- Thread starter TexPatriot
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Id feel more strongly for LV if he sacked up and pulled the feds into court. In a post Bruen era where Cargill and VanDerStok are also in play itd be interesting to see it play out -- he wouldve lost on sanctions violations but anything to clawback shit from NFA.
The dude is dying of cancer anyway, inhaling 100s of 1000s rounds worth of lead and carbon will do it to you.
Shoudlve he got wrapped up for any of this? No. However we live in a world where jim crow pedophile satanists call the shots and I guess he thought his former state sponsored death squad pedigree would spare him.
The dude is dying of cancer anyway, inhaling 100s of 1000s rounds worth of lead and carbon will do it to you.
Shoudlve he got wrapped up for any of this? No. However we live in a world where jim crow pedophile satanists call the shots and I guess he thought his former state sponsored death squad pedigree would spare him.
So, the only question I have is “Are the Vickers BFG slings I have worth more, or less money now?”
I might be sitting on a gold mine of collector items!
I might be sitting on a gold mine of collector items!
Say what now?
Here i go again.
Never, ever, will I buy another WC AR barrel.
I came within hours of destroying an Ultra 9 TBAC because of a WC barrel.
"But you didn't actually destroy your can." No, but 99 out of a hundred people would have.
Bought a barrel that had a bore over 25 Thousandths out of true with threads. I could see it with my naked eye, rolling on my work bench. They sent me a new barrel. Took it straight to my custom gun builder. Chucked it up and indicated. It was out enough to guarantee a baffle strike as well. WC ghosted me on that one, wouldn't even talk to me.
Had it chopped and trued by a real gunsmith.
I dont want any of their "custom" shit.
Larry V? There but for the grace of God, go I.
A friend would have called Wilson and ended the business side of the relationship.
Here's a comment found on another forum from ADCO, a company thats done good work for me and I have great respect for. ADCO themselves is no stranger to ATF's persecution as they recently got jammed up on a bogus charge.
"Larry should be dropped by any firearms manufacturer/dealer he had a previous relationship with.
When you sign up to be a dealer/FFL/SOT you agree to follow the law – “play by the rules”. Yes, many of those rules are unconstitutional, but you know that when you accept your FFL. Running an honest gun business and making a profit is not easy. Lying and cheating your way around the law to make tens of thousands of dollars from illegal opportunities, and taking business away from law abiding dealers is a crime, and should be a crime. IMO, a company that keeps Larry as a spokesman is basically saying “fuck you” to all the hard working honest dealers who sell and promote that manufacturers products."
"Larry should be dropped by any firearms manufacturer/dealer he had a previous relationship with.
When you sign up to be a dealer/FFL/SOT you agree to follow the law – “play by the rules”. Yes, many of those rules are unconstitutional, but you know that when you accept your FFL. Running an honest gun business and making a profit is not easy. Lying and cheating your way around the law to make tens of thousands of dollars from illegal opportunities, and taking business away from law abiding dealers is a crime, and should be a crime. IMO, a company that keeps Larry as a spokesman is basically saying “fuck you” to all the hard working honest dealers who sell and promote that manufacturers products."
I would not let my friend be tainted by association, guilty or innocent…but that’s just me.
Suppose you were one of his co defendents, and he testified against you as a condition of his plea deal, then you would be a victim.
Of course he may just be pleading guilty for some other reason. But if the co-defendants have good attorneys they will be planing their case against Larry's testimony.
Have you ever met BW or know people that know him? I'm being snarky.
From what I gather, you wouldn't be surprised by being shunned. Wilson didn't go from nothing to someone that Chip McCormick told me could open his checkbook and whip off a $M check for an order of frames like it was nothing by being everyone's friend and ally.
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If you're in the mob and get greedy and get caught you're automatically a liability. You know what happens then. Because people try and save their own skin when they get caught by rolling over on others.
I have no doubt LV was any different. Thats why nobody, no matter how honest they are, want that liability in their business.
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We'll keep losing ground on the 2A until we put up a united front and close ranks against BS like this, regardless of any "wrongdoing"...
Where exactly in that statement was there "support for the NFA"?
You left out the preceding sentence. "Yes, many of those rules are unconstitutional, but you know that when you accept your FFL. Running an honest gun business and making a profit is not easy."
Does not sound like support for NFA at all. Sounds like they believe the laws unconstitutional, but skirting those laws cheats the competitors.
No it sounds like they oppose the laws, they explicitly stated that. You can make up anything you like, but it does not change anything. And according to the plea agreement:
"In addition to the indictment, Larry Vickers pleaded guilty yesterday to participating in the conspiracy to import and obtain machineguns and other restricted firearms and admitted that he received some of the imported machineguns and other weapons. As detailed in his plea agreement, Vickers kept some of the machineguns and other restricted weapons in his personal collection and transferred other machineguns and restricted weapons to other FFLs and third parties. Vickers also pleaded guilty to a conspiracy to violate U.S. sanctions against a foreign firearms manufacturer between July 2014 and March 2021, in the Southern District of Florida". Also sending money to Russia violating US sanctions. That is not 2A issue. You support that as well?
You're batting a thousand.
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Hunter is safe because the government is corrupt. Larry fucked around with the government and found out. The problem is that Larry is publicly whining like a bitch. Shut your mouth and move on like real man Larry.
He imported the guns and parts and just gave them away? That is your claim now? He transferred them to other dealers. They were donated?
I'm just saying thats why a business in an industry thats being unfairly targeted doesn't want a felon on the payroll.
I bet if one went back over the transcripts they would find evidence that the other players in this scheme were implicated by LV's. I'm sure his two cop buddies that submitted bogus requests didn't come forward on their own.
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You said it was for his own personal use. A lie. Now you claim he imported all the goods to give it away? That is your claim? And you good with him doing business with sanctioned countries? Giving money to Russia?
I will assume that is a "yes". And your lie is good as well.
Based on some recent appellate court decisions, it’s pretty unlikely that non-violent felons will continue to be barred from firearm ownership much longer. Just a thought.
If I was Vickers, I’d be fighting to keep every relationship I could. It’s not like he has many other options for a continued career at his age.
Until something changes, it is essentially impossible to get gun rights restored after a federal felony conviction.
New slogan for Vickers tactical sling "My sling will help you hold onto a weapon even though I can't" ........Too soon?
He fuckin rolled. 100% took that plea deal.
He wasn’t the biggest fish. Who was buying all this shit he was importing?
Then you’ll get somewhere. They don’t offer plea deals for nothing.
He wasn’t the biggest fish. Who was buying all this shit he was importing?
Then you’ll get somewhere. They don’t offer plea deals for nothing.
That may change after the Rahimi case......4 Boxes Diner get heavily into this on his channel
I hear what you're saying. But at this point in time, if he's going to whine, this is the most harmless to him on a wasted tears basis. If he starts bad mouthing the ATF, FBI, or any other government entity at this point, right before sentencing, he will only be stretching the noose they have placed around his neck all that much tighter.
As was mentioned, it's all a wasted effort anyway. His days of firearm ownership are behind him. I doubt that anyone in the firearm industry is going to want anything to do with him when all of the dust settles from this whole shit show. Simply because there is no upside for them to do so.
Much like that hunting writer Jim Zumbo, he did himself in with his own foolish, stupid actions. The only difference is Zumbo shot himself in the foot. Vickers pulled off a head shot on himself.
That case has to do with prohibited possession by someone *accused* of domestic violence or subject to a restraining order. I saw nothing concerning convicted felons. Is there a case challenging felon possession rights?
I’m aware, which is why I said “for much longer.” If the courts continue to rule as they have in the last few months, he’ll be able to restore his rights pretty easily if/when federal laws dictating that non-violent felons be classified as prohibited persons end up invalidated by court precedent. If that happens, he won’t need to have his rights restored because there would be no prohibition in place.
Regardless, he doesn’t have many other choices for career paths at this point in his life. I can understand wanting to keep any/all business relationships intact. Going after Wilson Combat in the meantime for their obviously wise business decision seems like a poor choice for his own long game.
taint1
/tānt/
verb
past tense: tainted; past participle: tainted
- contaminate or pollute (something).
"the ongoing situation involving Larry Vickers could possibly taint his business partners”
“Siri, I need to work on my dissertation for my psychology degree. Please take me to an internet discussion thread containing denial, oppositional defiance disorder, speculation, questionable judgments, and significant mismatches between words and deeds.”
-Stan
-Stan
So with all your big talk, I'm assuming that you also have a 07/02 and violate the NFA on the reg?
On the off chance that you've deployed your machine shop knowledge on building naughty items, great - but I really doubt that's the case because those people tend to not talk tough on the Internet. If you're an SOT who commits felonies, though - you're just an idiot because that literally involves filing paperwork with the NFA Branch with every single transaction.
Vickers ain't some sort of badass outlaw, he's not some sort of Thoreauvian civil disobedient, he's just another white-collar criminal who didn't think he'd get caught because he assumed that he was operating in a grey area when in reality he'd crossed a line. I'm not offended by his crimes so much as I'm offended by his clumsiness in committing them. Had this been some sort of elaborate plan to take down the NFA, cool; I'd be donating to his defense. But it wasn't.
They use witness testimony to corroborate evidence. It strengthens their case. It normal mode of operation.
Im fighting the good fight brother. Gwinnett PD already seized my cell phone. Still over here getting wasted with my neighbor, cranking out drop in auto sears like its going outta style while blasting Skynyrd on repeat to piss off as many faggy city-bitch neighbors as possible...
Im gonna be the Johnny Appleseed of solvent traps and auto sears.
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Is this the part where you admit to us all ol Larry owes you a BJ and the reason you are in here nutthugging to defend his honour is to collect before he goes to prison.
I would definitely put other people like Bill on blast publicly to show how much of a "friend" I am to the "gun community" after I got pinched illegally running guns from other countries. But you know, I'm the classy type.
Breaking unjust laws should be encouraged.
On one hand... Im glad to be on the side of accountability. My dad always said real men have to hold themselves accountable.
But while we sit in a circular firing squad... if LAV was a libtard, he'd already have a gofundme with millions in there, and a decent size protest outside every court date. Accountability is great, but winning(at all costs) is the game they're playing and we need to catch up.
On one hand... Im glad to be on the side of accountability. My dad always said real men have to hold themselves accountable.
But while we sit in a circular firing squad... if LAV was a libtard, he'd already have a gofundme with millions in there, and a decent size protest outside every court date. Accountability is great, but winning(at all costs) is the game they're playing and we need to catch up.
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No, it makes you a nutthanger for going on and on about your moral grandstanding. Everyone in here knows where you stand on the NFA. Screaming at the choir doesnt change anything.
Larry attacking Bill is a great example of the very thing you claim to be pointing out. Larry going on facebook acting like Bill did him wrong for the very shady shit he did isn't what "friends do".
It's almost like IF Larry had an actual defense he could've gotten the FPC, GOA or SAF to help. But we all know damn well what it is and acting like he is some fucking saint just makes you look like you're overly invested.
He is the one with damages. He is the one who could have fought the case. It may be bullshit that he is in trouble, and I bet a bunch of political elites do the same thing for personal toys, probably not personal gain. But I bet you also pay your bullshit taxes to keep on the good side of bullshit laws.
You're off fighting the good fight
, good job here is your slow clap: 
and the pat on the back: 
. Go you.But this thread is actually about Larry bitching about Bill. Frankly that whole long ass screed he posted just comes off as him burning other people.
FATF would take those letters on dept letterheads and present them to LV. Thats how that works.
Vickers, faced with the evidence and looking at life in prison with cancer, breaks down and squeals on everybody involved, probably playing stupid and downplaying his role as much as possible.
I watch a lot of The First 48 Hours.
Not any that i know. Ive asked everyone if they could get rid of nfa would they? And everyone said hell yes without even thinking about it then laughed at me when i brought up the money side of it
Well.. thats good your pals are like that. God willing, we get more of them. But I unfortunately have to agree with @hlee all the way. A metric fuckton of class 3 dudes are stingy SOB's, that as long as their wallet and investment are safe, "fuck the rest" of us. Not @TheHorta tho.. he's good people.
That is the risk of investing under the premise of government gate keeping. If they change the rule, you’re burned.
It’s almost like the government of a constitutional republic should not be in the business of gatekeeping.
It’s almost like the government of a constitutional republic should not be in the business of gatekeeping.
Proof? Wait I though this was the bear pit, where we deal in supposition and conjecture.
So admittedly it's just a guess. Yet in general people plead to get a better sentence. And I don't know if the Feds are dealing out better sentences to conservatives unless they're getting something.
You could be right. I think you're one of the smarter guys around. Ide like to see it turn out that you're right. But I don't get that feeling.
I assume Bill Wilson would rather not have been put in the position where he had to choose between his relationship with Vickers and his business' good standing.
While Herr mccameron is flailing about on the NFA, a few people have pointed out and it bears repeating: What got Vickers pinched was violating sanctions. Yeah they got em on NFA as well, but those sanctions (even if you don't agree with them) are an explicit enumerated power of the constitution. (Trade Regulation).
And yeah everyone talks a good game about being 2A friendly but I'll forward this:
How many of you are members in NRA/GOA/etc... (even if you hate the NRA--are you a GOA member?)
How many of you are engaged in lobbying or political activity of some kind (I know its cute, I still think laws matter, but its not like we've flipped 40+ states to pro CCW over the last 30 years, or a supreme court to give us Heller, Bruen, etc...)
How many of you mentored new shooters outside of your family?
I once joked I'd sell you guys out for a Klondike Bar. Why? Because you'd do the same to me. I don't think right, I work at a University, I have a big degree, I've worked for the government (those pilots don't seem to mind my contributions) I wasn't born in TX, my beliefs only align 99% with yours. Now go pound your chests, get your t-shirts, and flame away. I've got work to do.
Vickers was no saint, he isn't the enemy, but he sure as hell wasn't our friend either. He was a loudmouth braggart who got busted.
Don't forget the 1st rule of Delta.
DONT FUCKING TALK ABOUT DELTA.
And yeah everyone talks a good game about being 2A friendly but I'll forward this:
How many of you are members in NRA/GOA/etc... (even if you hate the NRA--are you a GOA member?)
How many of you are engaged in lobbying or political activity of some kind (I know its cute, I still think laws matter, but its not like we've flipped 40+ states to pro CCW over the last 30 years, or a supreme court to give us Heller, Bruen, etc...)
How many of you mentored new shooters outside of your family?
I once joked I'd sell you guys out for a Klondike Bar. Why? Because you'd do the same to me. I don't think right, I work at a University, I have a big degree, I've worked for the government (those pilots don't seem to mind my contributions) I wasn't born in TX, my beliefs only align 99% with yours. Now go pound your chests, get your t-shirts, and flame away. I've got work to do.
Vickers was no saint, he isn't the enemy, but he sure as hell wasn't our friend either. He was a loudmouth braggart who got busted.
Don't forget the 1st rule of Delta.
DONT FUCKING TALK ABOUT DELTA.
He already threw his buddies under the bus in his plea.
"According to the “stipulation of facts” attached to Vickers’ plea agreement, he conspired with the co-defendants to defraud ATF “by interfering with and obstructing the lawful government functions of the ATF to restrict the transfer, possession and/or importation of machineguns and other firearms,” in violation of the NFA and the GunControl Act."
Member of NRA (life), GOA, SAF (life), and FPC. I figure I'll hedge my bets by supporting all of them.
I've been on TV! And I started an online gun building forum. So, not exactly political or lobbying... but active advocacy, nonetheless.
Check. Many.
OK. I won't.
no one cares. KysMember of NRA (life), GOA, SAF (life), and FPC. I figure I'll hedge my bets by supporting all of them.
I've been on TV! And I started an online gun building forum. So, not exactly political or lobbying... but active advocacy, nonetheless.
Check. Many.
OK. I won't.
He asked. I answered.
@DocRDS' questions were rhetorical (and make good points), but it's worth pointing out that SOME of us actually do back up our "support of the 2A" with deeds and action that meet some of his criteria.
To stay on topic... I am sad to hear this about Larry Vickers. That is all.
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A poster previously said something to the effect, Larry's service record should be taken into consideration, scold him, but dont throw the book at him.......I disagree 10000%, I hold Larry to a higher standard because of his record...delta. seal team, ranger etc...are the elite, and fucking know better...