You're wrong. When you or I leave the service we go back to being civilians. The only benefit I took was a 10% discount at Lowes.
- Thread starter TexPatriot
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The one guys owns a m16 and mp5. Its similar to the old assualt weapons ban when prebans were worth something. Im sure peoplr with huge collections would be upset but everyone that owns one or two would be pumped they could buy a bunch now. 8ve just never heard anyway say they wouldnt overturn it if they could.
DOJ Abstract on Gun Control as a Victimless Crime...
Not to beat a dead horse, but I ran into an abstract of an article on the DOJ website about the topic at hand. It's a good read. I cross posted this on the original LAV Pleads Guilty thread.
Not to beat a dead horse, but I ran into an abstract of an article on the DOJ website about the topic at hand. It's a good read. I cross posted this on the original LAV Pleads Guilty thread.
Maybe I'm missing something here, but I thought the gun community's motto was "Fuck the ATF". He wasn't trafficking humans, he was trafficking guns that we can't own simply because .gov says so, right? I don't really know all the ins and outs of what he's involved in, but for him to have no support must mean that there's something I'm missing.
He broke the law, and for our side that's a huge deal.. for better and for most times, worse..
Is he in prison now?
Lol.. clearly you ain't read my previous posts. I'm one of the few in this thread who agrees with you..
My point was- "our side"(conservatives), for whatever reason, put a lot of stock in laws, even if they're unconstitutional. Notice all the people deriding LAV as a "felon" now, like he belongs in the same category as rapists or something.
See my previous post- "Breaking unconstitutional laws should be encouraged"
It’s the Fox news gov’t funded “rule of law” propaganda campaign that keeps conservatives stupid as a brick. One of many things that has this effect.
I swear if people would just sit in an empty room by themselves and analyze the world around them while questioning their own thoughts and perspectives, they may find out they really don’t believe much of the bullshit they thought they did. I had plenty of time during the covid tyranny to do this myself. It changed my life.
It really doesn't matter. Because he soon will be for the deeds he has already done. All that remains is a formal sentencing hearing. The only question that currently remains, is for how long?
And considering his current age and health, it really isn't going to mean much either way. In that regard I can't help but feel for the guy. At least if you have some compassion you do. The guy could easily lose what limited life he has left.
And while the ATF is persecuting our boy LAV to the max, they simultaneously are making sure CJNG has belt feds galore...along with other shit that you or I would play hell trying to legally acquire.
Outlaws used to be cool. Now we chastise celebrities that skimp on their taxes. Other taxed individuals aren't the enemy, the king is.
The investigation started with an individual dealing NFA items without a license. The NFA is plainly unconstitutional and there never should have been an investigation to start with. Larry may be insufferable and an unmitigated cunt but what is happening to him started with an unconstitutional law. The law is the law and I don't want to face what Larry is, but crowing about what is happening to him is a serious character flaw.
I think some of us sympathize with Larry and could not care less that he broke a few arbitrary and un-Constitutional laws, but also understand WC's business decision.
I can sympathize with him only to a point. (Mostly due to his age, relatively poor health, and the long sentence he could possibly be looking at).
But the fact remains he knowingly violated several laws on the books, that he knew if caught were going to land him in very serious trouble...... But he went ahead and did it anyway. He gambled and lost.
And now he is going to pay the price. This regardless of how just or unjust the laws are that he chose to violate. They are on the books, and therefore enforceable. He knew this going in.
Now he's going to pay the price on the back end.... And it's always easier to "care less" when you're not the one who is involved.
This pretty much sums up how I feel about it. I think the laws are bullshit, but they do exist so we *should* abide by them if we want to continue our comfy lives the way they are. I don't judge him for trying it, that's a decision that he made and he felt the risks were worth it, but he's finding out how that actually settles right now and I'm sure he's having some regrets. I wish him the best in all of this, but if they're putting him on a pike just imagine what they'd do to us.
Larry is a pretty unsympathetic character for sure.
I for one can't even begin to sympathize with Larry. And this isn't really about the NFA.
The dude is a Delta veteran who was working with a Russian company to help them evade US sanctions, getting paid handsomely by said Russian company, and flaunting the relationship on YouTube for views.
He got caught because he was also working with a bunch of other FFLs and corrupt cops, including a DHS analyst with an import business called Trident LLC (who was the initial target of the investigation) to use fraudulent law letters to import and resell guns that were banned from importation by the GCA of '68. Most of them weren't even machineguns.
Some of these guns were shipped to a non-dealer (in AZ, I think) and sold on the black market for higher prices than they would have brought through legitimate channels (which is what brought attention to import business).
This is a game that most of us can't even begin to think about playing because you need an import business, plus CLEOs and FFL/SOTs involved, and the cash to import the expensive toys. When Larry got himself raided for being a part of it, the Feds only then realized he'd been getting paid by Kalashnikov for years to help them work around US Sanctions.
And knowing that he did all of these things, Larry somehow still expects Wilson to stand by him at the risk of damaging Bill's legitimate firearms business. Larry sounds like he's as a shitty a friend as he is a criminal.
None of those choices make Larry seem like a sympathetic character to me. He's no Robin Hood, and he just comes off as an opportunistic slime ball.
And for the record, and obligatory 2A purity test, the NFA and GCA are both unconstitutional and need to be abolished.
The dude is a Delta veteran who was working with a Russian company to help them evade US sanctions, getting paid handsomely by said Russian company, and flaunting the relationship on YouTube for views.
He got caught because he was also working with a bunch of other FFLs and corrupt cops, including a DHS analyst with an import business called Trident LLC (who was the initial target of the investigation) to use fraudulent law letters to import and resell guns that were banned from importation by the GCA of '68. Most of them weren't even machineguns.
Some of these guns were shipped to a non-dealer (in AZ, I think) and sold on the black market for higher prices than they would have brought through legitimate channels (which is what brought attention to import business).
This is a game that most of us can't even begin to think about playing because you need an import business, plus CLEOs and FFL/SOTs involved, and the cash to import the expensive toys. When Larry got himself raided for being a part of it, the Feds only then realized he'd been getting paid by Kalashnikov for years to help them work around US Sanctions.
And knowing that he did all of these things, Larry somehow still expects Wilson to stand by him at the risk of damaging Bill's legitimate firearms business. Larry sounds like he's as a shitty a friend as he is a criminal.
None of those choices make Larry seem like a sympathetic character to me. He's no Robin Hood, and he just comes off as an opportunistic slime ball.
And for the record, and obligatory 2A purity test, the NFA and GCA are both unconstitutional and need to be abolished.
For someone that is supposed to be a combat veteran who knows better than to make himself vulnerable to an enemy, he didn't do a very good job of keeping himself from being a target.
He was too busy slow dancing with his ego
I might feel differently if those laws applied to everyone.
If I'm not mistaken the closest Larry came to combat was a helicopter ride in Panama.
I don't know but even so, he was trained to not make himself a target.
While I agree that the NFA is unconstitutional and others have done far worse than LAV with little to no penalties, he should still have known better.
If it were anyone of us on this forum pulling the same stunt, we would face the same criticism from the hide brethren.
How about themselves?
Look at my post at the top of the page.. you mean to tell me they can track down LAV's transactions with some backwater police dept, but don't even know where to start for COUNTLESS M249's, M240's, even mini guns going south of the border?
If the argument is "the government did a bad thing without consequences, therefore I should be able to do that thing also" then you can justify some pretty heinous shit to yourself.
Another point of view might be that Larry was an idiot to be in bed with Russian oligarchs (sanctions are constitutional), and also that qualified immunity is a cancer and the people responsible for F&F should be in prison.
Krivoruchko
Биография Алексея Криворучко в Википедии Биография Алексея Криворучок на сайте ТАСС Справка на сайте «Декларатор» Замминистра обороны не задекларировал больше гектара земли на Рублевке. Участок…
www.spisok-putina.org 
I will definitely agree with you there
Knowing how true your first statement is, I don't wear anything like that, because ultimately it's a fairy tale we tell ourselves.
I do however wear vendors shirts and shirts from causes that support Veterans and First Responders, Til Valhalla is one. There is nothing I could ever do to repay the debt we owe to our military members, our veterans, their families and those who serve and protect at home.
Dude pled guilty to working with a Russian arms manufacturer in violation of (Consitutional) trade sanctions. Last I checked Russia is an enemy of the United States.
The fact that he did so as part of a scheme to line his own pockets instead of in an attempt to deliberately harm US National security interests is probably a big factor in why he was offered a plea deal.
And Larry himself has said he understood the consequences of what he was doing. I'll speculate that he just didn't expect to get caught doing it.
Why do you think it's unlikely that his deal wouldn't hinge on being cooperative with DOJ?
I am a bit on the fence here. I always thought the guy seemed a bit full of himself. No real problem with that, just don't expect me to be a fan.
Then there is the entire "shall not be infringed" part.....but. I do have a bit of an issue with what he was doing. I am sitting here thinking the only reason I am in conflict is the 2A part of the deal. If he was doing this with any other product I would have huge issues with what he is doing. So trying to figure out why if he was doing this with anything else, cars, bowling balls....whatever I have a major issue with, but the 2A gives him a free pass......
I think I have come to, Keep and bear arms has nothing to do with importing them in shady ways, selling them in shady ways. So that is where I have landed on the entire deal. The 2A has less then zero to do with it.
I remember reading about the 1938 deal and "machine guns". One thing I read they worked very hard for it to be a tax, and not something that would challenge the 2A. You can still have that machine gun no one is stopping you, you just have some hoops to jump through. Same goes with about any other type "gun". You can own it and shoot it but there is taxes.
Don't mistake thinking I agree with the tax side of things, I don't. But it is a product like anything else.
Then there is the entire "shall not be infringed" part.....but. I do have a bit of an issue with what he was doing. I am sitting here thinking the only reason I am in conflict is the 2A part of the deal. If he was doing this with any other product I would have huge issues with what he is doing. So trying to figure out why if he was doing this with anything else, cars, bowling balls....whatever I have a major issue with, but the 2A gives him a free pass......
I think I have come to, Keep and bear arms has nothing to do with importing them in shady ways, selling them in shady ways. So that is where I have landed on the entire deal. The 2A has less then zero to do with it.
I remember reading about the 1938 deal and "machine guns". One thing I read they worked very hard for it to be a tax, and not something that would challenge the 2A. You can still have that machine gun no one is stopping you, you just have some hoops to jump through. Same goes with about any other type "gun". You can own it and shoot it but there is taxes.
Don't mistake thinking I agree with the tax side of things, I don't. But it is a product like anything else.
Except that the folks who wrote the NFA deliberately set the tax at a level that no one except the wealthiest (themselves and their patrons) could afford it. The NFA was absolutely intended to be a de facto ban for the hoi polloi.
I've read the indictment and seen Vicker's signature at the end of it admitting guilt to the facts stipulated within.
But I'm sure that won't satisfy you either. No true scotsman and all that.
The only place you'll find literal evidence at this point would be at the DOJ, and I doubt they'd let you or me see it before trial.
That's the best you've got? Nice to see you admitting you've lost the argument.
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Don’t think you get valor awards for “riding in a helicopter”
Ah, but that's exactly what I'm saying. (Well...somewhat)
At the very very least, if the ATF doesn't follow their own BS laws, and literally traffics fckn beltfeds to a bunch of meth'd out psychopath terrorists like CJNG.. then those BS laws are exactly that > BS. And null and void. And they have not a single goddang leg to stand on trying to persecute LAV for falsifying some shit to get ahold of some cool rare stuff for the collection and making a little money in the process...
It's been confirmed legit one of the rifles trafficked by the ATF ended up being used by Los Zetas to kill Border Patrol agent Brian Terry. We're any of LAV's firearms used to take a life? The ATF agents who let..no, MADE SURE that weapons ended up in the hands of sicarios, were any of them prosecuted? Or Holder? Obama??
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The thing about Larry is he, and his service record, is very public. The closest he came to combat was a helicopter ride in Panama. It's straight from his mouth. His bronze star is from Operation Acid Gambit. Feel free to type his name into Google.
- Nov 3, 2010
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I know what it is from and the operation he got it from. My point is you don’t get a valor award for just riding on a helicopter. There is a story there, maybe you or I don’t ever hear it, but it is there. Most of those dudes wouldn’t tell you what they got something like that for anyway. They would most likely tell you, “ I just did my job”, or “I didn’t do anything that anyone else didn’t do”.
Regardless of what he says in public, it is likely way different when being recounted with his squadron members that were there.
Whats the mans service got to do with anything? The fact he passed selection for Delta tells me all I need to know...
If you dont think he absolutely was/is a badass pipe hitting mfckr, you're nuts. They dont let just anyone in that unit, you know...
If you dont think he absolutely was/is a badass pipe hitting mfckr, you're nuts. They dont let just anyone in that unit, you know...
Already established.You are the one making unsubstantiated claims about him snitching and being buddies with oligarchs...and keep failing to provide any proof....
.....but sure...I'm "losing the argument"....
Krivoruchko
Биография Алексея Криворучко в Википедии Биография Алексея Криворучок на сайте ТАСС Справка на сайте «Декларатор» Замминистра обороны не задекларировал больше гектара земли на Рублевке. Участок…
You are the one making unsubstantiated claims about him snitching and being buddies with oligarchs...and keep failing to provide any proof....
.....but sure...I'm "losing the argument"....
You aren't losing the argument, you have already lost it. Which is why you're behaving like a child.
Nevertheless:
@AZLong provided the name above of the Russian who had a 75% ownership stake in, and was CEO of, Kalashnikov from 2014-2018. Vickers went into business with the company in 2014. So yes, Vickers was in business with a Russian Oligarch, or rather, in business with a company controlled, managed, and largely owned by one. No one said they were buddies.
And as @AZLong also pointed out, in his plea agreement Vickers stipulates to the role his co-conspirators played in the importation scheme. No one here is making that up. If that doesn't count as cooperating with the Feds, what does?
So you're essentially saying that if an agent, or agents, of the government break a law, rather than hold them individually accountable for their actions, we should all get a free pass to do whatever the hell we want.
Is that just confined to gun laws, or do you want to extend that to everything else?
What about theft? Or murder? Government agents commit all manner of crimes, sometimes sanctioned by corrupt politicians, sometimes not.
The logical end to your argument is about where Wade stands - no government at all, just anarchy.
He named in court documents all the people that he conspired with in all the crimes he was charged. Not sure what your definition of "snitch" is, but it would be in virtually everyone else's.
He was in cahoots with Kalashnikov, and the individual I named is now and then 75% owner of the company, and profited from all of his activity. If your claim is the the Russian Oligarch owner was unaware of the company's illegal dealing with a world known former US special forces arms dealer, I would be anxious to hear about it. Post it up.
The logical end to my argument is: either the law that the gov't agency created and then broke, is now null and void and they have no right to judge someone else who breaks said law(in a far less harmful/egregious way BTW), or the gov't agency itself is now null and void, or both. Take your pick.
When I say "fuck the ATF", Im an absolutist on that statement. They don't have a leg to stand on.
Ah. So he testified that he and his buddies did stuff that he didn't even do. What a guy. I need friends like that.Yes, but just because he said he did it doesn’t mean he actually did it. Vickers is innocent of all charges, but plead guilty to them because, reasons…
I understand that to mean = if anyone charged with enforcing a law breaks said law, then the law is void and shall no longer be enforced.
Anarchy it is, then. On a long enough timeline there's no way any group of people could live up to the standard you've set.
No sir. When an AGENCY charged with enforcing a law breaks said law, then the law is void. And/or the agency.
The same people going after Vickers broke the same law that he did(more or less). But when they did it, it led to the deaths of thousands, including an American federal agent.
Again, they dont have a leg to stand on.
you really want to know the shits of it?
a lot of these guys set up and help train the organizations that prosecuted them. how you like that shit?
i dont know much of vickers...other than the obvious feather in his cap. i am not a fanboy, do appreciate his service (as with everyone else's).
another point, is the laws he is accused of breaking, is in direct violation of the second amendment. therefore, it is an illegal law. yeah, i know what some of ya cunts' next words are "well then go break them and show us how illegal they are". no thanks. i got my fill of full auto bullshit when uncle same supplied the guns and the ammo and i have no use or desire anymore. to be perfectly honest, archery holds more interest in the last 15 years than guns have.
the point, is that in a sane world, vickers really hasnt committed a crime.
a lot of these guys set up and help train the organizations that prosecuted them. how you like that shit?
i dont know much of vickers...other than the obvious feather in his cap. i am not a fanboy, do appreciate his service (as with everyone else's).
another point, is the laws he is accused of breaking, is in direct violation of the second amendment. therefore, it is an illegal law. yeah, i know what some of ya cunts' next words are "well then go break them and show us how illegal they are". no thanks. i got my fill of full auto bullshit when uncle same supplied the guns and the ammo and i have no use or desire anymore. to be perfectly honest, archery holds more interest in the last 15 years than guns have.
the point, is that in a sane world, vickers really hasnt committed a crime.