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Re: M1 Carbine Rockola vs Underwood
Rockola carbines are desired because of the interesting story behind the manufacturer. Rockola was a maker of music juke boxes that got a contract in WWII to make M1 Carbines. They were one of the lower production makers so their carbines are fewer in number whereas Underwood was one of the higher production mfrs. So the story and being less common combine to create more demand and higher prices.
Rockola carbines are desired because of the interesting story behind the manufacturer. Rockola was a maker of music juke boxes that got a contract in WWII to make M1 Carbines. They were one of the lower production makers so their carbines are fewer in number whereas Underwood was one of the higher production mfrs. So the story and being less common combine to create more demand and higher prices.
Re: M1 Carbine Rockola vs Underwood
value has to do with how many were made of each. Also if it is original as issued or an assembly of parts. Most carbines were rebuilt by the military. The last ten years or so, owners have been buying up parts and installing "correct" parts in them. This has drove up the price of parts and increased the price of carbines. Same is true for M1 Garands. A true unmolested carbine of ant maker is worth more than an assembly of correct parts. Only way to tell, is by wear marks and the color shade of those parts. Things like the marks left by once haveing a bayonet lug barrel band on the rifle or stake marks for an adjustable rear sight on early carbines. It's buyer beware on most, now days. Knowing all of what should or shouldn't be on a carbine will let you know if the price is a good one or not. There are also fake parts on the market. You will find these on socalled "Original" carbines. Some are not easy to tell from the real parts. So, if you just want a shooter, buy one that has upgrade parts. If you want a collecter, buy from a well know dealer in original carbines. There realy isn't that many originals out there.
value has to do with how many were made of each. Also if it is original as issued or an assembly of parts. Most carbines were rebuilt by the military. The last ten years or so, owners have been buying up parts and installing "correct" parts in them. This has drove up the price of parts and increased the price of carbines. Same is true for M1 Garands. A true unmolested carbine of ant maker is worth more than an assembly of correct parts. Only way to tell, is by wear marks and the color shade of those parts. Things like the marks left by once haveing a bayonet lug barrel band on the rifle or stake marks for an adjustable rear sight on early carbines. It's buyer beware on most, now days. Knowing all of what should or shouldn't be on a carbine will let you know if the price is a good one or not. There are also fake parts on the market. You will find these on socalled "Original" carbines. Some are not easy to tell from the real parts. So, if you just want a shooter, buy one that has upgrade parts. If you want a collecter, buy from a well know dealer in original carbines. There realy isn't that many originals out there.
Re: M1 Carbine Rockola vs Underwood
Thanks guys,
I presently own a Underwood M1 Carbine and am getting a Rock-Ola M1Carbine sent to me. I bought the Underwood at a local gun shop and has the Underwood markings, stamps etc. I am thinking about selling the Underwood but I need to find time to take it apart and list all the #'s and markings. Do you think there would be any interest in me posting the particulars of the Underwood carbine on this site?
Thanks again,
Dan G.
Thanks guys,
I presently own a Underwood M1 Carbine and am getting a Rock-Ola M1Carbine sent to me. I bought the Underwood at a local gun shop and has the Underwood markings, stamps etc. I am thinking about selling the Underwood but I need to find time to take it apart and list all the #'s and markings. Do you think there would be any interest in me posting the particulars of the Underwood carbine on this site?
Thanks again,
Dan G.
Re: M1 Carbine Rockola vs Underwood
Hi Guys,
Here's the info on the Underwood M1 Carbine.
1. Barrel... Underwood 3-44 flaming bomb and a U stamp
2. a letter G or a number 6 stamped on the bayonet housing
3. the letters JM stamped on the Bayonet Sleeve
4. a #4 and a .U. stamped on the trigger housing
5. a WU stamped on the hammer
6. a W1 stamped on the rear stock retaining screw housing
7. 2 flaming bombs on the trigger housing one bigger than the other
8. SN 249XXXX with underwood above the SN and a small w stamped on the receiver behind the SN
9. the letters SJ stamped on the upper forearm stock
10.the cartouche letters P-U stamped in the sling well
11.a boxed cartouche stamped STD over a PROD over a RWH in front of the sling well
12.a very faint cartouche stamped boxed GHD over a UEF with circled cannons to the right of the GRD over the UEF on right side of stock
13.the numbers 4362840 stamped on left side of stock
I believe this M1 Carbine was sent to be refurbished/rebuilt by Standard Products Company around the KW as it has the cartouche stamp of this company as well as a swivel safety, non flip rear sight, Bayonet housing, and 30 round clip support.
I don't have the bore or muzzle numbers, but have shot about 30 rounds through it without problems.
Thanks,
Dan G
Hi Guys,
Here's the info on the Underwood M1 Carbine.
1. Barrel... Underwood 3-44 flaming bomb and a U stamp
2. a letter G or a number 6 stamped on the bayonet housing
3. the letters JM stamped on the Bayonet Sleeve
4. a #4 and a .U. stamped on the trigger housing
5. a WU stamped on the hammer
6. a W1 stamped on the rear stock retaining screw housing
7. 2 flaming bombs on the trigger housing one bigger than the other
8. SN 249XXXX with underwood above the SN and a small w stamped on the receiver behind the SN
9. the letters SJ stamped on the upper forearm stock
10.the cartouche letters P-U stamped in the sling well
11.a boxed cartouche stamped STD over a PROD over a RWH in front of the sling well
12.a very faint cartouche stamped boxed GHD over a UEF with circled cannons to the right of the GRD over the UEF on right side of stock
13.the numbers 4362840 stamped on left side of stock
I believe this M1 Carbine was sent to be refurbished/rebuilt by Standard Products Company around the KW as it has the cartouche stamp of this company as well as a swivel safety, non flip rear sight, Bayonet housing, and 30 round clip support.
I don't have the bore or muzzle numbers, but have shot about 30 rounds through it without problems.
Thanks,
Dan G
Re: M1 Carbine Rockola vs Underwood
Not meaning to be a prick, but you should probably reread the site rules regarding number of posts and offering items for sale.
Me, I would edit out the last two sentences bit about the offer and let the rest stand. Not your fault of somebody PM's you with an inquiry.
Greg
Not meaning to be a prick, but you should probably reread the site rules regarding number of posts and offering items for sale.
Me, I would edit out the last two sentences bit about the offer and let the rest stand. Not your fault of somebody PM's you with an inquiry.
Greg
Re: M1 Carbine Rockola vs Underwood
+1 for what Greg said.
By the way #6 is a WI not W1 the part is from an Inland.
Donald
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not meaning to be a prick, but you should probably reread the site rules regarding number of posts and offering items for sale.
Me, I would edit out the last two sentences bit about the offer and let the rest stand. Not your fault of somebody PM's you with an inquiry.
Greg </div></div>
+1 for what Greg said.
By the way #6 is a WI not W1 the part is from an Inland.
Donald
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not meaning to be a prick, but you should probably reread the site rules regarding number of posts and offering items for sale.
Me, I would edit out the last two sentences bit about the offer and let the rest stand. Not your fault of somebody PM's you with an inquiry.
Greg </div></div>
Re: M1 Carbine Rockola vs Underwood
Sorry Guys I am New to this group which is no excuse so only can offer apologies. In fact I had trouble finding where this post was on the forum!!!
How can I edit my post? Thanks for the help and hopefully your understanding of me the new guy.
Dan G.
Sorry Guys I am New to this group which is no excuse so only can offer apologies. In fact I had trouble finding where this post was on the forum!!!
How can I edit my post? Thanks for the help and hopefully your understanding of me the new guy.
Dan G.
Re: M1 Carbine Rockola vs Underwood
<span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">ETA: I inherited a Rock Ola last year, this is some information i had stored for research.</span></span></span>
Rock-Ola Manufacturing Company
-Main Manufacture & Identification Codes: "R" "Rock-Ola"
-Main Plant Location: Chicago, Illinois.
-Average Cost to Government per completed rifle, $58.00.
-Approximately 228,500 total Carbines were made by Rock-Ola: <span style="color: #FF0000">About 3.7% of M1 Carbines made.</span>--M1 Carbines 228,500 (Rock-Ola, did not make the M2, M3, T3, or M1A1 Carbines)
<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">they made the least amount of carbines which is why they are more desireable.</span></span>
-Serial number blocks assigned by the government:
--1st block, Serial number, 1,662,520 - 1,762,519| November, 1942 - November, 1943
--2nd block, Serial number, 4,532,100 - 4,632,099 | November, 1943 - March, 1943
--3rd block, Serial number, 6,071,189 - 6,099,688 | March, 1944 - April, 1944
--4th block, Serial number, 6,199,689 - 6,219,688 | April, 1944 - May, 1944
-Primary stock & hand guard supplier: Rock-Ola
-Barrel suppliers: Rock-Ola
-Parts made directly by Rock-Ola:
Bolts, receivers, barrels, stocks & hand guards, gas cylinders, extractors, firing pins, recoil plates, trigger housings, sears, triggers and slides
Side Notes:
--Rock-Ola only produced approximately 6,000 M1 Carbines in its first 6 months. Had a rejection rate of about 8%. Later Rock-Ola started meeting the Governments standards for quantity and quality.
--Rock-Ola was more known for there Jukeboxes.
-All matching vs how it left the factory:
****** There is a difference between an all matching carbine and how it left the factory, a lot of M1 Carbine contractors shipped parts to other Contractors. Just because its all matching doesn't necessary mean that is how it left the factory. So don't get super disappointing if your Carbine is not all matching, its possible its exactly how it was when it left the factory!!! An example say Underwood was low on sears, Inland would ship some Sears to them. Sometimes marked or unmarked. Here is some known shipments to Rock-Ola, how ever there could be more shipments that occurred that are unknown but this is a good reference. (most parts were shipped together in groups, magazine catches with sears, etc)
(Organized by year. 1942 - 1943)
-Inland shipped approximately 500 slides to Rock-Ola in 1942.
-Inland shipped approximately 1,500 bolts to Rock-Ola in 1943.
-Inland shipped approximately 2,000 receivers to Rock-Ola in 1943.
-Underwood shipped approximately 3,000 extractors to Rock-Ola in 1943.
-National Postal Meter shipped approximately 10,000 Front sights to Rock-Ola in 1943.
-National Postal Meter shipped approximately 1,000 bolts to Rock-Ola in 1943.
Example: You have an all matching Rock-Ola except slides that's marked Inland, there is a good chance it left the factory just like that!!!
<span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">ETA: I inherited a Rock Ola last year, this is some information i had stored for research.</span></span></span>
Rock-Ola Manufacturing Company
-Main Manufacture & Identification Codes: "R" "Rock-Ola"
-Main Plant Location: Chicago, Illinois.
-Average Cost to Government per completed rifle, $58.00.
-Approximately 228,500 total Carbines were made by Rock-Ola: <span style="color: #FF0000">About 3.7% of M1 Carbines made.</span>--M1 Carbines 228,500 (Rock-Ola, did not make the M2, M3, T3, or M1A1 Carbines)
<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">they made the least amount of carbines which is why they are more desireable.</span></span>
-Serial number blocks assigned by the government:
--1st block, Serial number, 1,662,520 - 1,762,519| November, 1942 - November, 1943
--2nd block, Serial number, 4,532,100 - 4,632,099 | November, 1943 - March, 1943
--3rd block, Serial number, 6,071,189 - 6,099,688 | March, 1944 - April, 1944
--4th block, Serial number, 6,199,689 - 6,219,688 | April, 1944 - May, 1944
-Primary stock & hand guard supplier: Rock-Ola
-Barrel suppliers: Rock-Ola
-Parts made directly by Rock-Ola:
Bolts, receivers, barrels, stocks & hand guards, gas cylinders, extractors, firing pins, recoil plates, trigger housings, sears, triggers and slides
Side Notes:
--Rock-Ola only produced approximately 6,000 M1 Carbines in its first 6 months. Had a rejection rate of about 8%. Later Rock-Ola started meeting the Governments standards for quantity and quality.
--Rock-Ola was more known for there Jukeboxes.
-All matching vs how it left the factory:
****** There is a difference between an all matching carbine and how it left the factory, a lot of M1 Carbine contractors shipped parts to other Contractors. Just because its all matching doesn't necessary mean that is how it left the factory. So don't get super disappointing if your Carbine is not all matching, its possible its exactly how it was when it left the factory!!! An example say Underwood was low on sears, Inland would ship some Sears to them. Sometimes marked or unmarked. Here is some known shipments to Rock-Ola, how ever there could be more shipments that occurred that are unknown but this is a good reference. (most parts were shipped together in groups, magazine catches with sears, etc)
(Organized by year. 1942 - 1943)
-Inland shipped approximately 500 slides to Rock-Ola in 1942.
-Inland shipped approximately 1,500 bolts to Rock-Ola in 1943.
-Inland shipped approximately 2,000 receivers to Rock-Ola in 1943.
-Underwood shipped approximately 3,000 extractors to Rock-Ola in 1943.
-National Postal Meter shipped approximately 10,000 Front sights to Rock-Ola in 1943.
-National Postal Meter shipped approximately 1,000 bolts to Rock-Ola in 1943.
Example: You have an all matching Rock-Ola except slides that's marked Inland, there is a good chance it left the factory just like that!!!
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