Hoplite Arms

jbell

Gunny Sergeant
PX Member
Minuteman
  • Jan 16, 2010
    5,381
    2,112
    42
    Lewiston, ME
    Theis,
    I just found this thread and am happy I did. I have been about to start a new build for a few months now on either a Curtis or Tempest, but after finding this all that is on hold. I would love to be able to support you on this venture. I will be watching for more info...

    Speak for yourself! I actually do find myself preferring my AI trigger. It could be a hair lighter, but it’s not a benchrest rifle, nor do I use it as such. I find it to be an excellent field trigger, thank you very much! ☺


    "Benchrest triggers" and "field triggers" are terms invented by AI owners to downplay a decent trigger like a Diamond and excuse their triggers. I've shot many a "field trigger" on sniper rifles. They all suck.

    I bought an AT a month or two ago. The previous owner had the trigger adjusted down to a decent feel, but guess what? It's not drop safe. I bought a Comp trigger from someone else used. He had it adjusted just a touch lighter than the stock AI trigger. It also is not drop safe. I bet both those guys would've told people how much they like their AI triggers.

    Not trying to start anything or specifically say others opinions are incorrect, rather stating my personal feelings. I agree, I too love the AI trigger. I can honestly say that the weight of pull (up to a point, say around 3 pounds) has NO effect on my execution of a shot. IMO if anyone says they can’t shoot well with an AI trigger or similar then that is a failure on them and their shooting process. That being said it absolutely has to be a clean, crisp, and repeatable 2 stage trigger. If it is a single stage it needs to be lighter, but my personal opinion is a single stage trigger has no place in this world other than in Benchrest competitions where you want to touch the rifle as little as possible. Which in my opinion is not a “shooting” competition rather a load development, rifle tuning, wind reading competition...
     

    AMGtuned

    Just white trash with money.....
    PX Member
    Minuteman
    May 6, 2018
    934
    821
    Maine
    Tagging in. 2 reasons; new bolt gun will be being started sooner than later, and, I'm always intrigued by the mystery surrounding our beloved @THEIS . He always has an answer, and they're always delivered with facts. That action looks serious, and I've come to expect nothing less from you. Thank you, and best of luck. Looking forward to when I may be able to get hands on
     
    • Haha
    • Like
    Reactions: TACC and THEIS

    reubenski

    First Sergeant
    PX Member
    Minuteman
    Jun 8, 2008
    4,383
    4,037
    41
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Theis,
    I just found this thread and am happy I did. I have been about to start a new build for a few months now on either a Curtis or Tempest, but after finding this all that is on hold. I would love to be able to support you on this venture. I will be watching for more info...






    Not trying to start anything or specifically say others opinions are incorrect, rather stating my personal feelings. I agree, I too love the AI trigger. I can honestly say that the weight of pull (up to a point, say around 3 pounds) has NO effect on my execution of a shot. IMO if anyone says they can’t shoot well with an AI trigger or similar then that is a failure on them and their shooting process. That being said it absolutely has to be a clean, crisp, and repeatable 2 stage trigger. If it is a single stage it needs to be lighter, but my personal opinion is a single stage trigger has no place in this world other than in Benchrest competitions where you want to touch the rifle as little as possible. Which in my opinion is not a “shooting” competition rather a load development, rifle tuning, wind reading competition...

    Hey JBell, let's move a discussion about triggers to another thread on the Bolt Gun forum. I think it's interesting and worth discussing but it does risk sidetracking Theis's thread here.

     
    Last edited:

    Srgt. Hulka

    Lighten Up Francis
    PX Member
    Minuteman
  • Oct 8, 2014
    2,383
    6,765
    Shreveport, Louisiana
    Theis,
    I can’t wait to see it with that cool new logo etched on the side of it.

    Good luck.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: THEIS

    jbell

    Gunny Sergeant
    PX Member
    Minuteman
  • Jan 16, 2010
    5,381
    2,112
    42
    Lewiston, ME
    Hey JBell, let's move a discussion about triggers to another thread on the Bolt Gun forum. I think it's interesting and worth discussing but it does risk sidetracking Theis's thread here.

    I can’t agree more! I should have thought about that before I opened my mouth... my apologies to all


    Back on the subject at hand.

    Theis, I think you mentioned the breech cylinder is held in place by the fit in the action and maybe the barrel. Is this correct? Is it going to be replaceable by the end user and do you think you will offer them as a separate part?

    I really like the flat bottom design! It looks like the tang is pretty thick, is it or is it just the picture? This will make bedding super easy and provide a more secure contact with a chassis design with out having to skim bed.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: THEIS and FatBoy

    JEPN

    Private
    PX Member
    Minuteman
    Apr 23, 2008
    19
    22
    Hi,

    Good eye and international industry knowledge :).

    Some changes have been made internally since I acquired them.
    Myself and Tommi W. have been working on this design for a while now.

    Sincerely,
    Theis

    Nah, not really international industry knowledge since I'm a Finn but I thought I'd seen a similar design somewhere ? Glad to see it surfacing again.
     

    THEIS

    Hi, Sincerely
    Commercial Supporter
    PX Member
    Minuteman
  • Nov 27, 2017
    6,126
    20,397
    Enon Louisiana
    hoplitearms.com
    Theis, I think you mentioned the breech cylinder is held in place by the fit in the action and maybe the barrel. Is this correct? Is it going to be replaceable by the end user and do you think you will offer them as a separate part?

    I really like the flat bottom design! It looks like the tang is pretty thick, is it or is it just the picture? This will make bedding super easy and provide a more secure contact with a chassis design with out having to skim bed.

    Hi,

    There really should be no reason for end user to "want" to, much less "need" to replace/swap the breech cylinder.
    The barrel does not thread onto/into it and it is pinned into the receiver body as a complete independent component from the barrel.
    Once breech plug is fitted and pinned into receiver body, the barrel then threads into "traditional barrel tenon".

    The tang is really thick and the flat bottom allows us to get great results with bonding the receiver to the chassis.

    Tagging in. 2 reasons; new bolt gun will be being started sooner than later, and, I'm always intrigued by the mystery surrounding our beloved @THEIS . He always has an answer, and they're always delivered with facts. That action looks serious, and I've come to expect nothing less from you. Thank you, and best of luck. Looking forward to when I may be able to get hands on

    LOL, that is pretty funny. THANK YOU.

    Sincerely,
    Theis
     

    THEIS

    Hi, Sincerely
    Commercial Supporter
    PX Member
    Minuteman
  • Nov 27, 2017
    6,126
    20,397
    Enon Louisiana
    hoplitearms.com
    Hi,

    Ok guys....I wanted to take a minute to explain the "why" we will be releasing complete weapon systems in the beginning and not stand alone actions.
    I have also added this information to the first post to make it easier to follow and access if needed.

    Initially, we (Hoplite Arms) will offer complete weapon systems and will not be offering actions alone.

    Through a methodical R&D testing program the soon to be offered weapon system and its specifically selected components have been painstakingly tested, redesigned and refined. For over 2 years the R&D process using software in tandem with field trials, have been performed in the most adverse conditions that can be found. Including but not limited to the winters in Finland and the deserts of the UAE. ranging in temperatures from subzero to 120F, while also enduring windblown snow and ultra-fine sand/dust particles which are known adversaries of firearm actions.

    By offering a complete weapon system from the onset we (Hoplite Arms) can ensure that our design is not left vulnerable to issues that have plagued certain sectors of our industry, particularly over the past 5-10 years. Issues that are not only limited to small shops but the largest of manufacturers as well.

    The action market at this moment has become myopic in trying to become the cheapest in price and/or continually offering products that have not gone through what we believe a proper R&D testing process should consist of. While not problematic at face value we believe that strategy has caused several continual and repeated detrimental issues within the industry.

    Customers have had to experience unacceptable issues consisting of erratic lead times, manufacturers having to roll out product fixes/updates to designs that were not found during accelerated T&E, along with auxiliary items such as magazines or triggers not functioning properly.

    While a continuous stream of new products is always a positive for the action market, those products should aim to improve or replace existing legacy products not only expand options available. The sheer amount of bolt-on aftermarket parts now available; while designed to meet OEM specs and interchangeability do not always work in sync with all customer build specs, criteria and combinations of component choices. This causes unforeseen issues by the end user/customer which a well-designed and thoroughly tested complete system will not have.

    Hoplite Arms criteria and performance targets for these new projects (Kopis, Aspis and Phalanx weapon systems) has been aimed at not only adding value and increasing reliability (which should be paramount for any weapon system) but also to enlarge and exceed the current performance envelope.

    In controlled testing environments our receivers have remained operational at pressures up to and including 131,000 PSI. Stage 2 pressure testing had increased pressures to approximately 152,000 PSI pressures without catastrophic receiver failure.

    As expected the Aspis weapon systems’ action had not failed at that immense pressure. Although it should be noted the WM cartridge itself tore completely apart and locked the bolt up. In order to view internal results of the 152,000 PSI pressure test the barrel was cut out of the receiver.

    Once the barrel was removed and the action was inspected, it was noticed the integrity of the action was not compromised. Particularly observed and noticed the extractor within the bolt itself was not compromised.

    Needless to say, we are very proud of the design criteria and its’ functionality success.

    Sincerely,
    Theis
     

    TacticalDillhole

    Shiner of shoes
    Supporter
    PX Member
    Minuteman
  • Jun 26, 2012
    6,197
    6,978
    N. Carolina
    Hi,

    Ok guys....I wanted to take a minute to explain the "why" we will be releasing complete weapon systems in the beginning and not stand alone actions.
    I have also added this information to the first post to make it easier to follow and access if needed.

    Initially, we (Hoplite Arms) will offer complete weapon systems and will not be offering actions alone.

    Through a methodical R&D testing program the soon to be offered weapon system and its specifically selected components have been painstakingly tested, redesigned and refined. For over 2 years the R&D process using software in tandem with field trials, have been performed in the most adverse conditions that can be found. Including but not limited to the winters in Finland and the deserts of the UAE. ranging in temperatures from subzero to 120F, while also enduring windblown snow and ultra-fine sand/dust particles which are known adversaries of firearm actions.

    By offering a complete weapon system from the onset we (Hoplite Arms) can ensure that our design is not left vulnerable to issues that have plagued certain sectors of our industry, particularly over the past 5-10 years. Issues that are not only limited to small shops but the largest of manufacturers as well.

    The action market at this moment has become myopic in trying to become the cheapest in price and/or continually offering products that have not gone through what we believe a proper R&D testing process should consist of. While not problematic at face value we believe that strategy has caused several continual and repeated detrimental issues within the industry.

    Customers have had to experience unacceptable issues consisting of erratic lead times, manufacturers having to roll out product fixes/updates to designs that were not found during accelerated T&E, along with auxiliary items such as magazines or triggers not functioning properly.

    While a continuous stream of new products is always a positive for the action market, those products should aim to improve or replace existing legacy products not only expand options available. The sheer amount of bolt-on aftermarket parts now available; while designed to meet OEM specs and interchangeability do not always work in sync with all customer build specs, criteria and combinations of component choices. This causes unforeseen issues by the end user/customer which a well-designed and thoroughly tested complete system will not have.

    Hoplite Arms criteria and performance targets for these new projects (Kopis, Aspis and Phalanx weapon systems) has been aimed at not only adding value and increasing reliability (which should be paramount for any weapon system) but also to enlarge and exceed the current performance envelope.

    In controlled testing environments our receivers have remained operational at pressures up to and including 131,000 PSI. Stage 2 pressure testing had increased pressures to approximately 152,000 PSI pressures without catastrophic receiver failure.

    As expected the Aspis weapon systems’ action had not failed at that immense pressure. Although it should be noted the WM cartridge itself tore completely apart and locked the bolt up. In order to view internal results of the 152,000 PSI pressure test the barrel was cut out of the receiver.

    Once the barrel was removed and the action was inspected, it was noticed the integrity of the action was not compromised. Particularly observed and noticed the extractor within the bolt itself was not compromised.

    Needless to say, we are very proud of the design criteria and its’ functionality success.

    Sincerely,
    Theis
    If I buy one, I will name it Paparock.
     

    bigdaddydmd

    Tooth Shucker
    PX Member
    Minuteman
    Sep 30, 2010
    566
    583
    Phoenix, AZ
    Liking the name. Good marketing @THEIS. I'm in for a Diomedes Short action based caliber.

    p.s. Diomedes was a badass. Only mortal to ever see Athena in her full divine form. Plus he had all kinds of cool weapons like flame spitting shield and helmet blessed by Athena and a bunch of shit made by Hepheastus. Rumor was this dude was so fearless he took on Ares on the battlefield and wounded him.

    "The Iliad lists nearly thirty names of warriors killed by Diomedes, along with several other excerpts mentioning him "freaking the fuck out and murdering a shitload of people with his dick", so we can assume that this guy was at least somewhat competent in the field of making people his bitches. "

    *edit* Any idea of ETA this will be hitting the market.
     
    Last edited:

    W54/XM-388

    Online Training Member
    Supporter
    PX Member
    Minuteman
  • Oct 1, 2005
    9,040
    16,832
    Dallas, TX
    In controlled testing environments our receivers have remained operational at pressures up to and including 131,000 PSI. Stage 2 pressure testing had increased pressures to approximately 152,000 PSI pressures without catastrophic receiver failure.

    As expected the Aspis weapon systems’ action had not failed at that immense pressure. Although it should be noted the WM cartridge itself tore completely apart and locked the bolt up. In order to view internal results of the 152,000 PSI pressure test the barrel was cut out of the receiver.

    Once the barrel was removed and the action was inspected, it was noticed the integrity of the action was not compromised. Particularly observed and noticed the extractor within the bolt itself was not compromised.

    Needless to say, we are very proud of the design criteria and its’ functionality success.

    Sincerely,
    Theis

    That right there should be your lead selling point!

    Everyone has seen the videos of people doing something stupid and the rifle blowing up and hurting someone.

    So offering a rifle system that has a huge safety margin is a major thing and may be a key selling point for a lot of folks deciding on your rifle vs somebody else's.
     

    THEIS

    Hi, Sincerely
    Commercial Supporter
    PX Member
    Minuteman
  • Nov 27, 2017
    6,126
    20,397
    Enon Louisiana
    hoplitearms.com
    @THEIS

    What's the target price on complete weapon system?

    Hi,

    We are still nailing that down! Since deciding to offer a traditional fiberglass stocks as an option; we need to get them in hand, inlet them and do some evaluations.
    @Terry Cross replied to my email very promptly and we look forward to getting a few Sentinels in hand so that we can not only support a distinguished member of the industry but also be able to provide our end users with The Sentinel stocks.
    McM on the other hand has not replied back to my RFQ for 10 stocks so we can see how the receivers and bottom metal fits, feels, and functions in specific models.

    7mm leonidas?

    Tell me more!
    I want to hear more about all of the new cartridges.

    Hi,

    Standby on those fellas....We have a new batch of cases and projectiles on the way. The "rollout" of these specs will definitely be better served via video :).....just think of 85-90k pressures being the "norm".

    Liking the name. Good marketing @THEIS. I'm in for a Diomedes Short action based caliber.

    *edit* Any idea of ETA this will be hitting the market.

    Hi,

    Sounds like the baby 223 size platform needs that name lol.
    ETA of hitting market with weapon systems in hand is towards end of this year. We are not going to do the pre-production sale type events.

    That right there should be your lead selling point!

    Everyone has seen the videos of people doing something stupid and the rifle blowing up and hurting someone.

    So offering a rifle system that has a huge safety margin is a major thing and may be a key selling point for a lot of folks deciding on your rifle vs somebody else's.

    Hi,

    Exactly...that is why we not only have equipment coming from RSI to test and display pressures but have been in contact with NTS Test Facility for independent pressure/destructive testing.

    Sincerely,
    Theis
     

    bigdaddydmd

    Tooth Shucker
    PX Member
    Minuteman
    Sep 30, 2010
    566
    583
    Phoenix, AZ
    ETA of hitting the market before the end of the year? Very nice. I expected the usual, see us for pre-orders at SHOT SHOW we see from other manufacturers when they unveil their new babies.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: THEIS

    THEIS

    Hi, Sincerely
    Commercial Supporter
    PX Member
    Minuteman
  • Nov 27, 2017
    6,126
    20,397
    Enon Louisiana
    hoplitearms.com
    ETA of hitting the market before the end of the year? Very nice. I expected the usual, see us for pre-orders at SHOT SHOW we see from other manufacturers when they unveil their new babies.

    Hi,

    No, lol...right now the inventory is looking like 20 Aspis rifles and 20 Kopis rifles being available middle of December but that number may double within the next couple weeks. That just takes a phone call to the alloy supplier.
    IMO the End Users are growing tired of the pre-order sales events and for that reason; we will not be launching business with that type of sale.

    Sincerely,
    Theis
     

    ohiofarmer

    Sergeant
    PX Member
    Minuteman
    Apr 3, 2002
    1,383
    76
    Central Ohio
    Theis, is there a “baby” 223 action coming? Perhaps I overlooked it elsewhere in the thread, or perhaps you were just having fun with one of the proposed names.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: THEIS

    THEIS

    Hi, Sincerely
    Commercial Supporter
    PX Member
    Minuteman
  • Nov 27, 2017
    6,126
    20,397
    Enon Louisiana
    hoplitearms.com
    Theis, is there a “baby” 223 action coming? Perhaps I overlooked it elsewhere in the thread, or perhaps you were just having fun with one of the proposed names.

    Hi,

    A combo of all the above to be honest.

    The next system after of Aspis and Kopis is going to be the Phalanx (BMG/CT size). After that is in the pipeline I will dedicate time and manpower to finalization and T&E of the baby system. Right now I am not happy with the magazine fit/feel/function.

    So short answer is yes there is one coming.
    Long and realistic answer is the "baby" will not be this year.

    Sincerely,
    Theis
     

    THEIS

    Hi, Sincerely
    Commercial Supporter
    PX Member
    Minuteman
  • Nov 27, 2017
    6,126
    20,397
    Enon Louisiana
    hoplitearms.com
    Hopefully the sentinel stock works out.

    I’ll likely be in for one of those if so.

    Hi,

    Terry has been a pleasure to discuss our desires of the Sentinel stock use with.

    We will be getting about half a dozen in the pipeline ASAP....He is working up the details on flat top, flat bottom, his LOP system, his Loggerhead system, flushcups, etc for us to get in hand to inlet for receiver and dbm.

    Sincerely,
    Theis
     

    Dthomas3523

    Hall Monitor
    Staff member
    Moderator
    Supporter
    Hessian
    Commercial Supporter
    PX Member
    Minuteman
  • Jan 31, 2018
    10,083
    13,825
    South Texas
    Hi,

    Terry has been a pleasure to discuss our desires of the Sentinel stock use with.

    We will be getting about half a dozen in the pipeline ASAP....He is working up the details on flat top, flat bottom, his LOP system, his Loggerhead system, flushcups, etc for us to get in hand to inlet for receiver and dbm.

    Sincerely,
    Theis

    Sold
     

    FALex

    Headmaster of Romper Room
    PX Member
    Minuteman
    Feb 5, 2011
    1,748
    300
    USA
    Damn I love all the development going on in this sport.

    Theis, congratulations on bringing more innovation to the industry. I hope you crush it in terms of sales.

    Terry Cross is one of the nicest guys I've ever spoken with on the phone (one of those guys who you feel like you've known for 20 years even though you just called him for the first time 3 minutes prior) an all around super good dude and Sentinels are the best fiberglass stocks out there, IMHO. Please try to move forward with that plan...I need an excuse to get an Arctic Camo-inspired rig, and I won't need much else in terms of persuasion.
     

    THEIS

    Hi, Sincerely
    Commercial Supporter
    PX Member
    Minuteman
  • Nov 27, 2017
    6,126
    20,397
    Enon Louisiana
    hoplitearms.com
    Dovetail infront of the mag like the JP? Can’t tell when I zoom in

    Hi,
    Currently no, I can check utility patents and such if having dovetail in front of magazine is wanted.


    Hi,
    I have a few spots out towards Dryden we can let you put hands on one when we have builds finished.


    Damn I love all the development going on in this sport.

    Theis, congratulations on bringing more innovation to the industry. I hope you crush it in terms of sales.

    Terry Cross is one of the nicest guys I've ever spoken with on the phone (one of those guys who you feel like you've known for 20 years even though you just called him for the first time 3 minutes prior) an all around super good dude and Sentinels are the best fiberglass stocks out there, IMHO. Please try to move forward with that plan...I need an excuse to get an Arctic Camo-inspired rig, and I won't need much else in terms of persuasion.

    Hi,

    THANKS for the support.
    The response from active and inactive hide members to the initial introduction of our company and products has been very nice.
    We just talked about that yesterday in regards to the comments and questions we have received. I am actually using some of the questions to make a FAQ list to be incorporated into website and brochures.
    And +100 on KMW/Terry.

    Sincerely,
    Theis
     

    Dthomas3523

    Hall Monitor
    Staff member
    Moderator
    Supporter
    Hessian
    Commercial Supporter
    PX Member
    Minuteman
  • Jan 31, 2018
    10,083
    13,825
    South Texas
    Hi,
    I have a few spots out towards Dryden we can let you put hands on one when we have builds finished.


    Sincerely,
    Theis

    Let me know when. Had been tossing around the idea of putting an AI in a sentinel.

    This is much easier.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: THEIS

    W54/XM-388

    Online Training Member
    Supporter
    PX Member
    Minuteman
  • Oct 1, 2005
    9,040
    16,832
    Dallas, TX
    I'm assuming complementary Air taxi shuttle rides are for "valued customers" looking to unload a good part of their nation's yearly budget on supplies to keep the people safe?
     
    • Like
    Reactions: THEIS

    Greg Langelius *

    Resident Elder Fart
    PX Member
    Minuteman
  • Aug 10, 2001
    8,747
    4,701
    74
    Arizona, good place for me...
    Some of us are liking the PPC, Grendel, and X39 chamberings. I'd just like to ask that the appropriate bolt face be considered.

    That said, the features on the first page of this topic are flatly intriguing; first for their ingenuity, and second, for their practicality. They appear (forgive my lack of deep industry knowledge) thoroughly innovative.

    At the risk of being blasphemous, this is the kind of innovative genius that put me into the Savage Fan Boy column. Will a barrel nut be a feature? Will the barrel mounting be compatible with Savage-Style drop-in barrels?

    Greg
     

    THEIS

    Hi, Sincerely
    Commercial Supporter
    PX Member
    Minuteman
  • Nov 27, 2017
    6,126
    20,397
    Enon Louisiana
    hoplitearms.com
    prices getting added to the site today?

    Hi,

    ?

    I hope not, let me keep dreaming I could afford one.

    Hi,

    You just may be surprised :)

    Some of us are liking the PPC, Grendel, and X39 chamberings. I'd just like to ask that the appropriate bolt face be considered.

    That said, the features on the first page of this topic are flatly intriguing; first for their ingenuity, and second, for their practicality. They appear (forgive my lack of deep industry knowledge) thoroughly innovative.

    At the risk of being blasphemous, this is the kind of innovative genius that put me into the Savage Fan Boy column. Will a barrel nut be a feature? Will the barrel mounting be compatible with Savage-Style drop-in barrels?

    Greg

    Hi,

    Thank you for the compliments and support.
    Here is pdf drawing of the tenon area (metric figures btw). At this time there are no plans to do an "in-house" barrel nut option.
    1564696266804.png


    I'm assuming complementary Air taxi shuttle rides are for "valued customers" looking to unload a good part of their nation's yearly budget on supplies to keep the people safe?

    Hi,

    O those type of clients fly in style..1564696309403.png


    Sincerely,
    Theis
     

    W54/XM-388

    Online Training Member
    Supporter
    PX Member
    Minuteman
  • Oct 1, 2005
    9,040
    16,832
    Dallas, TX
    Looking at your new website the proprietary cartridge listings are rather intriguing.
    It will be really interesting to see what performance levels they have and what the costs of buying the ammunition from you (as well as what types).