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Having doubts about my 7WSM build, Need advice.

USMCj

USMCj

Gunny Sergeant
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Minuteman
May 1, 2008
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#1
I have everything for my 7 build (Surgeon RSR action, AICS stock, moddified mag to feed WSM) except for the barrel which is on order from ROCK. So I have had some time to do as much research on 7WSM and better options.

The problem is I jumped the gun and bought all the dies (redding comp set) and such for 7WSM. And almost everywhere I find an article on 7 short mags I read that 7/300WSM is better and more efficient than a straight 7WSM.

Plus, NORMA makes 300WSM brass which is very easy to neck down to 7/300, and is a billion times better than Winchester brass.

It looks like I can still use my 7WSM comp dies to load for 7/300WSM, with only the body die needing to be shortened by .040" to bump the shoulder back, so Im not really in that much trouble if I decide to go 7/300WSM instead.

The 7/300WSM wildcat has a bit less case capacity, but a longer neck. Both of which are a plus to me because you dont really use all of the case capacity of the 7WSM, and the longer neck is always good and easier on throats.

Sizing down the 300WSM to 7/300WSM is much easier than sizing it down and fire forming it to a straight 7WSM, so this wildcat is looking really good to me right now.

So I guess my question is, is better brass (NORMA) and the case being more efficient than a straight 7WSM enough reason to go to the 7/300 wildcat, or should I just stick with a straight 7WSM?

I have never been more confused!


here is a pic comparing a 7WSM to a 300WSM, the 300WSM has a shorter headspace of .038"
7300wsmop.png
 
#2
Re: Having doubts about my 7WSM build, Need advice.

I think you should stick with the 7wsm. I have had many 7wsms and all have shot lights out. Neck length brass quality are all irrelevant to me I used to shoot nothing but lapua in 308 and 243 and after having shot thousands or rounds with lapua and win brass the brass quality thing to me is bullshit they shoot the same. But then again I am not a bench rest guy i do not weigh brass and all that crap either. You do not see many 7/300wsm winning matches either.
 
#3
Re: Having doubts about my 7WSM build, Need advice.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Will Cocke</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think you should stick with the 7wsm. I have had many 7wsms and all have shot lights out. Neck length brass quality are all irrelevant to me I used to shoot nothing but lapua in 308 and 243 and after having shot thousands or rounds with lapua and win brass the brass quality thing to me is bullshit they shoot the same. But then again I am not a bench rest guy i do not weigh brass and all that crap either. <span style="font-weight: bold">You do not see many 7/300wsm winning matches either.</span> </div></div>

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek071.html

You were saying?
 
#4
Re: Having doubts about my 7WSM build, Need advice.

And the mag is not the only thing that needs to be modified for the long seating of vlds in the 7wsm. You will also need a relief cut in the bottom of the action not sure but I think surgeon now does it on there wsm action.
 
#6
Re: Having doubts about my 7WSM build, Need advice.

Look, Im not after BR accuracy. But I cant discount the thought of having extra case capacity in the 7WSM and never needing it. And better brass is always a plus to me. I cant stand Winchester brass after being spoiled by Lapua. Norma is the closest I can come to that quality in a short mag.
 
#7
Re: Having doubts about my 7WSM build, Need advice.

If you want to go ahead and deal with the extra expense and trouble of making the brass, then go ahead and knock yourself out. Winchester brass is not that bad. I have plenty of 1/4" or less groups with my barely prepped Winchester brass. From what I hear the 7/300WSM is easier on the throat with the longer necks.

Another thing to reconsider is also the bullet. Everyone and their mom was talking up the 180 Bergers as the best bullet for the 7WSM. In my gun cut for the 180s, I could get the 162AMAXs to shoot better and flatter then the 180s. Don't have to really worry about jump, or jam. I load mine to max mag length and go.
 
#9
Re: Having doubts about my 7WSM build, Need advice.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you want to go ahead and deal with the extra expense and trouble of making the brass, then go ahead and knock yourself out. Winchester brass is not that bad. I have plenty of 1/4" or less groups with my barely prepped Winchester brass. <span style="font-weight: bold">From what I hear the 7/300WSM is easier on the throat with the longer necks.</span>
Another thing to reconsider is also the bullet. Everyone and their mom was talking up the 180 Bergers as the best bullet for the 7WSM. In my gun cut for the 180s, I could get the 162AMAXs to shoot better and flatter then the 180s. Don't have to really worry about jump, or jam. I load mine to max mag length and go. </div></div>

That alone is pushing me to go to that wildcat. Besides more expensive brass, there is no additional cost to going 7/300WSM. Necking down is real easy so its not a big deal to me. I just dont see any downsides.
 
#11
Re: Having doubts about my 7WSM build, Need advice.

I wouldnt fall too far in love with Norma brass....I've used it on and off for the past 20 years with mixed results. Some of it is good some of it sucks. IMO its over rated and over priced.
 
#12
Re: Having doubts about my 7WSM build, Need advice.

I hate forming brass. More time shooting and less time messing with the reloading part. I say you build what you got and go shoot the barrel out, then decide. I think your splitting hairs on the merits of the 7/300, like Will said, this is a tactical site.
 
#13
Re: Having doubts about my 7WSM build, Need advice.

I own a 7 wsm, if I decide to go with another short mag in the future it will be a 7/300WSM, more efficient, better brass, and better barrel life are enough to catch my vote, don't get me wrong the 7mm WSM is great too...JMHO

Steve
 
#15
Re: Having doubts about my 7WSM build, Need advice.

I enjoy reloading. These days with the family and all, it seems like I have more time at home reloading than I do shooting. I still try to make it out to the range at least 2-4 times a month.
 
#16
Re: Having doubts about my 7WSM build, Need advice.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I enjoy reloading. These days with the family and all, it seems like I have more time at home reloading than I do shooting. I still try to make it out to the range at least 2-4 times a month. </div></div>

I dont have time with this thing anymore......
Chevy5-18-09001.jpg


BTW, Are you coming to the club shoot at the end of the month?
 
#20
Re: Having doubts about my 7WSM build, Need advice.

I have had several 7 WSM's. (2) tight neck & (2) no turn. I don't mind the initial brass prep. I almost always turn the neck on all my stuff just to make sure. I set the cutter to take a cut on at least 75% on the neck. Flash hole deburr, square the base, chamfer & cut to length. I have not had any issues what so ever with Win. brass. I just had a new bbl. chambered in 7 WSM & didn't even want to consider the 7/300 WSM the std. 7 works just fine for me just the way it is.
 
#21
Re: Having doubts about my 7WSM build, Need advice.

I would love to hear some solid data other than theroy, on the throat life issue between 7WSM and 7/300WSM. Lets get real here... Both are capable of pushing 180s to 3000+ FPS. That eats up throats no matter the case neck length. If your concerned about throat/bbl life, go 7/08 because magnums arent for you. All that performace come with a price...

Norma brass Vs. Winchester brass. Well, Ill just say that I wont be trading ANY Winchester brass for Norma brass....Never. Yes, I to am an unabashed Lapua brass slut.
 
#23
Re: Having doubts about my 7WSM build, Need advice.

KISS principle.

Why mess with a known entity? Yes, you might get "better" throat life? How much is "better"? If throat life is a concern, a magnum should not be your subject.

Do what you want to do as it is your rifle but the few reasons you cite to justify the extra PITA time doesn't do it for me. I've seen the 7/300 shoot and it doesn't blow the 7WSM away, in fact, it didn't really outshine the normal 7WSM in any aspect. Besides, have you thought about hunting or resale value of having a wildcat like that?
 
#24
Re: Having doubts about my 7WSM build, Need advice.

7RM, all the reports I have read about Norma brass have been the same, they all suck and are not worth the money, except for their short mag brass! which are very consistent and last much longer when compared Win brass.

As for throat life, I dont expect there to be a big difference, but every bit helps with the short life of the 7WSM barrel.


Cheyenne19, I didnt do my homework on the SAUM before I commited to the WSM, so its a bit late to take that route. But going from 7WSM to 7/300 will not cost me any money at this point as I have not had any work done on the barrel yet, hell I dont even have the barrel.....yet.
 
#25
Re: Having doubts about my 7WSM build, Need advice.

Ive got the 7mm-300wsm both are really about the same. I coulndt find any Norma brass anywhere so I had to order some "crappy" winchester brass. Yester day I shot a 3 shot group at 356 yards that measured .416!!! I wouldnt sweat it about the brass issue this gun is faaaaarrr more accurate that I am. Now I do like the longer neck on the 7mm-300wsm but reloading can be a pain in the ass. Winchester brass for the 7mm-300 needs a .309 bushing for it to work. If you really want the 7mm-300 call the place were you bought the dies and see if you can exchange them for a set of 300wsm dies. But if I were you Id just keep the 7mm WSM and run with it
 
#27
Re: Having doubts about my 7WSM build, Need advice.

You can also neck the 270 WSM up and get the longer neck without neck turning which would be appropriate for necking a 30 cal down.

But, like Mike said, while it may be a "better" widget there is nothing wrong with the stock 7 WSM and I too would stick with it for standardization's sake. You can "improve" ANYTHING - more capacity, less capacity, shorter neck, longer neck, change the body angle, change the neck angle, whatever you want to do to it. The 300WM suffers from the same issue of a short neck (something the the 30/338 does not) AND for the same reasons - let's not overlook the driving force behind the case dimension changes between bore diameters - but the 300 WM standard case emerged as the standard. The 7 WSM has done the same.

A straight 284 might be something to look into as well, but it does not have the thump (case capacity) of the 7 WSM.

The 7 WSM is badd ass, no doubt about it. Personally I'd take one over a 338 magnum for what I do if I got a hankerin' for mile shots on steel, even with the action sitting in the safe for a 338 build now.
 
#28
Re: Having doubts about my 7WSM build, Need advice.

Mike, good point on the resale value, but I dont see myself selling this rifle in the future. Even if I did, how hard would it be to rechamber to a straight 7WSM? it only has a longer headspace of 0.038" over the 7/300WSM.

I also dont see necking down brass as PITA as I only need to do it once per batch of brass. And with the short barrel life, I would think that I would only need to do it once per barrel, lol.

When you said the 7/300 did not shine against the 7WSM, what did you mean? accuracy or velocity? I dont see either one of those being true as the 7/300 can pretty much match all aspects of the 7WSM. Please explain.
 
#31
Re: Having doubts about my 7WSM build, Need advice.

Marku, I have the Redding comp die set for 7WSM, it will also work for 7/300 so no new dies are needed. And Im glad so hear that your 7/300 is that accurate! what velocity are you getting with 61.5 of 4831Sc?

NineHotel, I dont mind neck turning and I prefer necking down to necking up. I like that necking down makes the neck thicker, and neck turning it to match the chamber.
 
#32
Re: Having doubts about my 7WSM build, Need advice.

From what Ive been told the 7mm WSM does produce a little better velocites than the 7mm-300wsm. However the they both hit the 3000 fps mark easily.
 
#33
Re: Having doubts about my 7WSM build, Need advice.

Accoridng to JBM ballistics which BTW was spot on at 950 yards im running around 2950fps. Ive got to get a chance to get my chronograph out and check it for sure.
 
#34
Re: Having doubts about my 7WSM build, Need advice.

Look guys, Ill be honest about why I started to look at the 7/300 and norma brass.

I was priming the 100 brand new Win 7WSM brass that I had done a full benchrest prep to, and 60% of the cases had very loose primer pockets! this is brand new brass for fuck sake! I doubt Ill get more than 1 or 2 firings with these. The pockets will loosen up enough that Ill have to trow them away.

So factoring in that, I think Norma brass is a bargain as I spoke to someone that had 13 loads with his 300WSM brass and the pockets were still nice and tight. (he anneals BTW, so do I)
 
#35
Re: Having doubts about my 7WSM build, Need advice.

I think you are putting way too much thought into this then needed....

I have yet to have one Winchester WSM fail me...
 
#36
Re: Having doubts about my 7WSM build, Need advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I was priming the 100 brand new Win 7WSM brass that I had done a full benchrest prep to, and 60% of the cases had very loose primer pockets! </div></div>

I shoot both Lapua and Winchester brass for Palma competition in the 308. Yes, the WIN brass pockets are looser compared the Lapua pockets. NO, I do not get any gas leaking around the primers and bolt face erosion with 46.5 grains of Varget behind a 155 SMK or 155.5 Berger, so I don't see the difference as a problem. The primers don't leak nor blow out.

Have you proven that your "loose" pockets are in fact a problem in your rifle, or do you just want the feel good of a tighter pocket?
 
#37
Re: Having doubts about my 7WSM build, Need advice

I say keep what you have, shoot out the 7WSM barrel, then swap to the new caliber if you still feel like it would give you more. You may find you won't see a need to go to the wildcat.
 
#38
Re: Having doubts about my 7WSM build, Need advice

If the brass is bothering you. Build a 7mm "rsaum" and use 300 saum brass from Nosler. Nosler brass is the bomb. TM
 
#40
Re: Having doubts about my 7WSM build, Need advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mike, good point on the resale value, but I dont see myself selling this rifle in the future. Even if I did, how hard would it be to rechamber to a straight 7WSM? it only has a longer headspace of 0.038" over the 7/300WSM.

I also dont see necking down brass as PITA as I only need to do it once per batch of brass. And with the short barrel life, I would think that I would only need to do it once per barrel, lol.

When you said the 7/300 did not shine against the 7WSM, what did you mean? accuracy or velocity? I dont see either one of those being true as the 7/300 can pretty much match all aspects of the 7WSM. Please explain.</div></div>

I don't think any of us ever "want" to sell a rifle
wink.gif


All I meant to say is that-for me-I don't see anything that the 7/300 can do that the 7WSM can't. I don't think the performance of the 7/300 blows the standard 7wsm out of the water to the point that the 7wsm becomes less capable. I don't like all the prep and FF and other crap. I just don't see a difference that warrants the additional work. Again, that is just my opinion. If you like messing with the brass, then that's cool, that's your thing. But if you're looking for a performance boost, I don't think you'll see it.

$.02
 
#41
Re: Having doubts about my 7WSM build, Need advice

Mike I dont expect to see any performance boost, thats not what this is about. The 7/300 will give me velocities idential to 7WSM, with less powder, it will be a bit easier on the throat, and there are better brass options, thats it. I dont expect it to outperform a 7WSM, nor would I expect a 7WSM to outperform the 7/300 as they both have more than enough case capacity to shoot the 180's at 3150 FPS out of a 28" tube.

I dont know, I guess I could be stressing out over nothing, but this is what happens when you wait for a barrel and have too much time on your hands to research shit. LOL
 
#42
Re: Having doubts about my 7WSM build, Need advice

Sounds like you have made up your mind to me. Exhange your dies and put the brass up in the PX. If you get groups 1/16th bigger than what you want you will blame your brass and never get it out of your head. I think the feel good of the 7/300 is worth the price to exhange everything. I did the same thing in my head over the 6.5 credmoor, 6.5x47 and .260...I ended up with a .243
smile.gif
 
#43
Re: Having doubts about my 7WSM build, Need advice

Norcal, the dies I have will work for the 7/300. The only thing I loose is the 95 pieces of new Win 7WSM brass that I did a full benchrest prep on. Which I can sell so again not a big deal.

Damn this waiting! too much time to change my mind.

Pauk (@Rock) please send me my barrel so I can build this thing and get it over with!
grin.gif
 
#44
Re: Having doubts about my 7WSM build, Need advice

The few writeups I've read on the 7-300wsm seemed to point to a super efficient cartridge design with accuracy above the norm.

If I were to build a custom rifle right now I think I would pick a 7-300wsm too and for all the reasons you stated.Looks like you are a brass preper and don't mind the extra work.

You mentioned that you didn't need benchrest accuracy though.Looking at your build list you will probably wind up with that kind of accuracy anyway.IMO,if you do the 7-300wsm build you should consider a set of custom dies cut to your fired norma brass.Might as well go all the way.

Steve
 
#45
Re: Having doubts about my 7WSM build, Need advice

Custom dies have been on my mind for a while now. I like the idea of never needing to use a body die after a few reloads with just neck sizing. It is something that I'll invest in as soon as my build is done and I have some 2x fired brass to send out.
 
#46
Re: Having doubts about my 7WSM build, Need advice.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Will Cocke</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think you should stick with the 7wsm. I have had many 7wsms and all have shot lights out. Neck length brass quality are all irrelevant to me I used to shoot nothing but lapua in 308 and 243 and after having shot thousands or rounds with lapua and win brass the brass quality thing to me is bullshit they shoot the same. But then again I am not a bench rest guy i do not weigh brass and all that crap either. <span style="font-weight: bold">You do not see many 7/300wsm winning matches either.</span> </div></div>

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek071.html

You were saying? </div></div>

You notice what he uses to seat his bullets?
 
#48
Re: Having doubts about my 7WSM build, Need advice.

I use the straight 7WSM and it works just fine. I've won my share of local and Regional F-Class matches with my tactical 7WSM. the capacity difference with the 7/300 is small enough to not make a significant difference (less than 3 grains difference for a 81 grain capacity cartridge). Winchester brass needs some prep, but it works fine after thaqt is doen, not to mention its probably 1/2 the price of the Norma brass.

Yes a slightly long neck would be nice to chase the throat. I've had no trouble staying in place with my 7WSM. I've put over 1,680 rounds through my 7WSM and its just now reaching the end of its useful life as an F-Class rig.

JeffVN
 
#49
Re: Having doubts about my 7WSM build, Need advice.

you sound almost as if you know what you want to do. imm curious though, if you had not purchased any parts yet, what would you do?

also how hard is it to neck up or down cases? what all does it consist of? would it be easier to neck up .270wsm than neck down .300wsm?
 
#50
Re: Having doubts about my 7WSM build, Need advice.

If I had not bought any parts, 7/300 it would have been, no questions asked.

I prefer necking down, its easy enough to do with a full length die, but then you have to use a expanding mandrel and neck turn the necked down brass, but you end up with very uniform necks.

Necking up makes the necks thinner and doesnt leave much room to neck turn.
 
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