It would be cheaper than mono or lead.Back to the OP
Could we make bullets out of super cold ice? Chilled down to -375%. They might last logngenough for the flight from barrel to target then melt leaving only a hole in the target or victim/prey?
Seems like I read years ago about a guy who stabbed an other guy to death with an icicle and got of because the murder weapon couldnt be found...non vetted.
They claim that the lead particles are the issue. Which I can see. But the Eagle population has quadrupled since I think 2009. So IMO lead isn't an issue.
Yeah it's important to remember they never really want what they say it's all demonic manipulation.
Yeah especially if they ever get a chance to disarm the police. I think San Francisco tried to do that. I know they disarmed parole officers for a time. One of my friend's brother quit after he lost his third female partner due to violent attacks. She took a beating, he had a knife blade broken off in his chest. More California "sensible" ideas.
I think a lot of this started in the past with Condor's. Something was causing the shell to be thin so the birds hatched early and died. Looks like it was DDT, but the greens looked sideways. In extreme cases I can see it, but thats so rare as to be silly. Not much difference between an eafle and a condor.
Here's a piece from the National Audubon Society about the lead ammo ban in CA for the condors. DDT ban was much earlier during the Nixon admin if I remember correctly. And yes it was due to thin egg shells in ducks and waterfowl. The Audubon Association WAS against windmills/ solar at one point. Now they deem that the birds killed by solar/ windmills necessary for the advancement of "green" energy.
Unfortunately some in the hunting world bought into the non lead ammo push. They SAY they don't want a ban, while continuing to push to STOP using lead ammo. I take the same stance a mechanical engineer said, they're using junk science and emotion to push the non lead idea. Again a CALIFORNIA idea, policy and eventually law.
Sorry I edited right now. Thanks Maggot.
I sent the OP to Hornady asking for comments. Nothing yet.
I've looked for a lead substitute and haven't found any that would be cost effective. I believe both tungsten and bismuth are considered heavy metals and I thought I saw studies about posioning from both. If they even pass a lead ammo ban I see a copper dangerous shards study coming after whatever bullet or ammo company is left standing. Badda bing done, all without a 2A ban.
Hopefully, it wont come to this, but as I said, its wise to have a plan B. I think youre only seeing the glass as half empty. If we can go to the moon we could beat this if necessary. As I said Im not a chemist nor physicist, but science used wisely can be amazing. I've got a new hip and new eye lenses. A different bullet should be a piece of cake.
The shotgun industry has had decades to come up with a solution to a lead ban. Nothing new has come from it.
They havent looked hard enough. Every problem is just a solution waiting to happen.
I'd argue the left has found their solution to 2A.
Absolutely.
The Eagle angle is a crock of shit.
Whining or warning. I say warning. The adaptation that ammo makers have tried comes down to this mono all copper, sintering, and tungsten bismuth. We could look for a bullet to appease the greenies or we can fight this new adaptation to banning firearms. I say fight this new tactic.
EXACTLY!
You know what 's shame? We could've been driving nat gas cars and helped the environment far more than the push towards EV's in the last twenty years. With carbon capture there's no reason not to push for this right now. We were burning excess nat gas because we had nowhere to store it. Old so called "gas guzzlers" could have been converted to nat gas.
I say oppose, first, but have a good backup plan.
I've worked in ammo developement and have looked for an alternative. I don't see any economically viable alternatives. Been looking for at least 17 years. I even looked the other day. No such luck. So if a lead ban comes get ready to double the ammo prices. Copper is 4X's more than lead by the ton right now.
I agree having a good backup plan is a good idea. I'll contend that the private sector looks for the most economical viable method to appease laws while increasing profit margins. That means lowering operating costs to increase margins. so far they haven't found it. And they know that this threat is coming. Which is most likely why no one will hear anything from a larger bullet manufacturer.
At least its less dense so less weight p/cm/3.
I disagree. I hear complaints on ammo prices everyday at work. I used to hunt waterfowl. I don't anymore. The ban Biden proposed is all lead ammo on Federal Lands that have hunting.
I haven't given up on American resourcefulness. I'm trying to redirect our efforts from appeasing to the greenies to changing our tactics towards them. And the acceptance to what I consider is misguided science.
I'll (likely) leave this conversation with this thought.
Try 30 sec. I get you, usually she has on a better top if you catch my drift.May be a good story but she's just too annoying to watch.
The link I was trying to make is they tell you well it is about lead issues with the wild life, when every dog in the joint knows that is not it. Just like the training thing, the closing down where you can train.
I get it. My point is this won't affect just hunters. It'll affect all those who value 2A rights. And those that compete or shoot more will be affected the most.
Remember the solar massive money hole outside of Vegas, focus the sun onto a pile of salt melt it during the day and use the heat at night to keep things going. Now currently closed down IIRC. Birds would actually....ACTUALLY BURST INTO FLAMES flying through this crap. Nope no issues, just fine.
You don't have to leave. I appreciate the thoughtful discussion. My point is the bullet industry has been looking for a solution long before the ban in CA. And no one has come up with a cheaper alternative. If you have a cheaper alternative I'm all ears. A cheaper alternative would sell big time. The one who finds it would be way ahead of the whole market. And why should we be forced to shoot non lead ammo wen the science doesn't really add up? I say windmills, solar plants, and everyday cars kills far more bird and wildlife than hunting with lead ammo.
Yup I think the plant workers call them "streamers".
abcnews.go.com 
