved by elements of the Iranian government.” But in response to a question, he demurred on whether the operation was known or “blessed” at the very top of the Iranian hierarchy.
“We are not making that charge at this point,” Holder said.
In April, the Obama administration accused the Quds Force of helping the government of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad carry out a brutal crackdown on protesters inspired by the Arab Spring movements. The Quds Force was included on a list of people and entities subject to new U.S. sanctions imposed because of the crackdown."
Iran?s Quds Force was blamed for attacks on U.S. troops in Iraq - The Washington Post
Last edited:
exactly my point.... Thenk thepeople livign there dont understand the history of all this? If i had to live under some fucked up dictator and knoew the US was funding them, well that would foster some hard feelings lol. im not a tin foil hat kind of dude, but damn it really seems that the only logical explanation for all the crap that goes down in the mid east is that we keep the shit stirred up for whatever reason. Usually us...
as a side note to some other recent post. You notice how its never the leaders strapping shit to themselves and blowing up? But they are the ones preaching about how god likes it. I dont think god gives a shit one way or another, if there is such a being. I got some pagan neighbors, seriously, that dance under full moons and all that shit. I used to think it was funny but now im fairy convinced that thier gods have accomplished as much as mine.... Im considering going down and dancing to the new moon with them. At least i get to drink and party. Secretly im hoping they do some naked shit too. One of them is kinda hot. Im torn between the "morality" that religion brings with the horror that follows. Especailly how it balances out. In the whole, im convinced that many more people have been collectively killed fo rmoral reason than were ever saved. But im just a hillbilly so.......
as a side note to some other recent post. You notice how its never the leaders strapping shit to themselves and blowing up? But they are the ones preaching about how god likes it. I dont think god gives a shit one way or another, if there is such a being. I got some pagan neighbors, seriously, that dance under full moons and all that shit. I used to think it was funny but now im fairy convinced that thier gods have accomplished as much as mine.... Im considering going down and dancing to the new moon with them. At least i get to drink and party. Secretly im hoping they do some naked shit too. One of them is kinda hot. Im torn between the "morality" that religion brings with the horror that follows. Especailly how it balances out. In the whole, im convinced that many more people have been collectively killed fo rmoral reason than were ever saved. But im just a hillbilly so.......
Most are poor marksmen, but that matters not, because they tend to get lucky. However, they pay very well to hire out good marksmen from Egypt, Syria, Iran, even Chechans. Some of those are pretty damn good. In 07 there was a female Egyptian sniper working Baghdad that was pretty effective...until a 40mm HEDP landed in the van she was using as a hide.
Similar threads
