Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

[Coryjames]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

Hmmmm never shot any matches. I would like to start. I do a lot of preaditor hunting contests. The Midwestern coyote hunting event is coming up. For this I use a .204 r15 I can tell you the dirtier the rifle gets plays a huge effect on its drop at long ranges. But with such a flat shooting round the drop isn't even worth taking into account. My friends .308 the effect is much greater I have a feeling the fast velocity of the .204 kinda helps

 

[Trevor300wsm]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RotARy15</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M25BeastShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are we still talking about Savage out of the box rifles? I think I'm lost or listening to the guys from "The Big Bang Theory" (the Shooting Channel version)
</div></div>

Yes, we are talking about stock Savages shooting .05 MOA groups at 100 yards which puts AI rifles to shame however, the stock Savages shoot S-Curves which makes them substantially less accurate past 300 yards. And although Savages have easy caliber/barrel changes, doing it is likely to make the gun explode because you suck at tightening nuts and bolts. And no one can post a 5x5 because Savages are so accurate that the posters would be accused of firing 5x1's into paper held up by 2x4's while the rifle is rested on a 4x4. And some Savages, unfortunately, shoot 6 MOA groups at 100 yards because they were barreled backwards and shoot reverse S-Curves which result in .25 MOA groups at 1000 yards. And people only buy custom rifles because they are rich and stupid and like shiny things.

I think I covered it all...

ETA: Another reason people pay big money for custom rifles, and quite a valid one at that, is the intelligence and competence of the rifles fairy. Every rifle comes with an external ballistics fairy tasked with minor course corrections during the bullets trajectory. But only high dollar rifles come with A-class fairies. The lower the fairy's class the more mistakes they are bound to make. Paying almost nothing for a rifle increases the chances that the fairy is gay. This can be troublesome as we all know that gay is not straight, and we prefer that our rounds fly true.

The reason that semi-auto rifles are horribly inaccurate is because the possible rate of fire is so much higher that the fairy may not have the time to return to the muzzle in order to guide the next round. This rate of fire issue is also the leading cause of fairy fatigue.</div></div>

Alot of shit talking for someone who just bought his first "expensive" scope during Black Friday weeked with SWFA.

 

[Trevor300wsm]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoryJames</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmmmm never shot any matches. I would like to start. I do a lot of preaditor hunting contests. The Midwestern coyote hunting event is coming up. For this I use a .204 r15 I can tell you the dirtier the rifle gets plays a huge effect on its drop at long ranges. But with such a flat shooting round the drop isn't even worth taking into account. My friends .308 the effect is much greater I have a feeling the fast velocity of the .204 kinda helps </div></div>

WTF??
Yeah and I'm running Mobile 1 5-20 full synthetic in my 1990 K5 with a Fram filter.

Since we are all staying on topic I just thought I'd share that as well.

 

[oosickness]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RotARy15</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M25BeastShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are we still talking about Savage out of the box rifles? I think I'm lost or listening to the guys from "The Big Bang Theory" (the Shooting Channel version)
</div></div>

Yes, we are talking about stock Savages shooting .05 MOA groups at 100 yards which puts AI rifles to shame however, the stock Savages shoot S-Curves which makes them substantially less accurate past 300 yards. And although Savages have easy caliber/barrel changes, doing it is likely to make the gun explode because you suck at tightening nuts and bolts. And no one can post a 5x5 because Savages are so accurate that the posters would be accused of firing 5x1's into paper held up by 2x4's while the rifle is rested on a 4x4. And some Savages, unfortunately, shoot 6 MOA groups at 100 yards because they were barreled backwards and shoot reverse S-Curves which result in .25 MOA groups at 1000 yards. And people only buy custom rifles because they are rich and stupid and like shiny things.

I think I covered it all...

ETA: Another reason people pay big money for custom rifles, and quite a valid one at that, is the intelligence and competence of the rifles fairy. Every rifle comes with an external ballistics fairy tasked with minor course corrections during the bullets trajectory. But only high dollar rifles come with A-class fairies. The lower the fairy's class the more mistakes they are bound to make. Paying almost nothing for a rifle increases the chances that the fairy is gay. This can be troublesome as we all know that gay is not straight, and we prefer that our rounds fly true.

The reason that semi-auto rifles are horribly inaccurate is because the possible rate of fire is so much higher that the fairy may not have the time to return to the muzzle in order to guide the next round. This rate of fire issue is also the leading cause of fairy fatigue. </div></div>
Omg this thread is sooo full of win! +1 to this

 

[jtb33]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jtb33</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I haven't read through all 6 pages </div></div>

Though your post was irrelevant to what is being discussed specifically, I don't think anybody can argue with your logic. You sure missed out on a bunch of nonsense by not reading. </div></div>

Thanks.

I have a glass of Ovaltine in front of me. And some pretzels. Mmmmm...

 

[Trevor300wsm]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

More Ovaltine PLEASE!!!

 

[BattleAxe]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DP425</div><div class="ubbcode-body">After some thought and a brief discussion with someone else, I've decided we might both be wrong..... </div></div>Well my week went from zero to uh-oh in the course of a few short hours so I don't have time to discuss it further right now. Interesting discussion though but likely the wrong place to have it given the southern direction of this thread. Remember though that this is Sniper's Hide... We're never wrong, but we're sometimes mistaken

 

[RotARy15]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trevor300wsm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Alot of shit talking for someone who just bought his first "expensive" scope during Black Friday weeked with SWFA. </div></div>

Not shit talking, just making a funny by simply taking every point of view in the thread to the extreme.

And just because I bought my first expensive rifle scope doesn't mean I have no experience with using them. Although I'll be the first to admit that I do not have the necessary skills to fully utilize the equipment that I have recently purchased, that shouldn't preclude me from making a funny out of this thread.

 

[Coryjames]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trevor300wsm</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoryJames</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmmmm never shot any matches. I would like to start. I do a lot of preaditor hunting contests. The Midwestern coyote hunting event is coming up. For this I use a .204 r15 I can tell you the dirtier the rifle gets plays a huge effect on its drop at long ranges. But with such a flat shooting round the drop isn't even worth taking into account. My friends .308 the effect is much greater I have a feeling the fast velocity of the .204 kinda helps </div></div>

WTF??
Yeah and I'm running Mobile 1 5-20 full synthetic in my 1990 K5 with a Fram filter.



You like the fram? you use the tough guard?

Since we are all staying on topic I just thought I'd share that as well. </div></div>

 

[Radar360]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RotARy15</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Every rifle comes with an external ballistics fairy tasked with minor course corrections during the bullets trajectory.

Paying almost nothing for a rifle increases the chances that the fairy is gay. This can be troublesome as we all know that gay is not straight, and we prefer that our rounds fly true.

</div></div>

RotARy15 wins! LOL

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

It's not fairies at all but something much more sinister....BWAHAHAHA.

"From the beginning, round balls were used with the rifle, for practical and religious reasons, as the ball was easy to load, and the sphere was associated with the heavenly bodies, and helped to dispel the demonic connotations which became associated with the rifle.

The first explanation of rifling in 1522 by a Bavarian necromancer, was reassuring. The accuracy of the rifle was said to be caused by the fact that no demon could stay astride the spinning bullet, as shown by the sinless rotating heavenly spheres, as compared with the sinful stationary earth.
To settle the matter finally by experiment, the Archbishop of Mainz in 1547, had two members of the shooting club fire at a target at 200 paces range. One shooter used lead balls, the other silver balls, deeply marked with the sign of the cross and blessed by the Clergy. At the conclusion of twenty shots by each man, it was found that the lead balls had given 19 hits, and the silver ones, none!

This lead to the natural conclusion that the demons were actually guiding the spinning bullets.

The manufacture of rifles was henceforth forbidden, and all existing ones confiscated.
Non-observance of the Edict was punished by burning at the stake.

The true reason; that silver balls could not be driven down the rifling to take the grooves, as could be done with lead bullets, was not, of course, suspected.

The prohibitation, like most of its kind, where interest is a stake, soon fell into disuse, but the connection of the firearm with demonology lingered on. Der Hexenhammer (The Hammer of Witches, 1487) described the means by which the Devil could be induced to aid markmanship.

Most of the ritual involved the theft of a consecrated wafer during the Mass. 'There are many nobelmen who keep such magic shooters at their courts and allow them to boast of similar depravities.'

Another method was to obtain magic bullets from the Devil. This meant casting bullets at a crossroads on Christmas Eve, when the Devil would appear. He could supply fern seed (the fern has no seed) which would enable the shooter to hit any target. Again, the Devil would conduct a shooting school, for groups of three hunters, one of whom would lose his soul.

When Karl Maria Von Weber wrote his celebrated opera Der Freishutz , his librettist Fredrich Kind was able to publish a two volume work on Shooting Witchcraft, in 1843, with the material he had accumulated. Belief in invoking hidden powers to aid shooting still exists in remote regions..."

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/6CMLjS3pU9Q"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/6CMLjS3pU9Q" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

That's how I did it. Hellhounds on my trail....hellhounds on my trail....

 

[chrisj]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

Here's my take...Yes..a Savage (or other factory rifles under $1,000) can be just as accurate as a $3000-$4000 custom rifle. The difference is that the factory rifle "MAY be a .25 moa shooter, it may be a .50 moa shooter or may be a 1 moa shooter. You are pretty much assured that a well built custom will be a sub .50 shooter. I would send a custom back to its builder if it didn't shoot .50 or less.
I have built MANY 223 bolt riles and owned Many factory 223's. Hands down, the most accurate 223 I have ever owned was an old Rem 700 PSS/223 with a 1/12" twist that cost $500. It shot 5 shot .25 moa with handloads if I did my part. But do most Pss rifles avg .35 moa? Don't think so. LUCK OF THE DRAW

 

[RotARy15]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

I imagine the A-Class fairies to look like those cartoon girls from Japan with long blonde hair in pig tails and blue eyes dressed in kinky shool-girlish attire with super short black skirts that flap effortlessly in the wind. And knee high black leather boots with a raised knee guard and combat style gloves with knuckle guards and a hint of gauntlet styling to complete the sexy Battle Maiden theme. But no one has ever actually seen them...

I guess the gay ones probably look like flamboyant boys that are way too into bondage and chaps. Most likely of the San Fran variety but with a little bit of Guido-tightshirt.

Moral of the story, no one wants to admit that the cartoon girls are smoking hot, but they are...

 

[Wannashootit]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BattleAxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Crono your rifle and you'll have some of your proof. Going further, one day when I have range time to waste (rare) I’ll take my IR camera with me and show you the difference in group size obtained between a hot barrel/chamber, verses a cool barrel/chamber with a rifle with a lower end barrel. I’ll also show you just how hot a round can get merely from sitting in the chamber too long…a common occurrence in autos since the rifle chambers the round, not the shooter. You simply cannot quote “modern physics” and ignore heat and the effect is has on pressure, ignition, combustion, the barrel, and even the round.

Here’s a thought provoking question…do you believe that two identical metal objects, one at 250 degrees F, and one at ambient temperature, are the exact same shape and size?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No offense intended, and I wish you well, but all too often in the shooting world there are certain pseudo-mystical ideas that begin to crop up amongst individuals that involve the derangement of physics and/or common sense. Until and unless someone can explain how a bullet can change course in midflight, there's nothing here to debate.</div></div>

Thank you sir. I wish you well too. However I'll say again...I am not claiming that a bullet can change course mid flight. What I am stating to be a fact is that the projectiles trajectory is absolutely different every time you pull the trigger (assuming we're not talking about a $10K benchrest rig shooting handloads) and that difference is attributable to what happens inside the rifle after the primer is struck. Internal ballistics absolutely affects external ballistics and not necessarily in linear predictable fashion.

Either way I don’t see how any burden of proof falls in my lap. I’m not the one promoting the notion that an off-the-shelf rifle that prints “whatever” at 100 yards, can accomplish the same feat with the same level of consistency at 1000 yards. Likely no amount of debate, math equations, etc. could convince me otherwise.

I didn’t enter this thread because I have anything against Savage. To the contrary I like their rifles but there’s a very good reason that the top gun makers are not standing in line to obtain their barrels.
</div></div>


The whole reason I buy powders like Varget and XBR is that they are not affected by temperature. And aren't we introducing barrel harmonics into this argument, where they don't belong?

All he was saying is that bullets fly straight once they're released from the barrel. Barrel harmonics can and will change the release point, and whether or not that is consistent will sure as hell affect the point of impact. But that's a different discussion.

Far as I'm concerned, 1" at 100 yards = 10" at 1000 far as the rifle is concerned. Everything else that affects bullet flight is external and has nothing to do with the stick.

 

[Dirty D]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

More irrelevant meatgazing I see...

 

[Radar360]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

Custom rifle fairy:

Non-custom rifle fairy leaning on cheap-O:

How most Savage owners see their rifles/fairies

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

I've had plenty of good luck with my Savages. I love the way they shoot out of the box.

As stated the difference is, "Can you get one the way you want it?"

I know I couldn't. And as much as I liked my standard .223 and .308 rifles, they couldn't reach as far as I wanted because they weren't set up to maximize that potential. That's the difference I see when it comes to a Savage vs. a Custom. A Custom is just exactly that. You get exactly what you want for a reason.

If you reload consistently, you will no doubt get good accuracy from a given barrel. I've heard it said, but I don't believe it, custom barrels will shoot anything better. That's not true simply because each barrel has it's own optimal harmonics. Also, when a barrel is throated for a particular bullet it's going to feed and shoot that bullet better than one much lighter or heavier and loaded at a far different length.

You can take a Savage, load for it and make it a better shooting rifle. But, so can you do that with a Remington, Winchester, Howa, CZ,...... {edit: Any good custom is going to shoot better with rounds tailored for it, as well}

I see a custom as being able to get everything you want from a rifle, as long as it works reasonably well. And, not have to compromise on something you don't want.

While Savage is being extremely innovative in the field of long range shooting, they are a far piece away from what a lot of top shooters want. Although, the modularity of their system allows a shooter to much more easily convert to what HE wants. But, that is customizing. And in Customizing, once you get something, you always seem to want more or different.

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

does anyone think he also may have meant the ability to call savage and talk to that lady, i dont know her name, but many do, and get a savage in pretty close to any config and caliber that you wanted in either the HS or A5 or their house brand if you intend a manners or XLR or (giggle) AICS swap at some time. is that true? can you pretty much get any thing from their "custom shop"?? and now with their own AI compatible mag system. have you seen the oversized trigger guard?

also even if thats so, do we then not call it a factory gun for the purpose of this now 6 page thread? look, i bought a savage in an HS, added a shilen and SSS lug and skim bedded it. whats that worth? start with a $900 gun and tell me what it would cost to do that to a remy action. do they offer a HS or A5 stock from the factory? what would it cost to get to the same place with a 700 action?

maybe its not taking anything away from the custom market, maybe its just adding a step between where a guy can get pretty much exactly what he wants a little bit easier than with a 700 platform both moneywise and labor wise, plus the DIY factor. some just like doing and some just dont have a lathe to DIY a 700. we dont all have good smiths true, but with smiths like we have here, there is no reason soneone should hesitate to ship off work.


so maybe its a simple yes or no answer. its no in that case.


you cant even say its taking away from smiths cause some guys still send their savage to a smith. but i just dont get the hate. you know people with 700s make the same claims as the savage guys as the howa guys as the tikka guys. and we all know why we dont hear from the custom guys.


they really do shoot 1/4"-3/8" moa all day. at least they did when they left the factory.


oh and since the hellhounds are on the loose

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[TacBlade]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

If you gave a guy $5000 and he could only buy one rifle, it would be a custom! Most guys cannot afford a Custom, & the next best thing for the best bang for their buck is a Savage. Those guys, including myself are going to talk up their Savage! Savage rifles shoot very good for production rifles, end of story!

 

[HPLLC]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TacBlade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you gave a guy $5000 and he could only buy one rifle, it would be a custom! Most guys cannot afford a Custom, & the next best thing for the best bang for their buck is a Savage. Those guys, including myself are going to talk up their Savage! Savage rifles shoot very good for production rifles, end of story! </div></div>

That's probably pretty close to the synopsis. The custom rifles may be able to be matched in performance by one of 2-3 Savage guns, but they also have nice features Savage doesn't have.

better triggers, smoother actions, custom bolt knobs, sako style bolt releases, M-16 style extractors, pretty coatings, stainless barrels, bedding, picatinny rails machined into the action, etc.

Most of the fringe benefits of custom guns are unnecessary or past the point of diminishing performance to cost ratio, or have little to do with performance (like pretty makers marks, custom bolt knobs, and texture-added, custom painted stocks), but they are really nice fringe characteristics to have.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Another good point is not all custom rifles shoot like a house of fire. I've seen custom guns with Krieger barrels that shot 5/8MOA (maybe the gunsmith did a poor job of building them). That's nothing special and reflects a guy that paid a lot for mundane performance.

But then some guys get custom guns that shoot 1/8MOA or SUB 1/4MOA. That's really awesome performance. So maybe there are "good and bad" custom guns. </span>

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AXEMAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">does anyone think he also may have meant the ability to call savage and talk to that lady, i dont know her name, but many do, and get a savage in pretty close to any config and caliber that you wanted in either the HS or A5 or their house brand if you intend a manners or XLR or (giggle) AICS swap at some time. is that true? can you pretty much get any thing from their "custom shop"?? and now with their own AI compatible mag system. have you seen the oversized trigger guard?

also even if thats so, do we then not call it a factory gun for the purpose of this now 6 page thread? look, i bought a savage in an HS, added a shilen and SSS lug and skim bedded it. whats that worth? start with a $900 gun and tell me what it would cost to do that to a remy action. do they offer a HS or A5 stock from the factory? what would it cost to get to the same place with a 700 action?

maybe its not taking anything away from the custom market, maybe its just adding a step between where a guy can get pretty much exactly what he wants a little bit easier than with a 700 platform both moneywise and labor wise, plus the DIY factor. some just like doing and some just dont have a lathe to DIY a 700. we dont all have good smiths true, but with smiths like we have here, there is no reason soneone should hesitate to ship off work.

....

</div></div>

Axe,

I originally called Savage to see what they would put together for me. From what they had at the time, the only thing I couldn't get then, that I have on my 7mm-08 now is the 1-8" twist, the snappy lookin' tactical bolt handle and the lift kit. They would have done the HS or McMillan tactical style aluminum bedded stock, put a 1-9.25" twisted 26" heavy barrel on there. I think at the time they either wanted like $1300 or $1500. Keep in mind that's a basic $1000 MSRP rifle. So, in essence, they were going to charge me MSRP, plus the barrel. Here is where you have to keep the logistics in mind as to why cost was high. At the time they didn't offer a heavy barrel in 7mm-08. So, what they had to do was run one individual barrel through their system, but instead of chambering it in 7mm Rem mag, chamber it in 7mm-08.

What I started with was the basic Savage action for $320. I then added a $259 barrel (7mm-08, 26", 1-8" twist), and replaced the stamped recoil lug with a machined recoil lug, for $20 more and then bought a Choate tactical (McMillan A3 copy) for another $260. The barrel was $100 off. No one seemed all that interested in that tight of a twist in 7mm-08. I felt it was possible to shoot the 180's out of the longer barrel at the same speed the .308 was shooting the 175's. I was actually surprised to find I was able to get 2700 fps. I also spent $100 getting the action trued up. The trigger I adjusted myself.

If I had paid full price for all of my components and work, my rifle would have cost just under $1100. As it was, it cost me just under $1k. In this case where I was able to garner most of my own stuff it saved me some money and I actually came out ahead of the "Factory Custom" price. Make no mistake about it though, I had to wait for parts, Savage was in the middle of changing the stock systems (4.27" to 4.4") from double stack to centerfeed. And changing from a non-DBM to a DBM stock was a pain. That cost extra too. Both in the stock and the magazine parts. If I could do it right now, I'd get the CDI bottom metal system.

As to comparing this to a Remmy upgrade, the only thing costing more would be the install/headspacing of a Remmy barrel.


Also, as I see it, getting a "Factory Custom" is a custom not an off the shelf rifle. While most factory custom shops were geared toward cosmetics, the guys in them really knew their stuff and could turn out a pretty accurate rifle. Each rifle is usually hand fitted and assembled.

 

[wbeard]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The custom rifles may be able to be matched in performance by one of 2-3 Savage guns, </div></div>

What's your basis for this claim?

Do you have any actual data or are you just guessing? <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
but they also have nice features Savage doesn't have.

better triggers, ..., custom bolt knobs, sako style bolt releases, pretty coatings, stainless barrels, bedding, etc.

</div></div>

I agree with the intent of what you said...but not necessarily how you backed it up. Check the finish on the Savage LE's and it't top notch. Shoot an accutrigger and you'll realize Savage put and aftermarket trigger in as standard option (they're slick). Savage makes stainless...offer superb laminates, and an alluminum bedded composite... but I guess if you need a custom knob to play with... um ... well, to each his own.

 

[HPLLC]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wbeard</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The custom rifles may be able to be matched in performance by one of 2-3 Savage guns, </div></div>

What's your basis for this claim?

Do you have any actual data or are you just guessing? <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
but they also have nice features Savage doesn't have.

better triggers, ..., custom bolt knobs, sako style bolt releases, pretty coatings, stainless barrels, bedding, etc.

</div></div>

I agree with the intent of what you said...but not necessarily how you backed it up. Check the finish on the Savage LE's and it't top notch. Shoot an accutrigger and you'll realize Savage put and aftermarket trigger in as standard option (they're slick). Savage makes stainless...offer superb laminates, and an alluminum bedded composite... but I guess if you need a custom knob to play with http://cdn.snipershide.com/snipershide.com/forum/images/icons/default/wink.gif ... well, to each his own.
http://cdn.snipershide.com/snipershide.com/forum/images/icons/default/smile.gif
</div></div>


What part of "may" constitutes a "claim". I wanted to suggest the obvious- even if Savage equals the performance of the custom gun on paper, it's still not the equal of the custom gun, nor should it be for the price.

I've only experienced the 93WMR accutrigger. Savage bureaucratically decided to offer a heavier crappier version on the 93 than on the varmint rifles, so I know that unsatisfactory experience doesn't represent all accutriggers, just like I didn't appreciate being told I was getting an "accutrigger" and getting something less than the product I read reviews in magazines about.

I considered ordering the FP10 in HS stock with AICS bottom metal and brake in .300win mag 2 months prior to the release of the new catalog in which it is a production item.

They told me they could do it, but it would cost me $250 more than the dealer price on the item and take 6-8 weeks delivery.

They suggested it was more intelligent to wait for the production gun that was coming out. I thought about it and realized it would probably take 12 months to reach the distributor and decided not to buy the gun.

One thing they probably equal or exceed is the waiting time for the supply of the custom ordered rifle (I'm talking production to distributor in my experience looking for a .338LM HS model at 5 distributors), and that is something they should work on.

 

[JFComfort]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

Are the drawings floating around to cut Savage barrels?

 

[89t295k]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RotARy15</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Extreme454</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I'm now fixin to get another box stock Savage and show all my shooting partners with their $4000 custom rifles, that you don't need a custom rifle to be 'consistently accurate'.
</div></div>

This is how the world works. For all but a select few, the problem is the user before it is the equipment.

I have a 2600 pound, 400hp car that was designed from the ground up to perform. I get passed by powerless POS's all the damn time. I'm just not as good a driver as they are.

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Funny...is it an fc or fd? I Run a Fc with a t72 @ 18-20psi.

 

[RotARy15]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 89t295k</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RotARy15</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Extreme454</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I'm now fixin to get another box stock Savage and show all my shooting partners with their $4000 custom rifles, that you don't need a custom rifle to be 'consistently accurate'.
</div></div>

This is how the world works. For all but a select few, the problem is the user before it is the equipment.

I have a 2600 pound, 400hp car that was designed from the ground up to perform. I get passed by powerless POS's all the damn time. I'm just not as good a driver as they are.

</div></div>

Funny...is it an fc or fd? I Run a Fc with a t72 @ 18-20psi. </div></div>

93 FD R1. Single T04S at 15psi, large streetport, PowerFC.

 

[Dantrom]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

I'd consider a savage!

I'd like to build a 16" 300 BLK out next!!

 

[SIE107]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

I have seen Savages that have shot national records, I have seen custom rifles that have shot national records. I have seen custom rifles that shot crappy and I have seen Savage rifles that have shot crappy. There are two very very important factors. In order to be able to truly get the best accuracy out of a rifle, your ability to shoot consistantly is very important. You should reload, one can not find a rifles true ability, unless one tunes the load to the rifle. So good reloading and shooting technique are paramount to accuracy. Has Savage taken away from the "custom" rifle world. No, but it has increased the ability for people to shoot in matches at a lower budget. And this is good for the shooting community! I know of a lil lady whom is 15 years old, that started F-Class shooting this year. So far she has only shot 3 matches, her first match she shot a clean 450-27X using a Savage rifle. The thing is that it has a Criterion pre-fit barrel on it in 6BR. Her dad does the reloading for that rifle and the load is tuned to that rifle. Her ability is top notch when it comes to shooting. She has as I have stated, only shot three matches this year. Has shot the clean, won her division in a state championship and has already shot a national record. I feel that with the ability for ease of switching barrels, bolt heads and the like truly enhance the attractiveness of a Savage based rifle. The floating bolt head does indeed help with accuracy. I feel that the only thing that is holding back on the Savage is a great two stage trigger. But that is soon to be a problem fixed as well. Robert Chambart and Tom Myers are working to fix that problem and I feel that the sooner the better for everyone. Do I own a Savage, nope I sure don't, I have plenty of friends that do and shoot very very well with them. It is the trigger that keeps me from owning one. As for me, well I guess I could be construde as a rifle action snob, for all my rifles use I use Barnard actions.

 

[Radar360]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

Who are Mr. Chambart and Mr. Myers?

Will the trigger you speak of a replacement to the accu trigger by Savage or is this an after market trigger replacement by an outside vendor(s)?

Thanks for the info. I googled but didn't find .. albeit, I'm not a world expert at google searches.

 

[SIE107]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

Robert Chambart is a rifle designer, ie RPA Quadlock, Swing 2000 and the Inch Action, designer of the CG-Millinium trigger.. The trigger will be a version of the CG two stage trigger. Tom Myers is the owner of X-tremeshooting products and builder of complete Titainium actions and CG triggers. http://www.x-tremeshooting.com/

 

[littlerascal56]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

Now you guys got me all worked up about this "SAVAGE" thing. I have owned/shot some nice bolt rifles in the past 40 years, including the Sako TRG-22, Rem M700's, FNH's and Win M70's. Some were custom rifles, but all were heavily modified by me and fired custom reloads that I worked up. All were capable of better than MOA accuracy, and some were under .5" MOA.

I just bought this Savage 12 benchrest in .308, mainly to rebarrel to a 6mm bench rifle. I might just scope it up in the next week and see how it shoots 155 A-MAX bullets "right out of the box". Have never owned a Savage, but after taking it apart and checking things over...I am very IMPRESSED! If it shoots as good as it looks, I will be a believer!

 

[Radar360]

Re: Is Savage killing the Custom Rifle market?

I think the accu-trigger is a fine trigger in and by itself. It is interesting that an improvement is being worked on by those fine fellows. Thanks for the heads up.