Is Something Happening with Nord Stream 1 and 2 under the Baltic Sea?

brianf

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I'm guessing you didn't hear about it much because the MSM isn't saying anything and you have to go to the tech mags and stock reports.

The Biden administration has expanded the clampdown on selling technology and higher end logic chips and wafer production material to China that was started under the Trump administration.

This is significantly hurting the profit outlooks of companies such as Nvidia and such that were counting on huge sales of their big data processing accelerators.

The current administration has also been quietly going around putting more pressure on fabrication tool making companies both domestically and in Europe to strong arm them into not selling said tools to China.
i think biden started enforcing those policies as several tech and MFG companies went to the govt showing how info/ip had been mined/stolen

happened about a year ago then biden started talking about it and how it needs to be enforced etc

i believe one cache was from a military supplier like boeing or a big guy like that
 
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Oldloser

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Another argument that it was an accident. I know Russian maintenance sucks.

The one fact that tends to support this is the number of leaks now being detected.

I can summarize:

1. Russia did not take all the water out of its gas.
2. The pressurized gas sat in the line for a long time and hydrate plugs formed.
3. Pressure decreased on one side and the plug got warm and moved.
4. Diesel effect led to the explosion when the plug hit something.


The only rational explanations for bombs:

1. Germany wanted to burn the ships.
2. Poland wants to supplant Germany long term.
3. Russia wanted to stop Norway from taking over the pipelines.

The only ones stupid enough to do it are the Russians.
 
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brianf

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No, I still think it was the Russians. I suspect the gas contracts might financially penalise the Russians for choosing not to supply. If there's a technical reason, I suspect no penalty.

Putin is still getting paid for exporting natural resources to various EU countries so the money is flowing. I think only looking at physical supply and not money flow is a very myopic view of the situation.

(Plus I'm a European (Welsh, @MtnCreek) Energy Economist so I have a little insight...

Scrummy
i can see where you are coming from contract wise, but when EU goes hat in hand because they need supplies that contract would be rewritten real quick

or a 6 month hold on penalties etc

the world knows europe was and always has been weak so someone made the decision for them


not saying its not russia as nothing would surprise me, but if it was them it was done as a misinformation act for his own people

he still believes in the USSR and has no problem with civilian population hardships which is what the USSR was built around

sorry for the cold winter citizens but the evil US caused this by attacking out country... join together again like the old days etc

very easy to control the narrative

no matter what info comes out no one will believe it good or bad, so putins narrative holds true

...still dont think its them though

it was hard enough to get it ok's the first time, now after the last year of russia being russia again no one will vote yes


man imagine if the us was still fracking and pumping out NG...would be so much less drama??
 

BCP

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    Another argument that it was an accident. I know Russian maintenance sucks.

    I'd say 50/50 between Russian Maintenance and CIA shenanigans. Russia blowing up their own pipeline is asinine because all they have to do is turn it off citing safety issues or something (like they have done many times before).
     
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    Oldloser

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    I'm guessing you didn't hear about it much because the MSM isn't saying anything and you have to go to the tech mags and stock reports.

    The Biden administration has expanded the clampdown on selling technology and higher end logic chips and wafer production material to China that was started under the Trump administration.

    This is significantly hurting the profit outlooks of companies such as Nvidia and such that were counting on huge sales of their big data processing accelerators.

    The current administration has also been quietly going around putting more pressure on fabrication tool making companies both domestically and in Europe to strong arm them into not selling said tools to China.

    Most of the capital behind Taiwan is relocating to the US. I lost count of all the fabs being built here. One of my close friends and climbing buddy is a senior exec at a firm that builds fabs. He and most of his team consider the Chicoms to be unscrupulous and idiots and this view is held by the rest of the industry. Now that the Western Industrial Policy is behind them, they are moving everything here. He also said many of the Chicom chips are shit.

    On the AI side of things, that is my background. The software is getting more efficient and the demand for GPUS has moved around with smaller edge devices getting more play than some of the big GPUS. Cloud GPUS have made the need to buy and build less attractive and that has put pressure on the makers' margins as the cloud providers have pricing power. NVIDIAs growth is going to slow a lot.
     

    Oldloser

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    Absolutely. Biden literally said that Nordstream would be gone a few months ago.

    Biden is an idiot. And has a closed mind. Doing drugs for most of your life will have that effect. He did not have much upstairs to begin with.

    At least Obama took the time to listen to the Oil Industry when they reached out to him and he got educated.
     
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    Oldloser

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    I'd say 50/50 between Russian Maintenance and CIA shenanigans. Russia blowing up their own pipeline is asinine because all they have to do is turn it off citing safety issues or something (like they have done many times before).

    I am not saying you are wrong, but the increasing amount of evidence supports incompetence at this point.

    You do raise an interesting question. I doubt the CIA has this expertise. But who has the right industrial base to do it? They could get some ROVs, some ROV operators, and pair them with some former 18XX or SEALs to test some TTPS. The US Navy could do it pretty easily. Looking across the Oil Industry - Norway, Australia, Poland, China, Qatar, Russia - all have ROV operations.
     

    brianf

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    Most of the capital behind Taiwan is relocating to the US. I lost count of all the fabs being built here. One of my close friends and climbing buddy is a senior exec at a firm that builds fabs. He and most of his team consider the Chicoms to be unscrupulous and idiots and this view is held by the rest of the industry. Now that the Western Industrial Policy is behind them, they are moving everything here. He also said many of the Chicom chips are shit.

    On the AI side of things, that is my background. The software is getting more efficient and the demand for GPUS has moved around with smaller edge devices getting more play than some of the big GPUS. Cloud GPUS have made the need to buy and build less attractive and that has put pressure on the makers' margins as the cloud providers have pricing power. NVIDIAs growth is going to slow a lot.
    additionally china made it almost impossible to get money out of chinese banks

    over a certain amount the regional bank manager/director has to personally sign his name to it...which no one is doing

    over the past several years china has slowed the export of wealth to other countries in order to stabilize their economy

    it has always been make money in china and then get it out as fast as possible, because no one trusts the system

    big dollars knew it was happening so they invest in the US, still holding wealth and earning, thats why all big dollar deals with chinese people are always with other chinese people they all know the game

    who buys a house for 5mil all cash/bank with out a mortgage when the rates are 2-3% and they can earn 5-8% if invested...chinese moving money out of china

    they would then send money back home, which was allowed

    china then put a stop and put jail time consequences, because that money and earnings should be "held in china"

    they are actually looking at some big wigs in the us and very nicely asking them to come back, for review



    we have a few very very large suppliers that have up the food chain knowledge
     

    Fig

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    Yet here we are….
    Yea, because he fucking invaded Ukraine! I don't disagree with a lot of the criticism that gets posted here, especially about Ukraine not being "The Good Guys", but lets not loose sight of the facts. This was totally and completely a Russian choice. Ukraine had neither the capacity nor the inclination to invade Russia. This was some sort of bullshit reconstitution of the USSR in Vlad's own words. He basically declared Ukraine a non-nation, and the Ukrainians strongly disagreed. Now he is loosing, and the world is in genuine danger, because nothing is more dangerous than a wounded bear. Yet, even this annexation is no off ramp. I don't see a military end to this.
     
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    GreenGO Juan

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    Another argument that it was an accident. I know Russian maintenance sucks.

    The one fact that tends to support this is the number of leaks now being detected.

    I can summarize:

    1. Russia did not take all the water out of its gas.
    2. The pressurized gas sat in the line for a long time and hydrate plugs formed.
    3. Pressure decreased on one side and the plug got warm and moved.
    4. Diesel effect led to the explosion when the plug hit something.


    The only rational explanations for bombs:

    1. Germany wanted to burn the ships.
    2. Poland wants to supplant Germany long term.
    3. Russia wanted to stop Norway from taking over the pipelines.

    The only ones stupid enough to do it are the Russians.
    Wait so you’re trying to say three separate pipelines all experienced hydrate plug explosions at the same time...

    Lol

    Seriously....

    Russia Russia Russia...

    Edit- Scratch my previous comment this is the dumbest fucking thing you’ve ever posted
     
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    theLBC

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    The Russo-Ukrainian war is no different. Facing a historic midterm wipeout and the loss of Congress, it isn’t hard to see why, with November barreling down on us, the Biden administration would choose this moment to escalate in a way that draws NATO into the war. The point is to rescue the president’s failing administration. Biden, in this scenario, becomes a war president. How much easier and more plausible it would be to then blame the tanking economy and rising prices on Putin and Russia? Easier, too, to denounce Republicans who oppose U.S. involvement as traitors to democracy — something Democrats already do with far less provocation.

     

    BCP

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    I am not saying you are wrong, but the increasing amount of evidence supports incompetence at this point.

    You do raise an interesting question. I doubt the CIA has this expertise. But who has the right industrial base to do it? They could get some ROVs, some ROV operators, and pair them with some former 18XX or SEALs to test some TTPS. The US Navy could do it pretty easily. Looking across the Oil Industry - Norway, Australia, Poland, China, Qatar, Russia - all have ROV operations.

    Small remote sub technology is super common, a friend of mine builds them and sells them for 20k apiece to oil companies. They can go down hundreds of feet and have very strong robotic arms yet they are small enough to carry around in the trunk of a car. But again it's the Russians so could just be shitty maintenance too.
     

    akmike47

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    So is the fact we have a bumbling moron in the White House making sense to you yet?

    “How could he order this? he doesn’t know where he is half the time”
     

    KZP

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    Very strange we don't have any video/photos of the scenes underwater...seems like they should be in the media by now.
     

    MadDuner

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    So is the fact we have a bumbling moron in the White House making sense to you yet?

    “How could he order this? he doesn’t know where he is half the time”
    The moron will just as easily order everyone with a pistol brace to be charged with a felony for owning one.
    It's how you use a puppet...
     
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    GreenGO Juan

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    Very strange we don't have any video/photos of the scenes underwater...seems like they should be in the media by now.
    It took A Norwegian ROV team two days to go a mile below the surface and try to manually actuate the valve on maccondo 252 in 2010 in the Gulf of Mexico.

    They have nothing they want to show.
     

    GreenGO Juan

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    C6698F40-5982-46A5-A26F-FD8C46AC9284.jpeg
    168217C8-0EE0-4D84-8F67-3EC39749D5B3.jpeg
     

    TSI Knives

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    I am sitting here considering all the possibilities of who had something to gain from this. Then my twisted mind said: Self, who else could benefit from a hot war between Russia and NATO?
    Then my twisted mind made an epoch reach, could it be possible for a terrorist state that just received 80+ Billion in Military equipment somehow benefit from Russia (who invaded their home) and the United States (who also invaded their home) killing each other and destroying their economies in the process?
    Yup, it is a reach and actually not worth thinking about, but 300' of line, a magnet and an IED, if a redneck could do it :ROFLMAO:
     

    theLBC

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    I am sitting here considering all the possibilities of who had something to gain from this. Then my twisted mind said: Self, who else could benefit from a hot war between Russia and NATO?
    Then my twisted mind made an epoch reach, could it be possible for a terrorist state that just received 80+ Billion in Military equipment somehow benefit from Russia (who invaded their home) and the United States (who also invaded their home) killing each other and destroying their economies in the process?
    Yup, it is a reach and actually not worth thinking about, but 300' of line, a magnet and an IED, if a redneck could do it :ROFLMAO:
    Lol, they keep crashing shit.
     

    Mr.BR

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    Another argument that it was an accident. I know Russian maintenance sucks.

    The one fact that tends to support this is the number of leaks now being detected.

    I can summarize:

    1. Russia did not take all the water out of its gas.
    2. The pressurized gas sat in the line for a long time and hydrate plugs formed.
    3. Pressure decreased on one side and the plug got warm and moved.
    4. Diesel effect led to the explosion when the plug hit something.


    The only rational explanations for bombs:

    1. Germany wanted to burn the ships.
    2. Poland wants to supplant Germany long term.
    3. Russia wanted to stop Norway from taking over the pipelines.

    The only ones stupid enough to do it are the Russians.

    1. unlikely as means burning down its economy
    2. Polish Norwegian pipeline is a tiny tube with less than 1/10th the capacity of blown up pipelines.will not be replacing anyone. And that tube can spring a leak next.
    3. So you stop someone else by shooting yourself in the foot!?Just how would Norway take over the pipelines? And it doesnt even have the capacity to supply the shortfall from NS1 or NS2

    Top 3 contenders

    US deep state - needs EU on board for endless Ukraine war that will also wreck European economy and usher WEF agenda. US LNG the no1 beneficiary. Unlike in US in Europe governments routinely fall when people go to the streets, in US protests are just a process of looting stores, the government doesn't even buckle for a second. People have zero influence on the elected folk. Also most capable of doing it , not to mention you had underwater demolition teams and underwater drone warfare folk on exercises around 30miles from the explosions that happened just days before it all went bang.

    EU/NATO ( in the past there were organizations like Gladio no reason to doubt similar exist today), folks all over Europe protesting over high energy prices, could force an increase in Russian gas imports, well now that is off the table, suck it up and buy thicker blankets. Ushering WEF and the green new deal agenda,EU commission's power grab over member states continues. Also a string of Right-wing victories by unanointed candidates now 3:0 in recent elections will continue with every next election as the economy spirals out of control, these folks are generally not groomed pedos from US Young leaders or WEF programs like most existing EU leaders and would/will throw Ukraine under the bus in no time.

    Ukraine - most to gain as EU now can't throw them under the bus and make a deal for gas with the Russians, now most of the spare gas capacity goes through Ukraine, but unlikely to have been able to pull this off or at least not without US say so and aid
    Blowing up NS pipelines buys Ukraine lots of time before EU kicks them to the curb, for US MIC that is important as literally weekly billion dollar contracts are being signed as long as the Ukraine war lasts no matter what US taxpayer/voter thinks.
     
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    pmclaine

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    Yea, because he fucking invaded Ukraine! I don't disagree with a lot of the criticism that gets posted here, especially about Ukraine not being "The Good Guys", but lets not loose sight of the facts. This was totally and completely a Russian choice. Ukraine had neither the capacity nor the inclination to invade Russia. This was some sort of bullshit reconstitution of the USSR in Vlad's own words. He basically declared Ukraine a non-nation, and the Ukrainians strongly disagreed. Now he is loosing, and the world is in genuine danger, because nothing is more dangerous than a wounded bear. Yet, even this annexation is no off ramp. I don't see a military end to this.
    What’s loosing?

    Do you dismiss his assertion, and our agreement, that Ukraine would not join NATO?

    Than all the BS that occurred in 2014 in which they had to make Russia the whipping boy for all the fuckery.

    Which they than adopted in our domestic politics.

    I wouldn’t accept another nation shitting on my nation in that way. Our diplomacy is no better than the crazy shit Kim Jung Un is guilty of.

    We are into this shit for 70 billion. We had way less to do with Ukraine than Putin yet here we are.

    Glad to see you are so readily receptive to propaganda…..you sound vaccinated.
     

    pmclaine

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    I am sitting here considering all the possibilities of who had something to gain from this. Then my twisted mind said: Self, who else could benefit from a hot war between Russia and NATO?
    Then my twisted mind made an epoch reach, could it be possible for a terrorist state that just received 80+ Billion in Military equipment somehow benefit from Russia (who invaded their home) and the United States (who also invaded their home) killing each other and destroying their economies in the process?
    Yup, it is a reach and actually not worth thinking about, but 300' of line, a magnet and an IED, if a redneck could do it :ROFLMAO:
    My God man….why didn’t I think of it?

    And here is the satellite image proof….

    EDC1DB9F-EA0C-4EA1-BC09-D268D930BA70.jpeg
     

    pmclaine

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    I'm guessing you didn't hear about it much because the MSM isn't saying anything and you have to go to the tech mags and stock reports.

    The Biden administration has expanded the clampdown on selling technology and higher end logic chips and wafer production material to China that was started under the Trump administration.

    This is significantly hurting the profit outlooks of companies such as Nvidia and such that were counting on huge sales of their big data processing accelerators.

    The current administration has also been quietly going around putting more pressure on fabrication tool making companies both domestically and in Europe to strong arm them into not selling said tools to China.
    Taiwan is not China.
     

    W54/XM-388

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    Taiwan is not China.

    Our political leaders can't actually make up their mind on that it seems.

    The amount of double talk about that from our government is staggering.

    It seems we agreed with China that Taiwan is part of China, and also told Taiwan that if China tries to make facts on the ground be as we agreed they theoretically are, we maybe or maybe not might or might not think about helping them stay part of China but not part of China.

    As crazy and convoluted and insane as that may appear, that's almost logical compared to the amount of back and forth and flipping over backwards and groveling and pretending to be good that our beloved corporations and sports industry and entertainment industry does on the subject.
     

    DarnYankeeUSMC

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    In your head
    Seven months of fighting in Ukraine. Russia has air superiority and how many power plants have they destroyed? Water plants? Any major infrastructure of Ukraine?
    Now out of the blue they clandestine blow up their own pipeline?
    Makes sense?
    The ruble is up almost 30% since they went into Ukraine. They are selling oil at increased prices and above normal amounts. American companies abandoned their business in Russia and were taken over by Russians. None of the sanctions by the west have worked as they were intended. The PRAVDA has preached the complete opposite of what is happening and a majority of the population believe it. Who's actually getting fucked by the sanctions is you, I and the rest of the world. But definitely not the Russians.
    So who would want to blow up the pipeline?
     

    pmclaine

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    Our political leaders can't actually make up their mind on that it seems.

    The amount of double talk about that from our government is staggering.

    It seems we agreed with China that Taiwan is part of China, and also told Taiwan that if China tries to make facts on the ground be as we agreed they theoretically are, we maybe or maybe not might or might not think about helping them stay part of China but not part of China.

    As crazy and convoluted and insane as that may appear, that's almost logical compared to the amount of back and forth and flipping over backwards and groveling and pretending to be good that our beloved corporations and sports industry and entertainment industry does on the subject.
    This govt is not my govt.

    I’ll take a Nationalist Chinese over a commie any day.

    PS Hollywood and the nba don’t speak for me
     

    GreenGO Juan

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    So read something claiming there was around 800,000,000 cubic meters of gas in that pipeline. Current price in the Europe market is around $2,000 per thousand cubic meters

    If those numbers are correct, They’re definitely in the neighborhood/estimates, that is a potential loss of $1,600,000,000...

    Anyone claiming Russia did this to themselves... lol...
     

    DarnYankeeUSMC

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    The PRAVDA has established who's the aggressor is.
    Truth doesn't equal facts!!
    So read something claiming there was around 800,000,000 cubic meters of gas in that pipeline. Current price in the Europe market is around $2,000 per thousand cubic meters

    If those numbers are correct, They’re definitely in the neighborhood/estimates, that is a potential loss of $1,600,000,000...

    Anyone claiming Russia did this to themselves... lol...
     

    Short-bus

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    So read something claiming there was around 800,000,000 cubic meters of gas in that pipeline. Current price in the Europe market is around $2,000 per thousand cubic meters

    If those numbers are correct, They’re definitely in the neighborhood/estimates, that is a potential loss of $1,600,000,000...

    Anyone claiming Russia did this to themselves... lol...
    The volume of one of the pipelines is 1.14 million cubic meters. I don't know what they had the lines pressurized to, but just assuming 1000psi, that makes for about 78 million cubic meters of gas in the pipeline, if it were released to atmosphere.

    I used the formula P(1) x V(1) = P(2) x V(2), and solved for V(2) as the unknown, so V(2) = [p(1) x V(1)]/P(2) Google led me to this point, so it must be true, google would never lie to me.

    Branden
     

    GreenGO Juan

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    The volume of one of the pipelines is 1.14 million cubic meters. I don't know what they had the lines pressurized to, but just assuming 1000psi, that makes for about 78 million cubic meters of gas in the pipeline, if it were released to atmosphere.

    I used the formula P(1) x V(1) = P(2) x V(2), and solved for V(2) as the unknown, so V(2) = [p(1) x V(1)]/P(2) Google led me to this point, so it must be true, google would never lie to me.

    Branden
    Lol

    A representative from Gazprom said around 800,000,000 at the Un meeting. I posted a link earlier in the thread.

    45D28F05-3224-4D08-AC29-0D7A1E35F337.jpeg

    Edited in-
    03162E39-1EA8-4BA3-8BE9-0E469F48ED67.jpeg
     
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    GreenGO Juan

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    At some point in the meeting the pressures are mentioned in bar. I can’t remember what they were but they were well above 1000 psi somewhere in the realm of 150 to 200 bar.

    It was different on each line and varied alot.
     
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    SilentStalkr

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    Who profits from this? Follow the money and you more than likely find the culprit.
    Congress critters that heavily invested in a company that has figured out how to make NG denser therefore making it easier to transport large quantities in containers on ships to deliver to Europe. The US, without a doubt, did this.

    Well the US will profit at the expense of its own people.

    That money will go to communists while we pay more here.
    Exactly.
     

    AngryKoala

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    Congress critters that heavily invested in a company that has figured out how to make NG denser therefore making it easier to transport large quantities in containers on ships to deliver to Europe. The US, without a doubt, did this.


    Exactly.

    I mean there's not much to figure out regarding density.
     

    Bender

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    Another argument that it was an accident. I know Russian maintenance sucks.

    The one fact that tends to support this is the number of leaks now being detected.

    I can summarize:

    1. Russia did not take all the water out of its gas.
    2. The pressurized gas sat in the line for a long time and hydrate plugs formed.
    3. Pressure decreased on one side and the plug got warm and moved.
    4. Diesel effect led to the explosion when the plug hit something.


    The only rational explanations for bombs:

    1. Germany wanted to burn the ships.
    2. Poland wants to supplant Germany long term.
    3. Russia wanted to stop Norway from taking over the pipelines.

    The only ones stupid enough to do it are the Russians.
    9C1ECD37-0B90-4793-B7E3-8C5591F42E64.jpeg

    Ahkshewally.....
     

    cbn

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    AZ
    Whoever did it was not undetected.

    I highly doubt that part of the ocean goes unobserved.

    There is no way China is sneaking a sub in there and doing this.

    Whoever did it had the approval of USA, Britain, perhaps France, certainly Germany would know, and I think Sweden may have some ability to know what happens in the local waters.

    To think there is much sneaking in the Baltics ignores 80 years of fucking around to prevent anyone sneaking around in the Baltic Sea.
    Friend sent me this…unsure of the sources credibility but supports your line of thinking.