Is Something Happening with Nord Stream 1 and 2 under the Baltic Sea?

MtnCreek

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thats how the world works and why we are still in charge for the last 70 years

if we didnt pull or be involved in most of the important strings we would be another useless nation waiting for its daddy to tell it what to do

...like all of europe
We've abused that and half the other countries are now looking for an alternative to our system. Once that control is gone, we'll be another third rate shithole dreaming about our past days as an empire. At least we'll get to see an end to the days of endless spending/debt.
 

GreenGO Juan

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Another leak that must be plugged.
 
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brianf

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We've abused that and half the other countries are now looking for an alternative to our system. Once that control is gone, we'll be another third rate shithole dreaming about our past days as an empire. At least we'll get to see an end to the days of endless spending/debt.
you can only be number 2 when there is a new number 1.

as we can see:
EU: as we can see they cant handle anything with out the US being big brother
Russia: paper tiger
India: hopeless
China: no one trust them or more importantly their monetary policy

there is no single or group of countries that count more than those 4

saying the US is faltering enough to loose its position, is like saying "fire the head coach"

great idea but you have to hire a new coach, firing is easy...now you still have to get the job done

if they dump the US system, what system are they going to?....thats why they are still here and why they all havnt jumped ship over the last 50 years
 

GreenGO Juan

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you can only be number 2 when there is a new number 1.

as we can see:
EU: as we can see they cant handle anything with out the US being big brother
Russia: paper tiger
India: hopeless
China: no one trust them or more importantly their monetary policy

there is no single or group of countries that count more than those 4

saying the US is faltering enough to loose its position, is like saying "fire the head coach"

great idea but you have to hire a new coach, firing is easy...now you still have to get the job done

if they dump the US system, what system are they going to?....thats why they are still here and why they all havnt jumped ship over the last 50 years
Its hard to build a new ship when someone comes and destroys it, so you don’t leave their ship.

Ww2 made US a global powerhouse. Rinse repeat.

Keep everyone fighting each other, keep the money. Kinda like don king.
 

MtnCreek

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you can only be number 2 when there is a new number 1.

as we can see:
EU: as we can see they cant handle anything with out the US being big brother
Russia: paper tiger
India: hopeless
China: no one trust them or more importantly their monetary policy

there is no single or group of countries that count more than those 4

saying the US is faltering enough to loose its position, is like saying "fire the head coach"

great idea but you have to hire a new coach, firing is easy...now you still have to get the job done

if they dump the US system, what system are they going to?....thats why they are still here and why they all havnt jumped ship over the last 50 years
Rome won't fall because there's nothing to replace it.
 

W54/XM-388

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    if they dump the US system, what system are they going to?....thats why they are still here and why they all havnt jumped ship over the last 50 years

    The new global order the Global Elites are paving the way for, with a new all electronic global banking system that has complete control down to your wallet.

    They are all talking about it, you can read the plans for it everywhere, they aren't hiding it, they don't need to, they are preparing people for it.
    That slogan they kept putting out about you will own nothing and you will be happy wasn't just a coincidence.

    All that remains is a nice global economic collapse, hunger, cold and a good kickstart of serious war, and then the people will be ready to accept the true path...
     

    brianf

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    Its hard to build a new ship when someone comes and destroys it, so you don’t leave their ship.

    Ww2 made US a global powerhouse. Rinse repeat.

    Keep everyone fighting each other, keep the money. Kinda like don king.
    exactly, people think if the US becomes #2 overnight we will vanish from the face of the planet

    we tighten our purse strings and stop playing big brother...whos going to stay #1 for very long, no one

    "Heavy is the crown"

    we make countries pay to play, but they think like us already

    china does the same but they want control of the land to exploit resources and you...france is not putting a picture of Mao over the mona lisa

    we want you to think and vote like us which isnt that different, so they are willing to play

    Rome won't fall because there's nothing to replace it.

    exactly...

    after rome fell what happened....1200 years of poverty

    rome had indoor plumbing yet the kings of england still shit in a pot 1000 years later

    no one is going to let that happen, because the new boss is now the boss of a shit show

    its a lot smarter to be #2 in heaven than #1 in hell
     
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    jrhtx

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    My comments from US NG PL operations.
    Pigs we ran in NG offshore service were sphere's. Round hard rubber type material with a hollow core. There is a tire type valve molded in the body to pressure the core to "size" the pig to the pipe ID. This ensure it is tight fit/seal and clears liquids out of the pipe. There is no way to put anything in that type pig. You could put a liquid in it but the core on that diameter pig may be a max of 12-18"? Our offshore to onshore pig traps were never designed to run cup or steel body pigs. That was pretty typical for offshore GOM design.
    There are some pigs that can be ordered with tracking transmitters installed but I have no experience with them offshore. Not sure they would work offshore because you would have to track them with a boat a sled. Normally you use them for tracking a pig onshore to know it passes specific points. Or locate of lost.
    You NEVER launch a pig if you think the gas flow will be shut off. You do not want to let the pig sit in the pipe. The pig can lose pressure over time and you lose the seal. That is a VERY bad situation! I was tasked in getting an "unknown number" of pigs out of a 24". Ended up 13 pigs in various states of collapse.
    I don't know of any reason you would launch 2 pigs some time period apart (NS1 with 2 failure points) unless it was planned. You always want 1 in and 1 out before you launch again. I don't know the NS flow rates but that pig run was probably several days from launch to receive.

    We typically had a rack of pigs. If something came in from a different vendor (if something was in the pig) that would raise suspicions. We were very particular who our pig vendors were. You build a trust with vendors that supply quality and support you when you need things quickly.
     

    brianf

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    The new global order the Global Elites are paving the way for, with a new all electronic global banking system that has complete control down to your wallet.

    They are all talking about it, you can read the plans for it everywhere, they aren't hiding it, they don't need to, they are preparing people for it.
    That slogan they kept putting out about you will own nothing and you will be happy wasn't just a coincidence.

    All that remains is a nice global economic collapse, hunger, cold and a good kickstart of serious war, and then the people will be ready to accept the true path...
    not so sure

    regardless of the "Elites" and that point of view

    if the global economy gets to bad, all that has to happens is all countries agree to make a new economy.

    if the entire world is a shit show, and no one wants to call in the bank notes because that will cause a domino effect

    they just wont do it, and everyone can go along fat and happy again

    once everyone realizes the economy is fake and really has no rules, its easy to make new rules and not follow the old ones
     
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    BCP

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    I have a suspicion it was Putin to deplete Europe's stockpiles of gas before winter.

    Scrummhy

    That makes zero sense. He can turn it off if he wants to:


    The only options that make sense are 1) sabotage by a western power, likely USA based on that Polish MEP's idiotic post or 2) pipeline failure of some sort. 50/50 between the two.
     
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    Shooter McGavin

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    The only options that make sense are 1) sabotage by a western power, likely USA based on that Polish MEP's idiotic post or 2) pipeline failure of some sort. 50/50 between the two.
    No pipeline failure, this was sabotage and everything points to that. The big question is why is everyone blaming Russia for it. What would Russia have to gain by blowing up the pipelines? There's nothing I can see that they could gain. However, I can see that as a huge loss. Doesn't make sense for Russia to destroy the pipelines. It does makes sense for the US to destroy them.
     

    babyguppy

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    No pipeline failure, this was sabotage and everything points to that. The big question is why is everyone blaming Russia for it. What would Russia have to gain by blowing up the pipelines? There's nothing I can see that they could gain. However, I can see that as a huge loss. Doesn't make sense for Russia to destroy the pipelines. It does makes sense for the US to destroy them.
    Agreed - Doesn't make sense for Russia to do it.. Only a few people know the truth. Common sense says, why would Russia do it, if they have the on and off switch.
    Unless Russia is looking for an excuse to turn up the heat (which they don't). Russia doesn't care what the world thinks and never has.

    Reichstag fire​

    I'm going with post 213. What the Dems say, believe the opposite.
     

    jrassy

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    If only they were smart enough to put some valves on the line when they built it they wouldn't have had to blow it up. Probably designed by the Welsh.
    Just like any IG pipeline valves were bid but during bidding process the valves were Value Engineered out to save costs, ask any plumber😆🤪
     

    navynambu

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    This waterway is highly monitored by hi res satellite footage, seafloor monitors, acoustically for engine noise, and much otherwise. And it's not very deep. Each craft that has ever been in the area for years is therefore well known, by name, flag, capabilites, business there, where it came from and where it went, and in all other aspects. So, you and I may be guessing who did it, but the powers that be actually know, but they just haven't decided to tell us serfs that yet. We may never know, but they do. Instead, they are all chatting, getting their ducks in order.

    Heck, it might have been a lost north Korean fishing boat fishing with c4. Haha.

    Who actually owns or paid for this thing? Obviously this project has proprty damge insurance on it or it could not have been built, probably a policy issued by a Lloyds' consortium. So who gets the proceeds if it's destroyed, that is, who has the insurable interest? The western countries keep referring to the pipeline(s) as "our infrastructure" and threatening a joint retaliation if their "our" infrastructure is attacked.
     
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    Darayavaus

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    So Biden and Clinton are now considered Neocons/Conservatives?

    I think somebody should tell that guy what Neocon is supposed to mean.
    NeoCons are former DNC Trotskyists who cuddled up to Republicans during the 70s and 80s because they wanted world revolution and felt the DNC were pussies and the RNC could be fooled to go along with their globalist expansionist agenda, under the false flag of "patriotism"

    there is little difference between Bush, McCain, Clinton, and Obama/Biden
     

    W54/XM-388

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    NeoCons are former DNC Trotskyists who cuddled up to Republicans during the 70s and 80s because they wanted world revolution and felt the DNC were pussies and the RNC could be fooled to go along with their globalist expansionist agenda, under the false flag of "patriotism"

    there is little difference between Bush, McCain, Clinton, and Obama/Biden

    Remember when all the news media was going on about how bad Trump was for starting a trade war with China and pressuring them and all that?
    How come now nobody seems to be talking about how Biden has been actually turning the screws tighter on China and kind of goading them into let's kick something off?
     

    MK20

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    Spock says not logical.

    The pipe was not supplying unless Germany was cheating which is very likely.

    Putins only bargaining chip is the gas line and if Germany was cheating he was making good money.

    More likely some big player on the Ukraine side had to ensure Europe was not going to abandon sanctions once it really started getting cold or knowing the Germany was cheating decided that had to stop.

    And accepting this serious escalation and performing it in my mind is the result of some corrupt little shit hole saying you better save our ass or all the corruption you have been involved in since 2014 will see the light of day.

    Than you have psychopaths like Victoria Nuland that don’t care how many die she has her war mongering appetite to feed and some unnatural obsession with this useless part of the world.


    I believe this is a very astute analysis. While we cannot know for certain who did it, it was almost certainly someone who wanted to take the Russian gas option off the table for geopolitical reasons before winter.

    Here is a copy of a message to a friend where we were discussing this very thing:

    It was somebody who wanted to take the option of Europe caving to Russia off the table. That leaves you a limited number of people.

    That dive is within the reach, barely, of experienced commercial divers on trimix gas.

    So that leaves you German or Eur politicians who want that issue off the table politically this winter.

    Then you have us.

    Then you also have the Ukranians. Who also happen to have a bunch of money and a hell of a motive.

    Then you have a private actor such as the WEF who wants the war to continue and needs to harden the resolve of the European peoples.

    The thing about all of these is that is would be a big faux pas for any one of them to execute an op like this without the knowledge at least of the op being given to the heads of all the other groups.

    I would give 40% odds it is us, 40% Ukranian, 20% German or other EUR govt forcing their people into supporting the war no matter how many freeze to death, and 10% WEF or similar.

    Or it was China eliminating the ability/desire of Europe to interfere in global matters for the next year. But that is an outside chance.
     

    Darayavaus

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    Remember when all the news media was going on about how bad Trump was for starting a trade war with China and pressuring them and all that?
    How come now nobody seems to be talking about how Biden has been actually turning the screws tighter on China and kind of goading them into let's kick something off?
    because for the media and the political class, who are both owned by the same individuals:

    1) anything done for the good of the USA as a nation is "bad"
    2) any conflict provoked on behalf of the NWO is "good". especially if it's detrimental to the US and patriotic citizens (refer to rule #1)

    remember, these people hate you with every ounce of their being. and if they are pants-pissing eager to start a nuclear war with Russia, despite all repercussions, imagine how ready they are to target helpless citizens who speak out against them.
     

    Darayavaus

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    Well the US will profit at the expense of its own people.

    That money will go to communists while we pay more here.
    how much will it cost us?

    our prosperity, our sovereignty, our accumulated national wealth.

    2020 was the point when they realized they didn't have to pretend or be subtle anymore.
     
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    akmike47

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    I think I figured out who did it.




     

    clcustom1911

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    fake news..way to obvious for every radar and undersea listening device

    every sonar receiver would have heard high speed screws in the water moving toward the event

    every military radar in the area including commercial would have a record

    would be plastered all over the news by now
    Don't tell that to the Qanon disciples. 🤣😂🤣 they'll say you've been "black pilled"
     
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    pmclaine

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    I believe this is a very astute analysis. While we cannot know for certain who did it, it was almost certainly someone who wanted to take the Russian gas option off the table for geopolitical reasons before winter.

    Here is a copy of a message to a friend where we were discussing this very thing:

    It was somebody who wanted to take the option of Europe caving to Russia off the table. That leaves you a limited number of people.

    That dive is within the reach, barely, of experienced commercial divers on trimix gas.

    So that leaves you German or Eur politicians who want that issue off the table politically this winter.

    Then you have us.

    Then you also have the Ukranians. Who also happen to have a bunch of money and a hell of a motive.

    Then you have a private actor such as the WEF who wants the war to continue and needs to harden the resolve of the European peoples.

    The thing about all of these is that is would be a big faux pas for any one of them to execute an op like this without the knowledge at least of the op being given to the heads of all the other groups.

    I would give 40% odds it is us, 40% Ukranian, 20% German or other EUR govt forcing their people into supporting the war no matter how many freeze to death, and 10% WEF or similar.

    Or it was China eliminating the ability/desire of Europe to interfere in global matters for the next year. But that is an outside chance.

    Whoever did it was not undetected.

    I highly doubt that part of the ocean goes unobserved.

    There is no way China is sneaking a sub in there and doing this.

    Whoever did it had the approval of USA, Britain, perhaps France, certainly Germany would know, and I think Sweden may have some ability to know what happens in the local waters.

    To think there is much sneaking in the Baltics ignores 80 years of fucking around to prevent anyone sneaking around in the Baltic Sea.
     

    pmclaine

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    Remember when all the news media was going on about how bad Trump was for starting a trade war with China and pressuring them and all that?
    How come now nobody seems to be talking about how Biden has been actually turning the screws tighter on China and kind of goading them into let's kick something off?

    Where is Biden putting the screws to China?

    They are ignored in all this shit and laughing their way through reading Sun Tzu.



    (Interesting factoid......when I typed in Sun Tzu the first time it came up "Sun Trump" by spell check......not even close on both counts."
     

    E. Bryant

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    how much will it cost us?

    our prosperity, our sovereignty, our accumulated national wealth.

    2020 was the point when they realized they didn't have to pretend or be subtle anymore.

    Shit dude, it was blindingly obvious back in 2003 to anyone who wasn't scared of "terrorism". That was the point of no return.

    I've got absolutely no confidence that the Republicans won't be yet again taken over by the neocons. 98% of this forum would vote for someone like Lindsey Graham in 2024 because "it's better than the alternative".
     

    Fig

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    Russia doesn’t need to. If we’re going to be honest Russia has had the door open to the Ukraine and the west for negotiations and diplomacy this whole time but Washington has not been willing to address the long running state security concerns Putin has been ignored about much less have we allowed Ukraine to choose for themselves to conduct diplomacy with Russia. I’m not even a Putin supporter but I can’t sit here with my head up my own ass I denial of what I’ve seen our country do to provoke war with countless other countries at this point. Our entire foreign policy is planned and carried implemented by psychopaths with deep ties to the military industrial complex and every form of international money laundering scheme known to man.….
    Sorry I havnt fell off on a rant about Ukraine in a few days so it just kind of happened just now
    Because it’s fucking bullshit. Name me another country that needs thousands of miles of satellite countries as “buffers” against the aggression of the West that ain’t coming. This is not 1939. Germany (and the rest of Europe) is morally and culturally eviserated. They’re not going to rise again. We’re not invading. Putin is a fucking moron if he actually believes he has “securiry concerns“.
     

    DarnYankeeUSMC

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    Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Iran to name a few recent ones.
    Because it’s fucking bullshit. Name me another country that needs thousands of miles of satellite countries as “buffers” against the aggression of the West that ain’t coming. This is not 1939. Germany (and the rest of Europe) is morally and culturally eviserated. They’re not going to rise again. We’re not invading. Putin is a fucking moron if he actually believes he has “securiry concerns“.
    Name a country that has been financially sanctioned for bullshit reasons the way Russia has by the west. Name a country that has been slandered by the PRAVDA the way Russia has.
     

    pmclaine

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    Because it’s fucking bullshit. Name me another country that needs thousands of miles of satellite countries as “buffers” against the aggression of the West that ain’t coming. This is not 1939. Germany (and the rest of Europe) is morally and culturally eviserated. They’re not going to rise again. We’re not invading. Putin is a fucking moron if he actually believes he has “securiry concerns“.
    Yet here we are….
     

    mtrmn

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    I believe this is a very astute analysis. While we cannot know for certain who did it, it was almost certainly someone who wanted to take the Russian gas option off the table for geopolitical reasons before winter.

    Here is a copy of a message to a friend where we were discussing this very thing:

    It was somebody who wanted to take the option of Europe caving to Russia off the table. That leaves you a limited number of people.

    That dive is within the reach, barely, of experienced commercial divers on trimix gas.

    So that leaves you German or Eur politicians who want that issue off the table politically this winter.

    Then you have us.

    Then you also have the Ukranians. Who also happen to have a bunch of money and a hell of a motive.

    Then you have a private actor such as the WEF who wants the war to continue and needs to harden the resolve of the European peoples.

    The thing about all of these is that is would be a big faux pas for any one of them to execute an op like this without the knowledge at least of the op being given to the heads of all the other groups.

    I would give 40% odds it is us, 40% Ukranian, 20% German or other EUR govt forcing their people into supporting the war no matter how many freeze to death, and 10% WEF or similar.

    Or it was China eliminating the ability/desire of Europe to interfere in global matters for the next year. But that is an outside chance.
    IMO they are ALL co-conspirators with the WEF/NWO. You will own nothing, eat ze bugs , and be happy or the beatings will continue.
     

    brianf

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    Don't tell that to the Qanon disciples. 🤣😂🤣 they'll say you've been "black pilled"
    i guess you havent seen some of the "conversations" ive had the honor of being involved in over the last 6-8 months

    i dont think im changing anyone's opinion +/- by one post :cool:
     
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    E. Bryant

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    Because it’s fucking bullshit. Name me another country that needs thousands of miles of satellite countries as “buffers” against the aggression of the West that ain’t coming. This is not 1939. Germany (and the rest of Europe) is morally and culturally eviserated. They’re not going to rise again. We’re not invading. Putin is a fucking moron if he actually believes he has “securiry concerns“.

    "Security" is indeed a smokescreen, although I think it plays well to Russian paranoia (not entirely unjustified, considering the past few centuries and about 50 years of largely-unwarranted NATO aggression). This is a different fight for survival, as demographics make it clear that Russia ceases to exist in about 50 years due to its inability to breed enough new Ruskies. Ukraine offers warm bodies. There are likely other areas that will be of interest in the near future.

    Putin being a moron and Zelenskyy being corrupt are not mutually-exclusive concepts, but both the left and right feel compelled to take a side against what they perceive to be the bigger boogieman. That this alignment is roughly 180° out of alignment from a decade ago just adds to the confusion.
     

    Scrumbag

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    No, I still think it was the Russians. I suspect the gas contracts might financially penalise the Russians for choosing not to supply. If there's a technical reason, I suspect no penalty.

    Putin is still getting paid for exporting natural resources to various EU countries so the money is flowing. I think only looking at physical supply and not money flow is a very myopic view of the situation.

    (Plus I'm a European (Welsh, @MtnCreek) Energy Economist so I have a little insight...

    Scrummy
     

    W54/XM-388

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    Where is Biden putting the screws to China?

    They are ignored in all this shit and laughing their way through reading Sun Tzu.



    (Interesting factoid......when I typed in Sun Tzu the first time it came up "Sun Trump" by spell check......not even close on both counts."

    I'm guessing you didn't hear about it much because the MSM isn't saying anything and you have to go to the tech mags and stock reports.

    The Biden administration has expanded the clampdown on selling technology and higher end logic chips and wafer production material to China that was started under the Trump administration.

    This is significantly hurting the profit outlooks of companies such as Nvidia and such that were counting on huge sales of their big data processing accelerators.

    The current administration has also been quietly going around putting more pressure on fabrication tool making companies both domestically and in Europe to strong arm them into not selling said tools to China.
     
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