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Last American Lead Smelter Closing Down in December

KillShot

KillShot

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Minuteman
May 25, 2010
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Some of you may have heard or read about this. The last lead smelter in America is closing down in December because, you guessed it, new bullshit EPA regulations.

I'm on my iPhone so I don't have a link to provide but my question is, how do you all think this may affect ammo prices since lead will now be entirely imported.

If this is posted elsewhere, please delete as needed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
 
You know, I am not a huge conspiracy theorist, but I do keep my ear to the ground looking for coincidental events that might have a correlation. Suddenly, the government placing an order for Billions of rounds of ammunition last year makes sense. They knew this was on the horizon, placed the order to secure a low bid price before the impending permanent price spike due to the last smelter closing. This will absolutely have an affect on ammo prices.
I think it's naive to think the Government is going to come to your front door to take your weapons by force, there are far more sophisticated methods to disarm a population.
As an aside, the "Gunpowder Incident of 1775" makes for some interesting reading.
 
Lots of secondary lead smelters still in operation. Lead is one of the most recycled materials on Earth. JCI, Exide, East Penn, etc.
 
Lots of secondary lead smelters still in operation. Lead is one of the most recycled materials on Earth. JCI, Exide, East Penn, etc.
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It is also one of the most used. This was the only smelter in the US producing lead from ore, so the smelter closes, the mine closes, the suppliers to the mine get the shaft, all the employees go on Snap, Welfare, in assisted housing with free healthcare AND an obama phone. That is no way to live.... wait.. what was I thinking. They are getting a better deal and don't even have to get out of bed.

I think the only people getting screwed in this is shooters. We have to pay more for bullets and higher taxes....
 
I'll have to check and see if there's any left running in the Sudbury area, and whatnot.

As I understand it, the process of smelting lead also separates the gold and zinc from the ore, too. So it isn't just lead that is being affected. Anyone?
 
I cannot imagine that all lead battery recycling here in the US of A is coming the a screeching halt sometime shortly after this closure. Is that Chicken Little I see lurking within earshot?

Bi/Bismuth is a reasonable substitute for bullet cores. It is the next heavier element after Pb/Lead in the periodic table of elements. It has a higher melting point and is harder. But some of this can be alleviated by using compressed granular bismuth for cores, rammed into jackets.

Other alternatives could include the materials composing Hevi-Shot, in a similar compressed granular form.

If you use a wood pellet stove, you know that granulars can be compressed with good results.

For harder cores, such compressed granular forms could be sintered, or bonded with tough resins.

When Our Dear Uncle leaves one with lemons, one must learn to make lemonade.

Call me sentimental, but I see considerable opportunity buried beneath this ostensible problem; necessity being the Mother, etc.....

Greg
 
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Quoted from: http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/commodity/lead/mcs-2013-lead.pdf


Global mine production of lead was expected to increase by 11% in 2012 from that in 2011, to 5.20 million tons,
mainly owing to production increases in China, and to a lesser extent in Mexico and Peru, offsetting declines in other
regions. Global refined lead production was expected to increase by about 3% from that in 2011, to 10.9 million tons.
Increased refined lead output was expected to be primarily driven by new production capacity in China (despite
shutdowns of many smaller smelters) and increases in Italy, Kazakhstan, and Peru. Global lead consumption was
expected to increase by about 3% in 2012 from that in 2011, to 10.8 million tons, partially owing to a 5% increase in
Chinese lead consumption. The International Lead and Zinc Study Group forecast global refined lead production
would exceed consumption by 180,000 tons by yearend 2012.

Closing a single primary lead smelter will not affect lead supply in any significant manner for the USA.
 
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I cannot imagine that all lead battery recycling is coming the a screeching halt sometime shortly after this closure. Is that Chicken Little I see lurking within earshot?
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I cant imagine new battery production coming to a screeching halt either. For every battery recycled, a new one has to be made. Since not 100% of the lead in an old battery is recovered (some is destroyed in the electrolysis process) you need more lead to make a new battery than you recover from an old one.

All the other things you mention are options but think about the manufacturing cost.

Bismuth is about $9 per pound. So a 25 lb bag of Bismuth shot would cost $300 (when you factor in manufacturing and dealer profit), currently 25 lbs of lead shot is about $40. Are you willing to pay $40 for a box of shotgun shells? Steel can not be used in all shotguns.

Of course steel can be used in bullets but that drives up manufacturing costs and you can kiss your ballistic coefficient goodbye, it is not heavy enough to perform the way lead does.

Look at the price of all copper bullets, how do you feel about using them for target practice? That is what we are going to eventually end up with if the EPA starts to regulate lead in bullets which I personally feel is right around the corner.
 
RHunter said:
Too bad you have to pay to ship it here.
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Shipping cost will be negligible. We ship cars in from overseas at a cheaper rate than we can produce them here. Importing from Mexico might be cheaper than mining it here.
 
Shipping cost will be negligible. We ship cars in from overseas at a cheaper rate than we can produce them here. Importing from Mexico might be cheaper than mining it here.
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Lead is a commodity and the world-wide price is set on the London Metal Exchange. Similar to the way Gold is traded. Currently Lead is trading for 2,168.00 per ton at the producer wherever that producer is located. Then you have to pay shipping to get it to your door. You can get 22 tons in a 40 foot shipping container, which is the max loading. If that lead is coming from China you have freight cost in China to the dock, a loading fee to get it on the ship, a trans-ocean fee to the US, an unloading fee in Long Beach (at Union rates), OTR delivery to your Bullet plant in MO. (Sierra)

Before, you could get lead from the producer in MO 90 miles away.

Just because it is produced in another country does not mean it will be cheaper. Quite the contrary. This is why certain businesses locate themselves as close to their supply as possible.
 
What these new regulations have done by forcing closure of the sole remaining domestic primary lead smelter facility is to close the production loop, thus ensuring that the we will be forced to seek a strategic commodity offshore, vulnerable to both foreign meddling as well as domestic contrarian zealotry. Once again we see Avant-garde policies shooting another nation in its own foot, destroying jobs and increasing dependency on offshore suppliers.

Yes, replacements would be more expensive; that is a key reason why lead has been ascendant as a choice for monolithic bullets (.22LR, anyone?), shot, and bullet cores. And while this is undoubtedly just the latest in a long succession of cheap shots at the gun owning segment of this Nation's own population, as well as a kowtow to a "loudmouthed spoiled-brat" (Ok, yes, for the greater good, lead must go, and if you don't give me what I want I'll hold my breath until I faint.) segment of the otherwise well intentioned and well reasoned environmental movement; it represents, most of all, a deliberate short sightedness.

Lead is a deeply embedded essential to industrial and commercial growth (Babbitt metal power handtool bearings, anyone?), and has now been relegated to be in a finite supply status by, of all things, the government decree of an unelected, unimpeachable autocracy. This is a direct blow again undercutting desperately needed hope of achieving an expanding economy, possibly an even deliberate incitement to a new round of "ammo shortage" insanity. I can allow myself little doubt that yet another nation's nose is being amputated in spite of the needs of an entire economy; heck, I suspect we're already well within the world segment that's far enough along the path to 'new world order' emasculation as to make such totally inevitable.

More annoyingly, this clearly and blatantly demonstrates how even a long standing government can lose its way and engage in a wholehearted disenfranchisement of segments within its own economy and its population. When any nation makes war, however subtly and self-righteously, on its own people; it is sewing the seeds of its own demise. Government, IMHO, was never intended to be an engine for compulsory social transformation, of self-righteous discrimination in opposition of Constitution guarantees, or a means to cement and sanctify a power to suppress the discretion of individuals who might demand a rightful, if divergent, capacity. It was encouragement of minority that made this iteration of government achievable. How ironic that this same iteration uses its new won authority as a means to discriminate in opposition to other minorities, like gun owners.

In the event that the contrarian element of our society succeeds in maintaining a dominant role within the world's governments, succeeds in its unswerving assault against the periodic table, and lead remains permanently off the menu; there are still ways to make less desirable replacements work.

Lead is also valuable for its malleability. Many contenders for a replacement material fail to achieve its high degree of malleability. This is why I suggest sintering or bonding of granular forms of harder materials. Reducing the strength of the sintering agent allows the granules to separate and deform in a manner which may mimic lead's superior malleability, and bonding resins can be formulated to regulate such performance in a desirable manner. cores made of simpler compressed granulars may ever serve a similar purpose.

Lighter weight bullet core materials achieve the same sectional density for projectile weight and bore diameter, but also dictate a longer projectile length for a bullet of the same original weight. While this may or may not have aerodynamic benefits, it also dictates a faster rifling twist to allow employment of the longer projectiles that are needed. So, in some ways, like the slow evolution of the AR's twist from 12" to 7" per revolution, we may have already, coincidentally, begun such a transition. This may achieve a needed change, or it may just simply constitute a good start.

Greg
 
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In the event that the contrarian element of our society succeeds in maintaining a dominant role within our government, succeeds in its unswerving assault against the periodic table, and lead remains permanently off the menu; there are still ways to make less desirable replacements work.
Click to expand...

I do agree with that 100% and I agree their are other options, many of which you cite. What will definitely change in that situation will be the manufacturing costs. From the engineering of new equipment to developing the process, there is a cost and a substantial one.

For the most part, shooting is becoming a sport for the rich. From the cost of quality guns to quality optics, many that are struggling financially find our hobby to be excessively expensive. I see it when I go to the range, someone shows up with a 20 round box of ammo and leaves.

I think there will come a point where the average Joe simply will not be able to participate with anything other than a small caliber rifle. Wages are certainly not going up, but prices are. One good thing about lead is, it is cheap. Another good thing is, it is easy to manipulate into whatever it is you want to make with it. It does help to keep our hobby affordable. Most guys can not afford to go to the range and shoot 100 Barnes down range because the increased cost of an all copper projectile, let alone one with a sintered core, which definitely would cost more than a simple lead one.

Everything else you cite is also spot on, in the event of a war our country can no longer manufacture one of the basic components to fight in it with from the raw ore to the finished product. That is pure ignorance on our governments part.

I think what really offends most people about this closure is not only the potential of what it could do to shooting, it is also what it can do to our national security. The nay sayers are just so used to ordering crap from China and they don't see this as a big deal, but the folks with any common sense and those who understand the importance of self-sufficiency are the folks that are up-in-arms over this nonsense.

Focusing on today and not focusing on tomorrow is the single greatest reason we see our country going to shit. It is all about now and many of us know how fast what is happening now can change. If we fail to consider every reasonable and potential situation of significance in our planning we limit our options when things we take for granted simply no longer exist.

Mining, manufacturing, and energy production are three of the most important things that can ensure the survival of our economy and our country. When we become dependent on others, we loose our sovereignty. I personally am not thrilled with the idea of living in a country that answers to another but there are a lot of people in this forum that obviously are... just buy it from Mexico... just buy it from China... Fuck that. Make it HERE!
 
The better portion of my time and attention over the past year has been devoted to undermining the consequences of spiraling shooting costs due to implement and component shortages (and I have the sagging FV250 scores to prove it...). It has been a long project, and development costs associated with trying successive approaches have become somewhat steep, but the current version appears to have overcome the eventual cost and reliability issues that could have torpedoed the project permanently. The process has been documented here in great detail, relating the failures as well as the successes, so the latter may be imitated, and the former avoided. Simple and inexpensive accurizing advice, along with a tested list of useful accessories is also included.

Basically, we combine a rifle (a Mosin-Nagant 91/30), available for prices I have currently seen personally between $149 (a decent dealer) and $225 (a gut yer buddy gouger), a set of air rifle scope rings (Accu-Shot Premium 30mm 3/8 dovetail medium profile rings from Amazon) costing about $12, and a rudimentary 2-7x42, 30mm tube long eye relief scope (AIM Sport, also from Amazon, imported from guess where...) costing around $60 into a Scout scoped LR capable antique service rifle that allows 2MOA or smaller marksmanship employing surplus ComBloc (Russian Spamcan Surplus steel cased/steel jacketed 7.62x54R) ammunition costing about $.20 to $.25 per shot. This setup requires absolutely no gunsmithing or irreversible mods to the original rifle while preserving the original stripper clip loading capacity.

With PPU/Prvi-Partizan Boxer Brass case 150gr SP's, the accuracy begins to approach 1MOA fairly closely, shooting well enough to rival some of my regular factory hunting rifles with factory hunting ammo. Meanwhile, the underlying firearm is as crude and reliable as a sledgehammer, and not a delicate range queen which may never be permitted to go play with abandon out in the wild.

I've built three of my own, so my Grandkiddos can share in my fun. Unfortunately, the elder girl, 17, weighs 110lb and gets pounded somewhat insensate by the Mosina's recoil; so I am currently investigating recoil reduction strategies which exceed the scope of the initial slip-on Limbsaver approach.

At least I'm trying to hold up my end where the spiraling cost intrude.

Greg
 
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Switchblade said:
If lead goes away, tungsten is heavier anyway by 1.7x. Seems to me a substance heavier than lead, with more density would be desirable for making bullets. Who cares if it doesn't mushroom out. Precision counts.
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:) I am sure the barrel life would be at 200-300 rounds !
 
The price of lead from "secondary" sources, ie...reclaimed lead, will increase - bet on it.
 
Another one will reopen when china implodes in a few years and if we don't go first.
We will have to start all over again.
 
The entire premise is misleading to say the least. "The last lead smelter", is far from "The last smelter producing lead". Lead is a bi-product of copper smelting and zinc smelting (along with gold, silver, moly etc.). It is true we don't have as many smelters of any kind as we once did, copper comes to mind. We still have copper smelters and others in the US. Our [USA] smelters, such as the Kennecott smelter/mine in UT, are very good at getting all the metals from a ton of Ore. I agree with all that hate to see our ability to produce something as simple as bullets, requiring importation of raw materials is a bad thing as-national security should be the number one concern of every real American. We still produce a lot of new (from raw ore) lead, as well as recycling huge tonnage of lead every year.
 
I saw this on another site- it's not some grand gov conspiracy; the gov had to actually be sued by someone who lived very close to the facility before they would take any serious action. Let me restate that one more time-

The gov/EPA had to be sued before they took substantial action

This particular facility has been having problems complying with EPA regulations for decades, even before the lawsuit that forced the EPA to follow the law and re-evaluate air quality standards as it relates to lead content. This is simply an example of a company doing the bare minimum to keep from being forced to close in an effort to increase the profits. When the residents decided the lead dust covering everything was too much and sued the EPA, Doe Run's practices caught up to them.

A more important thing to consider is, industry has a way of filling a demand when there is a profit to be made. Doe Run declined to build a new facility... what does that tell you about profitability? If this closing does end up having a considerable impact on prices, you can expect a new primary smelter to be built so they can cash-in on the increased prices. My guess- the production will be made up for in other locations and costs will remain relatively unchanged. This is just not that significant of an event.
 
That sucks, but I doubt it will have much bearing on ammunition. The sad part is that most of the lead was probably already imported to start with...
 
chefcam864 said:
That sucks, but I doubt it will have much bearing on ammunition. The sad part is that most of the lead was probably already imported to start with...
Click to expand...

About 85%

The Doe Run plant didn't make a whole lot of it, they could only produce 10% of the supply needed for batteries alone (which uses roughly 86% of the lead in America) you can do the math on that. Percentages are not my strong suit.

Fwiw Ammunition is the second leading user of lead in America, at about 4.5%
 
Decoy said:
:) I am sure the barrel life would be at 200-300 rounds !
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How do ya figure? Remember, we jacket our lead, so why wouldn't we jacket a heavier metal as well?. Tungsten center mass, Antimony mid mass, copper jacket. Weight is the same end result as a lead copper bullet, barrel life remains the same. Bonus effect would be that tungsten center mass allowing much greater penetration upon impact
 
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Switchblade said:
How do ya figure? Remember, we jacket our lead, so why wouldn't we jacket a heavier metal as well?. Titanium center mass, Antimony mid mass, copper jacket. Weight is the same end result as a lead copper bullet, barrel life remains the same. Bonus effect would be that titanium center mass allowing much greater penetration upon impact
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I guess the effect of having titianium and antimony side by side would generate a "special" unexplained effect on the mass of the projectile! Can you share any of your other secret recipes? For at least a thousand years alchemists have tried to change the basic elements-but failed, you're the man-you've done what none before you have been able to do! What makes it even more astounding-most people with any scientific background laugh at those that "believe" in alchemy, in fact think of them as complete fools-I guess you've stepped up and proved when one mixes titanium and antimony the result is a substance as heavy or heavier than lead!
 
Maybe, but I keep coming back to the lowly .22LR. I am one who would appreciate being able to shoot on our indoor range without accumulating a layer of questionable dust on every surface between the line and the butts.

But the entire underlying advantages of the .22LR's broad popularity could become undermined by resorting to a complex solution for this perceived dilemma. A proper solution would need allow the no clean, never wear out the average barrel, cheap ammunition aspects which currently prevail. I don't see how jacketing our .22LR ammo is going to support these attributes.

But for the broader array of other application in the centerfire segment, combining a Tungsten, Bismuth, etc., core with the controlled expansion design found in monolithic copper bullets into a bonded projectile could even advance current hunting bullet technology, and the same could also be an improvement for non-expanding applications, like target bullets and FMJ.

Personally, some of the more recent published experiments with steel cases (especially those with Boxer priming) and steel jackets, including some of my own, have led me to consider such for modern bullets; and then there may also be aluminum to consider. Maybe using tin and/or antimony as a sintering agent for granular bismuth, tungsten, (finely granulated Hevi-Shot material?), or other non-toxic (lest we trigger another round of this same insanity) heavy metal. Research says that bismuth melts cooler than lead, but personal observation suggests the opposite.

While alchemy has undoubtedly missed its intended mark, it has also, in that same process, laid the foundation for modern chemistry and metallurgy, including the basis for some of the approaches we are outlining right here. So I do not lament its failure all that much.

Greg
 
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It is true alchemy may be a "foundation" of modern chemistry, it is also true that a good bleeding was once considered a great "cure" by the barbers that "practiced" medicine. Tungsten is often brought up as a great substitute for lead (or at least one constituent in a mix of metals as a substitute for lead), almost always- by those that know very little about tungsten. It is true that tungsten is more dense than lead, and has been used for many years by the military (heavy weapons, 20mm comes to mind), but it is far more expensive than lead (Far More), and most of the known tungsten deposits are in the People's Republic of China. It has also has been sighted that bullets of the same weight and caliber have the same SD, not true density. In short, and as an example: a 30 cal hollow bullet made of aluminum with a weight of 100gr will have the same SD as a solid Gold 30 cal solid bullet of 100 grains. But they will not fly the same when launched at the same speed-I'm sure everyone know this. Tungsten is far more expensive to handle in a powdered form than extruded lead, or melted lead, adding another production expense. And unlike lead, tungsten is not lubricious, not at all. Powdered metallurgy/sintering production without a doubt would run the cost of projectiles up, when compared to the common methods of mfg jacketed/lead core bullets currently being used world wide. In fact, many frangible projectiles are mfg utilizing sintering techniques-while they are very good at what they are intended for, they are by no means cheap. Some tungsten (sintered core) bullets with J4 jackets were produced years ago-very good LR projectiles, they were offered at 5-10times the cost of SMKs (or more).
The bottom line is mixing titanium and antimony will not produce a magic substance with the same density (weight) as lead-any attempt to skirt that fact, is stupidity at its highest.
 
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Tungsten CORE with Antimony center mass, and copper jacket. That should fly pretty close to the same as a M855. If the weight is truly balanced it should fly close to the same as a M855 but be a few grains lighter, ergo, faster too.
Not being a metallurgist or even a good student of chemistry(I suck at chem), this seems that it would work.
 
Switchblade said:
Tungsten CORE with Antimony center mass, and copper jacket. That should fly pretty close to the same as a M855. If the weight is truly balanced it should fly close to the same as a M855 but be a few grains lighter, ergo, faster too.
Not being a metallurgist or even a good student of chemistry(I suck at chem), this seems that it would work.
Click to expand...

Depending on how much tungsten you put in the core, it could weight less of a lot more than an M855, as tungsten is much more dense than lead. This has been done for many, many years, 20mm ship board (anti ship missiles) guns used jacketed tungsten core rounds. Powell River Labs in Oak Ridge, TN made very high BC bullets from powdered tungsten-not a revolutionary idea. The problem with tungsten is it costs at least 20 times that of lead (current pricing), tungsten can not be easily cast (see melting temp), and it much harder to work with. Due to the special requirements of core making from a powder, the cost of the bullets is not 20 times higher, but more like 30 times higher than lead core. In short 3 of these high BC bullets for the cost of a box of 100 SMKs. I just don't see it catching on in a big way. Remember-the majority of tungsten deposits in the world are in Red China.
Last note, many people still dig up Civil War bullets, the lead is not seeping into the water system and killing everybody, these were cast, not jacketed bullets. Europe is still full of WWI and WWII bullets in fields and berms etc. But as I pointed out earlier, the "last lead smelter" is NOT the last smelter producing lead. Most of the large metal refining smelters, get all the metals from their ore, copper, gold, lead, moly, etc., We, America, still produce new lead (from ore), as well as recycle huge tonnage.
 
You have to realize that lead importation won't be banned to stop ammunition, because the amount of lead used for ammunition is so small it's almost unnoticeable, despite being the second leading use of lead.

Batteries are the number 1 user by a massive margin, (86% of total lead use compared to ammunition 4.5%) so we have massive allies to prevent such bans, massive allies, think of any industry that uses batteries and there you have an ally to atop the government from doing things.

We are talking huge companies, with huge influence not only in the US but outside of it as well.

Its just not feasible to ban lead importation. Or even make it harder to import it. You would fight an industry with a net worth probably higher then America.
 
VaRandy said:
Do you really think the Govt will shut down smelting and then continue to allow importing of the same thing? It is not about fowling the air but severely limiting the opposition to the inevitable clash.
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Quick answer: YES
This is like asking, "Do you really thing the govt will regulate wages, but allow goods to be imported that are produced by slave like labor? Or, how about allowing metals to be imported that are refined in factories with no (or virtually no) air pollution regs? Of course they will and do, ever been to El Paso? When the EPA shut down most of the Smelters in Arizona, they moved to Mexico-Arizona was for many years the worlds largest producer of Copper, and fair amount of Gold, and Silver (and other metals). The list goes on and on and on. The govt allows importation of all types of goods produced in a manner that would be illegal in the US, albeit slave like labor, child labor, pollution of air/water/ground, chemicals that are banned in the US are still used in places like China. We outlawed Whaling many years ago (thankfully) yet we still import tons of good from one country that kills and eats whales everyday-Japan. So, once again I will answer Yes.
 
pawprint2 said:
Quick answer: YES
This is like asking, "Do you really thing the govt will regulate wages, but allow goods to be imported that are produced by slave like labor? Or, how about allowing metals to be imported that are refined in factories with no (or virtually no) air pollution regs? Of course they will and do, ever been to El Paso? When the EPA shut down most of the Smelters in Arizona, they moved to Mexico-Arizona was for many years the worlds largest producer of Copper, and fair amount of Gold, and Silver (and other metals). The list goes on and on and on. The govt allows importation of all types of goods produced in a manner that would be illegal in the US, albeit slave like labor, child labor, pollution of air/water/ground, chemicals that are banned in the US are still used in places like China. We outlawed Whaling many years ago (thankfully) yet we still import tons of good from one country that kills and eats whales everyday-Japan. So, once again I will answer Yes.
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--
(imho) . deal been made years ago between EPA and china along with the marriage of corporate & government power .
read the propaganda piece .

LMEWEEK-China's 2014 metals demand seen brightening, helped by building drive | Reuters
.
 
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