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Leica 1600-R/2000-B/Kilo 2200MR: Angle vs. True Horizontal Range? And other questions...

T

twadsw01

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Jan 11, 2010
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Trying to find information on exactly what the Leica 1600-R and Sig Kilo 2200MR provide in terms of angle vs. true horizontal distance to target. Does each provide both?

Thank you for the help - I'm in the middle of attempting to choose a range finder that can reliably range deer at ~800m, and my current choices are between the Leica 2000-B, Leica 1600-R, and Sig Kilo 2200MR. I don't need ballistics table features (would rather use a dedicated device or app for that), so the 2000-B's ballistics features really aren't what I'd consider "value-added" for my particular wants at this moment in time.

I'm a little afraid of the Sig rangefinders, reading here and there that they seem to be hit-or-miss.

Any opinions founded in experience are welcomed. Are there any rangefinder options that I'm currently leaving outside of my consideration?

Thank you.
 
Well the 1600b has been a firm favourite for a few years So I think the new 2000 would be a hot one, Back a couple of years ago I wanted the Bushnell 1 mile ARC but I could not find one so I was going to get the 1600b but I held off until February 2017 and got an even better one, and then I heard about the leica 2000 but I have not seen one yet, Personally I would check out the Leica, I think you would be ok with the Sig 2200 because they appear to be a bit better than the pervious model but I think some guys have had a couple of issues but nothing like the Sig 2000.

Hope that helps.

John.
 
Thanks, John.

I was surprised when looking at the Bushnell CONX/Kestrel combo, that it was only rated for ~600yds or so on deer, if I remember correctly! Is this really true??
 
twadsw01 said:
Thanks, John.

I was surprised when looking at the Bushnell CONX/Kestrel combo, that it was only rated for ~600yds or so on deer, if I remember correctly! Is this really true??
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Yeah but that is just to cover their A$$, It will double that and more on domestic sheep, and I have done it many times with mine,

John.
 
So Bushnell underrates theirs to that low of a degree while Sig and Vortex (arguably) grossly overrate their rangefinders' ability?
 
I have a Leica 1600-B I am very happy with. It ranges deer and cows out to 800 meters consistently as long as it is held steady enough. I've ranged animals off a tripod at distances over 1000 meters without issue and have managed to get readings on rocks and other larger features beyond 1600 meters.

The one thing I can say about the Leica is that it is optically so good that I have oftentimes used it in lieu of binoculars for a quick glassing of an area or verification/identification of a specific animal at distance. The Leica rangefinder provides excellent color rendition and image detail with minimal strain on your eyes.
 
twadsw01 said:
So Bushnell underrates theirs to that low of a degree while Sig and Vortex (arguably) grossly overrate their rangefinders' ability?
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More or less, I have zapped many things in bright sunlight with heavy mirage almost misty and I still hit things a lot further than what Bushnell claim,

Nearly every Bushnell range finder is either rated to 500 yds on animals and 900 or 1200 yds on trees and 1600m on reflective targets and they have been posting those same figures since about 2004/5 even though they have bought out 4 LRF's with the same figures, There is no way would they release such an LRF if it offered the same performance But by using the same figures people won't start whinging when they can only range an animal at 5 or 600 yards,

Have a look at this Video and see for your self but remember he is talking in Metres and when you do the maths it works out a lot further in Yards,

hope this helps,

John.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufyEqTn6CaM
 
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On a bright sunny day my 1600B off hand would range a 15" steel plate at 1580 yards when a sig 2000 and a one mile arc wouldn't. That being said I just bought a sig 2400 a couple of days ago and so far it's been stomping the leica into the dirt. The 1600B was hitting deer 75% of the time around 800/850yds in the bright sun yesterday, the new sig 100% around 1200yds. The sig was ranging the neighbors horses at 1473yds on the skyline, I was backed up against the river so I couldn't try farther.
 
Mtleadfarmer said:
On a bright sunny day my 1600B off hand would range a 15" steel plate at 1580 yards when a sig 2000 and a one mile arc wouldn't. That being said I just bought a sig 2400 a couple of days ago and so far it's been stomping the leica into the dirt. The 1600B was hitting deer 75% of the time around 800/850yds in the bright sun yesterday, the new sig 100% around 1200yds. The sig was ranging the neighbors horses at 1473yds on the skyline, I was backed up against the river so I couldn't try farther.
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Yep for sure, But there is a pattern forming with LRF's many have tried the Sig and had no luck, Yet others do well with them, Some get blistering results with the Leica's and Some do well with the Bushnell LRF's, I think a lot of this relates to how steady people can hold different models, I started of with a vertical model and I did Ok with it and it was ranging well past the quoted figures, But Adapting to the Horizontal type like the ConX, G-7, Terrapin took me a good day to stop all the bad habits that I had picked up when using the vertical models.

The ConX in that Video is ranging the following items as Below. But they were ranged in the scan mode NOT the Bullseye or the Brush Modes which will boost those ranges even further,

Bushnell listed figures are Deer 600 yards, Tree 1200 yards and Reflective 1760 yards

1) Sheep 1188/1189 M or 1299.31 - 1300.30 yards
2) Fence post 1489 M or 1606.51 yards
3) Black Cow 1119 M or 1223.75 yards
4) Grass hill 1428 M or 1561.68 yards
5) Tree 1386 M or 1515.74 yards
6) Tree 1392 M or 1522.31 yards

Looking at these figures The ConX is hitting Trees at over 322 yards further than what Bushnell Quote and that Wooden Fence post at 1606 yards Now that post is over 33% or 406 yards further than what Bushnell claim for a Tree and it is a lot smaller, and it is ranging Sheep at more than 118% or 700 yards further than the claimed 600 yards for a Deer and a Sheep is only a Quarter of the Size of a Deer, and all these Ranges were Acquired in bright Sunlight.

The Person did not Range a Reflective Target but you can be sure under Ideal conditions that it will go past the Quoted 1760 yards, And that Video reflects my Results, The Video Can't Lie, So food for thought there, Aye.

Hope this helps,

John.
 
Hmm, y'all have definitely given me some things to think about. Thanks for the advice.

I'm leaning now towards either a Kilo 2200 or the Leica 2000-B. I absolutely don't need the ballistics capabilities of the -B, so that puts them sort of in the same ballpark, as the prices are comparable (at least the demo 2000-B I've been looking at).

Anyone have info on the relative reticle sizes between the two?
 
twadsw01 said:
Hmm, y'all have definitely given me some things to think about. Thanks for the advice.

I'm leaning now towards either a Kilo 2200 or the Leica 2000-B. I absolutely don't need the ballistics capabilities of the -B, so that puts them sort of in the same ballpark, as the prices are comparable (at least the demo 2000-B I've been looking at).

Anyone have info on the relative reticle sizes between the two?
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Wwll if you don't need ballistics the I would buy the cheaper of the two because the 1600b can go out to 1800+ yards and then some so the 2000b should be even better and the sig 2200 is better than their 2000 model because of all the problems that had, the 2200 had a few minor glitches but they seem to be on the ball now,

John.
 
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Not sure how useful this will be to you, but I recently sold my Bushnell G-Force DX 1300 ARC at a big loss because of how disappointed I was with it. It was useless on large steel, vehicles, boulders etc. past 600 yards, despite allegedly being rated for ranging reflective targets to 1300.

I replaced it with a Sig Kilo 2200MR, and it has easily ranged the same steel to 1250 without issue. The digital reticle is also a nice touch.

FWIW, I have a lot of Bushnell Elite Tactical glass and am a huge fan of their high end stuff, just couldn't stand my LRF. Maybe their ConX stuff is better, but their lesser model made me gun-shy after being capable of less than half of what it was supposed to.
 
RifleBlog said:
Not sure how useful this will be to you, but I recently sold my Bushnell G-Force DX 1300 ARC at a big loss because of how disappointed I was with it. It was useless on large steel, vehicles, boulders etc. past 600 yards, despite allegedly being rated for ranging reflective targets to 1300.

I replaced it with a Sig Kilo 2200MR, and it has easily ranged the same steel to 1250 without issue. The digital reticle is also a nice touch.

FWIW, I have a lot of Bushnell Elite Tactical glass and am a huge fan of their high end stuff, just couldn't stand my LRF. Maybe their ConX stuff is better, but their lesser model made me gun-shy after being capable of less than half of what it was supposed to.
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My G-Force 1300 use to range trees way past what Bushnell claimed, I got returns past 1380+ yards, It was really great so maybe your was not up to spec.;
 
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Still mulling this choice over. Thinking about a Kilo 2200 and a Kestrel 2500. Much less expensive than the Conx combo. And I can't see where I'd be losing anything in terms of calculating solutions if I uses Strelok or Applied Ballistics in conjunction.

yeah?
 
Also, does having rangefinding binos somewhat offset having poorer quality glass in the binos since you have two eyes looking thru them?
 
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twadsw01 said:
Still mulling this choice over. Thinking about a Kilo 2200 and a Kestrel 2500. Much less expensive than the Conx combo. And I can't see where I'd be losing anything in terms of calculating solutions if I uses Strelok or Applied Ballistics in conjunction.

yeah?
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That's a Good Idea too, but if you can swing it I would try to aim for the kestrel 5000 because it has DA, The 5000 is the replacement for the 4000 series and they have a link version which will work via Bluetooth with Strelok so your weather data will be Automatic,

just an Idea any way, But I also have a 4000 NV Non BT model and it has everything I need and then some, but the Elite became a must have Item because I bought the ConX and I wanted to use all the features of the ConX.

Hope this helps.

John.
 
I was under the impression that if you had absolute pressure (station pressure), then you didn't need DA. I.e, that all the info you needed was station pressure and temperature. Is this wrong?
​​​​​​
 
twadsw01 said:
I was under the impression that if you had absolute pressure (station pressure), then you didn't need DA. I.e, that all the info you needed was station pressure and temperature. Is this wrong?
​​​​​​
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No that is correct, the good thing about using DA is you only use one set of figures, But when you use the pressure you need the pressure, and the Temp and the Humidity so by using DA you do away with having to load 3 sets of figures, Also the 4 and 5 series log up to 10,000 data points plus Min, Max and Average readings etc.

I think my 4000 records either 2000 bits of Data, IE the Baro screen has recorded the pressure every half hour for the last few months which it will update as the days go by. and you can select how often it records that info etc.

Hope that helps,

John.
 
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Thanks John. Another pertinent piece of information about my application which I failed to mention is that I likely won't ever shoot beyond 800m. Please correct me if I'm wrong but I've messed with JBM and observed that humidity doesn't affect elevation data at all if abs pressure and temperature are used.
 
Actually just went back to JBM to confirm and saw that the difference between 0% and 100% humidity is 2" at 800m
 
twadsw01 said:
Thanks John. Another pertinent piece of information about my application which I failed to mention is that I likely won't ever shoot beyond 800m. Please correct me if I'm wrong but I've messed with JBM and observed that humidity doesn't affect elevation data at all if abs pressure and temperature are used.
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Well I do have JMB but I prefer Stelok Pro over all the others, I just changed the Humidity In Strelok from 75% down to 35% and using a 308 it will cause about an Inch and a half drop at 1000 yards, Where it becomes most important is when you try to shoot to and beyond the limits of the Cartridge, So by adding Humidity to the list you are giving your self the best possible chance of a first round hit, But by using DA you are combining all 3 measurements and increasing you chance to achieve your Goal it does not matter if you want to type in all 3 because you will get the same results as using DA and with only having to type in one figure you are speeding up the process of getting the solution to make the shot.

Hope that helps,

John.
 
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twadsw01 said:
Excellent. Thanks allot, John. I see what you're saying, totally.
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Ya welcome Mate,

I just did the same test again with the App and if you have 0% as your Humidity then you will get a Drop of 2.3 to 2 and a half inches, So you should account for Humidity really to be honest,

Anyhow have a think about it, just something to consider Aye.

John.
 
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2.3"-2.5" at 800m, you're saying?

What App are you using? I've only looked at a couple of the free ones offered for Android and haven't purchased anything yet. I'm not sure that Strelok is able to use absolute/station pressure - when setting up the 'weather' in the free version, there are only boxes for "Pressure", "Altitude", and "Temperature", and no information on what kind of pressure measurement it's expecting.

I'm also trying to choose a ballistics app, and I really like the Strelok has the ability to differentiate zeroing weather from current weather. The app I'm using which has JBM's ballistic engine is called BallisticsARC, but doesn't have the ability to differentiate zeroing weather from current weather. Is this a standard feature in any of the pay versions of Strelok, or Applied Ballistics?
 
twadsw01 said:
2.3"-2.5" at 800m, you're saying?

What App are you using? I've only looked at a couple of the free ones offered for Android and haven't purchased anything yet. I'm not sure that Strelok is able to use absolute/station pressure - when setting up the 'weather' in the free version, there are only boxes for "Pressure", "Altitude", and "Temperature", and no information on what kind of pressure measurement it's expecting.

I'm also trying to choose a ballistics app, and I really like the Strelok has the ability to differentiate zeroing weather from current weather. The app I'm using which has JBM's ballistic engine is called BallisticsARC, but doesn't have the ability to differentiate zeroing weather from current weather. Is this a standard feature in any of the pay versions of Strelok, or Applied Ballistics?
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No that was for 1000 yards, using a different Bullet, But using my preferred bullet At 1000 yards @ 100% humidity I get a drop of 338.6 inches and at 0% humidity I get a drop of 341.7 inches that is a 3.1 inch variation.

AT 800 metres = 874.89 yards @ 0% humidity Drop = 236.2 inches,, AT 100% humidity Drop = 234.4 inches, that is a 1.8 inch variation

One thing you will notice is that like everything else when shooting the further it gets the worse the effect. The difference between 800m/874.89 yards and a 1000 yards adds up to a 72.22% variation of the drop value for what it is at 800m/874.89 yards, Meaning that The Extra 125.1 yards has added 1.3 of an inch of Drop which is a lot more than an Inch.

Yes with Strelok Pro you can Adjust the current Weather and the Zeroing Weather and Also the Powder Temp, With Strelok Pro you can Adjust anything if you need to but it is so simple, if you have used the normal version then the Pro version will be a breeze.

I have used them All and I have about 10 shooting Apps, But the best Laid out App is Strelok Pro and you can change all those features you mention and more, when you Click on the weather panel on the left hand side of the first screen, it opens up and there is a tick box that says " Use Density Altitude " OR once you have opened the screen you can change the TEMP, PRESSURE, HUMIDITY and the POWDER TEMP.

Strelok Pro has all your favourite features of the free versions But is has a lot more useable features and Huge Bullet / Cartridge Data Bases and expanded Scope choices, There is nothing that you cant do with it and yet it is Oh So simple and they have put the Drop screen the right way up ( Starting ) At Zero at the TOP. and you can Save and Store a Huge amount of Rifles and each Rifle can have many Cartridge Choices save under that Rifle.

One of the best things is that If I have a problem I send the man a message and he fixes it, I sent him a message and he got straight back to me and released another Up Date within 10 or 20 Minutes of our conversation, and That was just Last Month. He is a truly Great Person and extremely helpful.

I started using Strelok about 3 or 4 years ago and then bought Strelok + and that was really good So I went and bought Strelok Pro as well and it was amazing even back then but it just keeps getting better and better, I have about 10 Shooting Apps on my Phone and about 15 or 20 in my Play store Account But I only use Strelok Pro and the Bushnell ConX App because I need it for the range finder and the Kestrel App to use with the Kestrel, But Strelok is my Go To APP

I started using Strelok when it was first born and many people shy'd away from it, But now many have embraced it and do extremely well with it and since those days it has spread like wild fire.

Hope this helps,

John.
 
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That's great feedback, John. I really appreciate it; that is a lot of work to put into summarizing your experience when you're not getting paid for it.

Just as an update, I'm either going to go with a [Kestrel 5k + (Leica 1600-R)/(Sig Kilo 2200)] or the Conx Combo. Not sure which. I could save quite a bit of $ with the former, but you really seem to be a convert for the latter. The one thing holding me back on the Conx is that there really don't seem to be a lot of reviews out there, or head-to-head comparisons. E.g., how's the glass rate against those other two (the Sig and Leica), how does it fare in a head-to-head ranging comparison on animals or other non-reflective surface, etc.
 
Another thing holding me back on the Conx is that I'm not sold on the Kestrel Sportsman; I really don't feel the need to have ballistics calculators in 3 places (rangefinder, Kestrel, phone), and if I had to choose between the Sportsman and the Elite Kestrels, I'd go with the Elite.
 
twadsw01 said:
That's great feedback, John. I really appreciate it; that is a lot of work to put into summarizing your experience when you're not getting paid for it.

Just as an update, I'm either going to go with a [Kestrel 5k + (Leica 1600-R)/(Sig Kilo 2200)] or the Conx Combo. Not sure which. I could save quite a bit of $ with the former, but you really seem to be a convert for the latter. The one thing holding me back on the Conx is that there really don't seem to be a lot of reviews out there, or head-to-head comparisons. E.g., how's the glass rate against those other two (the Sig and Leica), how does it fare in a head-to-head ranging comparison on animals or other non-reflective surface, etc.
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Well I do try to cover all bases, with my abilities and my equipment, But I am not a rich man so throwing money about does take some thought, But if I wanted something bad enough then I would get it, I wanted the G-7 LRF but they are 3x the price of what I ended up with, But it can't do what the ConX can and in fact No other Ranger finder can Due to it's Connectivity, It has 16 modes and 3 targeting modes that you can use within those 16 modes and add to that with the connectivity it gives me 7 ways to use it, So what does that mean in a nut shell, Well it is the Leatherman or Swiss Army Knife of the Range Finder World, NO it is not the furthest or the most powerful But it does range an awful long way, I have ranged Non reflective things well past 15 / 1600 yards, and in those links below there is a video of the ConX ranging a wooden fence post at about 1609 yards and domestic sheep at 1300 yards etc I used mine under the worst conditions ever and I was still zapping targets / things at 1677 yards.

I want my rangefinder to do all things well in stead of ranging like a demon and that's all it's got, Not only does the ConX range beyond a mile but I can Adapt it to be used in any situation due to that connectivity etc You do not need to range things at 3 or 4000 yards unless you are calling in Air Strikes or Drawing Maps, As wonderful as a Terrapin is It does very little for the money in terms of when you compare it to the ConX or the G-7 and the Sig 2400, Out of the 3 the ConX is the best all rounder because there is something in there for everyone. and the Accuracy is within 0.01 to 0.03 mils. or in other words 0.036" of an inch on a target I set up at 226.6 yards down to 0.015" of an inch,

It gives me 3 choices of App connectivity and I can program in my Custom Data or I can Range something and put the Data in to one of my other 7 Apps, So the only Limits are the ones I put in place, But don't Buy one on my say so, because when I buy things I want things that cover all bases and Lasers are like Rifles, You need Accuracy over fire power, For me the ConX It is the Complete Range Finder package, It has some unknown tricks up it's sleeve, Which I have not posted yet, but If I was given or Won one of the others I would still sell it and buy the ConX


Anyways have a read of those threads and see what you think. and check out that Video baring in mind they only used the Scan mode not the enhanced Target or Brush Modes.

hope that helps.

John.

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/forum/...-sig-kilo-2200

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/forum/...ew-by-guns-com
 
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twadsw01 said:
Another thing holding me back on the Conx is that I'm not sold on the Kestrel Sportsman; I really don't feel the need to have ballistics calculators in 3 places (rangefinder, Kestrel, phone), and if I had to choose between the Sportsman and the Elite Kestrels, I'd go with the Elite.
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Well I would always go with the Elite, Or if money was tight I would get the sportsman and get it upgraded when I had built up the bank balance, But the other Apps should be seen as a Bonus, personally I think the ConX App is very cool, because you can program the ConX and you are good to go, and they talk to each other, When I first put it in to Action I laughed and thought "Man" this thing ought to be illegal, Lol. I just love it,

Having a Ballistic Solver in 3 places gives you safe Guards in case any of the others fail, Because being electronic they can and they will.

John.
 
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twadsw01 said:
Another thing holding me back on the Conx is that I'm not sold on the Kestrel Sportsman; I really don't feel the need to have ballistics calculators in 3 places (rangefinder, Kestrel, phone), and if I had to choose between the Sportsman and the Elite Kestrels, I'd go with the Elite.
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If a person was going to use their preferred App all the time then It would be a better Idea to just buy the Kestrel 5500 because it comes with a weather vane and it has a built in Compass, and Link ( Bluetooth )

hope this helps,

John.
 
Update: ended up going with a Sig Kilo 2200MR and was doing some informal testing of it at the beach this weekend. So far, I'm a little skeptical about how it is going to perform on deer in the 700-800yd range.

I was ranging mainly things like houses, water towers, water, grass hold, bushes, i.e, things that I would have thought would have given much better returns than furry animals the size of a deer.

I was able to get returns inconsistently out to maybe 1500yds on water towers and sometimes out to 900 on houses. Lighting conditions for this were in the mid to late afternoon.

One caveat is that it was super duper humid. I don't know if this adversely affects LRFs, nor if that was the issue with this one having such inconsistent performance, but that was always part of the environment I was ranging in. It was always right at 90-97% humidity, but never rained.

Allot of the readings from the sides and roofs of shingles houses simply read "----".
 
twadsw01 said:
Update: ended up going with a Sig Kilo 2200MR and was doing some informal testing of it at the beach this weekend. So far, I'm a little skeptical about how it is going to perform on deer in the 700-800yd range.

I was ranging mainly things like houses, water towers, water, grass hold, bushes, i.e, things that I would have thought would have given much better returns than furry animals the size of a deer.

I was able to get returns inconsistently out to maybe 1500yds on water towers and sometimes out to 900 on houses. Lighting conditions for this were in the mid to late afternoon.

One caveat is that it was super duper humid. I don't know if this adversely affects LRFs, nor if that was the issue with this one having such inconsistent performance, but that was always part of the environment I was ranging in. It was always right at 90-97% humidity, but never rained.

Allot of the readings from the sides and roofs of shingles houses simply read "----".
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Well give it a chance mate, Being new to you it might take a day or two to get use to aiming the thing, I had a few worrying moments when I first got the ConX being a horizontal design and I also had the same issue when I bought the G-Force with it's Vertical design, but you have bought a good one so well done,

let us know how you get on over the next couple of weeks or so.

Good Luck

John.
 
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MilDot1960 said:
Well I would always go with the Elite, Or if money was tight I would get the sportsman and get it upgraded when I had built up the bank balance, But the other Apps should be seen as a Bonus, personally I think the ConX App is very cool, because you can program the ConX and you are good to go, and they talk to each other, When I first put it in to Action I laughed and thought "Man" this thing ought to be illegal, Lol. I just love it,

Having a Ballistic Solver in 3 places gives you safe Guards in case any of the others fail, Because being electronic they can and they will.

John.
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I don't know John..I started with the Kestrel Sportsman. Bought a LNIB unit here on the Hide for $360 including the case and weathervane system. It works super well. The benefit is that you can always find the Sportsman's model used. You can then update to Elite status for $190. You only really need to do that if...

1. You are shooting at ranges where your load is entering transonic. The CDM versus G7 values really help at ELR distances. The OP said 800m is his max so I don't think CDM buys much.
2. You have more than 3 gun profiles that you want to keep on the Kestrel. For many people 3 is plenty.
3. You want a range card for the field.

None of this is pressing and you can save yourself serious coin by buying a used Kestrel which can be placed elsewhere or left in you pocket. You lose nothing as it can be upgraded later.

I run Coldbore on a Trimble NOMAD so the Kestrel is simply a backup calculator should I need it. It is used more for environmental readings than anything else. It connects seamlessly with the NOMAD (tried it yesterday for the first time)!

Regarding the LRF...well you and I have talked previously and I still have not pulled the trigger on anything. The ConX, Leica 2000B and the SIG2200MR are all in consideration but to really be honest; I have read so much negative on the SIG and lesser models of the Bushy that I am leaning towards Leica. My only one experience with the ConX as I told you previously was my buddy's unit which was pretty poor at meeting the advertised claims. This being said, it was one of the first off of the production line. It seems the only sure fire bet is to buy a Terrapin. However, now that they have said that they will drop all support for the Terrapin in 2 years, it seems like a dumb purchase. It is a bet on their ruggedness.

I am in no hurry to make a bad decision.
 
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Definitely am not anywhere near writing it off yet. Those were pretty extreme conditions to ask it to work on anyway, especially when compared with my typical hunting conditions.

MilDot1960 said:
Well give it a chance mate, Being new to you it might take a day or two to get use to aiming the thing, I had a few worrying moments when I first got the ConX being a horizontal design and I also had the same issue when I bought the G-Force with it's Vertical design, but you have bought a good one so well done,

let us know how you get on over the next couple of weeks or so.

Good Luck

John.
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Nik H said:
I don't know John..I started with the Kestrel Sportsman. Bought a LNIB unit here on the Hide for $360 including the case and weathervane system. It works super well. The benefit is that you can always find the Sportsman's model used. You can then update to Elite status for $190. You only really need to do that if...

1. You are shooting at ranges where your load is entering transonic. The CDM versus G7 values really help at ELR distances. The OP said 800m is his max so I don't think CDM buys much.
2. You have more than 3 gun profiles that you want to keep on the Kestrel. For many people 3 is plenty.
3. You want a range card for the field.

None of this is pressing and you can save yourself serious coin by buying a used Kestrel which can be placed elsewhere or left in you pocket. You lose nothing as it can be upgraded later.

I run Coldbore on a Trimble NOMAD so the Kestrel is simply a backup calculator should I need it. It is used more for environmental readings than anything else. It connects seamlessly with the NOMAD (tried it yesterday for the first time)!

Regarding the LRF...well you and I have talked previously and I still have not pulled the trigger on anything. The ConX, Leica 2000B and the SIG2200MR are all in consideration but to really be honest; I have read so much negative on the SIG and lesser models of the Bushy that I am leaning towards Leica. My only one experience with the ConX as I told you previously was my buddy's unit which was pretty poor at meeting the advertised claims. This being said, it was one of the first off of the production line. It seems the only sure fire bet is to buy a Terrapin. However, now that they have said that they will drop all support for the Terrapin in 2 years, it seems like a dumb purchase. It is a bet on their ruggedness.

I am in no hurry to make a bad decision.
Click to expand...

Well I sort of agree with you there, I think Kestrel being the front runner I think we all tend to put their name forward more than most, No doubt there are many other good units out there too,

As for the ConX it has a few tricks up it's sleeve which in the wrong hands does cause me some serious thoughts as to where in the world they are or should be sold, As for the Leica I was going to buy the 1600b when I could not get the original 1 Mile ARC but I forgot about it being winter time and then the ConX came out and the rest is history, But the Leica is a world class piece of kit and has proven it's self time and time again so either the 1600b or the 2000b would serve you well, The sig has the horse power but the Leica has the Rep so I think you would be happy with either the 1600b or the 2000b, and a Kestrel 550 BT or any other equal branded model,

hope that helps.

John.
 
The principal limitation I see with the ConX is the 1,000 yard maximum limit in Rifle HD mode. I wonder why they limited it to 1,000 yards.
 
Nik H said:
The principal limitation I see with the ConX is the 1,000 yard maximum limit in Rifle HD mode. I wonder why they limited it to 1,000 yards.
Click to expand...

Yeah everyone asks that, But it is not true, that is there so as not to over state what it can do, The fact is in the wrong hands the ConX is a dangerous piece of kit, When I first set mine up I made some Awesome discoveries and I said out loud to my self " £$%& Me this thing can't Be Legal"

I have not posted much about it here but I did on LRH the other day, Trust me the ConX is Bad News. But I thought you were feeling the Love for the Leica ??

John.

 
Optically the Leica is nice but the price of the ConX is very attractive. Can get it for $499.

If the ConX is as good as you say, I don't know why Bushy understates the performance. Seems like they would increase sales.
 
Nik H said:
Optically the Leica is nice but the price of the ConX is very attractive. Can get it for $499.

If the ConX is as good as you say, I don't know why Bushy understates the performance. Seems like they would increase sales.
Click to expand...

Don't go away and I will find you the link to what I posted else where and it covers the programming and everything, Seriously it was a shock,

BRB,,,, John.
 
Ok here is the link, But remember this I read about Andy Backus's 7mm and I entered his fairly complete data in to one Of my Apps just out of interest and then all this came to life from the results, but I forgot to post the actual distance it works out to,

Enjoy,

John,

http://www.longrangehunting.com/foru...2400-a-188219/
 
Last edited:
Nik H said:
Optically the Leica is nice but the price of the ConX is very attractive. Can get it for $499.

If the ConX is as good as you say, I don't know why Bushy understates the performance. Seems like they would increase sales.
Click to expand...

I might open a Thread here regarding programming the ConX using the ConX App because it will help folks decide whether it is worth their interest, As you pointed out I also thought that the quoted 1000 yard limit was a bit of a let down too,

John.
 
Good thread. I get the point of being able to take true measured drop at an accurately measured range and enter it for one button operation. However, even that has its limitation. If your DA is drastically different, then those drop values change. It isn't like the ConX is using an advanced solver to provide you the firing solution; is it? The data you enter in custom mode is really just parroted back to you when you range a target.....correct? What if your range is between 2 measured values? Suppose your data is 700 and 800 yards but you range 750. What does the app or the LRF provide you for a come up?

As I said before, this type of solution has a few advantages for its inherent simplicity but I am looking for ranging accuracy versus all of the niceties. If the LRF provides me accurate range and angle, I am good. I manually enter that in my NOMAD along with entering the environmental data from the Kestrel and I am provided an extremely accurate firing solution by Coldbore. It is head and shoulders better than other solvers out there.

So I guess what I am asking in a completely round about way is how accurate do you believe the CoNX is versus the other similarly priced LRFs?
 
Nik H said:
Good thread. I get the point of being able to take true measured drop at an accurately measured range and enter it for one button operation. However, even that has its limitation. If your DA is drastically different, then those drop values change. It isn't like the ConX is using an advanced solver to provide you the firing solution; is it? The data you enter in custom mode is really just parroted back to you when you range a target.....correct? What if your range is between 2 measured values? Suppose your data is 700 and 800 yards but you range 750. What does the app or the LRF provide you for a come up?

As I said before, this type of solution has a few advantages for its inherent simplicity but I am looking for ranging accuracy versus all of the niceties. If the LRF provides me accurate range and angle, I am good. I manually enter that in my NOMAD along with entering the environmental data from the Kestrel and I am provided an extremely accurate firing solution by Coldbore. It is head and shoulders better than other solvers out there.

So I guess what I am asking in a completely round about way is how accurate do you believe the CoNX is versus the other similarly priced LRFs?
Click to expand...

The App works out the drop from 5 yards right out to the maximum that you have entered in the drop boxes, IE no matter if you have entered 700 yards and 900 yards if you have Lased a Target at 763 yards then it will give you the correct come ups for 763 yards, Not for 800 or 750 yards, It gives you the Bang On Elevation for the range it actually is seeing and it will tell you the degrees in 0.1 accuracy IE 9.18 Mils at 16.4 degrees and the LOS Range, That is why I said about it being bad news in the wrong hands,

hope this helps.

John.
 
Nik H said:
Good thread. I get the point of being able to take true measured drop at an accurately measured range and enter it for one button operation. However, even that has its limitation. If your DA is drastically different, then those drop values change. It isn't like the ConX is using an advanced solver to provide you the firing solution; is it? The data you enter in custom mode is really just parroted back to you when you range a target.....correct? What if your range is between 2 measured values? Suppose your data is 700 and 800 yards but you range 750. What does the app or the LRF provide you for a come up?

As I said before, this type of solution has a few advantages for its inherent simplicity but I am looking for ranging accuracy versus all of the niceties. If the LRF provides me accurate range and angle, I am good. I manually enter that in my NOMAD along with entering the environmental data from the Kestrel and I am provided an extremely accurate firing solution by Coldbore. It is head and shoulders better than other solvers out there.

So I guess what I am asking in a completely round about way is how accurate do you believe the CoNX is versus the other similarly priced LRFs?
Click to expand...

The Ranging abilities of the ConX is within 8" at any given distance according to someone who Ranged many targets and then measured them Manually and the Come ups are between 0.01 and 0.03 mils which works out to be within 2/10,000ths of an Inch per yard. So that would work out to be within .0.09 to 0.10 mils per mile, I don't think that's too bad when you compare it to the price,

John.
 
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