Help with carbon vs corrosion

[db2000]

Hey, opinions welcome on this buildup vs corrosion on my JP high pressure AR10 bolt, cam pin and firing pin.
The BCG is Fail Zero.
Lube was only used of friction surfaces and was Lucas Extreme Duty gun oil.
This first happened after not cleaning the bcg and shooting less than 50 .308 rds. I put the gun away and took it back out in a few weeks and it was approx 35F outside. I attributed it to not cleaning it and the cold. My mirror set-up did the same thing in AR15 but to a lesser extent. The AR10 bcg was stuck in the gun and took was elbow grease to get it out.

Since then, I’ve used the same M-Pro 7 gun cleaner on the bcg I had been using but now after every range trip. I also switched to Slip2000 EWL prior to this happening.
I didn’t fully break down the bcg, just sprayed it and wiped down thoroughly and lubed. I’ve done this for years with all my ARs and never seen this whitish build-up. Never had a problem using various lubes and cleaners, albeit mostly M-Pro 7.

Any thoughts? Thanks

 

[hlee]

So, you sprayed it down and put it away? That's not corrosion. My bet is that it has a greasy composition, and is residue as the MPro-7 slowly evaporated.

 

[db2000]

So, you sprayed it down and put it away? That's not corrosion. My bet is that it has a greasy composition, and is residue as the MPro-7 slowly evaporated.

M-7 was wiped off and then friction surfaces on bcg lubed. It’s not greasy at all. It’s dry and binds the parts together making them difficult to assemble. You still might be right as it would be on those parts shown as they were not wiped off since I didn’t break it down. Weird none of my other bcgs have done this. Maybe the coating Fail Zero uses. But it’s on the JP bolt although none of my other ARs have JP bolts so…
Thanks for your feedback.

 

[6.5SH]

New batches of your cleaner and lube? New or different powder with different properties such as a copper eliminator?

 

[Aftermath]

Read this:

Comprehensive Corrosion Test: 46 Products Compared | Day At The Range

By: DIY_guy We all want to use goods quality products on our guns, bows, fishing gear, knives, autos, hunting and lake front gear and like you I?m not a fan of letting things get rust on them nor am I a fan of items wearing out prematurely. To protect my investment in gear, I began

dayattherange.com

Also:

How clean, is clean enough?

Having a hard time getting my barrel clean even after a little brushing and several cleanings. I don't really care for the sake of being clean, but I am a little worried about the dreaded carbon ring. I am shooting win 6.5 stabal , and it's pretty dang dirty shooting powder. If I were getting...

www.snipershide.com

Note that carbon attracts water.

 

[db2000]

New batches of your cleaner and lube? New or different powder with different properties such as a copper eliminator?

Not different. The AR10 and AR15 are new builds so hard to say. Never used Fail Zero bcg and JP bolts before. Other ARs with same system never had this. Thanks.

 

[E. Bryant]

I'm having problems following the lubrication routine on this set of parts. Am I correct in understanding that it's had Lucas oil, and then MP7, and now Slip2000 all applied in the course of 50 rounds?

My take is that this whitish... whatever is a film deposited by one of the previous products. MP7 claims that its lubrication product "leaves a long-lasting film", so maybe that's it?

I gotta be honest and say that I've got very little experience with this dedicated Gucci stuff. I clean BCGs with automotive brake cleaner, which doesn't leave a residue. I lubricate the BCG with synthetic motor oil, since Mobil and Shell make good products that work across a wide range of extreme conditions. And I don't end up with malfunctions or mysteries.

 

[db2000]

Read this:

Comprehensive Corrosion Test: 46 Products Compared | Day At The Range

By: DIY_guy We all want to use goods quality products on our guns, bows, fishing gear, knives, autos, hunting and lake front gear and like you I?m not a fan of letting things get rust on them nor am I a fan of items wearing out prematurely. To protect my investment in gear, I began

dayattherange.com

Also:

How clean, is clean enough?

Having a hard time getting my barrel clean even after a little brushing and several cleanings. I don't really care for the sake of being clean, but I am a little worried about the dreaded carbon ring. I am shooting win 6.5 stabal , and it's pretty dang dirty shooting powder. If I were getting...

www.snipershide.com

Note that carbon attracts water.

I appreciate those. I’ve read both on here previously but been a few months. Actually what lead to me trying C4. I’ve cleaned several BCGs in C4. I didn’t break down the bolts completely just the other parts from the bcg. Put them in bags with the C4 in my sonic cleaner. Wiped them down good and blew out any excess from inside the bolt best I could. I’ll lube and return to the guns.
I’m going to not spray M-7 Pro directly on the bcg anymore and just wipe down with a cloth with the fluid on it. See what happens.
Thanks for the info. The day at the range experiments were really well done I thought.

 

[db2000]

I'm having problems following the lubrication routine on this set of parts. Am I correct in understanding that it's had Lucas oil, and then MP7, and now Slip2000 all applied in the course of 50 rounds?

My take is that this whitish... whatever is a film deposited by one of the previous products. MP7 claims that its lubrication product "leaves a long-lasting film", so maybe that's it?

I gotta be honest and say that I've got very little experience with this dedicated Gucci stuff. I clean BCGs with automotive brake cleaner, which doesn't leave a residue. I lubricate the BCG with synthetic motor oil, since Mobil and Shell make good products that work across a wide range of extreme conditions. And I don't end up with malfunctions or mysteries.

I’ll try and clarify:

After shooting 50ish .308 rounds:
Removed BCG but didn’t break it down (never have as a routine previously on other ARs).
Sprayed BCG w/ M7 (used it for 10+ years no issues) then wiped it down, lubed with Lucas Extreme Duty (this lube came with a Christensen rifle and after researching, it seemed like a solid product so kept using it).
After sitting in a climate controlled gun room for a few weeks those are the pics.

I cleaned the BCGs up really well and then changed to Slip EWL to see if that variable on these new Fail Zero BCGs might have been the culprit. Same process after shooting a second time, but now using Slip, and the same corrosion/buildup happened after a few weeks of not shooting those two guns.
Thanks for help.

 

[carbonbased]

Personally, I’d first completely disassembly the bolt and clean it and anything it touches/slides on (receiver) with acetone or carb cleaner or brake cleaner (in order of aggressiveness and probably toxicity). Use a brush or at least a cloth or q-tips, don’t just put it in a bag. This way you know you have ALL the other stuff off.

That is the first step I’ve seen mentioned in the cold-weather M16/M4 military manuals. And it makes sense even if you’re not in super-cold environs but are having trouble with function.

And I personally would try not to mix too many lubes together. Pick one oil and one grease per gun. Why make it harder for you to figure out what’s wrong?

This is one way to lube. Unless you are well below zero freezing, I think that advice might serve you well? Otherwise if you’re set on just oil, I think you need to add more of whatever ONE oil product you like.

If I use oil, like @E. Bryant I use Mobil one (0w-20 as I live in cold MN) on most guns after coming to the conclusion that most gun oils and greases are merely repackaged industrial lubes. Plus the fact that the inside of an engine is a hot high-speed hell on earth compared to a pokey-slow innards of a rifle, semi or bolt-action.

On some guns that are hard to lube, I use what came with my Kidd 10/22, namely FP10 in a needle oiler that’s nice.

I could go on and name greases I’m fooling with, but I personally subscribe to if it slides, grease it sort of gun lube philosophy unless it gets really, really cold.

 

[Evintos]

Slip2000 EWL - Calcium sulfonate (corrosion inhibitor). What they call their proprietary calcium complex. (5-25% by weight)

Lucas Extreme Duty Gun oil - Zinc Alkyldithiophosphate (corrosion inhibitor, 15% by weight)

Most likely both of these oxidized (created an oxide layer) in your storage environment.

 

[carbonbased]

I’m no chemical engineer (or any sort of engineer) so the chance of the following is probably 99.999% incorrect but the jokester in me sez the OP just coated the interior of his action with zinc oxide lol.

 

[db2000]

Update.
Stripped down BCGs. Cleaned w/ C4 in a ultrasonic cleaner. Now only wiping down with M7-Pro as opposed to spraying directly on the BCG. Slip EWL after. No further issues. Also, it’s much warmer now than then but so far so good.

 

[E. Bryant]

Buy a set of these needle tip bottles:

www.amazon.com/Precision-Tip-Applicator-Bottles-Quilling/dp/B076JLY95W/

Fill them with motor oil, ATF, whatever. I like to use the leftovers from oil changes in my cars and tractor, but a quart of Mobil 1 is around $10 and would last me a long time.

Apply as needed. When dirty, clean parts with standard automotive brake cleaner - it's cheap, effective (although not as much as it used to be), and doesn't leave a residue. It won't harm rubber parts and is probably safe on any plastic parts used in quality guns, but test to be sure.

Repeat as necessary.

Put the money spent on fancy "gun specific" cleaners and lubricants into ammunition (bore cleaners are a notable exception to this rule).

 

[hlee]

Buy a set of these needle tip bottles:

www.amazon.com/Precision-Tip-Applicator-Bottles-Quilling/dp/B076JLY95W/

Fill them with motor oil, ATF, whatever. I like to use the leftovers from oil changes in my cars and tractor, but a quart of Mobil 1 is around $10 and would last me a long time.

Apply as needed. When dirty, clean parts with standard automotive brake cleaner - it's cheap, effective (although not as much as it used to be), and doesn't leave a residue. It won't harm rubber parts and is probably safe on any plastic parts used in quality guns, but test to be sure.

Repeat as necessary.

Put the money spent on fancy "gun specific" cleaners and lubricants into ammunition (bore cleaners are a notable exception to this rule).

There are so many detergents in modern motor oil that one can skip the brake cleaner if s/he takes a few minutes to clean the BCG with any regularity- like at the end of a range day. I wipe mine down every few 100 rounds with a paper towel and reapply some oil. No special cleaner or picks necessary.

 

[E. Bryant]

There are so many detergents in modern motor oil that one can skip the brake cleaner if s/he takes a few minutes to clean the BCG with any regularity- like at the end of a range day. I wipe mine down every few 100 rounds with a paper towel and reapply some oil. No special cleaner or picks necessary.

True, and even more so for ATF. I still like to flush out dirt and debris with a shot of brake cleaner, and as a bonus, I learn about any open wounds on my hands.