The end of Dec to Jan 13th,ATF were finalizing the eForm process, so silencer shop could “ready to certify it.” There is not gap in being ready to certify now.
Suppressors Form 4 wait time
OSS 762 Ti - Paper 4, trust
Purchased 4/5/21
Cashed 4/28/21
Approved 4/20/22 (358 days)
Dealer called with stamp 5/4/22
Did not get batched with one other with a sept cash date. Those paper batches gave me false hope.
Purchased 4/5/21
Cashed 4/28/21
Approved 4/20/22 (358 days)
Dealer called with stamp 5/4/22
Did not get batched with one other with a sept cash date. Those paper batches gave me false hope.
OK, so here's a weird one. I have 3 suppressors in jail. On two of them I did the paperwork in July of 2021. The third the paperwork was submitted in January, 2022. Although e-file had come on line by then, my FFL/SOT didn't have electronic filing set up yet.
Guess what. The paper one we submitted 4 months ago just came back. Picked up the suppressor today. Still waiting on the other two from last July.
Guess what. The paper one we submitted 4 months ago just came back. Picked up the suppressor today. Still waiting on the other two from last July.
That, unfortunately, is not the case. There is no provision in the eForm system to amend an application. The only path forward is to get a refund, resubmit, and start the process over again…
Not Jan, but close. My status changed to submitted/in process on Feb 1, filed as a trust. No news yet, so much for 90 days or less that SS was bragging about.
Don't know if these are accurate or not since it hasn't been updated since September 2021
https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/current-processing-times
https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/current-processing-times
Yeah, that's definitely off by 5 months. To the right, that is. I've seen a bunch of approvals with in that time frame, so it appears as though maybe they're trying to keep their "word", but those of us with Paper Form 4's at 1 year know better.
5/14 here, and pending 360 days. I’m right there with you. They are trying to keep their average low. That’s the only explanation of the random madness.
5/10/21 cash date here on my final paper Form 4... Dead Air Sandman-S MIL Contract (FDE)... I need to call tomorrow on the 1 year anniversary, and find out WTF is going on. I called a few weeks ago, but it was still pending...
March 21, 21 still not received. Isn’t the company that sold it to you shoukd be calling to atf?
No…The ATF has all the paperwork, and it was done through Silencer Shop, why the hell would I call my dealer, or have them call the ATF? That would be stupid, since they’re just an intermediary, waiting on the stamp to arrive, just like I am, so I can go and pick it up.
13 months now on regular file. Still pending.
John
John
Ultra 9 gen 2. Form 4 paper
Pending : 5/12/2021
Approved : 5/3/2022
Stamp in hand: 5/10/2022
Pending : 5/12/2021
Approved : 5/3/2022
Stamp in hand: 5/10/2022
Absolutely criminal that it takes that long to process a Form 4!
And they couldn’t even approve the one I submitted in December…. Smh
Form: 4 Paper
Entity: Trust
Pending: 05/14/21
Approved: 05/07/22
Standardized wait: 358 days
Stamp in hand: TBA
STATE: OK
I called this morning and got the good news. It was approved Saturday. I missed out on the 1 year club. That took forever! What’s the average wait time to get a stamp right now. Everyone on r/NFA just kept saying 45 days. I might be wrong, but that seems a little long.
Entity: Trust
Pending: 05/14/21
Approved: 05/07/22
Standardized wait: 358 days
Stamp in hand: TBA
STATE: OK
I called this morning and got the good news. It was approved Saturday. I missed out on the 1 year club. That took forever! What’s the average wait time to get a stamp right now. Everyone on r/NFA just kept saying 45 days. I might be wrong, but that seems a little long.
Sitting at 106 days post cashed check as of today. (Cashed 1/24/22)
Dominus .30 cal
Efile/trust/ Idaho.
Still pending.
Dominus .30 cal
Efile/trust/ Idaho.
Still pending.
I'm still waiting and mine was pending before his...
Damn shame! No rhyme or reason on why it takes so long to process paperwork. And it seems that now that they have the e-file system up and running all of us who did the paper Form 4 got pushed to the backburner.
Called again today… Been over a year now… Still pending.
I wonder if the Biden Admin, or his lapdogs at the top of the ATF really are telling them to just sit on them and not do anything. It certainly seems that way.
I’m waiting on 2. Paper form is 13 months. E form is going on 3 months.
Paper form 4 check cashed 4-9-21
Pending.
E form 4 check cashed 2-23-22
Pending
Race to see which I get 1st.
Paper form 4 check cashed 4-9-21
Pending.
E form 4 check cashed 2-23-22
Pending
Race to see which I get 1st.
You fellas that are over 12 months should look into a UPIN. Any identity theft issues what so ever you will need to go down the UPIN route. https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/vaf-form-25.pdf/view
Call your Congressman, Email, Ask who to speak with. In KS it was a 3 or 4 week fix. If I would not have done this my application would have been left in limbo for ever. Your state may vary.
I was able to speak with my examiner (They contacted me), and the examiner followed up and notified me when my application was approved.
Call your Congressman, Email, Ask who to speak with. In KS it was a 3 or 4 week fix. If I would not have done this my application would have been left in limbo for ever. Your state may vary.
I was able to speak with my examiner (They contacted me), and the examiner followed up and notified me when my application was approved.
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It's not an issue of that. Never had that issue. Worst thing that happened was a stolen debit card, and it was as simple as cancelling it and getting a new one sent to me.
My first 2 cans came back in 8 months, which was average at the time. 3rd one as well all know, was the dealer getting the ATF audit, which tacked about 7 months onto the process and ended up taking 14 months to get it. My 4th paper Form 4 was March 2021 cash and I just got it back in April 2022. This one was cashed May 10, 2021, and it's still pending. So, I honestly think it's just the ATF sitting on their ass and not even fucking with the paper forms. Don't know if it's just laziness, or if the Biden Admin is giving them slow-down orders from the top to decrease numbers and approvals and discourage people. Honestly, at this point, given all the crazy shit they've been pulling lately, I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't behind it somehow.
Single shot trust @ SS kiosk
Order Placed: 3/20/2021
Check cashed: 4/6/2021
Still sitting on my hands…
My brother submitted same day, from the same location, check cashed on same day and he received his a month and a half ago… go figure
Order Placed: 3/20/2021
Check cashed: 4/6/2021
Still sitting on my hands…
My brother submitted same day, from the same location, check cashed on same day and he received his a month and a half ago… go figure
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Just got a call from Wax Gunworks in Del-Ray Beach Fl. and my stamp is in...it was cashed on 5/10/21.
This is my second it is a Thunder Beast Ultra 338 SR and I do have a Sandmand L 30 Cal. and that on e I relieved in 6 month.
This is my second it is a Thunder Beast Ultra 338 SR and I do have a Sandmand L 30 Cal. and that on e I relieved in 6 month.
Yes he is right be patient from what I have been told it is 12 to 15 month and I just got a second one in 12 month so be patient and I know thats hard.
Finally got my cans and SBR approved took about about 7 months.
Form 4 Paper (Trust)
Bought all the stamps through SS
Mask-22HD
Dead Air Sandman S
Octane 45HD
JP SBR
Forms received by ATF 08/28/2021
Checks Cashed 09/03/2021
Correction Letters received 04/19/2022
Forms received by ATF 04/28/22
Approved 05/07/22
In my hands 05/14/2022
Form 4 Paper (Trust)
Bought all the stamps through SS
Mask-22HD
Dead Air Sandman S
Octane 45HD
JP SBR
Forms received by ATF 08/28/2021
Checks Cashed 09/03/2021
Correction Letters received 04/19/2022
Forms received by ATF 04/28/22
Approved 05/07/22
In my hands 05/14/2022
This give me hope I’ll pick up my can next week, and not 30 days from now. This wait was brutal. I was approved 5/7 as well.
I figured I’d give them time to iron out the Efile stuff before I added a new stamp, but a shop out here was having a 10% off sale and so I added another.
Efile 4 Trust, only myself listed.
Purchased 5/13/22
Prints/photos/trust via SS Kiosk/App 5/13/22
Will update my timeline when I get the new one home.
Efile 4 Trust, only myself listed.
Purchased 5/13/22
Prints/photos/trust via SS Kiosk/App 5/13/22
Will update my timeline when I get the new one home.
I guess Iam lucky I did nit expect mine to come but it did...check cashed 5/10/2021 and they called me Friday to come get it.
My first one only took 180 days.
My first one only took 180 days.
Finally called today
Submitted: 18 May 2021
Check cashed: it was CC payment via the Transferer same date but ATF is saying 26 May 2020
Status: still pending which means that pretty much right at a year it has still not even been assigned to an examiner
Have I mentioned that I hate the ATF. And yes, I will again make the point that the AFT splitting examiners between recent efile (coming in approved at about 90-150 days) and their hideous paper back log which they absolutely should have cleared before moving on to the more recent efile submittals. They can get away with this because they are the government and therefore nobody seems to actually expect competence.
Submitted: 18 May 2021
Check cashed: it was CC payment via the Transferer same date but ATF is saying 26 May 2020
Status: still pending which means that pretty much right at a year it has still not even been assigned to an examiner
Have I mentioned that I hate the ATF. And yes, I will again make the point that the AFT splitting examiners between recent efile (coming in approved at about 90-150 days) and their hideous paper back log which they absolutely should have cleared before moving on to the more recent efile submittals. They can get away with this because they are the government and therefore nobody seems to actually expect competence.
What you are suggesting wouldn’t have been accepted by buyers, retailers or can makers because it would throw have thrown everything into more chaos.
For example, the ATF would need to communicate something like: We have been working on an efile submission system (again) and we have it functional (yea right) from this date 12/17/21 we strongly encourage all buyers to stop paper submissions and use only eforms submissions going forward. No Eforms will be processed until ALL paper submissions are cleared currently with an average approval time of 370 days.”
Few people would believe the ATF eforms system would actually work and the bitching and screaming would be nuts. Most people would continue to submit paper submissions and there would be no weaning people off that process because of contempt and disbelief that an eform process would actually work well.
Someone high up at one of the suppressor retailers told me the current backlog of paper submissions was around 240,000, who knows if that number is correct.
I looked up information on the internet about NFA examiners a few months ago and IIRC, there are about 12 actual ATF examiners, 13 contract examiners and one supervisor. As submissions have increased new examiners have not been hired or not in sufficient numbers to handle the increases in submissions.
Two years ago if I recall approvals were about 6 to 8 months. It keeps getting longer as more people buy more cans and the number of examiners remains static.
Actually, no…that’s not what I’m suggesting.
All they need to do is first in, first out. FIFO…it’s an accounting term. They could do any efile system beta testing w live customers that they want. They can accept both paper and efile all they want. BUT, then they all go into the same queue and the oldest submittals get handled before newer ones.
It’s really quite simple…unless you are the ATF.
I would ask you what justification the ATF has for processing and approving efile Form 4's sent in early Feb 2022 before a year old Form 4 like mine or the poor fella above who is at 500 days. IMO, nothing explains this but typical gov incompetence.
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I think you’re swinging at the wind with incomplete information.
First let’s take the guy still waiting at 508 days and counting. We don’t know the details of his submission. Does he have a very common name like Smith, Jones or Brown, did he include his SSN on his submission? Everyone doing a Form 4 I would implore to include your SSN with your submission! Why? It narrows the possibility of mismatch errors with someone else that has a criminal record with the same or similar name!! It also eliminates unnecessary initial searches in databases with no connection to the submission. How? An example would be if you are a civilian having never served in any of the armed forces, when the search is submitted to the DoD it will likely be cleared immediately because no SSN in the DoD database will be found, eliminating the many relevant databases they have that would need to be searched for someone who is active duty or a veteran.
As far as the concern that the ATF will have both DOB and SSN and if hacked you’re at high risk of identity theft. Just assume someone has your ID already; the Equifax, Home Depot etc. et al. data breaches have made necessary that everyone have credit monitoring service, accept it like car and homeowners insurance and keep your credit report locked at all times and only unlock for the few minutes you apply for new credit and relock it immediately. Everyone doing these submissions should absolutely include their SSN.
If the 508 day submitter has never called the NFA branch that is unfortunate and an oversight on his part. At this point he should be calling both US Senators in his respective state, and his district US Congressman’s office. His situation is an extreme outlier. Likely there was a snag with his submission and it has been setting idle.
Onto your FIFO comment. All submissions and by extension approvals do not rest with the ATF alone, they outsource to the FBI and other agencies and wait for the all clear and if they don’t get it, then it likely sets in limbo. Here’s a common rant on Reddit from guys that have security clearances, they complain that they get no special status and their approvals actually take longer and their point of view is, “I’m cleared with the nation’s most sensitive secrets just give me my damn can.” Again that‘s the simplistic view, has anyone thought or considered that it is likely that someone with a security clearance is in ADDITIONAL government and law enforcement databases that in their particular situation must be cleared as well that the general Joe Blow isn’t subjected to those additional reviews?
FIFO is just not a good way to define the review process for your submission. It’s great for CPA’s and companies that operate in physical inventories, it just isn’t a good way to look at this process.
Here is another likely component in the ATF application that they use. I will call it, “search from inception.” Say you are in your 60’s having never purchased a firearm or NFA device. When the search begins the software is thinking, ‘hey I have never seen this person before EVER, I am going extra deep on this search,’ so it goes back further and further in time looking at all relevant databases at the Fed, State and any additional criteria they use to be thorough and then it finds something from 1965, an arrest that there is no clear information as to the disposition of that event, it is immediately flagged for further review, a request is sent out to that government entity and if the ATF does not get a response it sets. What I just mentioned actually happened as I spoke with a compliance person who gave me that example of an actual case he was working to resolve, but the concern was raised by the customer wondering why it was taking so long for his can to get approved and that was the information the ATF conveyed to the compliance person. Now take that same person and his first can or firearm was approved, then with each subsequent submission the search goes faster as the application knows, “this guy has purchased 4 cans and his last approval was March 2020, so if I am right the ‘search from inception’ would no longer be going back to beginning of time, but just back to March 2020 to the present, thus making the approval much faster. So this is just not a simple one submission fits everyone FIFO process. To be clear, by the beginning of time I mean the relevant time for that person; a 21 year old’s search would be only going back a few years to the point where he could have been convicted of a crime; whereas someone 50 years old, back to the beginning of time for them would be 33 years or so to 17 to the age someone can be charged and convicted as an adult.
You want and everyone else wants their can approved ASAP and that is understandable, but I think you are mistaken that the examiners are a bunch of jackasses setting around a lot of the time eating donuts. Do your own research ATF examiners actually attend an academy and I would say they have to be above average intelligence to pass and their work cannot be sloppy or careless, no matter how much the public bitches. The most serious infraction for an FFL licensee to commit is releasing a firearm to a felon. The search criteria is extremely scrutinizing for NFA devices.
The only way the general public is going to get a complete understanding of the ATF review process and why it takes so long is to file a FOIA request and even then, all the details may not be revealed for some security reasons that they don’t want defeated. I do think FOIA would provide alot of additional clarity of why it takes so long and why a one size fits all approach of FIFO does not and cannot apply to each submission.
I’ll end with this: I think it is abundantly clear there are not adequate numbers of examiners. And your reply and that of others may be, “Then why the hell don’t they hire more people, I’m paying them $200 a pop for everyone of my cans!” That is a question for a congressional hearing and I think it is a valid one to ask.
I would like to ask you a rhetorical question and this is for everyone reading this: Do you ever call your congressman or senators about any issues? I know many would say, “it won’t make any damn difference.” You might be right, but I am absolutely certain you are wrong too, it does make a difference even if you what you call them about they don’t move or act on as you wish, but they do sometimes and that is part of being a responsible citizen. If you call and get active in the legislative process at least you’re trying and you can have a clear conscience. But if your going to bitch for the sake of bitching, then maybe you might want to reflect on that.
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I disagree, to me you sound like an apologist for the AFT, the lead times to approval are unconscionable and inexcusable, if it was the process of engaging the FBI to do a damn database search that takes the time then we wouldn’t have seen a large increase in processing time w release of the efile system, and yes…I did write my Senator.
Cheers
Baron I’m going to give you one last example and it applies directly to you. I see you live in MD and lets say have to go to the DMV and to renew your registration, just go along with that you have to go the the DMV and you have to wait in line. You know what you are going to do? Complain, because you don’t think you should have to wait after all you‘re a taxpayer and they should be giving you better service!! So you complain to the point that the DMV hires more people to the point when you go down to renew next year, now they have so many people you see idle employees listening to their iPods, other looking at videos on their phones and you know what your response is going to be? I’ll tell you: “Why those sorry people at the DMV they have so many people working down there they are just setting on their asses! There is no pleasing you. You likely wake up every morning and look for something to complain about because that is the way you roll.
You‘ll be back on here bitching in a day despite the explanations because that is how you view life because you are obtuse, narrow minded and incapable of absorbing any information that doesn’t fit your narrative.
I’ve got two eform submissions in 94 days and its not because I’m special and your the leper that the ATF has it out for. In my first post about this from a couple weeks I explained that time is simply stripped off due to electronic submission, no more mailing off the file, or having a person open that file and to get the check cashed, it’s streamlined, no waiting on the back end for the approval to be picked up at the examiners and then waiting for them to be stamped and emailed somewhere else and then waiting for the stamp to arrive at the dealer. With electronic it just shows up in your email inbox. Print it off with the watermarked stamp and your good to go. All of that shaves months off, but your too obtuse to be able to comprehend facts. You are a chronicle bitcher and that is the way you are and only you can change that; because some people just wake up miserable and want to bring everyone else down with them. You don’t want to accept the facts of how much eform shortens the process and you want to embrace instead that eform is causing you to go to the back of the line and that is either because you don’t want to give up your frequent chronic bitchiness or you are incapable of comprehending the information or your stuck in delusion that the ATF is out to screw you over. The fact is for all the inefficiency you bitch about concerning govt, ironically you should apply for a government job, because you would be one of the sorry govt employees that you constantly whine about.
Probably your letter to your Senator was filled with cynicism, sarcasm and contempt, it wouldn’t surprise me you have so pissed off people with your whiney ass bitching that no one wants to help you. And now your going to hate me, because I confronted you with the truth, but you don’t want fact, information, you just want to complain. And you will be back here bitching again tomorrow or next week its just who you are. This is not a kidney transplant that your waiting for it‘s a can.
Go fuck yourself, ATF man. You have zero idea of the verbiage used in my letter and are just spewing bullshit.
Oh…and I see you got your efile in 94 days. Yeah, your crap about paper form delays being from the FBI just got proved to be just that…crap.
And your comments about how paper forms require….ooh, a few days in the mail and someone to actually have to use a letter opener is both ludicrous and such a non-factor in these delays as to be a non sequitur.
And you don’t like FIFO…how about first in, first to start processing? You do know that when they tell you it’s “pending” that this means it hasn’t even been assigned to an examiner. Yet, your efile application was. If you can’t see the problem with that then I can’t help you see.
Now go away.
For you they are most people just keep there mouth shut and live with the wait. The world does not revolve around your whiney ass. My own situation I bought my trust 26 months ago and then I backed out and got a refund. Why? Because waiting 6-8 months was unacceptable to me and that was my decision. When I heard of the efile rollout I decided to give it a shot and at 94 days I’m pleased. Another can I’m waiting on is at 101 days at present and that’s the way it is. You agreed to paper submission with all of its shortcomings and all you want to do is complain.
When all of the paper submissions are cleared out. Eform submissions could fall to a few weeks only for approval. When that happens you‘ll have a submission in que and when someone else is approved in three weeks you’ll be bitching because it took five weeks for you to get approved, because that is who you are.
In this day and age of technology it is unacceptable for people to have wait a year or longer for applying for something the legal way. I doubt there are any drug dealers or gangbangers trying buy these NFA items. I bought my first can in '06 and I sent it in over Christmas break and I had my can before January was over. I purchased my second can in September of last year and the check was cashed in November. Here I am 6 months later and no can in hand. The ATF has watched demand for cans and SBRs rise for years but has done nothing to speed the process up for law abiding citizens. That is unacceptable....
IMHO we are kicking the dog for the wrong reason.
Instead of arguing with each other about speeding up the approval process.
We should be working with each other on getting suppressors off the NFA list.
It is a piece of pipe and an accessory to a firearm, nothing more, nothing less.
Which, unless you bought that firearm privately, you already went through a NICS check.
I guess we all pick our own battles and if you think your time is better spent trying to speed up the approval process then that is your battle and I wish you success.
Instead of arguing with each other about speeding up the approval process.
We should be working with each other on getting suppressors off the NFA list.
It is a piece of pipe and an accessory to a firearm, nothing more, nothing less.
Which, unless you bought that firearm privately, you already went through a NICS check.
I guess we all pick our own battles and if you think your time is better spent trying to speed up the approval process then that is your battle and I wish you success.
Just did my first eForm today...
Otter Creek Labs Hydrogen-S 7.62 cal.
Purchased: 2/25/22
At Dealer: Maybe a week later? (can't remember)
Stamp & Trust purchased: 4/26/22
Assigned: Today 5/17/22 (Required SS Dealer Rep to redo the paperwork due to system glitches)
Signed: Today 5/17/22
Certified: Today 5/17/22
Status: Submitted/In-Process
Otter Creek Labs Hydrogen-S 7.62 cal.
Purchased: 2/25/22
At Dealer: Maybe a week later? (can't remember)
Stamp & Trust purchased: 4/26/22
Assigned: Today 5/17/22 (Required SS Dealer Rep to redo the paperwork due to system glitches)
Signed: Today 5/17/22
Certified: Today 5/17/22
Status: Submitted/In-Process
Some updates from Bison Tactical....
We are seeing paper Form 4s come in consistently at or over 12 months now.
We are seeing eForm 4s come in around around 100 days give or take.
I strongly suggest people put a single NFA item in a singe trust, then sell the trust. This avoids any re-filing, and if someone wanted a business model of limiting wait times with a bunch of money someone could put a bunch of suppressors on a bunch of single shot trusts and sell the items with 0 wait time - just a form update to the trust information and notice to the ATF.
However the best is to remove a safety device from the NFA oversight - I highly agree with that.
We are seeing paper Form 4s come in consistently at or over 12 months now.
We are seeing eForm 4s come in around around 100 days give or take.
I strongly suggest people put a single NFA item in a singe trust, then sell the trust. This avoids any re-filing, and if someone wanted a business model of limiting wait times with a bunch of money someone could put a bunch of suppressors on a bunch of single shot trusts and sell the items with 0 wait time - just a form update to the trust information and notice to the ATF.
However the best is to remove a safety device from the NFA oversight - I highly agree with that.
Two paper form 4s are still out:
Order Placed: 5/7/2021; Tax Stamp Cashed on 5/14/2021
Order Placed: 5/7/2021; Tax Stamp Cashed on 5/25/2021
I bought another can from SilencerShop on an eForm 4 on 4/28/2022 and still waiting to get it shipped to dealer before eForm can get sent to ATF. So even if the ATF form is approved in 90 days, you can count on a lead time of about another month before the clock even starts ticking on the 90 days unless you buy local. Waiting for the day people realize these things are about as dangerous as an aftermarket drop-in trigger.
Order Placed: 5/7/2021; Tax Stamp Cashed on 5/14/2021
Order Placed: 5/7/2021; Tax Stamp Cashed on 5/25/2021
I bought another can from SilencerShop on an eForm 4 on 4/28/2022 and still waiting to get it shipped to dealer before eForm can get sent to ATF. So even if the ATF form is approved in 90 days, you can count on a lead time of about another month before the clock even starts ticking on the 90 days unless you buy local. Waiting for the day people realize these things are about as dangerous as an aftermarket drop-in trigger.
Just checked my status. Again.
Received 6/28/21
Still Pending. Single person trust, this will be my third can. Both of the others came in before 11 months. FML
Received 6/28/21
Still Pending. Single person trust, this will be my third can. Both of the others came in before 11 months. FML
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