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Re: How do Surgeon Rifles compare
I don;t think you can go bad with either. The question is do you like blonds, brunettes, or red heads ?
I don;t think you can go bad with either. The question is do you like blonds, brunettes, or red heads ?
Re: How do Surgeon Rifles compare
Once you're at that level it's hard to say one is better than the other, but I'd say it's just as good. Surgeon builds a hell of a rifle and has great customer service. I'd try hard to find an instock rifle that was the specs I wanted, their builds are about 6 months out right now from what I hear and I'm impatient.
J
Once you're at that level it's hard to say one is better than the other, but I'd say it's just as good. Surgeon builds a hell of a rifle and has great customer service. I'd try hard to find an instock rifle that was the specs I wanted, their builds are about 6 months out right now from what I hear and I'm impatient.
J
Re: How do Surgeon Rifles compare
Surgeon is certainly in the top tier of custom builders. My Scalpel is probably my favorite rifle.
When you get to that level, there are many fine custom builders and it's more a matter of personal preference. Sort of like Porsche v. Mercedes or Patek v. Lange. You really can't lose.
Surgeon is certainly in the top tier of custom builders. My Scalpel is probably my favorite rifle.
When you get to that level, there are many fine custom builders and it's more a matter of personal preference. Sort of like Porsche v. Mercedes or Patek v. Lange. You really can't lose.
Re: How do Surgeon Rifles compare
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get the Surgeon from GAP, that way Moon can lengthen the ejection port <span style="font-style: italic">before</span> you get it. </div></div>
Why do you lengthen yours? I've never had an issue... (knock on wood)
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get the Surgeon from GAP, that way Moon can lengthen the ejection port <span style="font-style: italic">before</span> you get it. </div></div>
Why do you lengthen yours? I've never had an issue... (knock on wood)
Re: How do Surgeon Rifles compare
KY338 this was from another thread about the reliability:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you have an empty piece of brass in the action, how do you run the bolt ?
What happens is, it pulls the spent casing out, spins it around and deposits it back into the action. </div></div>Yup. Makes your Surgeon a single shot.
Moon has a fix, though: extend the ejection port.
The problem appears to be that when you run the bolt hard the empty brass remains engaged by the extractor until the body of the case is behind the opening of the port. When the extractor cuts the case loose the bottom third of the case hits the side of the port opening, spins the case 180 degrees, and deposits the empty case in the action backwards.
I sent Preston what I thought was a polite PM explaining the problem. He read it and deleted it. I never received an answer. </div></div>
KY338 this was from another thread about the reliability:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you have an empty piece of brass in the action, how do you run the bolt ?
What happens is, it pulls the spent casing out, spins it around and deposits it back into the action. </div></div>Yup. Makes your Surgeon a single shot.
Moon has a fix, though: extend the ejection port.
The problem appears to be that when you run the bolt hard the empty brass remains engaged by the extractor until the body of the case is behind the opening of the port. When the extractor cuts the case loose the bottom third of the case hits the side of the port opening, spins the case 180 degrees, and deposits the empty case in the action backwards.
I sent Preston what I thought was a polite PM explaining the problem. He read it and deleted it. I never received an answer. </div></div>
Re: How do Surgeon Rifles compare
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYshooter338$</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get the Surgeon from GAP, that way Moon can lengthen the ejection port <span style="font-style: italic">before</span> you get it. </div></div>
Why do you lengthen yours? I've never had an issue... (knock on wood) </div></div>
I never had an issue with mine as a 308, had it rechambered to a 300wsm and it wouldn't eject reliably at all, Moon lengthened the ejection port and it now functions perfectly.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYshooter338$</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get the Surgeon from GAP, that way Moon can lengthen the ejection port <span style="font-style: italic">before</span> you get it. </div></div>
Why do you lengthen yours? I've never had an issue... (knock on wood) </div></div>
I never had an issue with mine as a 308, had it rechambered to a 300wsm and it wouldn't eject reliably at all, Moon lengthened the ejection port and it now functions perfectly.
Re: How do Surgeon Rifles compare
Hmmmm strange. I have a couple in 308 and 300WSM and never had an ejection problem. Good to know though for future reference.
Hmmmm strange. I have a couple in 308 and 300WSM and never had an ejection problem. Good to know though for future reference.
Re: How do Surgeon Rifles compare
I have a Surgeon in 7WSM and it even ejects loaded rounds without a problem.
The problem with rechambering a 308 action into a WSM action is that Surgeon relocated the side bolt release further back on the WSM action so it travels further back to eject long cases. By convering it to WSM yourself, you dont get the added bolt travel that you would from a straight up WSM action.
I have a Surgeon in 7WSM and it even ejects loaded rounds without a problem.
The problem with rechambering a 308 action into a WSM action is that Surgeon relocated the side bolt release further back on the WSM action so it travels further back to eject long cases. By convering it to WSM yourself, you dont get the added bolt travel that you would from a straight up WSM action.
Re: How do Surgeon Rifles compare
I have owned bolth. I have bought rifles from bolth Surgeon and GAP. I feel the Surgeon Scapel was a better rifle.The Scapel was more accurate, fit and finish were better, and Surgeon was an easier company to deal with than GAP. If I were going to buy another top of the line custom rifle I would choose Surgeon.
I have owned bolth. I have bought rifles from bolth Surgeon and GAP. I feel the Surgeon Scapel was a better rifle.The Scapel was more accurate, fit and finish were better, and Surgeon was an easier company to deal with than GAP. If I were going to buy another top of the line custom rifle I would choose Surgeon.
Re: How do Surgeon Rifles compare
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tim1071</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have owned bolth. I have bought rifles from bolth Surgeon and GAP. I feel the Surgeon Scapel was a better rifle.The Scapel was more accurate, fit and finish were better, and Surgeon was an easier company to deal with than GAP. If I were going to buy another top of the line custom rifle I would choose Surgeon.</div></div>
I won't ask you to explain because that opens a whole other set of issues.
I have two GAP's now, a semi and bolt, and I like them both. I found the GAP company great to work with but then again I am kind of laid back so I don't let things bother me. My next buy may be a Surgeon as I don't have one or it is going to be a TAC-OPS. I am layed on for another trip to Afghanistan next year so I will start a build when I leave so it will be ready for me when I get back.
If you decide on a Surgeon let me know how it goes.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tim1071</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have owned bolth. I have bought rifles from bolth Surgeon and GAP. I feel the Surgeon Scapel was a better rifle.The Scapel was more accurate, fit and finish were better, and Surgeon was an easier company to deal with than GAP. If I were going to buy another top of the line custom rifle I would choose Surgeon.</div></div>
I won't ask you to explain because that opens a whole other set of issues.
I have two GAP's now, a semi and bolt, and I like them both. I found the GAP company great to work with but then again I am kind of laid back so I don't let things bother me. My next buy may be a Surgeon as I don't have one or it is going to be a TAC-OPS. I am layed on for another trip to Afghanistan next year so I will start a build when I leave so it will be ready for me when I get back.
If you decide on a Surgeon let me know how it goes.
Re: How do Surgeon Rifles compare
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a Surgeon in 7WSM and it even ejects loaded rounds without a problem.</div></div>Mine did, too. It was with empty brass that it had a problem.
Jacob's had the same problem mine did. His was a 7mm, but mine a .308. And it was with the short action 591. The RSR does not seem to have that problem, or if it does I haven't seen it or heard about it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a Surgeon in 7WSM and it even ejects loaded rounds without a problem.</div></div>Mine did, too. It was with empty brass that it had a problem.
Jacob's had the same problem mine did. His was a 7mm, but mine a .308. And it was with the short action 591. The RSR does not seem to have that problem, or if it does I haven't seen it or heard about it.
Re: How do Surgeon Rifles compare
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a Surgeon in 7WSM and it even ejects loaded rounds without a problem.</div></div>Mine did, too. It was with empty brass that it had a problem.
Jacob's had the same problem mine did. His was a 7mm, but mine a .308. And it was with the short action 591. </div></div>
What exactly was it doing to the empty brass? Would it hang up at a 45 degree angle half in half out?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a Surgeon in 7WSM and it even ejects loaded rounds without a problem.</div></div>Mine did, too. It was with empty brass that it had a problem.
Jacob's had the same problem mine did. His was a 7mm, but mine a .308. And it was with the short action 591. </div></div>
What exactly was it doing to the empty brass? Would it hang up at a 45 degree angle half in half out?
Re: How do Surgeon Rifles compare
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Papagrizzly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What exactly was it doing to the empty brass? Would it hang up hang up at a 45 degree angle half in half out?</div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">KY338 this was from another thread about the reliability:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Papagrizzly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What exactly was it doing to the empty brass? Would it hang up hang up at a 45 degree angle half in half out?</div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">KY338 this was from another thread about the reliability:
Graham said:
Re: How do Surgeon Rifles compare
I had a Nesika that did that, although it just hung up and fell back in place. Long action. I opened up the loading port about .100" and milled it at an angle towards the bolt so that it was an easy exit for the case. Worked flawlessly.
I have a Surgeon 591 WSM action on order and will be starting with a .308 boltface. Later I plan on adding a magnum boltface so I can make that a dual purpose rifle, if need be. I do not expect issues given Surgeon's reputation.
I had a Nesika that did that, although it just hung up and fell back in place. Long action. I opened up the loading port about .100" and milled it at an angle towards the bolt so that it was an easy exit for the case. Worked flawlessly.
I have a Surgeon 591 WSM action on order and will be starting with a .308 boltface. Later I plan on adding a magnum boltface so I can make that a dual purpose rifle, if need be. I do not expect issues given Surgeon's reputation.
Re: How do Surgeon Rifles compare
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fastford</div><div class="ubbcode-body">cant go wrong, my scalpel rocks and so do my GAP's!!!!!</div></div>
+1
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fastford</div><div class="ubbcode-body">cant go wrong, my scalpel rocks and so do my GAP's!!!!!</div></div>
+1
Re: How do Surgeon Rifles compare
I've never owned a GAP although I've shot a couple and had one in my possession for a little while. I do own two Scalpels. One in .308 and the other in .223 Rem. I think it's really not a marginal difference in fit, finish and function. I'd go with Surgeon.
I've never owned a GAP although I've shot a couple and had one in my possession for a little while. I do own two Scalpels. One in .308 and the other in .223 Rem. I think it's really not a marginal difference in fit, finish and function. I'd go with Surgeon.
Re: How do Surgeon Rifles compare
I bet if I put the two infront of you you couldn't tell which one was built better. What I'm saying is that I've seen a few of each and both of em where top notch as far as I could tell. But thats me.
I bet if I put the two infront of you you couldn't tell which one was built better. What I'm saying is that I've seen a few of each and both of em where top notch as far as I could tell. But thats me.
Re: How do Surgeon Rifles compare
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a Surgeon in 7WSM and it even ejects loaded rounds without a problem.</div></div>Mine did, too. It was with empty brass that it had a problem.
Jacob's had the same problem mine did. His was a 7mm, but mine a .308. And it was with the short action 591. The RSR does not seem to have that problem, or if it does I haven't seen it or heard about it. </div></div>
Ahh, sorry, didnt realize you were talking about the 591. Because my RSR ejects spent brass very well. They all land in the same spot too.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a Surgeon in 7WSM and it even ejects loaded rounds without a problem.</div></div>Mine did, too. It was with empty brass that it had a problem.
Jacob's had the same problem mine did. His was a 7mm, but mine a .308. And it was with the short action 591. The RSR does not seem to have that problem, or if it does I haven't seen it or heard about it. </div></div>
Ahh, sorry, didnt realize you were talking about the 591. Because my RSR ejects spent brass very well. They all land in the same spot too.
Re: How do Surgeon Rifles compare
I asked Robert Gradous about getting a Surgeon rifle and he told me that if I did, it would be a great rifle. If a gunsmith like Robert tells me that Surgeon builds a great rifle, that is all I need to know...
I asked Robert Gradous about getting a Surgeon rifle and he told me that if I did, it would be a great rifle. If a gunsmith like Robert tells me that Surgeon builds a great rifle, that is all I need to know...
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