Is Something Happening with Nord Stream 1 and 2 under the Baltic Sea?

Sako man

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    At this point nobody here will touch Russian gas as soon as Germany gets its shit together. More worrying is the very exposed Norwegian oil production. The Russians just sent Norway a message - look what we are willing to do - you may be next.
    That's like an opponent punching themselves in the face right before the fight. Doesn't add up. Germany is gonna be super fucked up for a long time. They relied on us for their mitary, and Russia for their energy. All of Europe for that matter is a hot mess.
     

    Sako man

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    This is near a tight passage in öresund, close to the danish island Bornholm on the Swedish southern coast. North of this, near Karlskrona, is a major swedish naval base. As such there will be very advanced submarine detection systems including seismic/vibration detection systems. You can be sure there is very accurate data on the event. Belief is that charges were placed long in advance by russian subs and/or or divers.
    You mean like how American warships were hovering in that area a while back?
     

    sirhrmechanic

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    I actually seriously doubt it.

    First of all it would be an act of war and no matter how nuts a few people might be we’re not that nuts.

    Second you cannot move that many resources without a huge logistics and paper trail. Nobody and I mean nobody in the defense or intelligence communities are going to sign off on that stuff and put their name on the operation enough to pull it off.

    We certainly have the resources and we certainly have the personnel to pull something like that off. But as much as people like to think that the CIA or SOCOM or hiding under every rock and pulling every string, they are really just big bureaucracies . And no one in the bureaucracy is going to let this happen under their watch.

    Even Gearing up for some thing like this would result in leaks As there would be dissenters who knew that their lives in careers and Cushy jobs would be on the line.

    Look east. Because while we have men with the balls to do this, we don’t have a civil service with the balls to do this. Cheers
     

    BAMAboy18

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    So I read that a new pipeline running from Norway is complete and opening soon!
    It runs by Denmark, pretty close to where these explosions happened. Might want to see which reps and senators have invested in it!?

     

    GreenGO Juan

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    UKDslayer

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    First of all it would be an act of war and no matter how nuts a few people might be we’re not that nuts.

    I agree I think that Russia would consider this an act of war - and they are blaming Ukraine to avoid the need to retaliate against the US.
    Think about the last two years - tell me again what you think our government wouldn't do?
     

    sirhrmechanic

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    I agree I think that Russia would consider this an act of war - and they are blaming Ukraine to avoid the need to retaliate against the US.
    Think about the last two years - tell me again what you think our government wouldn't do?
    I think elements, using primarily NGO's... and possibly driven by NGO's (aka... foundations, billionaires, tech oligarchs), would and could do some very, very dastardly things. And did. Don't get me wrong.

    But an operation on a 200M pipeline, unless someone shows me Mark Zuckerberg or Bill Gates is running special operations submarines, virtually has to come from a nation state.

    You have to look at capabalities and intentions... and will! People forget Part III.

    We have the capabilities. We might have the intentions. We are too 'bureaucratize' to be able to demonstrate the will.

    In the East.. there are places with the capabilities. And the intentions. And the will. This has FSB/SVR and Russian .Mil all over it. Along with maskirova to blame everyone else. Don't discount the Ukrainians, either. They are sneaky bastards and heirs to the old Soviet system. As well as having a nice cozy money-laundering relationship with the people in 'Our Gummint' who you reference above. That makes for a convenient capability run through NGO's... and 'connected' individuals that does not represent government policy and did not access US resources.

    Occams razor here, imho, does not say 'Accident,' But thats just my opinion. It sure as hell points a big neon flashing arrow right at the Eastern Bloc.

    Just my opinion. Meh, what do I know anyway.

    Sirhr
     
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    sirhrmechanic

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    Oh and amazing that this happens days after the world's largest fresh food market (15,000 employees!!!) in Paris burned down. 80 percent of the fresh food coming into Paris and that region of France passes through that market.

    Every fancy fresh restaurant meal. Every bit of arugula. Choice portion of Chateaubriand... it all comes through that market. And it's gone.

    It was interesting to see the commentary for Babylon Bee that said... "Amazing how not a single cricket farm or fake meat factory has burned down."

    Anyone want to bet against me that we are already fighting WW3? But we're fighting against James Bond Villians, not nation states? 5th Generation Warfare is upon us. But everyone is too busy watching Netflix and Cowboys games to notice.

    Buy more ammo.

    Sirhr
     

    sharac

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    There are plenty o various cables in international waters to play with i guess all are open game now. You should download your daily dumps of various ***hubs asap....
     

    GreenGO Juan

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    I think elements, using primarily NGO's... and possibly driven by NGO's (aka... foundations, billionaires, tech oligarchs), would and could do some very, very dastardly things. And did. Don't get me wrong.

    But an operation on a 200M pipeline, unless someone shows me Mark Zuckerberg or Bill Gates is running special operations submarines, virtually has to come from a nation state.

    You have to look at capabalities and intentions... and will! People forget Part III.

    We have the capabilities. We might have the intentions. We are too 'bureaucratize' to be able to demonstrate the will.

    In the East.. there are places with the capabilities. And the intentions. And the will. This has FSB/SVR and Russian .Mil all over it. Along with maskirova to blame everyone else. Don't discount the Ukrainians, either. They are sneaky bastards and heirs to the old Soviet system. As well as having a nice cozy money-laundering relationship with the people in 'Our Gummint' who you reference above. That makes for a convenient capability run through NGO's... and 'connected' individuals that does not represent government policy and did not access US resources.

    Occams razor here, imho, does not say 'Accident,' But thats just my opinion. It sure as hell points a big neon flashing arrow right at the Eastern Bloc.

    Just my opinion. Meh, what do I know anyway.

    Sirhr
    What would RU’s motivation be? Just doesn’t make sense.
     
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    jrhtx

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    Let's see what @jrhtx says. Is it cheaper to leave the pipeline pressurized instead of doing a full shut down even if no one is receiving on the other end?
    Just to be clear, I know no details about the NS 1&2 system. Just US NG pipelines.

    Even if they stopped deliveries to Germany the pipe would still have normal operating pressure to help when you start delivery again. Just close valves at the German (guess) end to be vindictive. If you close the Russian end they could still pull the pipeline pressure down with compression in Germany, until they hit minimum suction on their compression. You really have no way to take pressure to zero unless you blow it down, flare it, or pull it down with compression. Compression only works to a point, like I said earlier.
    With pipelines of that length I would be surprised that there weren't intermediate platforms for ease of operation. Shorter pigging sections, isolation if there is damage, etc. These platforms should have on/off board valves that would automatically shut in event of rapid pressure drop. This reduces your gas loss and isolates repair sections.

    Normally with a catastrophic failure like this seems to be, pressure drop is very rapid. IE I know 45-50 miles of 30" pipe will depressure in a matter of a minutes. The fire may continue for a while due to vapor, liquids, compressor oils. I also have to wonder about the quality of materials used. Are the valves sealing to "bubble tight" specs? Did their control systems work and shut valves? Did someone override the control system and open the valves thinking it was a glitch? Lots of questions.
     

    GreenGO Juan

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    Its Reuters do take it for that but two things stick out.

    1. Buyers in Germany where making nominations for gas.

    2. Siemons claims the technical issues that Gazprom states put the pipeline out of commission, would not technically stop function.

    I will restate. What if Germany and Russia were continuing to trade natural gas, on the sly, somebody found out about it and put a stop to it.
     

    Pok

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    Its Reuters do take it for that but two things stick out.

    1. Buyers in Germany where making nominations for gas.

    2. Siemons claims the technical issues that Gazprom states put the pipeline out of commission, would not technically stop function.

    I will restate. What if Germany and Russia were continuing to trade natural gas, on the sly, somebody found out about it and put a stop to it.
    I think this is a likely scenario. Not saying it's THE scenario.

    Trump called them out for back room dealing when he was in office.
     
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    W54/XM-388

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    I think elements, using primarily NGO's... and possibly driven by NGO's (aka... foundations, billionaires, tech oligarchs), would and could do some very, very dastardly things. And did. Don't get me wrong.

    But an operation on a 200M pipeline, unless someone shows me Mark Zuckerberg or Bill Gates is running special operations submarines, virtually has to come from a nation state.

    You have to look at capabalities and intentions... and will! People forget Part III.

    We have the capabilities. We might have the intentions. We are too 'bureaucratize' to be able to demonstrate the will.

    In the East.. there are places with the capabilities. And the intentions. And the will. This has FSB/SVR and Russian .Mil all over it. Along with maskirova to blame everyone else. Don't discount the Ukrainians, either. They are sneaky bastards and heirs to the old Soviet system. As well as having a nice cozy money-laundering relationship with the people in 'Our Gummint' who you reference above. That makes for a convenient capability run through NGO's... and 'connected' individuals that does not represent government policy and did not access US resources.

    Occams razor here, imho, does not say 'Accident,' But thats just my opinion. It sure as hell points a big neon flashing arrow right at the Eastern Bloc.

    Just my opinion. Meh, what do I know anyway.

    Sirhr

    I would suggest that folks don't assume the clown show we see for "leaders" are actually the ones calling the shots in the background.

    Things can work very well and quickly and with surprising amounts of "balls" when those actually calling the shots need it to happen.

    If you look at the event and look at how it changes the power balance in the world and who or what benefits, then you can logically deduce who might be behind it.
     

    W54/XM-388

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    So I read that a new pipeline running from Norway is complete and opening soon!
    It runs by Denmark, pretty close to where these explosions happened. Might want to see which reps and senators have invested in it!?


    Poland is all crowing about how happy they are the USA blew up the Russian pipelines while going on about their great new pipeline from Norway to give them all the gas they want.

    I wonder if anyone else is thinking... nice new pipeline you have there... it would be a shame if some accident happened to it.... there seems to be a lot of accidents going around these days...
     

    wade2big

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    I think elements, using primarily NGO's... and possibly driven by NGO's (aka... foundations, billionaires, tech oligarchs), would and could do some very, very dastardly things. And did. Don't get me wrong.

    But an operation on a 200M pipeline, unless someone shows me Mark Zuckerberg or Bill Gates is running special operations submarines, virtually has to come from a nation state.

    You have to look at capabalities and intentions... and will! People forget Part III.

    We have the capabilities. We might have the intentions. We are too 'bureaucratize' to be able to demonstrate the will.

    In the East.. there are places with the capabilities. And the intentions. And the will. This has FSB/SVR and Russian .Mil all over it. Along with maskirova to blame everyone else. Don't discount the Ukrainians, either. They are sneaky bastards and heirs to the old Soviet system. As well as having a nice cozy money-laundering relationship with the people in 'Our Gummint' who you reference above. That makes for a convenient capability run through NGO's... and 'connected' individuals that does not represent government policy and did not access US resources.

    Occams razor here, imho, does not say 'Accident,' But thats just my opinion. It sure as hell points a big neon flashing arrow right at the Eastern Bloc.

    Just my opinion. Meh, what do I know anyway.

    Sirhr
    The US gov’t murdered directly and indirectly thousands upon thousands of people under the guise of covid and impoverished millions. It is still being done today. Read what you just wrote while understanding what I did.
     

    Forrest84

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    Who's to say it wasn't Russia? The line was already closed, now Russia can blame others for the gas being shut off. They can say they want to turn the pipes back on, but can't because they've been sabotaged. Pretty convenient if you ask me.
    Russia doesn’t need to. If we’re going to be honest Russia has had the door open to the Ukraine and the west for negotiations and diplomacy this whole time but Washington has not been willing to address the long running state security concerns Putin has been ignored about much less have we allowed Ukraine to choose for themselves to conduct diplomacy with Russia. I’m not even a Putin supporter but I can’t sit here with my head up my own ass I denial of what I’ve seen our country do to provoke war with countless other countries at this point. Our entire foreign policy is planned and carried implemented by psychopaths with deep ties to the military industrial complex and every form of international money laundering scheme known to man.….
    Sorry I havnt fell off on a rant about Ukraine in a few days so it just kind of happened just now
     

    Sako man

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    Russia doesn’t need to. If we’re going to be honest Russia has had the door open to the Ukraine and the west for negotiations and diplomacy this whole time but Washington has not been willing to address the long running state security concerns Putin has been ignored about much less have we allowed Ukraine to choose for themselves to conduct diplomacy with Russia. I’m not even a Putin supporter but I can’t sit here with my head up my own ass I denial of what I’ve seen our country do to provoke war with countless other countries at this point. Our entire foreign policy is planned and carried implemented by psychopaths with deep ties to the military industrial complex and every form of international money laundering scheme known to man.….
    Sorry I havnt fell off on a rant about Ukraine in a few days so it just kind of happened just now
    This exactly ^^^

    Provoke, escalate, destroy. Historically, regimes act this way.
     

    brianf

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    where do they get this?

    KtzMzOOj1QI0.jpeg
    fake news..way to obvious for every radar and undersea listening device

    every sonar receiver would have heard high speed screws in the water moving toward the event

    every military radar in the area including commercial would have a record

    would be plastered all over the news by now
     

    babyguppy

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    The world will have to get rid of more cows, to make up for all the additional methane (green house gases) to backtrack on the Global warming.
    No Cows, sheep, chickens or turkeys... It's for your own good.:poop:
     
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    BytorJr

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    Oh and amazing that this happens days after the world's largest fresh food market (15,000 employees!!!) in Paris burned down. 80 percent of the fresh food coming into Paris and that region of France passes through that market.

    Every fancy fresh restaurant meal. Every bit of arugula. Choice portion of Chateaubriand... it all comes through that market. And it's gone.

    It was interesting to see the commentary for Babylon Bee that said... "Amazing how not a single cricket farm or fake meat factory has burned down."

    Anyone want to bet against me that we are already fighting WW3? But we're fighting against James Bond Villians, not nation states? 5th Generation Warfare is upon us. But everyone is too busy watching Netflix and Cowboys games to notice.

    Buy more ammo.

    Sirhr
    We've been fighting WW3 for a while now. I personally think for a lot longer than I'd like to think; but for sure since 1990. It just went into high gear under Bush 43.

    But, you practically vaporized it with "too busy watching netflix and cowboys." It boggles my mind how people are still watching that football shit and have no fucking clue as to what is going on. My sister is a great example of this. Not that she watches football; but she told me "covid is over" last night. I rhetorically asked "really, who said that?" They are still watching MSM - YEARS after I told them it was complete BS. Same with clot shot...don't get it...they got it.
     

    GreenGO Juan

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    Oldloser

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    This is near a tight passage in öresund, close to the danish island Bornholm on the Swedish southern coast. North of this, near Karlskrona, is a major swedish naval base. As such there will be very advanced submarine detection systems including seismic/vibration detection systems. You can be sure there is very accurate data on the event. Belief is that charges were placed long in advance by russian subs and/or or divers.

    Boat could drop divers off at any time, or an ROV, then they place charge, then turtleback to a pickup point. Could have been there for a week or two.
     

    E. Bryant

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    Russia doesn’t need to. If we’re going to be honest Russia has had the door open to the Ukraine and the west for negotiations and diplomacy this whole time but Washington has not been willing to address the long running state security concerns Putin has been ignored about much less have we allowed Ukraine to choose for themselves to conduct diplomacy with Russia. I’m not even a Putin supporter but I can’t sit here with my head up my own ass I denial of what I’ve seen our country do to provoke war with countless other countries at this point. Our entire foreign policy is planned and carried implemented by psychopaths with deep ties to the military industrial complex and every form of international money laundering scheme known to man.….
    Sorry I havnt fell off on a rant about Ukraine in a few days so it just kind of happened just now

    Sorry, but there was never going to be an outcome acceptable to Putin other than grabbing land and the resources (mainly people) within. This is manifest-destiny sort of stuff from the Russian perspective, not some sort of border tit-for-tat that blew up. The only negotiation was going to be something along the lines of "we can do this the easy way or the hard way". Obviously, the West picked "hard way" because it's not (yet) our soldiers and civilians dying in large numbers.
     
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    BAMAboy18

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    Boat could drop divers off at any time, or an ROV, then they place charge, then turtleback to a pickup point. Could have been there for a week or two.
    Charges could have been set while they were building the new pipeline.
     
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    Oldloser

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    Just you actually type that with a straight face?

    But, how do you accommodate the fact that the item getting blown up was full of explosive gas?

    Yes, I did. We have treaties and agreements that we just can't violate without getting in serious trouble with the hosting governments. And you sure as hell don't want to get in a blue on blue conflict. The Scandinavian countries don't fuck around and can hit what they shoot at and will go weapons free if they catch someone doing something stupid in their lakes. And on top of that the pipeline is critical infrastructure so attacking it is an act of war that widens the conflict, something that is outside the current ROE used by the EU and US.

    There is no oxygen in the pipeline and its in the water at depth. Any energy needed has to come solely from the explosive charge.

    The current thinking is that the Russians did it to deny its modification and use by Norway to ship gas to the EU.
     

    Oldloser

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    Charges could have been set while they were building the new pipeline.
    Russia doesn’t need to. If we’re going to be honest Russia has had the door open to the Ukraine and the west for negotiations and diplomacy this whole time but Washington has not been willing to address the long running state security concerns Putin has been ignored about much less have we allowed Ukraine to choose for themselves to conduct diplomacy with Russia. I’m not even a Putin supporter but I can’t sit here with my head up my own ass I denial of what I’ve seen our country do to provoke war with countless other countries at this point. Our entire foreign policy is planned and carried implemented by psychopaths with deep ties to the military industrial complex and every form of international money laundering scheme known to man.….
    Sorry I havnt fell off on a rant about Ukraine in a few days so it just kind of happened just now

    Nice story Bro.

    There is nothing wrong with Russia defending its borders or people.

    But the rest is made up.

    The West met with Russia and came up with a solution all sides agreed to.

    The Budapest Memorandum was signed in 1994 by the US, Russia and the UK and de-nuclearized the Ukraine and all sides agreed to Ukrainian Independence.

     

    sirhrmechanic

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    Boat could drop divers off at any time, or an ROV, then they place charge, then turtleback to a pickup point. Could have been there for a week or two.
    200 meters is going to be special suits, mixed gas, support lines. Support ship for carrying explosives. No way that is done with divers. Except hard shell divers working from a sub.

    An ROV could do it and those are commercially available and cheap.

    Anyone have gps guided torpedos in inventory?

    Not a diver job.

    Sirhr
     

    NoDopes

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    I thought we established this was only 200ft, not meters. Also, how many times has the U.S. done something without getting "permission" from other countries, in international waters no less. Pretty sure the motto, "Deny, deny, deny... then if caught.. deny some more" is standard operating procedures for any black-ops type work?
     

    KZP

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    I actually seriously doubt it.

    First of all it would be an act of war and no matter how nuts a few people might be we’re not that nuts.

    Second you cannot move that many resources without a huge logistics and paper trail. Nobody and I mean nobody in the defense or intelligence communities are going to sign off on that stuff and put their name on the operation enough to pull it off.

    We certainly have the resources and we certainly have the personnel to pull something like that off. But as much as people like to think that the CIA or SOCOM or hiding under every rock and pulling every string, they are really just big bureaucracies . And no one in the bureaucracy is going to let this happen under their watch.

    Even Gearing up for some thing like this would result in leaks As there would be dissenters who knew that their lives in careers and Cushy jobs would be on the line.

    Look east. Because while we have men with the balls to do this, we don’t have a civil service with the balls to do this. Cheers
    1664395345269.png
     

    GreenGO Juan

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    The current thinking is that the Russians did it to deny its modification and use by Norway to ship gas to the EU.
    558F806D-F12B-4F56-BB29-6145213CD990.jpeg


    That doesn’t make any sense. The lines were damaged what would be well out side of a path from Norway.

    CA48F5A9-913C-4920-9C2A-8DED76F4E7AE.jpeg


    That is by far the most asinine thing you’ve ever suggested. And that’s saying something

    Not surprised you found some reason to blame Russia. Current thinking my ass
     
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