Latest gun rights attack.

[Holliday]

Oh, I'm for the constitution all the way, but that's not the issue. The issue is that 2a advocates seem to only frame the issues of gun usage in the absolute language of a constitutional right. This approach induces the other side to consider regulations like that cited by the OP which erode the right. Tactically, it would be better to change the conversation - recognize the issue and offer alternatives.

As to your question, I live in Virginia.

This post (and your previous one) is EXACTLY what I am talking about. With road maps such as England, Australia, California, NY , Connecticut etc. it is lunacy to purport that if we cede ground the anti-2A Marxist Democrats will be assuaged. How many places in this country can you not even carry a 3 1/2 inch pocket knife for fear of arrest.

Bloomberg’s machine is become a freight train and it is gaining momentum In California you can’t order ammo online nor purchase it without a background check now. Want a newer handgun , well most new handguns are not on California’s “approved list” . Guns like the Gen 4 & 5 Glock.

Bloomberg’s machine purports itself as a supporter of 2A and “reasonable gun control”. Yet they staunchly oppose any reasonable gun rights from our side like HPA and National CCW Reciprocity.

Make no mistake. These groups want all our guns, and talk of appeasement and division within our ranks is all part of the master plan. A sizable group of gun owners (like my brother) will fall for it every time. We also pretend that while holes are shot in our boat in states like California, if we just move to the other side we will not sink with them.

To say we have not offered solutions is disengenious at best and parrots CNN. We have. Our solutions to mass shhoting are as follows.

Shoot back -OFTEN!
Most importantly STOP MAKING THESE ASSHOLE FAMOUS. The gun is simply a megaphone.

 

[fastgun]

Parents need to take back their children start teaching some morals and stop letting them be so desensitized by video games and movies of killing.

 

[Alphatreedog]

We need to start following their lead by coming together and sticking together strength in numbers and not to yield to their will anymore. Way too much has already been given up the National Firearms Act of 68 86 89 have all given too much of our rights away and the truth is they will never be happy until we are subjugated like Australia and Great Britain

Never gonna happen . Most gun owners can't be bothered . I tried to put a bus trip together for a 2A rally in Harrisburg , Pa and only one guy out of thirty asked showed interest . I went to a NJ rally and only 500 people . The same with Pa . Mother fuckers will burn a vacation day to pick up a gun but not to keep the collection .
We get what we deserve because the vast majority wont1 get off their dead asses .

 

[fastgun]

Never gonna happen . Most gun owners can't be bothered . I tried to put a bus trip together for a 2A rally in Harrisburg , Pa and only one guy out of thirty asked showed interest . I went to a NJ rally and only 500 people . The same with Pa . Mother fuckers will burn a vacation day to pick up a gun but not to keep the collection .
We get what we deserve because the vast majority wont1 get off their dead asses .

I agree with you 100% for the life of me I can't understand why us as Shooters can pull it together I've been in the Firearms business for about 25 years and the customers that came in I try to discuss it with them and I can understand their attitude towards it especially since their Shooters and involved in the sport. I tried to gather people to go down to Annapolis but like you people talk about it we're interested but would never take the time to show up and show solidarity for what's going on I've Been Under Siege in Maryland for years and even here they seem like they or complacent about it and think that they're safe and it will never happen here

 

[fastgun]

Another sad thing this year down in Annapolis they were holding Patriot Pickett's the Maryland shall issue Organization for the second amendment rights and why expressing their First Amendment right they had their Second Amendment right taken away when they were arrested and it was for stepping off the sidewalk

 

[Former0302]

Yes, true compromise is a give and take, but compromise to a liberal is "well, if you give me this then I'll let you keep SOME of what you have...for now..." Their "compromise" is holding back from an all out gun grab. I wish they would just be honest and go for it, so we can put this to rest.

We need to collectively take the same approach and hold fast against ALL encroachment, or we suffer the fate of the ever shrinking definition of our 2A right...or we have to literally fight for it.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Never gonna happen . Most gun owners can't be bothered . I tried to put a bus trip together for a 2A rally in Harrisburg , Pa and only one guy out of thirty asked showed interest . I went to a NJ rally and only 500 people . The same with Pa . Mother fuckers will burn a vacation day to pick up a gun but not to keep the collection .
We get what we deserve because the vast majority wont1 get off their dead asses .

I don't personally see that "protesting" or "marching" is all that effective.
Those that hate you will just ignore you anyways. It's only something for the Media to put on their news.
I personally feel that sending money the right places, voting the right way in both primaries and elections as well as regularly calling the congress critter for my area and my local state representatives does a fair bit more.
In addition to supporting both national and local gun & knife rights groups and making contributions as I think are needed to those that come out in support of the 2nd Amendment.

 

[Former0302]

Did it take their 2A rights away? That wasn't a felony...

But it was clearly politically motivated harassment.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Did it take their 2A rights away? That wasn't a felony...
But it was clearly politically motivated harassment.

Let me guess if they had been Communists or Antifa thugs the "Law enforcment" wouldn't have bothered them......

 

[deersniper]

goatboy wants more "conversation". The problem is that every time the conversation drifts to "compromise" and only one side compromises. It's a fucking joke. Compromise is when both sides give up a little but gains some also. The reality is that the 2A says shall not be infringed. Where do you believe "compromise" is insinuated? Our problem is the people that we elect to represent us in Washington. Those are the cock suckers that have compromised our rights. The sad fact is that they have done so without repercussions .
These are the same POS's that are driving the separation/divisions pushing towards what many believe to be another civil war. They are doing so because there's no repercussions to their actions. Think about it. How many politicians are ever killed/injured in civil wars?

I think army jerry and some others might make sure a few politicians/elites feel the repercussions in a civil war

 

[fastgun]

Well the action itself actually stepping off of the curve where you were supposed to be wasn't a felony but the Golden Rule charge of resisting always pops up and that tends to be a felony. and it was definitely politically motivated because the Senate was in session hearing gun laws and proposing bill and as in Maryland it's always done under for perception of Public Safety that they enact these unconstitutional laws

 

[Sniperstud]

Parents need to take back their children start teaching some morals and stop letting them be so desensitized by video games and movies of killing.

I agree with part of this statement. Parents do need to take back their children and teach morals. This is why my children are homeschooled and why we are very involved in church. However, I don’t agree completely with the statement about video games and movies.

I do carefully control my children’s access to and time spent participating in these activities. I preview movies and games and don’t allow content that glorifies drugs, sex or criminal behavior, but movies that portray violence in the proper context, and games that teach tactics, with graphic content turned off, are useful I believe. These types of games are derived from the tactical simulators used by military and law enforcement to this day. I take my kids shooting and I teach them tactics, which I believe are reinforced by limited use of carefully selected games.

Violent movies do indeed desensitize people to violence. However, when carefully chosen to be devoid of the inappropriate content mentioned above, they can be useful. I don’t want my children to be so insulated from the world that they freeze when confronted with violence. I hope my instruction, along with limited use of these tools, will enable them to recognize the need for a violent response, and retain the ability to carry it out without hesitation.

All violence is not wrong. Violence used to defend one’s country, home, self or others is righteous, and, I believe, a necessary skill. Even killing folks is okay, as long as you kill the right folks for the right reasons.

 

[goatboy]

I think you're a fucking troll

Constitutional carry would end mass shootings/criminals commuting crimes with guns.

You and your statist brethren can't have that though. Can't let the little people see they don't need .gov telling them what to do and when to do it and being the only protection.

.gov creates a mess then idiots like yourself want more .gov to fix it. Ie student loans/healthcare/banking/etc/etc/etc

All right, you opened it.

Fuck you too.

And that's the problem. Conversation over.

Read my questions and comments. Prevailng on this issue is about standing way the fuck firm on 2a and pointing to other remedies. Mental health, prosecuting gun crimes extensively, etc are where the dialogue needs to go.

Sadly the dialog here isn't about remedy or recognition that there are issues, it's head in the sand bullshit. I lived in England when they passed gun regs and banned dangerous dogs. It was shocking. I'm full aware that 2a is a major hurdle but I'm not stupid enough to believe that laws written by men can't be rewritten.

 

[fastgun]

I agree with part of this statement. Parents do need to take back their children and teach morals. This is why my children are homeschooled and why we are very involved in church. However, I don’t agree completely with the statement about video games and movies.

I do carefully control my children’s access to and time spent participating in these activities. I preview movies and games and don’t allow content that glorifies drugs, sex or criminal behavior, but movies that portray violence in the proper context, and games that teach tactics, with graphic content turned off, are useful I believe. These types of games are derived from the tactical simulators used by military and law enforcement to this day. I take my kids shooting and I teach them tactics, which I believe are reinforced by limited use of carefully selected games.

Violent movies do indeed desensitize people to violence. However, when carefully chosen to be devoid of the inappropriate content mentioned above, they can be useful. I don’t want my children to be so insulated from the world that they freeze when confronted with violence. I hope my instruction, along with limited use of these tools, will enable them to recognize the need for a violent response, and retain the ability to carry it out without hesitation.

All violence is not wrong. Violence used to defend one’s country, home, self or others is righteous, and, I believe, a necessary skill. Even killing folks is okay, as long as you kill the right folks for the right reasons.

you are 100% right I wish I had stated it like you have and I'm glad that you are involved with your children ,but a lot of people nowadays tend to take the video games and movies as there babysitters.

 

[Veer_G]

All right, you opened it.

Fuck you too.

And that's the problem. Conversation over.

Read my questions and comments. Prevailng on this issue is about standing way the fuck firm on 2a and pointing to other remedies. Mental health, prosecuting gun crimes extensively, etc are where the dialogue needs to go.

Sadly the dialog here isn't about remedy or recognition that there are issues, it's head in the sand bullshit. I lived in England when they passed gun regs and banned dangerous dogs. It was shocking. I'm full aware that 2a is a major hurdle but I'm not stupid enough to believe that laws written by men can't be rewritten.

You're either duller than kindergarten scissors, or too desperately determined to push an agenda that is anathema to us.

2A is beyond law. It's the credential through which the Federal government derives its authority to govern from a people only conditionally acquiescent, a recognition of the natural right and ability of man to self-defense, given to him by a kind and benevolent Creator. It's a grenade-pin that Federal government removes only at the peril of changing the underlying understanding of the nature of the assent of the governed and suffering the possible consequences thereof.

None of us here have the patience any more for word-games with Liberal apologists and faux "Gun Guys." These incursions always end badly.

 

[Mwalex]

goatboy wants more "conversation". The problem is that every time the conversation drifts to "compromise" and only one side compromises. It's a fucking joke. Compromise is when both sides give up a little but gains some also. The reality is that the 2A says shall not be infringed. Where do you believe "compromise" is insinuated? Our problem is the people that we elect to represent us in Washington. Those are the cock suckers that have compromised our rights. The sad fact is that they have done so without repercussions .
These are the same POS's that are driving the separation/divisions pushing towards what many believe to be another civil war. They are doing so because there's no repercussions to their actions. Think about it. How many politicians are ever killed/injured in civil wars?

I remember there was this one time when a lot of politicians had their heads lopped off after the civil war was over.

 

[Rthur]

All right, you opened it.

Fuck you too.

And that's the problem. Conversation over.

Read my questions and comments. Prevailng on this issue is about standing way the fuck firm on 2a and pointing to other remedies. Mental health, prosecuting gun crimes extensively, etc are where the dialogue needs to go.

Sadly the dialog here isn't about remedy or recognition that there are issues, it's head in the sand bullshit. I lived in England when they passed gun regs and banned dangerous dogs. It was shocking. I'm full aware that 2a is a major hurdle but I'm not stupid enough to believe that laws written by men can't be rewritten.

The reason our founding fathers called them inalienable rights is to supersede any and all man made bullshit about our rights.
As we discuss these rights we aren't even interested in giving .0001 of an inch.
Only our complacency can allow the power hungry to claim "removal" of these rights.

R

 

[goatboy]

You're either duller than kindergarten scissors, or too desperately determined to push an agenda that is anathema to us.

2A is beyond law. It's the credential through which the Federal government derives its authority to govern from a people only conditionally acquiescent, a recognition of the natural right and ability of man to self-defense, given to him by a kind and benevolent Creator. It's a grenade-pin that Federal government removes only at the peril of changing the underlying understanding of the nature of the assent of the governed and suffering the possible consequences thereof.

None of us here have the patience any more for word-games with Liberal apologists and faux "Gun Guys." These incursions always end badly.

Actually, I'm none of those things, but I'll agree that patience is ending on this discussion.

So, here's my thought. 2a gives us the right as long as it is upheld, that's a fact. Guns are used for bad shit and I do not apologize for it. As a country, we need to have more guts to stick up for the right and punish its miss-use. Taking guns or anything from the law abiding because of misuse by the lawless is no response to issues like gun violence in schools.

But we need to be careful and disciplined advocates for this. Part of that is seeing that others see a problem. And, the "conversation" I was trying to have here was around the simple tactic of changing the discussion. Let them continue the conversation about "access " to guns and all they see is limiting access as a solution. Frame it about use, mental health, consequence, etc and let them solve those issues.

 

[powerspc]

I'm not trying to stir anything up. Gun violence is a matter of human agency, the gun being inert until used. My fear is that unless the gun owners come up with some idea on how to deal with the violence and move the discussion meaningfully to the issues of mental illness and crime, the largely urban population will see gun violence as a tool-issue and be very comfortable simply restricting access to the tools.

While you’ve been perusing the Forum today 125,000 babies were murdered, not surprisingly this will not be the lead story on the news tonight. There is very, very little gun violence in this Country it just gets reported out of proportion by the liberal media. The number one cause of death in the U.S. is obesity. I’ll say that again, obesity. If people were really interested in saving lives they’d ban Twinkies not guns.

 

[TheBigCountry]

Patience is ending because our rights are being stripped block by block and piece by piece by people who really don’t want to have an open and educated conversation about it. That’s the problem. They get the guns away from us, they have free reign to tell us to do their bidding.

You cannot blame a gun for the problems. You don’t blame a car for a DUI, nor a fork for obesity.

England banned firearm ownership, yet you see no due discourse to ban vans and big trucks after the terror attacks where the said vessels where used to murder.

So why should a gun be blamed when a person uses it to do bad things?

The latest shooting in California? The man had mental issues. Cops went there when he had a mental breakdown. They didn’t do a thing. A few months later, he let his voice be heard through the sound of a Glock...

An unarmed person is a subject; an armed person is a citizen.

 

[Spblademaker]

The politicians are more than welcome to go door to door and collect.

 

[goatboy]

While you’ve been perusing the Forum today 125,000 babies were murdered, not surprisingly this will not be the lead story on the news tonight. There is very, very little gun violence in this Country it just gets reported out of proportion by the liberal media. The number one cause of death in the U.S. is obesity. I’ll say that again, obesity. If people were really interested in saving lives they’d ban Twinkies not guns.

Fair point on bigger issues, but the OP brought up the latest legislative proposal to limit access and i posited that it is because of the recent gun violence.

Could be other reasons like some conspiracy to just take guns away and they will use any excuse. I say call em out. If they want to stop violence, we can find another way that materially limiting access to guns for Joe Q. Public. If they are just after guns to be after guns, then let them have the guts to say it, and let’s test the constitutional question. They will loose.

 

[deersniper]

Well we know how the 3 dykes will vote. Womens suffrage was a terrible thing.

 

[fastgun]

The politicians are more than welcome to go door to door and collect.

They won't have to go door-to-door they will just make a law so we will voluntarily turn them in because we do respect the law and don't want to end up being a criminal because that's what they do , they will make us the criminals.

 

[Spblademaker]

Don’t confuse the Law with illegal laws.

 

[fastgun]

The way I look at it any law they make against Firearms is illegal laws to begin with because it's unconstitutional infringes upon our rights

 

[Spblademaker]

So then you would turn in your guns?

 

[fastgun]

No I wouldn't turn in my guns

 

[fastgun]

I live in a red flag state they're looking to expand the circumstances they can take your Firearms now and for me I'm looking to find some way to leave the state

 

[Alphatreedog]

I don't personally see that "protesting" or "marching" is all that effective.
Those that hate you will just ignore you anyways. It's only something for the Media to put on their news.
I personally feel that sending money the right places, voting the right way in both primaries and elections as well as regularly calling the congress critter for my area and my local state representatives does a fair bit more.
In addition to supporting both national and local gun & knife rights groups and making contributions as I think are needed to those that come out in support of the 2nd Amendment.

Yeah because that has worked great so far . Fact is it's not working . We need to write letters have rallies / attend rallies and let them know we are here 24/7 .
We are losing ground by the day and the current approach ain't workin .
If some9ne was trying to steal your truck you'd take action . Somebody fuckin with your kid , on it like white on rice . 2A hmmm let's let somebody else handle it .
It really comes down to how important this is to you . To say protests don't work is untrue . How would we know cause nobody shows the fuck up .
I'm not trying to pick a fight with you . I'm frustrated that we are not doing more and what we are doing is not working .

 

[goatboy]

Yeah because that has worked great so far . Fact is it's not working . We need to write letters have rallies / attend rallies and let them know we are here 24/7 .
We are losing ground by the day and the current approach ain't workin .
If some9ne was trying to steal your truck you'd take action . Somebody fuckin with your kid , on it like white on rice . 2A hmmm let's let somebody else handle it .
It really comes down to how important this is to you . To say protests don't work is untrue . How would we know cause nobody shows the fuck up .
I'm not trying to pick a fight with you . I'm frustrated that we are not doing more and what we are doing is not working .

This is the point behind my questions. I’m trying to find the “productive” that we can do/ advocate for. Seriously .

 

[Veer_G]

Yeah because that has worked great so far . Fact is it's not working . We need to write letters have rallies / attend rallies and let them know we are here 24/7 .
We are losing ground by the day and the current approach ain't workin .
If some9ne was trying to steal your truck you'd take action . Somebody fuckin with your kid , on it like white on rice . 2A hmmm let's let somebody else handle it .
It really comes down to how important this is to you . To say protests don't work is untrue . How would we know cause nobody shows the fuck up .
I'm not trying to pick a fight with you . I'm frustrated that we are not doing more and what we are doing is not working .

The Left showed up in Charlottesville to counter-protest Unite the Right. Redneck Revolt showed up armed to the teeth. The only protest that I think would work would probably end up in a firefight this time around, given the hands-off attitude shown towards Antifa types by many big-city mayors.

What's left to us, then, if the only thing waiting for us are unrestrained, armed goons?

 

[Alphatreedog]

The Left showed up in Charlottesville to counter-protest Unite the Right. Redneck Revolt showed up armed to the teeth. The only protest that I think would work would probably end up in a firefight this time around, given the hands-off attitude shown towards Antifa types by many big-city mayors.

What's left to us, then, if the only thing waiting for us are unrestrained, armed goons?

Do you think antifa will show up in Jersey or Pa or Maryland ? I've been to a few rallies and haven't seen them . And if it turns into a firefight better at a rally than on my street . I'm not surrendering my weapons and would rather try a more aggressive appraoch politically first . This is not just about 2A . It's about everything that is lost once 2A is gone .

 

[deersniper]

Need to break windows and burn .gov stuff down at the rallies. Fuck up the .gov enforcers too.they should have had to bring the riot squad out when they arrested the Marylanders for protesting That's what the left does. Works well for them. Peaceful protesting has only eroded our rights.

 

[ArmyJerry]

go after their paymasters and enablers.

The Left showed up in Charlottesville to counter-protest Unite the Right. Redneck Revolt showed up armed to the teeth. The only protest that I think would work would probably end up in a firefight this time around, given the hands-off attitude shown towards Antifa types by many big-city mayors.

What's left to us, then, if the only thing waiting for us are unrestrained, armed goons?

 

[QuickNDirty]

View attachment 6970983

I think army jerry and some others might make sure a few politicians/elites feel the repercussions in a civil war

Are you planning on sitting it out, or what?

 

[ArmyJerry]

we aint close to a civil war gents, pay attention to who is doing what and trust no one.

 

[deersniper]

Are you planning on sitting it out, or what?

I don't have any guns. I'm just here for the laughs

 

[Nik H]

we aint close to a civil war gents, pay attention to who is doing what and trust no one.

People always revert to the past as a method of predicting the future.

It is an absolutely poor methodology.

What will happen is not what happened previously.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Social media is a big one. The rise of social AND 24x7 MASS media and mass shootings concurrently is no accident.

Fixed it for ya...

Cheers, sirhr

 

[Holliday]

we aint close to a civil war gents, pay attention to who is doing what and trust no one.

“Civil war” is a crutch for those who either do not care to actually fight or who are delusional. “Oh when its Civil War I’ll get off my ass and fight”. Those people will be the first to hide. Civil War is the unthinkable last resort.

This battle will be won by fighting with our brains and money. We have the examples of how these battles are won. We just need to look to history.......

 

[Holliday]

Fixed it for ya...

Cheers, sirhr

My personal feeling is that there is a bigger correlation to cable news than social media. Most of these shooters, if you really study them, feel invisible. Infamy via the 24/7 cables news machine to them, is like cake to a fat kid.....

If we could convince the News to voluntarily not publish the names and faces of these shooters I think mass shootings would drop to an occasional event , if that.

 

[Jakebrake300]

"Courage is being scared to death — and saddling up anyway."
- John Wayne

Love it- I have a framed John Wayne picture with that quote in our master bathroom!

 

[Tx_Aggie]

That bill isn't the usual gun-grabber boilerplate nonsense. It reads like it was written by someone who is actually knowledgeable about firearms. It would be interesting to know who helped draft the bill.

 

[SilentStalkr]

I agree with you 100% for the life of me I can't understand why us as Shooters can pull it together I've been in the Firearms business for about 25 years and the customers that came in I try to discuss it with them and I can understand their attitude towards it especially since their Shooters and involved in the sport. I tried to gather people to go down to Annapolis but like you people talk about it we're interested but would never take the time to show up and show solidarity for what's going on I've Been Under Siege in Maryland for years and even here they seem like they or complacent about it and think that they're safe and it will never happen here

I get the same attitude in free country as well. It completely baffles me. All that is needed for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing comes to mind here. While we sit around and do nothing the left is doing something and it’s working.

I live in a red flag state they're looking to expand the circumstances they can take your Firearms now and for me I'm looking to find some way to leave the state

The problem with this strategy is that you are running out of places to retreat to. Maybe all gun owners should move and take over one state and run things our way lol. Seriously, the strategy of running isn’t working. It’s allowing them to gain ground.

 

[Veer_G]

I get the same attitude in free country as well. It completely baffles me. All that is needed for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing comes to mind here. While we sit around and do nothing the left is doing something and it’s working.



The problem with this strategy is that you are running out of places to retreat to. Maybe all gun owners should move and take over one state and run things our way lol. Seriously, the strategy of running isn’t working. It’s allowing them to gain ground.

We used to kid each other back in the day in The Pit about taking over some Third World tropical paradise.

Some joke, huh?

 

[Blutroop]

yes.....actually there is.

its called STOP FUCKING LETTING VIOLENT PEOPLE OUT OF JAIL!

if you are too dangerous to own a gun, you are too dangerous to be walking free.....either hang them, shoot them, or lock them up.

but we need to stop treating law abiding citizens as though they are criminals in the making just because they are exercising their rights.


if youve lived a good life...you should be able to walk into any store and buy a full auto 40mm grenade launcher, no questions asked...no BG check, no license, no BS.

Have you seen how big a mk 19 is?(the only full auto 40mm germane launcher I know of) If your big enough to carry it out of “any store” without straining, and shoulder it, I don’t think anyone is gonna question you..

 

[Blutroop]

I get the same attitude in free country as well. It completely baffles me. All that is needed for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing comes to mind here. While we sit around and do nothing the left is doing something and it’s working.



The problem with this strategy is that you are running out of places to retreat to. Maybe all gun owners should move and take over one state and run things our way lol. Seriously, the strategy of running isn’t working. It’s allowing them to gain ground.

When you can’t run anymore it’s time to choose.. resist or submit

 

[honuswagner]

Always amazes me how the libs can have such a twisted perspective.

 

[Alphatreedog]

Always amazes me how the libs can have such a twisted perspective.

Yeah like WTF . Supposedly Pink's husband tweeted anyone caught looting will be shot . Stay away . 2A fuck yeah . How fuckin ironic that female Bo fuckin Jangles
is anti gun . Must be nice to be the Commie Elite .