FBI Sniper Rifles

sirhrmechanic

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So got a note back from USO... the are not sure what the heck it is... serial number puts it in 2002 timeframe, but they never made a 6 - 30... Only 8 - 30. And N - 40.

They are looking more and deeper.

Interesting... very interesting.

As for the FBI Connection... I was pretty sure it was tenuous. And probably some kind of scope urban legend. But, hey, one never knows. And it would make sense to use in ballistics research. But the idea that they bought 10 percent of production and used the (bizarre -- lets face it... that's the right word) SN9 on any field rifles is pretty out there.

But part of what is fun about this hobby is finding unicorns, prototypes and strange things! And this seems to be one of them.

BTW, Second putting this whole thread as Sticky. So much amazing info here. I asked that one of the mods please make this sticky.

Cheers,

Sirhr
 

sharfshutz762

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I would wait until Skunk comes back with better info from the original source. This new owner group doesnt know a lot about USO history and WTF is up with the smurf colored logo now..remember the badass USO t-shirts back in the day? I should have hoarded the hell out of them.
 
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sirhrmechanic

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I would wait until Skunk comes back with better info from the original source. This new owner group doesnt know a lot about USO history and WTF is up with the smurf colored logo now..remember the badass USO t-shirts back in the day? I should have hoarded the hell out of them.
Yeah, Doc Mullins here in SH was their East Coast rep and a Major contributor to SH. A great guy and I had the privilege of going to some of his classes. He handed me my M/O tab at SWAT school. He is why I am a USO snob to this day.

JBWIII likely will know, so looking forward
To skunk’s research.

There was a time when they would make anything a client requested. So this may be one of those unicorns.

Sirhr
 
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sandwarrior

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I would wait until Skunk comes back with better info from the original source. This new owner group doesnt know a lot about USO history and WTF is up with the smurf colored logo now..remember the badass USO t-shirts back in the day? I should have hoarded the hell out of them.
I would wait until Skunk comes back with better info from the original source. This new owner group doesnt know a lot about USO history and WTF is up with the smurf colored logo now..remember the badass USO t-shirts back in the day? I should have hoarded the hell out of them.
I got a t-shirt with my ST-10. It disappeared somewhere... :cautious: I still have my boonie hat.
 

sandwarrior

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Yeah, Doc Mullins here in SH was their East Coast rep and a Major contributor to SH. A great guy and I had the privilege of going to some of his classes. He handed me my M/O tab at SWAT school. He is why I am a USO snob to this day.

JBWIII likely will know, so looking forward
To skunk’s research.

There was a time when they would make anything a client requested. So this may be one of those unicorns.

Sirhr
I became a USO snob in 2006 when one of our pilots, a fellow shooter, showed up at the range with one. At that time I was rockin' a Leupold 6.5-20 and was doing well. I took one look through the glass and knew I had to have one. In retrospect, I wish I had bought the 5.5-22. But, then again, that kind of defeated the purpose of why I built my scope the way I did.
 

Toftwo

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Yeah, Doc Mullins here in SH was their East Coast rep and a Major contributor to SH. A great guy and I had the privilege of going to some of his classes. He handed me my M/O tab at SWAT school. He is why I am a USO snob to this day.

JBWIII likely will know, so looking forward
To skunk’s research.

There was a time when they would make anything a client requested. So this may be one of those unicorns.

Sirhr
Just curious, what's an M/O tab?
 

Skunk

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Ok, Guys. I asked JBW3 if any SN9’s were ever sold to the FBI. He said, “maybe one.” He didn’t respond with any more detail. So, maybe Sirhr has the One and Only!
 

Toftwo

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Ok, Guys. I asked JBW3 if any SN9’s were ever sold to the FBI. He said, “maybe one.” He didn’t respond with any more detail. So, maybe Sirhr has the One and Only!
Sounds legit to me!
 

sirhrmechanic

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Ok, Guys. I asked JBW3 if any SN9’s were ever sold to the FBI. He said, “maybe one.” He didn’t respond with any more detail. So, maybe Sirhr has the One and Only!
Thanks, Skunk!

I doubt it. The post I saw was on a questionable ARF-com like site and the poster was about as reliable as Northern Maine Taco's. So I suspected the story was Bovine Scatology.

BTW, say "Hi" to JBWIII! We talked about a scope polarizer c 2010... Made windshield shots far easier. Never became a product. But he was interested at the time and we had some good conversations. Hell of a great guy!

My guess is that the scope I got was a special order or some kind of unicorn. That USO was famous for. If you wanted it, they would build it. If they experimented and the scope was not garbage... they would list it and sell it. So who knows what came out the shipping dock side of the building.

Thanks for checking, Skunk! It's just another part of the cool factor of this thread!

Cheers and everyone... have a Happy Thanksgiving!

Sirhr
 

Calfed

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The FBI's first sniper rifle...the Springfield NRA Sporter rifle...

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...05e40329bf/1426854357456/33+21+shotguns+2.pdf

1935 FBI rifle training/quals with the Springfield Sporter rifle and Colt Monitor rifle.

9pQyQUz.jpg



(Credit to Larry Wack (deceased) for his work combing through FBI historical records)
 
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sandwarrior

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Colt R-80 Monitor rifle, like the BAR, but with a pistol grip, short barrel (18.5") and "yuge" Lyman compensator. Colt only made a few and almost all of them were delivered to the FBI.

Added: 😁 😁 Thanks for that post, Calfed awesome to know those variations existed.

Just by looking at the rifles/guns from a distance, I clearly thought BAR. I never knew those had an "improvement" brought about. 125 rifles total. Wow! I'm still in the article reading about the improvements. But, so far, they aren't really clear about what changes got made. And, how good those changes were:
 
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Calfed

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Added: 😁 😁 Thanks for that post, Calfed awesome to know those variations existed.

Just by looking at the rifles/guns from a distance, I clearly thought BAR. I never knew those had an "improvement" brought about. 125 rifles total. Wow! I'm still in the article reading about the improvements. But, so far, they aren't really clear about what changes got made. And, how good those changes were:

Sweden made a version of the BAR with a pistol grip and chambered in 6.5 x 55.

5Q10n0L.jpg


YeXIGpP.jpg
 

bildoe308

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Awesome thread! I found these a few years ago and purchased them for a rainy day. Looks like I have some direction now...LOL. One stock is for a Remington 700 and the other two stocks are for Winchester’s. It looks like the bolt spacing for the receivers are different for the Winchester stocks.
 

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bildoe308

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Those look like excellent replicas or someone took a big chance with their career for a few bucks.
Yup, I don’t ask. It’s amazing how dumpster diving pays off for some guys. Now I need to build some clones with my replicas.
 

Toftwo

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Those look like excellent replicas or someone took a big chance with their career for a few bucks.
I think J husky said back in the day, he ordered straight from McMillan, if someone bought the stock from the factory, would they still be an excellent replica or just a McMillan Winchester Model 70 stock in Urban Camo?
 

pmclaine

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    Colt R-80 Monitor rifle, like the BAR, but with a pistol grip, short barrel (18.5") and "yuge" Lyman compensator. Colt only made a few and almost all of them were delivered to the FBI.


    Charles Street Jail, Charles Street, Boston (now a high end Hotel/restaurant) bought some for the Gallery guard.

    Authorities didnt fuck around than.

    One of them is in the reference room at my job.
     

    pmclaine

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    The FBI's first sniper rifle...the Springfield NRA Sporter rifle...

    https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...05e40329bf/1426854357456/33+21+shotguns+2.pdf

    1935 FBI rifle training/quals with the Springfield Sporter rifle and Colt Monitor rifle.

    9pQyQUz.jpg



    (Credit to Larry Wack (deceased) for his work combing through FBI historical records)


    Here is the guy that had a lot to do with creating "Marksmen" in the FBI and the Marine Corps....

    1607518689456.png

    Guessing this is a Registered Magnum......looks like he bobbed the hammer....

    1607518760567.png
     
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    Sierra770

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    I think J husky said back in the day, he ordered straight from McMillan, if someone bought the stock from the factory, would they still be an excellent replica or just a McMillan Winchester Model 70 stock in Urban Camo?
    Excellent Point.
    Yes. If purchased from McMillan it would be a Stock in Urban Camo

    If purchased from McMillian and someone were astute enough to add Quantico Serial numbers and markings. They would be an excellent replica.

    If purchased off market,used, marked with FBI Quantico Serial numbers, then they were govt property.

    I hope that clears up my previous post.
     

    Toftwo

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    Excellent Point.
    Yes. If purchased from McMillan it would be a Stock in Urban Camo

    If purchased from McMillian and someone were astute enough to add Quantico Serial numbers and markings. They would be an excellent replica.

    If purchased off market, used, marked with FBI Quantico Serial numbers, then they were govt property.

    I hope that clears up my previous post.

    That's the beauty of these builds, they are a pretty straight forward rifle, the markings are .308 or .308 DOUG on the barrel and the last 4 of the SN in the barrel channel, but I think just about every rifle built by the Military in a McMillan had the SN in marked in the barrel channel. No clip-slotting other than a Lug slot on the 700 version for the Unertl Mount. Won't take your builder long to do, lol and probably a bit cheaper!
     
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    Plinker 73

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    Loved this thread . So much information, fascinating subject. I was the lucky winner if the MK 13 MOd 13 mil spec rifle raffled by the USMC Scout Sniper Assn. if any one has any questions or wants any information about this rifle I will be happy to provide any thing I can.
    Thank
    Rad
     

    Sierra770

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    I had the chance to test drive one of the FBI 10mm UMPs a couple of years ago and was highly impressed how controllable it was on the 2 shot setting. Much more than my 9mm.
    I’m glad you had a chance to shoot one. Just to point out those were 10mm MP5s and not the H&K UMPs. The FBI never fielded the UMP.
     

    sirhrmechanic

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    What broke on them?
    There was a high impulse and low impulse locking piece that in various iterations. The low impulse was used for a “light” 10 mm load.

    Also frames cracked with heavy use.

    I think they also had fluted chambers or similar to deal with extraction challenges.

    Hard hitting smg’s though! I had an issued .40 for a while and it was fun. New chief took away our best toys. Oh well.

    Sirhr
     
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    sandwarrior

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    There was a high impulse and low impulse locking piece that in various iterations. The low impulse was used for a “light” 10 mm load.

    Also frames cracked with heavy use.

    I think they also had fluted chambers or similar to deal with extraction challenges.

    Hard hitting smg’s though! I had an issued .40 for a while and it was fun. New chief took away our best toys. Oh well.

    Sirhr
    Thanks for that.

    I trained with the MP5 in 9mm some. But, knew those who used it a lot. And, from them, it sounded pretty bullet proof. Pun intended, but for the purpose of this thread, the SMG was very resilient. To the tune of four to five shooters a day using it and pushing 20K+ rounds through it in a couple of days without breakages.

    From what I had understood the whole firing system was pretty much the same. I never even saw a .40 or 10mm version, though.
     

    Plinker 73

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    I quit counting how many rounds went through my 9 mm MP 5 at. 75k. It was a used PD gun when I got it. The only thing I ever replaced was a couple of extractor springs. It was still accaurate when I sold it. I know accuracy is relevant with a smg .
     

    opeagle

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    What broke on them?

    I can only speak of the 40’s S&W that were issued at the time.

    Roller issues, frame, stop pins. Those are what I recall stopped some of the guns.

    Now they were well used before I got there, but the existing staff was unfortunately wary of them. So many 9mm guns that ran forever, the 40 just beat them up.

    I have no first hand knowledge, but didn’t the Bureau pull the 10mm ones from the field over similar issues?
     

    Skunk

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    The FBI, about 10yrs ago, started transitioning back to the M4 "Colt Pattern Carbine" across the board. And, 10mm ammo is/was expensive and PFI's no longer wanted to spend money on it when they could get more 5.56mm for the same cost. The MP5's were fun, but that was about it....IMO.
     

    Calfed

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    The FBI, about 10yrs ago, started transitioning back to the M4 "Colt Pattern Carbine" across the board. And, 10mm ammo is/was expensive and PFI's no longer wanted to spend money on it when they could get more 5.56mm for the same cost. The MP5's were fun, but that was about it....IMO.

    The issue of penetrating intermediate barriers, bad guys wearing ballistic vests, etc also played a role in the decision to go with a 5.56 based platform vs a pistol caliber long gun.
     

    Calfed

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    It was the right choice. Don’t forget the 14.5 inch was wedged in there to the current evolution.
    The street agents got a semi Rock River Arms 16" equipped with an EOTech. Back when the EOTech was still cool.
     
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    Sierra770

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    Speaking of correct choices. Although during the initial rollout, many questioned the H-S Precision platform. And while it has had a couple of bumps along the way, it has been a very good platform.
     

    Toftwo

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    On the Colt Pattern Carbine, did the FBI ever issue Surefire Handguards the picatinny railed ones or the ones with the built in lights. LOL I may have to change the name of my post to "FBI Weapons"