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M1 Garand seen this?

1maxhunter

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Minuteman
Nov 9, 2013
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posting this for a friend to see if anyone else has seen this or had this happen. It is a MM1 Garand built by MILTECH in California. the gun was being shot and it double tapped. it did it again and the rearmost portion of the receiver broke off and flew rearward. The load is Fed brass full length sized. Win LR primer. IMR 4895 @45.3 gr. Sierra 168gr HPBT @3.295OAL the gun has seen maybe 300 rounds threw it. We have herd that MILTECH reheat treats all its parts before final assembaly. Has anyone seen this happen on any other Garands? Any feed back on this would be great. Thanks .. image.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpg
 
Take a look at the edges. It looks like there was a crack there before it was reparkerized. That's something they should have caught when putting the rifle together. If they're still in business, they should cover it.

That sucks.
 
Are those rebuilt demilled receivers? Reason asking is this is what I just got off their site "superior grade materials and workmanship in the restoration process" . That restoration process is what is worrying me. Also, why else would they re heat treat?
 
That rifle slam fired.

That has happened before... there is a great photo in Billy Pyle's The Gas Trap Garand where some assclown was shooting a 100% original near mint gas trap and blew the shit out of it with a slam fire.. the rifle had it's original style firing pin (that was prone to breakage) and the tip broke and acted like a fixed firing pin.

Anyhow, the bolt struck the receiver heel with sufficient force the break the heel off the receiver. Probably should have stopped after the "double tap" ... the slam fire... and investigated the problem. Be thankful for modern eye protection.

I also load my M1s and M1As with CCI Number 34 primers.
 
Prior to 1943 that was an issue when Garands were used to fire grenades with a hot grenade blank. They annealed the rear of the receiver in the field by dipping the heel in molten lead.

If you see Garands pre 43 you can see the heat treat line of a lead dipped heel. Reparkerizing does not hide the field heat treat.

I think this is why WWII photos more often than not show the grenadier with an 03 to fire grenades.

Was your friend shooting mil spec M2 ammo or something commercial that might have been "hot"?

Just about any commercial standard load with a 155 or minus grain bullet is safe (with exception). Heavier bullets, unsuitable powder burn rates, heavy loads can cause what you have there.

....or they may have sold him an already deffective receiver.

I think my Garand is either in the 1.3 or 3 mil serial range (Springfield). Its Feb 43 and its post annealing. whats the serial/maker on that rifle?


Edit - A double tap can exceed the ability of the action to do its job. It happens quite often though to people that milk their triggers and not often does it result in what you have.


Edit - just checked some pics of mine the SN is a 1.9.
 
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The load specified in the OP is in the ball park, and IMR 4895 is a damn good powder for the M1.

The WLR primer could be the issue, there might have been some crap in the firing pin channel inside the bolt, the firing pin could have broken and lodged in the bolt face. That is where I would start looking.

One last thought... if there are any of the hand loads remaining, check the primer seating depth of the remaining cartridges.
 
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My typing diarrea was general stuff.

I load 168s with 45.6 of 4895 as do many others. A party on the CMP forum has modified a GC so that he can get pressure readings off various commercial/mil spec ammo and his conclusion is that these guns are not as fragile as some make them out to be regards bullet weight and powder burn rates.
 
An out of battery slam fire can do that, or not replacing the recoil spring often enough. Usually you will see a tiny crack there before anything else happens.

BTW miltech still has their website up so they are probably still around. I would definitely call them. Lots and lots and lots of people have garands that double tap etc on the range for one reason or another, very few have the rear of their receiver fall off...
 
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my garand was double tapping until I learned to follow through and keep the trigger pulled longer than the rifle cycled, I had an SA 1944, didnt break the receiver either. That is wilde.
cheers.
 
Guys thank you for all the good feed back..my friend is not a computer person..Yet.. we started a user name for him today so i will show him how to find this info.. He waited a year and a half for these rebuilt spec guns. he has had oprod issues and a silver solder issue on one of the guns also.so this makes the third issue on "like new " guns..
 
Guys thank you for all the good feed back..my friend is not a computer person..Yet.. we started a user name for him today so i will show him how to find this info.. He waited a year and a half for these rebuilt spec guns. he has had oprod issues and a silver solder issue on one of the guns also.so this makes the third issue on "like new " guns..

Could have saved himself some money and a lot of aggravation had he gone the CMP route.
 
I have had the double tap occur on a "new" CMP special M1 springfield. I called CMP and the armorer told me the ammo I was using, which was designed for the M1 (Federal AE3006M1), used commercial (i.e., soft) primers which would occasionally slam fire in an M1. I bought some CMP Greek 30-06 which has the hard primers and haven't had a slam fire since.
 
I have had the double tap occur on a "new" CMP special M1 springfield. I called CMP and the armorer told me the ammo I was using, which was designed for the M1 (Federal AE3006M1), used commercial (i.e., soft) primers which would occasionally slam fire in an M1. I bought some CMP Greek 30-06 which has the hard primers and haven't had a slam fire since.

I fire Win primers, which are showing to be very soft in my .223, but have had no issues in my Garand through some 500 or so rounds. Ive fired older Federal cheapy 30-06 M2 spec with no issue.

I think the tendency of the Garand to push than pull on recoil requires a good follow through on the trigger or it becomes its own bump fire device.
 
Well the CMP route if its what i think your saying is Civilian Marksmanship Program. if you want a Garand to have a Garand that is just fine. BUT i have NEAVER seen one given out that looks,or been redone the way that these have been done! This a whole other issue then saying you should just get a CMP gun. Whats to say that one or more of those guns has ever taken a shit out in the world of shooting. PMCLAINE thanks for your input but this topic might be a little more involved then you are..
 
I fire Win primers, which are showing to be very soft in my .223, but have had no issues in my Garand through some 500 or so rounds. Ive fired older Federal cheapy 30-06 M2 spec with no issue.

I think the tendency of the Garand to push than pull on recoil requires a good follow through on the trigger or it becomes its own bump fire device.
Good to know, next time I fire my M1 I will pay attention to trigger follow through and recoil characteristics of the rifle.
 
Well the CMP route if its what i think your saying is Civilian Marksmanship Program. if you want a Garand to have a Garand that is just fine. BUT i have NEAVER seen one given out that looks,or been redone the way that these have been done! This a whole other issue then saying you should just get a CMP gun. Whats to say that one or more of those guns has ever taken a shit out in the world of shooting. PMCLAINE thanks for your input but this topic might be a little more involved then you are..

Dude CMP specials are brand new guns basically. You havent really spent any time seeing the guns that come out of the CMP and you dont know of the customer service the CMP provides.

Ill go back to the shallow end of the pool with my Garand

Receiver2.jpg


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Service grade specials were about $900. Described as "as new, GI finish, all GI parts gun" with CMP repro replacement stock.

CMP specials are about $1000. Described as "refinished, rebuilt totally spec guns with brand new Criterion barrels and repro CMP wood"

CMP will get on their knees to make a customer happy.

Service grade guns are $695 or there abouts. My gun was likely a service grade someone dressed in fancy wood before I bougt it at my honey hole for $950.

CMP is customising/rebuilding Garands, regardless of where purchased. Have your pal buy a receiver from them, send his complete paper weight to them. They will replace, rebuild, repark and he will be back in the game.

Ill be surprised if Miltech doesnt claim he abused the gun and refuses to stand behind it.
 
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By the way what are Miltechs selling for?

...oh just looked it up $1895!

well i think you get a pretty box with it. CMP guns only come with a plastic case, blood, sweat, glory and cosmoline.
 
Someone is giving some wrong info here
Garand receiver heals were not annealed because of firing grenades. They were annealed/lead dipped becuase of a bad batch of brittle steel. When grenades are fired the bolt does not even cycle becuase of the poppet gas lock and grande launcher
Before this grenades were launched with the 1903

To the OP's question, on almost every Garand I have seen damaged it was someone who was using reloads.Do you have any pics of the fired case?

You can order a grade C receiver from CMP for $125, there will be some pitting and may have light heel stamps
 
Someone is giving some wrong info here
Garand receiver heals were not annealed because of firing grenades. They were annealed/lead dipped becuase of a bad batch of brittle steel. When grenades are fired the bolt does not even cycle becuase of the poppet gas lock and grande launcher
Before this grenades were launched with the 1903

To the OP's question, on almost every Garand I have seen damaged it was someone who was using reloads.Do you have any pics of the fired case?

You can order a grade C receiver from CMP for $125, there will be some pitting and may have light heel stamps

I am the bad info man in question and dont doubt your knowledge one bit. My info is via the all knowing internet - garbage in garbage out.

If it was brittle steel odd they didnt do the same routine they performed with the low number 03's. More related to the raw material problem rather than the heat treating I guess and annealing was found to correct it?

Did the early guns have the poppet gas valve? I thought that came later and was another modification to protect the rifle.
 
Early Garands did not have Poppet gas screw but single slot . As I stated above before this grenades were fired with the 1903.
Go to Bill Riccas web site and it is all explained there on the annealing and grenade myth
 
Thank you for the information I will contact cmp. Thanks for taking the time to help..
I also want to take the time to thank all in the forum for all the help you gave me with the great information. Once again thanks.
 
Early Garands did not have Poppet gas screw but single slot . As I stated above before this grenades were fired with the 1903.
Go to Bill Riccas web site and it is all explained there on the annealing and grenade myth

For all interested from Bill Riccas Page of Myths...........

Grenade Launching and Annealed M1 Receivers

Myth: During the early days to launching rifle grenades off the Garand, the solid lock screw provided so much pressure that the bolt would hit the rear of the receiver causing cracks. The correction was the vented lock screw and annealing the receivers.

Facts: This myth is due to lack of knowledge of the M7 Grenade Launcher and its development. The M7's design was a mixture of corrections applied to Remington's T14 Grenade Launcher. Remington's launcher, along with other competing designs, had a method of venting the gas system to prevent the build up a large amounts of gas pressure and volume. One of the main specifications of the M7 was that it could not be mounted on the Garand with the solid lock screw installed. The stud of the M7 is too wide to fit a solid lock screw. Once installed with a vented lock screw, large amounts of gas are vented into the atmosphere. I repeat what is stated in the myth dealing with cracked op rods:

Anyone who has launched inert rifle grenades will tell you that the op rod moves about 1/2 inch rearward, that's all. The reason is, there is not enough gas pressure to operate the system. Thus the bolt will never reach the rear of the receiver with an M7 Launcher installed on a Garand.

Annealing of the receivers had nothing to do with launching rifle grenades. The current thinking is the annealing occurred due to a change in the steel used in production of the receivers.
 
Thank you for the information I will contact cmp. Thanks for taking the time to help..
I also want to take the time to thank all in the forum for all the help you gave me with the great information. Once again thanks.

Before ordering a receiver, spend some time on the CMP forum and see what is being shipped. Many are fairly well pitted above and below the woodline with very faint stampings ,some are real nice. I ordered these three and only one had pitting below the woodline . I think I got pretty lucky
If mine had arrived in condition some have received I would not have used them for builds, just to much pitting for my taste
They are priced cheap at $125 I just want you to know what you may end up with and dont want you to be dissapointed
 
Holy Guacamole! I have never personally seen such a failure from the Garand or the M14 for that matter. I know it happens to be sure. The OP mentions reloads and full length resizing. That's a good start but maybe a small base would have been the way to go. I used the full length small base for my rapids stage as insurance in the 14. Always be sure that the primer pockets are nice and clean and uniformed. The primer should be below flush after seating. IMR 4895 is the right burn rate, they got that right. I had a double tap and that was due to a lazy trigger finger. Never happened again. These old rifles are robust and always get alot of attention at the range. Follow proper and safe reloading procedures and you'll do fine. CMP has all their shit in one bucket. Top notch and courteous even when they are swamped, which will be in about 1 week. In the end, I am glad to hear the owner is O.K. Good luck and good shooting!

Doug
 
I haven't taken my Garand apart in years, but the bolt should not contact the back of the reciever during the extraction cycle. I thought the rearward travel was controled by the ops rod contacting the front of the reciever much like a M1A. Did the lug on the bolt where it tracks in the ops rod break? Something esle failed.
 
I haven't taken my Garand apart in years, but the bolt should not contact the back of the reciever during the extraction cycle. I thought the rearward travel was controled by the ops rod contacting the front of the reciever much like a M1A. .

The Garand bolt actually contacts the receiver heel when fired. Look at the back of a used receiver/bolt , you will see worn park and contact
If you Op Rod spring is weak or a hot load it can slam the heel.
The same with the M1A Bolt, it also contacts the receiver heel
 
Not every double izza slamfire. There's jar-off of a badly worn/"tuned" trigger, "bump" firing when the slowly squeezing trigger finger is in the no-man's land between squeezed follow through and really being released, and the various ways the fining pin by itself (or a very high primer) can light things up.

Jar-off and bump firing ALWAYS involve a hammer that was held back by either the safety sear or the primary sear or if things are working correctly, both in sequence. THEN the hammer falls and fires the cartridge normally. A hammer held back gives the bolt time to lock fully closed. Neither is truly a problem for the survival of an M1 Garand because all the parts go through the full firing cycle. Less time between shots is the only difference between those and "regular" semiauto fire.

AFAIAC, those are not truly slam-fires. But people call box magazines "clips" all the time, too.

Problems arise when it is one of several types of firing pin problems or high primer problems that fires the round. There is the firing pin bouncing around and striking the primer--a very, very low-frequency event because without excessive receiver bridge/firing pin tang (or both) wear because that receiver bridge retracts the FP the last 1/10-inch or less of forward bolt travel. FP stops, bolt finishes going forward. But that is before the lugs rotate locked. A broken firing pin pretty much has to stay stuck forward protruding for this to fire the round because with less mass on the forward part that CAN reach the firing pin, you need more speed than the feed portion of the cycle gives you. This is the most disastrous slam-fire because only inertia and spring pressure resist the bolt flying backwards. That means the bolt flies back way, way too soon and some nasty-high-pressure gas breaches the case and then proceeds to hammer the rest of the entire receiver group and usually splinters the stock.

The Garand's firing pin was made lighter somewhere between the prototypes and the beginning of the gas plug design, IIRC. This was because even with the FP retraction function, that long piece of steel (at least compared to the M14 version), oddities of bouncing and harmonics and for all I know bad Karma could sometimes combine to bounce that firing pin into the primer with enough force to fire the cartridge. This *normally* can happen ONLY if the bolt is rotated at least half-way locked because the FP tang is still held back from any contact with the primer by the receiver bridge camming surface the first half or so of bolt rotation.

By the way, anything prematurely dropping the hammer *should* never result in firing the round unless the bolt is almost completely locked. The first thing that happens when the bolt unlocks is the hammer nose getting cammed back by a camming surface on the rear of the bolt. Not rotated closed = hammer cannot hit the firing pin...unless there's some huge amount of wear or a broken off hammer nose. Never seen any of those in my life, but it is conceivable.

So when there were a LOT of Garands being fired at matches and getting worn out and people were using Federal primers in match loads and all that in the 1980s, there was a notable number of Garand slam-fires with bolts only halfway locked and one of the big wheels at the Rifle and Handloader magazines started calling worn-out Garands "hand grenades". This type of slam-fire also occurred with much less frequency in the more common (at that time) M14 platform, but they did happen. One common factor for many of these was single-loading with the round fully in the chamber AND letting the bolt forward full speed. The plausible theory is that denying the feed system the benefit of stripping the round from the clip or magazine led to excessive forward bolt speed, leading to a lot more firing pin rattle as the bolt was rotating, and whatever other mysterious factors there were all lining up like bad stars in the Zodiac, with the end result being the firing pin striking and igniting the primer with enough force to fire the rifle.

There is a very high likelihood that a true slam-fire will result in excessive bolt and op rod speed, which of course can damage the receiver heel. A locked-hammer double won't result in that because the between shots dwell time is long enough not only for the bolt to close, but for the op rod to go the rest of the way forward to its firing position.

Now, anyone who has a double with any rifle and does not IMMEDIATELY inspect the trigger group for proper sear engagement and functions before firing it again earns any bad consequences that follow.

All that said (I started this last night but went to bed and then to church and a meeting and had lunch today, so I don't know what else has been posted...), I strongly suspect that the broken receiver is a QC/materials/workmanship problem unrelated to the doubling. I will retract this opinion as quickly as the rotating bolt retracts the firing pin tang in a properly-dimensioned Garand IF subsequent investigation shows that the receiver was restored or whatever to have the receiver bridge too close to the receiver ring, making all firing pin retraction and safety functions inoperable--but ONLY if there is also evidence that the bolt was not fully rotated to the locked position when the last round was fired.