Group size for .22lr and open sights?

[aeronautica86]

Hi guys, I'm new to (posting on) the forum, and fairly new to shooting. I did a little bit of shooting with 22s and 410s with my dad when I was little, but never took it up as a hobby until recently. I just picked up an ar15, because I wanted one and I figured the sooner I get one the better. The AR is fun and I like it, but I am much more interested in precision shooting, particularly with bolt actions.

I looked around at .22s recently because I wanted one for practice and ended up buying a savage mkII F, very cheap, but I can put on a better stock and trigger from sharpshootersupply.com in the future. The other gun I considered was a used cz452 with an inexpensive scope (not sure of the brand, but it was 3x9 and had a large "B" on windage knob) for $275; I decided not to go with that one, even though it seemed like a good deal, because it did not have iron sights, and I figured I should learn to shoot well with open sights and then go to a scope. The savage shot well at the range yesterday, although after using it a bit I am kind of considering selling it and spending the extra money on the CZ just because the CZs action/trigger were so much more smooth than those of the Savage.

But getting to my actual question, what should be my goal in terms of group size with a .22lr and open sights at 25, 50 and 100yds? My accuracy with open sights is pretty crappy right now, but I want to know what kind of group size I should be striving for (so when I get there I'll now its time to step up to a scoped setup).

 

[texasaero]

Re: Group size for .22lr and open sights?

Striving for a group sounds like a personal goal to be set by yourself and for yourself. Your rifle's limitations are your limits, theorectically. But since you are posting for info from others to set your measures, then maybe some club level shooting such as silhouette, or CMP rimfire sporter matches. Both require scoped sporting rifles at 7.5lbs,with out jackets. CMP rimfire matches also have a iron sight category. The ten ring is very generous about 2.5-3MOA. There are people who can "clean" the prone stage with a sling.

Then there are the Olympic smallbore matches known as ISSF shooting see http://www.nbcolympics.com/shooting/index.html They are shooting dedicated 22lr rifles with iron peep sights, jackets, sling, adjustable everything including special underwear. hehe. They are shooting out a dot (.5 MOA) at 50m prone and 4 positions. See Matt Emmons (US) articles and video for his near perfect qualifying score.

I'm sure there are other disciplines such as those run by forum members that utilize iron sights on a factory guns that maybe more exciting. Please have fun with either setup.

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

Re: Group size for .22lr and open sights?

i think everyone should start with open sights (never knew anyone that took their driving test in a ferrari). get a feel for what a rifle does, how sight pictures and alignment works, and alot of trigger time. i guess technically, although unrealistically, as long as you can keep that front sight in line with the back exactly the same, aiming (ususally 6:00) on a target, and all other factors including trigger pull, wind, breathing, etc. are eliminated your groups should be as tight as anyone elses. remember scopes more or less make the target appear closer, and help monitor how good a stable rest you have on the target.
the olympic guys don't have scopes now do they?

the big b is probably for bushnell, and it's probably a sportview or trophy model.

buy lots of ammo, do the 25 yard till you build confidence, accuracy and consistancy, then work up to 50. if you can get under 1.5" at 25,that's not a bad start. in no time the holes should be touching when shooting from a rest. open sights at 50 for a beginner from a rest, a major group of 3" (you'll have flyers) would be a great start. maybe double that plus and inch or two at 100, beginning. in a few months, if you choose to stay with open sights, you'll should be able to cut all that in half,
and with glass optics cut it even further as you'll be able to monitor any breathing, stable rest, or trigger squeeze issues.

but first have fun!

 

[nesikabay]

Re: Group size for .22lr and open sights?

I think both of the above answers are right. But it all comes down to what you plan on doing. I shoot a 22 with open sights almost every day. At 50 yards i have no problem getting 1/2 inch groups. At 100 they are around 1 1/2 to 2 inches. But you stated you were looking at shooting a factory gun. If you can start out with 1 inch groups at 50 yds after you find the ammo you gun likes that would be a good start. I find it that a lot of people Shoot cheap ammo and when the gun they have wont shoot blame it on the gun. Get good ammo i know it cost to much. But who ever said a 22 was cheap to shoot never shot any matches with one. I am not trying to put you down here but do you want to shoot matches or are you a plinker. Plinker is someone that likes to have fun nothing wrong with that. But if you are asking about shooting matches it will take 1/2 inch 50 yard groups to even place

 

[USMCM38A1]

Re: Group size for .22lr and open sights?

What is a good 22 shell and where do you buy them.My Ar-15 I shoot in competition I load my own so I know they are good match ammo of good quiality but I have never shot 22 for match.

 

[nesikabay]

Re: Group size for .22lr and open sights?

Champions Choice or Midway sells good ammo. Lots of shooters including me has had good luck with Wolf ammo. That is what i use to practice with. But when it comes to Shooting matches I like Eley ammo and most match shooters do. Now this is where things get fuzzy. I like and shoot Eley Team and Eley Match most. It cost about half of what Eley Tenex cost. Yes Eley Tenex does shoot better in my gun than the other 2 can. From a benchrest i can see the difference in the Tenex but shooting prone with a sling there is not enough to make it worth the cost. If you want to get more info it would be easyer to call me. 940-366-1669. Dont take it that i am a top 22 shooter i am not i just like to shoot them and shoot them alot

 

[aeronautica86]

Re: Group size for .22lr and open sights?

Thanks for the reply guys, I appreciate the various points of view. For the record, I am not interested in shooting matches, I just want to be proficient in the art of shooting.

Looking at the target I shot the other day, my best group at 25 yds was 1.75", and 2 others were just slightly over 2", my first (and worst) group was 3.5". Only shot 4 five shot "groups" after adjusting the sights for elevation, so I guess thats decent for my first time in years.

After considering my groups from the other day and the suggestions here I think I'll try to shoot for consistent <1" at 25yds, and 1.5-2" at 50yds and after that I'll look into modding the gun.

 

[texasaero]

Re: Group size for .22lr and open sights?

That sound like a great set of goals. In case you haven't done so, make sure your rifle likes the ammo. Since we cannot reload and fine tune loads for a rimfire rifle, many forum members test multiple brands, types, lot no. to find a good match, then buy a lot of it.

 

[aeronautica86]

Re: Group size for .22lr and open sights?

Yeah, I have read here and elsewhere that ammo selection can be key. I need to go out and buy a few different types and test them out in an extended range session. For my shooting the other day I used some Federal value pak that I bought along with the rifle, load NO. 750 (box says 36gr HP, 1260fps at muzzle). I couldn't say whether the gun liked the ammo or not since I have nothing to compare it to - I can say that there were no failures to feed/fire/extract. I don't think the type of ammo I was using would make any difference though, the inaccuracy was completely due to me, still alot of things I need to learn/get right about shooting.

I will do a test of some different ammo types after a couple more range sessions - I want to be proficient enough so that I can see any differences between the loads. I'll keep yall apprised of mine and the gun's progress over the next months.

 

[JeffinTX]

Re: Group size for .22lr and open sights?

I think you have a pretty open ended question: if you're shooting that CZ with stock "open sights" with Federal value packs, 1.5" groups at 50y is great. But if you're shooting a bonafide target rifle with better ammo, I would expect no less than 0.5" at 50y. No, a good .22 target rifle isn't cheap, the Anschutz target rear sight without the apeture runs around $500, and my Anschutz 1913 costs in the same neighborhood of my centerfire target rifles, such as my Tubb 2K, GAP 6br, etc. What I get out of shooting smallbore is that 1. I get to shoot more often 2. It is not forgiving in errors in shooting technique and so it is an excellent teacher 3. if you don't believe that last point, then shoot the 50 meter bullseye target or the 100 yd target 4. shooting in matches makes you better, there's no excuses or "flyers" the shots all count and there's nothing like a little competition to tighten up the sphincter. Shoot a good rifle and ammo so you get good feedback from what you're doing.
good luck