Dump trucks and cracked windshields

[ZLBubba]

I saw a sign today on the back of a dump truck that said, "This truck is not responsible for cracked windshields," all the while windshield-cracking gravel skipped out the back and along the road. I became curious as to who IS responsible for cracks. I know it's easy to fix cracked windshields through my car insurance, but it seems like every claim you put in brings you one step closer to getting slapped with a higher insurance premium.

Do trucking companies pay a higher level of insurance to offset the damage they do to passenger vehicles, or do you and I pay for the damage? I'm just curious because it seems blatantly obvious that a causal relationship exists between hauling gravel and cracked windshields and thus, we should not have to pay to have windshields fixed.

Any insight into how this situation works?

 

[Dagsta]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

I dunno Bubba but I'm with you bro, it pisses me off to no end. They are responsible for it if it comes out of their truck, but try and get them to pay for it is another story.

 

[Queequeg]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

That's funny because it also then follows that I am not responsible for the golf balls I hit into people's houses and bullets I fire that go beyond what I thought might stop them.

Whew!

So I guess we're pretty much not held accountable for anything anymore! I'll call my liability insurance companies tomorrow for my huge reduction in premiums...

 

[SnkBit]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

They are responsible if it comes off their truck, just as you would be held responsible if the spare tire bounced out of the back of your pickup and was hit by another motorist. They failed to secure that load. You'd have to call the cops and file an accident report just as you would any other car accident. Your insurance would handle the fight between them and their insurance. Good luck getting the truck driver to pull over and wait for the cops though.

 

[j-huskey]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

In Alabama if it hits the road before it hits you, it is by law, a road hazard. Much like a rock/object thrown up by a tire.
If it hits you before it hits the road, it is an unsecured load and a citable offense.

If the truck is dumping a pretty good bit and you can get an officer to see the truck losing the "pretty good bit", he can cite the truck for unsecure load. Good luck finding an officer..

Without a dash camera, you have a hard time proving it did NOT hit the road first and you are just pissed off. I have been pissed off many times about this.

I WISH Alabama would pass a covered load law where they have to "net" cover the loads.

 

[Switchblade]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

I spoke with the guy that owned the dump truck company in upstate NY about that and told him that every truck he owned should pull over and let cars/bikes pass so they wouldn't follow. I also let him know that those signs didn't mean anything becaus eall oads had to be covered so if a rock flew out they were still responsible.
All it takes is the trucks licence plate and company name and th einsurance agent calls their agent and they pay for it

 

[Lindy]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

If you don't get within 200 feet of one of those trucks, the odds of getting a cracked windshield drops pretty much to zero. That problem, like many problems in life, is one best avoided than trying to get satisfaction for.

Several decades of instruction in a variety of martial arts caused me to conclude that the best defense was to be elsewhere when the fight started. Same principle.

 

[Jer]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

The responsibility lies with you for following too closely. Just like the responsibility for a broken window to a homeowner on a golf course is the home owner's for building a house on a golf course. If a Ford F150 driven by a person throws up a rock that breaks your windshield is he responsible? If course not. If you don't want a broken windshield then don't follow closely. That's the moral of that story.

Everyone wants something for free these days and can't take responsibility for their own actions...

 

[Rookie]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

In Texas, the truck is responsible.

 

[ZLBubba]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

Define "closely." Furthermore, what do you do when a truck is hauling ass and passes you on the freeway? No shit, there I was in Colorado on a down slope and I'll be damned if a piece of gravel didn't chip my Jeep's windshield. I watched that little piece of gravel bounce down out of the truck, take one nasty hop, and nail my windshield.

The fact is that the trucks cause the damage. The golf course example doesn't hold up, simply because a golf course is a place where golf balls are hit intentionally. It's an obvious hazard. So are you implying that the main purpose of the dump truck on the road is to throw gravel (as the main purpose of a golf course is to have people play golf on it)? Only if I were driving circles around a rock quarry would the golf course example be an appropriatecomparison.

So, back to the original question, do trucking companies pay higher fees to offset costs to the average citizen, or are we just stuck footing the bill for some dude's unwillingness to properly secure his load?

 

[50calibercruiser]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

In Oklahoma they can paint "stay back 200 ft or you're responsible" until their fingers bleed but if it comes of their truck it is their fault whether the load is covered or not. It is their responsibility to SECURE the load. They all paint "stay back..." hoping you are a moron and won't call them on it.

The preceding information was given to me just the other day by one of OKC's finest.

 

[Hateca]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

In Kalifornia unless it's water or feathers it's the drivers responsibility to secure the load no matter what it is.

If the object becomes stationary after hitting the road it's a harder press but until then it's all on the driver.

Also in Kalifornia hitting any object even a pot hole that causes damage or injury is considered a traffic collision.

Every collision that results in $750 in damage or an injury must be reported to the DMV within 10 days.

 

[Jer]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

This is wonderful information. Next time I get a broken windshield I will simply wait until I find a truck, follow it and then get the plate number and get a free windshield out of them. Since that's the way it works these days.

 

[High Binder]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The responsibility lies with you for following too closely. Just like the responsibility for a broken window to a homeowner on a golf course is the home owner's for building a house on a golf course. If a Ford F150 driven by a person throws up a rock that breaks your windshield is he responsible? If course not. If you don't want a broken windshield then don't follow closely. That's the moral of that story.

Everyone wants something for free these days and can't take responsibility for their own actions... </div></div>

Nice antidote but it's not the way our system works. Your analogy is false for many reasons, the most obvious of which is that the F150 isn't actively hauling rocks, if it were, the driver would be just as liable as the OP's rock hauling dump trucks. Dump trucks, regardless of the signs they put on the back are liable for the stuff that comes out of them. If a simple sign could negate your liability's people would have signs all over their cars/trucks, i.e. "This car randomly hits pedestrians on the sidewalk, stay back 200'"

 

[Jer]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shot In The Dark</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The responsibility lies with you for following too closely. Just like the responsibility for a broken window to a homeowner on a golf course is the home owner's for building a house on a golf course. If a Ford F150 driven by a person throws up a rock that breaks your windshield is he responsible? If course not. If you don't want a broken windshield then don't follow closely. That's the moral of that story.

Everyone wants something for free these days and can't take responsibility for their own actions... </div></div>

Nice antidote but it's not the way our system works. Your analogy is false for many reasons, the most obvious of which is that the F150 isn't actively hauling rocks, if it were, the driver would be just as liable as the OP's rock hauling dump trucks. Dump trucks, regardless of the signs they put on the back are liable for the stuff that comes out of them. If a simple sign could negate your liability's people would have signs all over their cars/trucks. </div></div>

I never said the sign is what made them not liable because signs are pointless. Like I already said, next time I get a cracked windshield I will just go wait by Pioneer landscaping for them to roll a delivery truck and then I will follow him, get the plate number and get a free windshield. That's the way it works now, right?

 

[High Binder]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shot In The Dark</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The responsibility lies with you for following too closely. Just like the responsibility for a broken window to a homeowner on a golf course is the home owner's for building a house on a golf course. If a Ford F150 driven by a person throws up a rock that breaks your windshield is he responsible? If course not. If you don't want a broken windshield then don't follow closely. That's the moral of that story.

Everyone wants something for free these days and can't take responsibility for their own actions... </div></div>

Nice antidote but it's not the way our system works. Your analogy is false for many reasons, the most obvious of which is that the F150 isn't actively hauling rocks, if it were, the driver would be just as liable as the OP's rock hauling dump trucks. Dump trucks, regardless of the signs they put on the back are liable for the stuff that comes out of them. If a simple sign could negate your liability's people would have signs all over their cars/trucks. </div></div>

I never said the sign is what made them not liable because signs are pointless. Like I already said, next time I get a cracked windshield I will just go wait by Pioneer landscaping for them to roll a delivery truck and then I will follow him, get the plate number and get a free windshield. That's the way it works now, right? </div></div>

LOL. Well, no because the burden of proof is on you so you actually have to have your shit together pretty well to make such a claim. However, in the case of a $200 windshield I doubt their insurance would even bother making you go to court as it would cost them more to fight it. I'm not saying that it's right or wrong, or if I like it or not I'm simply stating the way it works.

 

[Jer]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shot In The Dark</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shot In The Dark</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The responsibility lies with you for following too closely. Just like the responsibility for a broken window to a homeowner on a golf course is the home owner's for building a house on a golf course. If a Ford F150 driven by a person throws up a rock that breaks your windshield is he responsible? If course not. If you don't want a broken windshield then don't follow closely. That's the moral of that story.

Everyone wants something for free these days and can't take responsibility for their own actions... </div></div>

Nice antidote but it's not the way our system works. Your analogy is false for many reasons, the most obvious of which is that the F150 isn't actively hauling rocks, if it were, the driver would be just as liable as the OP's rock hauling dump trucks. Dump trucks, regardless of the signs they put on the back are liable for the stuff that comes out of them. If a simple sign could negate your liability's people would have signs all over their cars/trucks. </div></div>

I never said the sign is what made them not liable because signs are pointless. Like I already said, next time I get a cracked windshield I will just go wait by Pioneer landscaping for them to roll a delivery truck and then I will follow him, get the plate number and get a free windshield. That's the way it works now, right? </div></div>

LOL. Well, no because the burden of proof is on you so you actually have to have your shit together pretty well to make such a claim. However, in the case of a $200 windshield I doubt their insurance would even bother making you go to court as it would cost them more to fight it. I'm not saying that it's right or wrong, or if I like it or not I'm simply stating the way it works. </div></div>

One of my A6's took a $500+ windshield. My new A4 has rain sensors and all sorts of crap in it so I don't even want to think what that one would cost. I digress. I think you would have a hard time proving this and if it went to court I think the magistrate would tell you that you were following too closely and that was the risk you took in doing so. Otherwise EVERYONE could get free windshields. To me anyway it's simple, if you don't want your windshield broken don't follow a truck closely. It's not like they're hard to spot.

 

[MEAT4272]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

Jer,
Let me get this straight, you feel if a stone comes up out of a hauling truck and breaks someone's windshield it's not the fault of the trucking company, but then you go on and say how you will make a fraudulent claim against an innocent trucking company in the event you get a broken windshield.
What are you saying?

 

[Bob Shaver]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

In Illinois if the truck spills any part of their load and it breaks your windshild, it's the truckers fault.

If the truck kicks up a rock that's already on the road then the trucker doesn't bare any responsibility.

 

[Jer]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MEAT4272</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is wonderful information. Next time I get a broken windshield I will simply wait until I find a truck, follow it and then get the plate number and get a free windshield out of them. Since that's the way it works these days. </div></div>

Jer,
Let me get this straight, you feel if a stone comes up out of a hauling truck and breaks someone's windshield it's not the fault of the trucking company, but then you go on and say how you will make a fraudulent claim against an innocent trucking company in the event you get a broken windshield.
What are you saying? </div></div>

That's the WHOLE point of my posts. I'm not saying <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">I</span></span></span> would do this. What I'm saying is what's to stop ANYONE from doing this? Simple. The driver following is responsible. Just like if you rear-end ANYONE it's your fault because it's YOUR responsibility to keep a safe following distance. Wouldn't this also apply to trucks hauling something or any other vehicle that could throw debris for that matter?

 

[Jer]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: El Shavewa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In Illinois if the truck spills any part of their load and it breaks your windshild, it's the truckers fault.

If the truck kicks up a rock that's already on the road then the trucker doesn't bare any responsibility. </div></div>

So here's my point... how do you know the difference? What 'proof' can you produce of either of these? In either case wouldn't it be easier to just not follow as close?

 

[Jer]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MEAT4272</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From a motorcyclist's point of veiw that is bullshit. I feel they own everyone one of those stones from their load and should be held accountable for any and all damage the lose stones do. </div></div>

I also am a motorcyclist and a pebble is the least of your concerns. If something looks dangerous (truck hauling a load for instance) I tend to give them a wider berth for MY personal safety. Why wouldn't it be common sense to do the same for your car or trucks safety if that was your concern?

 

[High Binder]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

To me anyway it's simple, if you don't want your windshield broken don't follow a truck closely. It's not like they're hard to spot. </div></div>

Jer, I agree with you on a personal level but the system doesn't work that way. We both know that living where we do (I'm 10 mins north of Jer for those who don't know the area) that we're going to go through windshields every 2 years anyway (at least that's been my experience what with thermo-cracking). However, the math on a normal ping-pong ball sized rock from a truck traveling on I-25 or 287 going 75mph shows that it could easily bounce/skid for well over 200'

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

If I get hit by something that came off a vehicle I was following, and I was not able to avoid it, I figure I was not in sufficient control of my vehicle to prevent the damage. A key part of being in control is to establish a safe distance behind the preceding vehicle, and to take into account the very logical and easily understood fact that a prudent driver allows extra distance behind a dump truck.

Let me put this a different way, either pass that sucker or keep well back; or better yet let somebody else get between you.

It's called defensive driving, and it begins with taking deliberate action to ensure you never need to address such questions about liability and responsibility.

Liability and responsibility are weasel terms employed by lawyers to camoflage their clients' stupidity.

Can you dig it?

Greg

 

[Queequeg]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

Greg,

In a management science class I learned of some interesting metrics used to measure things most people would be hard pressed to guess at. Among them were things like driving patterns and the interesting coincedence of what happens on the interstate when vehicles try to maintain a safe distance.

Perhaps you too have witnessed the interesting (and deeply infuriating) tendency for other drivers to swerve in between oneself and the vehicle one is trying to maintain distance from. Following the 1 car length for each ten miles per hour; the space between vehicles on the highway should be 60-80 feet for safe distance.

Unfortunately, when attempting to maintain that distance, the encouragement provided to asswipe drivers to swoop in front of you, the safe driver, puts you in greater danger than if you maintain a closer (prohibitive) proximity to the vehicle in front of you.

Just an observation!

While impractical and difficult to collect on, the driver of the vehicle distributing debris is liable for the damage he causes.

 

[Cinch]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

I agree on increasing your following distance, however oncoming trucks and trucks passing you are something you have no control over.

 

[jcwarrior87]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

Jer I get your point about being able to prove if the rock came from the truck or the ground, I can see how that is too hard to really prove. But what if the object is something you can prove, Like say an apple out of a bin, or a 2" rigid coupling that comes loose off a piece of pipe, do you believe that the driver is not responsible for these items?

I personally if a rock hits my wind shield, will just have my insurance pay for it, I don't want to put of with trying to have them pay for it. But I still think it is there responsibility for making sure that what ever they are carrying does no harm to any one or any thing. I think there is some responsibility with both people, I know when I am around truck I am a little more careful, just encase there load comes loose, but also it is there responsibility to make sure it doesn't.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

All these points are undeniably true.

Fact is, there is <span style="font-style: italic">no</span> such thing as paranoia. The stupid bastards <span style="font-style: italic">are</span> out to get us all, and there's only so much precaution one can employ.

In the end, even the best strategy never survives beyond the sound of the first shot.

Keep your insurance paid up.

Greg

 

[jr81452]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shot In The Dark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If a simple sign could negate your liability's people would have signs all over their cars/trucks, i.e. "This car randomly hits pedestrians on the sidewalk, stay back 200'" </div></div>

That is hilarious! I'm going to put some signs on my car, "all collisions involving this vehicle are the fault of the motorist/pedestrian who was hit by it".

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Following the 1 car length for each ten miles per hour; the space between vehicles on the highway should be 60-80 feet for safe distance.

Unfortunately, when attempting to maintain that distance, the encouragement provided to asswipe drivers to swoop in front of you, the safe driver, puts you in greater danger than if you maintain a closer (prohibitive) proximity to the vehicle in front of you.
</div></div>

Could you imagine how backed up our roads would be if everyone followed the defensive driving recommendations? You would need 10 feet of space when in a parking lot, 40 feet on a commercial thoroughfare. Maybe if you lived in BFE, but in a major city like Tampa? Never happen.

 

[ZLBubba]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

For me, I'd just appreciate it if people hauling the loads of rock did a better job securing it. Is that really too much to ask? Buy a load cover that works, and replace a worn out cover with a new one. I'm sure the truck drivers get just as pissed when they get off work, are following a dump truck home, and a piece of gravel chips their windshield. Do unto other as you'd have done unto you, right?

 

[lostangel]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rookie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In Texas, the truck is responsible. </div></div>

AS a police officer, you should know. But, also you should know, our insurance company has never paid one of those claims.

 

[brutus1776]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

i wonder if we put a sign on a shooting lane that says...'we are not responsible for murders caused by stray rounds...' if this could be our 'get out of jail free card?'

geez.

you damage someone elses property, you are liable as far as im concerned.

 

[lostangel]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

Now, our situation is a little different. We haul oilfield equipment, not rock or gravel or anything. We ARE responsible if there is gravel, etc on the equipment. Now if the truck throws up a rock off the road, we are not. To my understanding anyway.

Patrick

 

[ArcticLight]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

In this state if a vehicle has a "Loose load" they are responsible.

They can claim they are not but if you have a witness or videocamera they're gonna pay.

My insurance would probably just write it off and give me a new windshield, but depends...

If you have something on your vehicle and it falls off, you are responsible. Problem is, the dumptruck company has attorney's.

Best just to get your insurance to deal with it.

I have Pemco, they are awesome - the last and ONLY relationship based company - they pay 100%.

 

[Switchblade]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

Scenario:
The truck with a huge sign on back is roling down the road at 45mph. The posted speed limit is 55mph. The truck's load of gravel is obviously not secured well. As a driver, you give a wide berth, but come to a passing zone. As you move forward to pass the truck, a few pieces of gravel fall off the tail of the truck, bounce on the asphalt and up to your windshield cracking it.
Regardless of what that truck has posted on it, the load was not secure. You made the judgement to hold safe distance until you could pass safely. The fact the load of that truck was not properly secured caused the problem.

The Issue:
Should the truck and parent company be liable for the cracked windshield?

Premises Supporting:
1: The load was not properly secured as dictated by law
2: The vehicle driver acted safely trying to maintain a safe distance and passed safely
3: Since the trucking company/truck driver broke the law, they are liable to pay for the broken windshield
4: The posted sign on the truck is not a legal regulating sign, and therefore has no bearing on the issue

I am of the thought that any Counter premises will be rife with propaganda which makes them invalid, unsound, and therefore maintain that I am indeed correct in stating that my premises are uncounterable.

There, I have laid out my most perfect argument as stated. I of course made the situation as biased toward my position as possible

 

[Jer]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I get hit by something that came off a vehicle I was following, and I was not able to avoid it, I figure I was not in sufficient control of my vehicle to prevent the damage. A key part of being in control is to establish a safe distance behind the preceding vehicle, and to take into account the very logical and easily understood fact that a prudent driver allows extra distance behind a dump truck.

Let me put this a different way, either pass that sucker or keep well back; or better yet let somebody else get between you.

It's called defensive driving, and it begins with taking deliberate action to ensure you never need to address such questions about liability and responsibility.

Liability and responsibility are weasel terms employed by lawyers to camoflage their clients' stupidity.

Can you dig it?

Greg </div></div>

Thank you. I was beginning to think I was the only voice of reason in this thread.

 

[Jer]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Switchblade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Scenario:
The truck with a huge sign on back is roling down the road at 45mph. The posted speed limit is 55mph. The truck's load of gravel is obviously not secured well. As a driver, you give a wide berth, but come to a passing zone. As you move forward to pass the truck, a few pieces of gravel fall off the tail of the truck, bounce on the asphalt and up to your windshield cracking it.
Regardless of what that truck has posted on it, the load was not secure. You made the judgement to hold safe distance <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="text-decoration: underline">until</span></span></span> you could pass safely. The fact the load of that truck was not properly secured caused the problem.

The Issue:
Should the truck and parent company be liable for the cracked windshield?

Premises Supporting:
1: The load was not properly secured as dictated by law
2: The vehicle driver acted safely trying to maintain a safe distance and passed safely
3: Since the trucking company/truck driver broke the law, they are liable to pay for the broken windshield
4: The posted sign on the truck is not a legal regulating sign, and therefore has no bearing on the issue

I am of the thought that any Counter premises will be rife with propaganda which makes them invalid, unsound, and therefore maintain that I am indeed correct in stating that my premises are uncounterable.

There, I have laid out my most perfect argument as stated. I of course made the situation as biased toward my position as possible

</div></div>

Actually, that one word above blows the whole hypothesis out of the water. The correct answer is if you received a rock chip in your windshield then it clearly was NOT safe to approach the truck to pass, was it? At some point you had to think 'Well, I could catch a rock but I'm going to close up this distance now to prepare to pass.' and that little thought is one you should listen to. It's telling you that you can either wait until there's enough room to safely pass from your current distance or not pass at all. It should have told you not to pass at all as that also has it's inherent dangers. The fact of the matter is that we ALL take calculated risks when we drive and some are greater than others. We should all be lucky that the largest calculated risk we are forced to take is how far to follow a gravel truck. If YOU choose to take a risk I don't see why someone else should have to pay when others would have chosen to not follow so closely.

 

[ZLBubba]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

So let me get this straight. I see a fat guy, chowing down on a hot dog, standing at the back of the elevator I want to ride to the top floor for a business meeting. The fat dude is certainly a fart hazard, but the likelihood is small that the urge to unleash while I'm riding the elevator with him is small. The meeting is about to start anyway, and I feel like he should have some sense of decency and not break wind in the elevator. I hop onto the elevator and hit "17".

Somewhere between floors 5 and 6, Bubba's bubble guts gets the better of him, and he shares with me and the rest of the elevator the result last night's burrito buffet binge-o-rama. In disgust I look his way only to find the back of his t-shirt says, "Not responsible for a gas leaks." Alas, the fault is mine for being within proximity of this obvious, and admitted, gas hazard. I guess I had it coming for riding in an elevator with a fat dude.

Ah, I see the errors of my ways!

 

[Bryan27]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

I don't so much care when a rock falls off a truck and breaks my windshield, that's what I pay insurance for and they have always been easy to deal with when it comes to windshield replacements. What I do have a problem with is when I see a dump truck hauling gravel and the driver has done nothing to secure the load. Chunks of gravel just sitting on the edge of the bed ready to fall off that would have taken the driver or the loader less than a minute to knock off if they'd just walk around their truck with a broomstick before getting on the road. And people that load a pile of gravel in the middle of a flatbed landscaping trailer that has no sides to it piss me off too, they know good and well all that rock isn't staying on the trailer as they go bouncing down the interstate.

I work for the railroad and we ARE responsible for the security of every load in our trains. If a lump of coal goes flying out of the top of one of the hoppers and strikes a vehicle at a road crossing, it's because we didn't have the load secure. If a metal tiedown band breaks on a load of lumber, whistling through the air and cuts a pedestrian, it's because we didn't remove the broken band and we are responsible. If the FRA man is watching our train going down the track and sees a load of scrap metal with peices hanging over the side of the gondola, he will order us to stop our train imediately and have us either fix the load or have it set out. When we pull cars from customers it is our responsibility to ensure the load is secure first, if not we are to refuse the load until the customer fixes the problem. From a public safety standpoint I have no problem at all with any of this. We choose to be in the railroad business just like the dump truck driver chooses to be in that business and we both should accept responsibility for doing what it takes to safely move our freight and the responsibility for the damage our freight causes when we fail to secure it.

 

[jr81452]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually, that one word above blows the whole hypothesis out of the water. The correct answer is if you received a rock chip in your windshield then it clearly was NOT safe to approach the truck to pass, was it? At some point you had to think 'Well, I could catch a rock but I'm going to close up this distance now to prepare to pass.' and that little thought is one you should listen to. It's telling you that you can either wait until there's enough room to safely pass from your current distance or not pass at all. It should have told you not to pass at all as that also has it's inherent dangers. The fact of the matter is that we ALL take calculated risks when we drive and some are greater than others. We should all be lucky that the largest calculated risk we are forced to take is how far to follow a gravel truck. If YOU choose to take a risk I don't see why someone else should have to pay when others would have chosen to not follow so closely. </div></div>

That is absolute horse shit. Using that logic, nobody would be held responsible for anything.
"You got shot while walking into a convenience store? Well take responsibility for yourself. You saw that clearly shifty man walking into the store. You should have waited until he left!"

The fact is, a trucking company is in the BUSINESS of hauling things. They have a DUTY and legal obligation to ensure that they conduct business within the confines of all regulations applicable to their industry. That includes properly securing their loads; which is mandated by the DOT. Contrarily, a motorist operating a passenger vehicle has no duty or obligation to give said trucks a wide birth. If the trucking company is operating by regulations, then there is no need for such considerations.

Your argument is absurd beyond reason. Defensive driving is a choice, not an obligation. Securing your load is a mandated regulation, not an option. You are insisting that an individual take personal responsibility for the negligent (criminal, if the damage is to a person) actions of a commercial enterprise. I suppose you would argue that if someone doesn't want to drink toxic water, they shouldn't move within 5 miles of a chemical plant?

Taking responsibility for your own choices is one thing; what you are suggesting is tantamount to stating that we should go out of our way to aid and abet those who would flout the law.

I for one, am sick of those who advocate that you should roll over and accept the laziness of others. Accepting something that is clearly wrong, makes you part of the problem. Next time you see a truck dropping gravel on the road in front of you, report them to the appropriate authorities.

 

[Lt. Arclight]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

Here in Northern NJ, YOU CAN'T stay away from them,traffic is too heavy. I live by a large rock quarry-adjacent to the Picatinny Arsenal.They run tri-axle dump trucks and couldn't give a fuck about anything.Sometimes you get in a position in traffic and while you are trying to get out of the way you get blasted. They think the sign for RT.80 is the minimum speed! The road is littered with tire carcasses- excessive speed and excessive weight.

State Farm:I pay $100 and they send the guy to your house and replace the glass with an OEM part. TRY calling the NJ State Police to get them to take a report-all you'll get is aggravated.

True,defensive driving is not only a choice-but a matter of survival. Don't tell me you can avoid it. Come and drive on the highways around NYC.

 

[Queequeg]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

Not to mention the inevitable rust that will follow the replacement of said windshield as spermo-the-glass-guy scrapes every molecule of paint off the surface of the vehicle as he removes the damaged windshield, doesn't apply any new paint and poorly seats the new windshield on bare metal that will begin to corode like a mofo the second he drives away.

Seriously, to paraphrase Dana Carvey who was mocking the late Johnny Cochrane, why are we even wasting a second debating this?

Improperly secured cargo flying off a vehicle and damaging another is the definition of "negligence per se". Perhaps "Res ipsa loquitor" applies here as well. In no case is it interpreted otherwise until the trucking lobbyists buy off key legislators and regulatory stooges to look the other way.

Neverhtheless, just because these legislators, regulators and lobbyists (and Jer {who has a great Avatar!

}) say the sky is green, hardly makes it so unless one is so gullible as to continue to believe in Santa and the mythical G-Spot well beyond the age when it can honestly be be regarded as cute.

 

[Double-edged]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

Having been in management and ownership situations for quarries in several states, I can state quantitatively that getting the company doing the hauling to pay is pretty hard if they really don't want to do so. Most will do so if they feel that the person doing the complaining has a valid complaint but if they don't, it's a matter for small claims court and proving that a particular cracked windshield was caused by a rock from a particular truck is pretty hard. In 20+ years of this, I've never heard of a company paying unless they actually felt responsible but YMMV...I've only had experience with this in about 1/3 of the states of the US.

 

[Queequeg]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

Double edged I don't direct this to you but;

No great surprise to see yet another ass-holish industry practice, and their people, damage other people's property and yet are reluctant to make them whole unless caught.

If they get away with it, why then they did nothing wrong!

What is particularly galling about it is the additional horseshit used to obfuscate their negligence or pretending they are blameless and thus correct in their unwillingness to pay for the damage that is in plain sight to all those whose heads aren't shoulders deep in their own asses. The impracticality of collecting from the offender is a convenient dodge, no doubt contributing to the blatant laziness and disregard displayed by the truckers who do this.

It's not at all an uncommon trait among the lazy.

See; it isn't just shit bag bankers who don't give a shit about anyone but themselves!



I'll remember the following from this thread:
1) It isn't remotely accidental and,
2) the people responsible are not my friends.

What follows from that won't be my fault.

 

[Double-edged]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Double edged I don't direct this to you but;

No great surprise to see yet another ass-holish industry practice, and their people, damage other people's property and yet are reluctant to make them whole unless caught.

If they get away with it, why then they did nothing wrong!

What is particularly galling about it is the additional horseshit used to obfuscate their negligence or pretending they are blameless and thus correct in their unwillingness to pay for the damage that is in plain sight to all those whose heads aren't shoulders deep in their own asses. The impracticality of collecting from the offender is a convenient dodge, no doubt contributing to the blatant laziness and disregard displayed by the truckers who do this.

It's not at all an uncommon trait among the lazy.

See; it isn't just shit bag bankers who don't give a shit about anyone but themselves!



I'll remember the following from this thread:
1) It isn't remotely accidental and,
2) the people responsible are not my friends.

What follows from that won't be my fault.

</div></div>

It's common to deny the claims because people in general would be getting free windshields all the time just by complaining. One bad apple spoils the bunch. If people in general were trustworthy, the situation wouldn't exist. It's not a bad practice on the part of the company. It's a necessary business practice. Unfortunately, personal integrity plays a role and most people will readily lie to get something for free.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jr81452</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

That is absolute horse shit. Using that logic, nobody would be held responsible for anything.
"You got shot while walking into a convenience store? Well take responsibility for yourself. You saw that clearly shifty man walking into the store. You should have waited until he left!" </div></div>

No, you should have had enough situational awareness to see his potential as a threat and if/when he became an active threat you would have already placed cover between you and he an could better reduce the threat that he now is with your own weapon, as you train to do because you understand the moral responsibility of owning weapons.......


Most trucking companies try like hell to maintain control of their loads, the material they haul is their business. Tarping loads is done more (when the loads are dirt or aggregate materials) is done to keep particulate dust from being generated for health and air quality reasons.
Rocks that crack your windshield are more often from mud or material debris that is coming off the truck's undercarriage or our of the tires.
If the gates aren't keeping the material in, they need to be fixed.

If you see a truck with gravel coming out of the back, don't try to get so close that you can tell what color the rocks are, fall back. And if some yahoo has to zip between you and the truck, laugh while he gets his widshield cracked (hell, I'd probably try to box them in behind the truck-I've been known to respond to jerks with my own brand of jerkiness!).........

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

Dumptrucks suck, but as a scooter jockey my pet peeve is timber bedded flatbeds!!!!!

 

[jr81452]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jr81452</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

That is absolute horse shit. Using that logic, nobody would be held responsible for anything.
"You got shot while walking into a convenience store? Well take responsibility for yourself. You saw that clearly shifty man walking into the store. You should have waited until he left!" </div></div>

No, you should have had enough situational awareness to see his potential as a threat and if/when he became an active threat you would have already placed cover between you and he an could better reduce the threat that he now is with your own weapon, as you train to do because you understand the moral responsibility of owning weapons.......
</div></div>

I was arguing on behalf of all people who would find themselves in this situation, not myself or CCers specifically. Having acted to avoid similar situations in the past, I comprehend your point; which does not make a person who catches a bullet in said circumstance, responsible for having been shot. I've never had my windshield cracked by a truck drivers negligence either, though there have been close calls.

QQ,
Having done my own fastidious studies, I can say the existence of the G-spot is an unequivocal fact. I agree with all other points in your post.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

Two things.

I learned to drive in Northern NJ, and lived there for another thirty-some years before I moved up here to the Great White North. My drivings skills have since deteriorated so badly that when I returned to visit, I came within an inch of getting killed three or four times before I got from PA to the Tappan Zee Bridge on RT80.

I had my windshield replaced while I was in Orlando FL earlier this year. I can't be certain, but the tag above the guy's shirt pocket <span style="font-style: italic">might</span> have read 'Spermo'...

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Dump trucks and cracked windshields

I was just typing my comment to add to the humour and challenge thought processes......I think there are two important basic concepts at hand here: either you are the type that believes cops, laws, and civil entities are here to protect you or you realize that they are all reactionary in nature once an event has occurred.
Doing one's best to make the event not happen is the individual's responsibility. If the event begins, the individual's actions (not reactions) guide the course of events.


It really cracks me up that people spend time on the internet arguing about issues that are governed by state and local laws and regulations.
FMCC (Federal regs) are clear about hauling for safety, and the guy driving the truck that anyone alleges chipped their windshield by law should have a copy of that in his truck. Now how those regulations are enforced along with local/state ordinances are a function of said local LE, legislation and highway departments, they can tell you about that.

If one is really interestd in how to hold a trucking company's feet to the fire, they should call their local DOT rather than post on online shooting forums.
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