Suppressors How to Prevent Suppressor from gumming up AR?

[CanPopper]

I was shooting with a Ranger 2 suppressor on my 24" AR today. The first 15 shots were really great with touching groups and predictable POI shift from unsuppressed.

However, after the first 15 shots, my rifle got really really dirty and each succeeding shot was .5" lower (at 100) than the previous. The ejected brass was dirty as heck too with carbon all the way to the head. Things got so dirty I needed to use the forward assist to get the bolt to completely close.

When I got home, I needed to do the complete clean with Break Free in the barrel extension and bolt to clean all the gunk out.

How do you guys keep your AR's running with a suppressor? Do you fire at a slower rate or is this par the course? Is it time for me to get a custom gas piston upper built for my AR?

 

[maccrazy2]

Re: How to Prevent Suppressor from gumming up AR?

What type of ammo are you using? I have a M4-2000 on my 14in barred full auto M4 and can run many mags with wolf with no issues other than a little gas in the face. Need a gas buster charging handle so I am told. The only issue I have had is when suppressed every so often I will have a case stick in the chamber. It has only happened with steelcased ammo and when dirty. I drop a cleaning rod down the barrel and it falls out like it was not even stuck. I have only had this happen I think 3 times in many thousand rounds. For the cost savings in ammo for the cheap stuff it is an issue I can live with.

 

[glocksig40]

Re: How to Prevent Suppressor from gumming up AR?

Adjustable gas block.

 

[tsw]

Re: How to Prevent Suppressor from gumming up AR?

we have not seen that problem until we are into the 1500 round range and no lube or cleaning, i do suggest pri's gas buster charging handle, but that should not do anything with your chamber, we shoot m193 and some handloads. what are you shooting? having the rounds in the mag discolored from carbon is not unusual, but i do not mean actual carbon build up on them. is this a built gun? what size is the gas port hole? anything special with the gas block or tube? try different ammo. we have seen this at shows that we do with some other tubes that people bring, we generally loan them some ammo and a bolt carrier and all is well. at a show 3 days ago met a guy with ionbond, he can coat your bolt and carrier with a carbon based coating so carbon will not stick, we are going to try it just for fun. he is in greensboro nc, he said like 15 bucks to do it, and he coats all of fnh pistols in fde, and all of kershaw's knives and even the new barrett mrad.

 

[CanPopper]

Re: How to Prevent Suppressor from gumming up AR?

Well, the ammo I'm shooting is handloads. Nosler Competition 69gr with 25gr of Varget, Hornady brass, and Federal Small Rifle Match primer. The brass is full length resized so it feeds just fine unsuppressed.

My bolt carrier group is the titanium nitrided BCG from DPMS and I already have the PRI gas buster so I don't get gas face when shooting my rifle.

Only variable that may be the culprit is my gas block which is the Badger Ordanance low profile one which isn't adjustable. Not sure what the size of the gas hole is for my barrel.

The rifle is a custom build.

 

[Bacarrat]

Re: How to Prevent Suppressor from gumming up AR?

Crap is still going to be blown back into the upper, piston system or not. I have gone over a thousand rounds suppressed without ever having to clean the gun. Nothing really special with the gun, except for that I use a Tubb recoil spring.

 

[CanPopper]

Re: How to Prevent Suppressor from gumming up AR?

I got the Tubb Recoil Spring too.

 

[shoepop]

Re: How to Prevent Suppressor from gumming up AR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Crap is still going to be blown back into the upper, piston system or not.</div></div>

Correct just not as much.

 

[Downrange1x]

Re: How to Prevent Suppressor from gumming up AR?

Gas pistons are not the golden cure for every ailment mostly imagined and operator induced . I run a Noveske 18"SPR with a switchbloc gas system and a PRI Gasbuster C/H and never have any problems other than normal cleaning and maintenance. That could be from John's excellent productsand just the fact that the D.G.I. system hasn't made it this many decades by being the piece of crap everybdy tries making it into just to sell the next best miracle super ninja stealth product to come down the pipe.Also sometimes I get the lazyass after a long rangeday or training session 800-1200 rd. day and just don't feel like cleaning my tools(sorry John) .A couple swipes with a boresnake cleans up just fine.

 

[bigdawgcje]

Re: How to Prevent Suppressor from gumming up AR?

Chad - PM inbound.........

 

[GRIM]

Re: How to Prevent Suppressor from gumming up AR?

Noveske barrel and switchblock, PRI gas buster charging handle, Zero Fail bolt & carrier. Seems to work well for me - never had my 16" AR rifle with M4-2000 suppressor puke/jam/fail and I hardly ever clean it.

 

[BookHound]

Re: How to Prevent Suppressor from gumming up AR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Crap is still going to be blown back into the upper, piston system or not. I have gone over a thousand rounds suppressed without ever having to clean the gun. Nothing really special with the gun, except for that I use a Tubb recoil spring. </div></div>

But, but, but... DI systems crap where they eat! The piston is THE answer! DI guns never run more than 100 rounds when dirty if you are lucky. Only a piston gun will run tens of thousands of rounds without any problems.

LOL. Bacarrat, you are spot on dude (which is pretty much the norm for you).


I've tried every piston system on the market and have yet to jump onto the piston bandwagon. DI guns will run just fine. Heck, most of my ARs are 11.5" barrel SBRs and I rarely shoot them without suppressors. Some suppressors will create more back pressure than others. I mostly run an M4-2000 and Ops Inc 16th. I run PRI GasBusters on all my ARs because it is a quality product. They help reduce some of the gas blowback but I still get some in the face if running at a high cycle rate. I use standard weight recoil springs and DPMS two-piece heavy buffers on all my SBRs and they will run fine suppressed and unsuppressed. I don't soak my carriers in lube.

Just my experience for what its worth.

 

[m1garand30064]

Re: How to Prevent Suppressor from gumming up AR?

I have had similiar experiences Bacarrat. I run a POF-415 and a 16 inch rock river M4 style DI gun with an AAC 762SD silencer. With the silencer on I notice no difference in blow back and both guns are filthy after use. When I shoot unsupressed the piston gun is a lot cleaner.

I must say I have a friend that owns an Armalite AR-10 and a 762SD. He has installed a JP adjustable gas block, a heavy buffer, and a PRI gas buster charging handle and it runs extremely clean! It is by far my favorite weapon to shoot suppressed. I have toyed with the idea of installing an adjustable gas block on my rock river, but have been too lazy to do so thus far.

Just my experiences and opinions...YMMV!

 

[CanPopper]

Re: How to Prevent Suppressor from gumming up AR?

Looks like the variable I need to experiment with would be the adjustable gas block. Seems to me the back pressure from the suppressor is causing my rifle to become overgassed so maybe a low gas setting with the suppressor on should get my gun to run much cleaner.

 

[m1garand30064]

Re: How to Prevent Suppressor from gumming up AR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CanPopper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks like the variable I need to experiment with would be the adjustable gas block. Seems to me the back pressure from the suppressor is causing my rifle to become overgassed so maybe a low gas setting with the suppressor on should get my gun to run much cleaner. </div></div>

It makes a huge differnce on my buddy's AR-10. That is a precision rifle and we do not subject it to any high volume fire. I really wonder how well it would do in my AR-15 which gets put through the ringer. I will find out one day!

 

[PLeighton]

Re: How to Prevent Suppressor from gumming up AR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CanPopper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks like the variable I need to experiment with would be the adjustable gas block. Seems to me the back pressure from the suppressor is causing my rifle to become overgassed so maybe a low gas setting with the suppressor on should get my gun to run much cleaner. </div></div>
In the mean time, here are a few things to try that are much cheaper & easier than changing your gas block.
- Try some 10W-30 Mobile 1 synthetic oil on the BCG. (Apply liberaly)
- Try some SLiP 2000 Extreme Weapons Lubricant (It is a bit better than Mobile 1)
- Try cleaning the can out with piping hot water and Dawn dish detergent. (Be sure to agaitate, rinse, and then dry)
...The Dawn trick worked suprisingly well for me...

 

[Witch_Doctor]

Re: How to Prevent Suppressor from gumming up AR?

Standard ole Bushmaster 16" with a Sure Fire FA556SA. Took 2300 rounds without cleaning before it stopped, then we just gave it a good wipe down and she was back for more. Caveat: that was over a one month period, just shooting and putting it up dirty, then shooting again.

 

[CanPopper]

Re: How to Prevent Suppressor from gumming up AR?

I moved my Ranger 2 suppressor to my Keltec PLR 16 pistol yesterday. The PLR 16 is a piston pistol, sort of a hybrid AR/AK design.

Anyways, after firing 50 rounds through it, I noticed the brass still got dirty all the way to the head. However, I didn't have any feeding or gradual POI drop issues.

Looks like the Keltec fed better. Meanwhile, it seems like the Ranger 2 simply has more back pressure that cause more crap than usual to get blown back into the chamber. Guess my AR as currently configured doesn't play well with the Ranger 2 suppressor.

 

[cal50]

Re: How to Prevent Suppressor from gumming up AR?

I had an AWC/CQB suppressor on a M16A1 with 10 1/2" barrel. I reloaded my ammo with IMR-4198 powder and it ran noticeably cleaner than my ball powder propellant (WW846 H335 WCC846).

YMMV

 

[mirrorsaw]

Re: How to Prevent Suppressor from gumming up AR?

I own a Ranger 2 as well.

I installed a switchblock on my 16"/car gas and it is worth the money to me.

You can tell the difference when you switch the setting from suppressed to unsuppressed (plus you can just turn the gas off totally).

The rounds in the mag still end up a little dirtier though...

 

[RollingThunder51]

Re: How to Prevent Suppressor from gumming up AR?

..

How to Prevent Suppressor from gumming up AR?

Low pressure suppressor (know the difference)...AWC/CQB an old design that is a tank! Overbuilt FA gone wild. Keep it!
Adjustable gas block
Piston gas driven
Good powder
Dont pull the trigger
Buy a different design


..

 

[gruntbull]

Re: How to Prevent Suppressor from gumming up AR?

The ammo you are running sounds dirty... real dirty, 15 rnds shouldnt do much. I suggest a pistol system as a few others have, or an adjustable gas block. The nice part of a piston is it keeps a lot of dirty gas from coming back on the bolt.

 

[chenha]

Re: How to Prevent Suppressor from gumming up AR?

I want to buy a new supressor & AR-15 combo with these things in mind any suggestions?
Low pressure suppressor
Adjustable gas block
Piston gas driven

 

[christian77]

Re: How to Prevent Suppressor from gumming up AR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CanPopper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How to Prevent Suppressor from gumming up AR?</div></div>Remove the suppressor.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CanPopper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Things got so dirty I needed to use the forward assist to get the bolt to completely close.</div></div>Sounds like your gun needed some lube in the first place brother.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CanPopper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...after the first 15 shots, my rifle got really really dirty...The ejected brass was dirty as heck too with carbon all the way to the head.</div></div>Shooting suppressed is like shooting with a BFA on. Your weapon and ammo is ALWAYS going to get dirty.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CanPopper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When I got home, I needed to do the complete clean with Break Free in the barrel extension and bolt to clean all the gunk out.</div></div>I actually have a drill that I keep a rod locked into with a brass chamber brush...I stick it in and let the drill rip...people freak out when they hear it...but it doesn't hurt it and cleans all the poo outta it real quick. Use Carburetor Cleaner also....cheaper than Break Free at Wallyworld and works better.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CanPopper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is it time for me to get a custom gas piston upper built for my AR?</div></div>Their is no magic fairy dust to sprinkle on any weapon (piston or not)...just maintain it...I guarantee you were probably shooting it without enough lube...and you have to accept that its going to get messy....REAL MESSY.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downrange1x</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gas pistons are not the golden cure for every ailment mostly imagined and operator induced.</div></div>BINGO!

I'm really trying not to sound like a douche-bag, but their seems to be a whole lot of folks with high-maintainiance expectations of their battle rifle.

 

[blkwtr88]

Re: How to Prevent Suppressor from gumming up AR?

I did the same as well, installed 16", so worth it... i like being able to turn the gas off... the gumming was not as big of a deal

 

[chenha]

Re: How to Prevent Suppressor from gumming up AR?

This is where I am coming from. I have a few ARs in the vault in various basic configurations, several stripped lowers, and a variety of parts kits and spare parts. My desire is to have one AR that is "souped-up" and shoot better, straighter, and cleaner. If a piston conversion gives me some of that, then why not go for it (assuming $ is not a deterrent). From what I can tell,I could always switch back.