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Man Fired Over The Shirt He Wore to Vote

I agree that's a moving target, but theoretically the shooter and the target (meaning both exist in society) are moving together.

Our Constitution is D-E-A-D, but words like "cruel and unusual" do drift and change meaning over time. Some change needs to be built in, and some things need to be made static. "Reasonable Person" does change over time, and that's a good thing.

As to burning witches; it is entirely reasonable to burn a Bride of Satan who casts spells that make crops fail, people fall ill, and who invites demons to possess her neighbors. The only reasonable course is to immediately destroy such a person with fire. Whether these actually exist or not is the question. How to treat them if they do is entirely reasonable! ;)
 
I clearly overestimated your depth. Sorry.

Not having majored in Queer Latin American Studies is a poor defense for my paucity of intellectual wherewithal in this regard. I beseech you to accept my humble apologies for my poor academic preparation.
 
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Nah. Hypothetically of course, Stool softener+diuretics + ativan+morphine+ ship them Out of your unit. They pass out and piss/shit themselves, and some else deals with it. Also known as the flying J.

 
I'm not so sure, most of the better jobs I have ever had I was required to sign a form saying that I understood that I could be fired if I did anything to embarrass the company.

That's just it. As much as I disagree with my terms/restrictions of employment, I signed up on my own and knew going in what was expected of me. Kinda like when I swore into the military in 80. Same same, but different.
 
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My point is if the press did not have an axe to grind the company would not have been embarrassed. I'll bet there were some other pretty bad dressers on voting day. Some with messages that may have been pushing the boundaries of good taste. Where are they?
 
I could care less what the guy thinks, but if he's going to broadcast it and it effects my business he's gone. It's that simple. No employee has the right to hurt their employer, and the rest of the arguments are irrelevant noise. He has every right to wear that shirt and to express his opinions, and I have every right to fire him if it hurts me. Nothing more, and nothing less.

That's it. Seriously. End of discusdion ESPECIALLY when you add AT WILL EMPLOYEE. There's nothing left after this. But carry on.
 
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They say they're taking the matter seriously and are "committed to a safe, secure and comfortable environment for its patients, guests and employees."

Any time you see the word "safe", watch out because you are getting fucked somehow
 
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I gotta say in most cases I'd come down on his side BUT a noose on a confederate flag,in the South ..... His company has rights too, and aside from being associated with the guy, his judgement and decision-making ability is certainly questionable at best. Having said that, I would defend his right to wear that shirt all day long in terms legal free speech but that does not mean he can't be fired. The guy is a moron.
 
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Hi,


Agree Max....this is not a free speech issue but rather an Employers right to "Fire at will".

So let us look at this from another light...
We all know what a wearer of this shirt is portraying when we see someone in this shirt?
1541797069607.png


We also know what wearer of the shirt in question at the voting booth was portraying (knowingly or unknowingly is up to him)....let's not act like we can only perceive a shirts message when it is something we agree on.

Sincerely,
Theis
 
dAAA PRoBlemm Aas Ah CC Itt Iz Daa WHiTE-A$$$$$ MAyn Had uH HuStle. Yo niggas gots ta werk up in dat hospital an' dis here brudda going ta bring da hood up in dere foo' all ye damn hood ratz..
 
As a Libertarian I obviously value mine and everyone else's freedom and liberty, but I have noticed a very disconcerting thing going on with those who are hiding behind the First Amendment rather than standing up for it. The First Amendment needs to be exercised with common sense because all actions can and lots of times do have consequences. Hence the story this thread is about and also that story a couple years ago about the land management worker who made monkey noises and said the word nigger at a protest in PA. No violence on anyone's part, but social media being what it is tracked down and had the man fired because of what he did when he wasn't even on the clock. And then there's idiots like Antifa who think they're free to beat the shit out of people who don't agree with them on whatever. Probably the worst I see everyday first hand is the streams I hang out at where people are just saying crazy shit in the stream chats such as calling everyone faggots and saying to gas all the Jews and shit like that. I couldn't care less if it was just a bunch of retired guys, but lots of these guys are high school and college aged kids who are just saying that shit because they're trying to be edgy. They don't realize that shit you say on the internet stays there forever and thanks to social media, it's not hard for people to be tracked down and future employers get ahold of that info and decide they don't want to deal with someone like that working for them and then you have a new generation of people sponging off welfare because they are incapable of getting a job thanks to dumb shit they did on the internet.

Enjoy freedom and liberty because many died for it, but like with a cold beer, enjoy it responsibly.
 
Yo Libertarians is not fo' nahh brothers when da last tyme we's see one o' deez morons he`p an African out what 'chew trippin foo'
 
Hi,


Agree Max....this is not a free speech issue but rather an Employers right to "Fire at will".

So let us look at this from another light...
We all know what a wearer of this shirt is portraying when we see someone in this shirt?
View attachment 6968216

We also know what wearer of the shirt in question at the voting booth was portraying (knowingly or unknowingly is up to him)....let's not act like we can only perceive a shirts message when it is something we agree on.

Sincerely,
Theis

I actually don’t know what that shirt means.
 
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I am sure we will see folks wearing NRA hats getting fired soon. Apples to oranges but it will happen.

https://www.quora.com/Is-displaying...tickers-etc-an-implicit-means-of-intimidation


Is displaying NRA hats, signs, bumper stickers, etc. an implicit means of intimidation?



Dorthe Furstrand Lauritzen
, From Denmark where arms are not in sight and my views would not be controversial
Answered Oct 14, 2016 · Author has 185 answers and 214.1k answer views



It would intimidate me!
What a surprisingly onesided line of answers. Is it intimidating? Hell yeah! Is it meant to be or are the wearer just not realizing that the world is bigger than their backyard? I better not answer that.
I am European, where wearing arms in everyday society (not on a range or hunting) is concieved as a very threatening act, unacceptable by civilized people. The idea of walking around ordenary people with concieled arms is shit scary. I would walk around thinking I might get shot at any time, if I said or did something wrong. I would assume a higher risk of a concieled arm if a person wore NRA-merchandise.
But that is not the scary part. The scary part to me is the NRA itself. An antidemocratic extremist organisation (maybe even religious extremism) that is partly responsable for the de facto oligarchy in the US that has taken over a once great and still very powerful democracy. To have that power over government and to do that by arms is a very aggressive premis for an organisation and it scares me.
You might get offended by my emotions, but they are mine and I can’t help them. I come from a democratic society, build on the christian values of solidarity and equality. NRA represents the opposite of that and that is intimidating. Whether the wearer of the merchandise realize it or not.
 
IMO, free speech is free speech. I don't give a fuck if he wore a BLATANTLY racist shirt to vote. It's his life, he can do what he wants. He isn't at work. They don't own him. This shit NEVER happened when I was younger. It's just that fascist march towards totalitarianism that this country seems dead set on reaching.

Was it bad taste? Yeah, I think so. But I also see an uneducated public cherry picking shit when they get butt hurt. See, almost every southern state's flag WAS their CSA battle flag. Bars and stars and been on AL license plate when I was young. Don't recall anyone bitching about that.

How about using UCMJ for a guide on this? UCMJ is generally lot more heavy handed. Army doesn't care what you say, what you do, but you can't do it in uniform and you can't talk to media about the military without going through the PR guy, who usually does the talking himself (I'm talking outside of OPSEC). A soldier could have worn this to vote and not a damn thing would have happened.

All the good jobs I had, I had put in a contract. They couldn't fire me except under certain circumstances directly related to the job. They gave us uniforms and allowances to buy our own too, so when I showed up to a job, I wore their logo. I was representing them directly at that point. Every thing is yes sir, no maam. When I parked that van though, I could do whatever the fuck I wanted and none of it was their business.

I don't know, but I think it'd be a crying shame if that business burned down. Shit happens, karma and all.
 
https://www.quora.com/Is-displaying...tickers-etc-an-implicit-means-of-intimidation


Is displaying NRA hats, signs, bumper stickers, etc. an implicit means of intimidation?



Dorthe Furstrand Lauritzen
, From Denmark where arms are not in sight and my views would not be controversial
Answered Oct 14, 2016 · Author has 185 answers and 214.1k answer views



It would intimidate me!
What a surprisingly onesided line of answers. Is it intimidating? Hell yeah! Is it meant to be or are the wearer just not realizing that the world is bigger than their backyard? I better not answer that.
I am European, where wearing arms in everyday society (not on a range or hunting) is concieved as a very threatening act, unacceptable by civilized people. The idea of walking around ordenary people with concieled arms is shit scary. I would walk around thinking I might get shot at any time, if I said or did something wrong. I would assume a higher risk of a concieled arm if a person wore NRA-merchandise.
But that is not the scary part. The scary part to me is the NRA itself. An antidemocratic extremist organisation (maybe even religious extremism) that is partly responsable for the de facto oligarchy in the US that has taken over a once great and still very powerful democracy. To have that power over government and to do that by arms is a very aggressive premis for an organisation and it scares me.
You might get offended by my emotions, but they are mine and I can’t help them. I come from a democratic society, build on the christian values of solidarity and equality. NRA represents the opposite of that and that is intimidating. Whether the wearer of the merchandise realize it or not.

I doubt she'd notice my shirt for the big ass pistol on my hip.
 
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https://www.quora.com/Is-displaying...tickers-etc-an-implicit-means-of-intimidation


Is displaying NRA hats, signs, bumper stickers, etc. an implicit means of intimidation?



Dorthe Furstrand Lauritzen
, From Denmark where arms are not in sight and my views would not be controversial
Answered Oct 14, 2016 · Author has 185 answers and 214.1k answer views



It would intimidate me!
What a surprisingly onesided line of answers. Is it intimidating? Hell yeah! Is it meant to be or are the wearer just not realizing that the world is bigger than their backyard? I better not answer that.
I am European, where wearing arms in everyday society (not on a range or hunting) is concieved as a very threatening act, unacceptable by civilized people. The idea of walking around ordenary people with concieled arms is shit scary. I would walk around thinking I might get shot at any time, if I said or did something wrong. I would assume a higher risk of a concieled arm if a person wore NRA-merchandise.
But that is not the scary part. The scary part to me is the NRA itself. An antidemocratic extremist organisation (maybe even religious extremism) that is partly responsable for the de facto oligarchy in the US that has taken over a once great and still very powerful democracy. To have that power over government and to do that by arms is a very aggressive premis for an organisation and it scares me.
You might get offended by my emotions, but they are mine and I can’t help them. I come from a democratic society, build on the christian values of solidarity and equality. NRA represents the opposite of that and that is intimidating. Whether the wearer of the merchandise realize it or not.
He lost me at “I am European”...
 
How about using UCMJ for a guide on this? UCMJ is generally lot more heavy handed. Army doesn't care what you say, what you do, but you can't do it in uniform and you can't talk to media about the military without going through the PR guy, who usually does the talking himself (I'm talking outside of OPSEC). A soldier could have worn this to vote and not a damn thing would have happened.

Hi,

Maybe back in the day but not now lol....Take this article on Fort Leonard Woods clothing and appearance policy. It even controls spouse and children.
https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2014/11/21/post-cracks-down-on-skimpy-clothes-facial-hair/

Sincerely,
Theis
 
There are limitations to FOE/FOS. You can't walk around with your Johnson peaking out wearing a Confederate Kepi, Yell FIRE in a crowded Atlanta theater, or call someone a racist halfway through a fight over state rights (rats). Fucking Carpet baggers. It was a conditional surrender. The rebel gets to wear his shirt off the clock.
 
I’m just beyond tired of people saying the confederate flag is racist. I grew up south (Texas) and am sure I was taught a different (dare I say truer without sounding narsisistic) version of history. The civil war was about power and control. Slavery was a side issue. Just like Mexicans taught a totally different version of the Alamo than Texans are.. the noose is a bit much though.
 
There have been recent unpleasantness' over MAGA hats..... people were offended.

Once upon a time white people wearing FUBU shirts was considered offensive.

Couple hours searching, find Mississippi Justice shirts for sale from several vendors on line.

Unlike the post above with the wiki link to III% , I found no like to the birth of the "Mississippi Justice" shirt.

Haters will be haters.

Offenders will offend.

People will be offended based on culture, preferences, appearances, beliefs, anything that doesnt represent "them" or "theirs".

And division grows wider, because intolerance grows as the offended gain traction. History shows what happens when one group gets tired of constantly being pushed into a corner.

People who moved away, were titled "xx" separatists and maligned for being separatist. There are fewer and fewer places left to move to...
Eventually home schooling will come under fire because it doesnt toe the politically correct line that grows daily.

Somebody out there is pushing a "you cant be you" agenda.

It's a very slippery slope to individual freedoms.

Right now, "you cant be you" and "work here" is acceptable.
And to most people, reasonable.

Until they tell you, you cant , say for extreme example, "you cant own guns and work here"....
Then it's not ok anymore to gun owners.

Anybody here believe that shit isnt coming ???

I said nothing when they came for xx because I wasnt xx.
Repeat with different names in xx several times.
Then they came for me, and there was nobody left to say for me....

I may offend you. Tough shit. Get over it. GFYS.

Or, "yas suh, massa".....

The dividing line grows thinner.

Read the comments in "Mass Shootings and PTSD" ....
 
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I will use common sense and not wear an offensive tee shirt in public, even though legal.

I will use common sense and not open carry and offend the fearful, even though legal...

Choices, choices...
 
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In the end he was just a spec of dust in the universe lynched and harmed for a cause. He received his trial by public opinion was sentenced to hang and he did.

Who's life benefited? Did any less Black people get shot in Chicago? Was racism ended or lessened? No they were not. All that happened was a man was destroyed by one misguided act of Liberty and Freedom. God help us.
 
I support your right to be as stupid or ugly as you see fit, off the clock. I see the shirt for what it is. If you manage to put the business in a position where senior leadership must publicly discuss your ugliness, intentionally or accidentally, I support how the company would typically move to represent/ defend the position of the company. He wore something offensive and the offended got him. Being a known pervert, he’s harder to defend.
 
I support your right to be as stupid or ugly as you see fit, off the clock. I see the shirt for what it is. If you manage to put the business in a position where senior leadership must publicly discuss your ugliness, intentionally or accidentally, I support how the company would typically move to represent/ defend the position of the company. He wore something offensive and the offended got him.

Being a known pervert, he’s harder to defend.

Separate the person from the incident....

You dont defend the pervert... you defend the freedom to be you.

The job is telling you how you can act when you arent on the job, the job owns you. You cant be you.

I gave that job 30 years, 7 months, and 4 days. I know off job restrictions. Very well...
At some point political correctness is no longer acceptable when it crushes your freedom in your own home, in your private life, and in your ability to enjoy the fruits of your labor, in caveat, when you are doing absolutely zero illegal in that pursuit.

Otherwise, they own you. Once you lose sight of that, you lose the rest.
 
Separate the person from the incident....

You dont defend the pervert... you defend the freedom to be you.

The job is telling you how you can act when you arent on the job, the job owns you. You cant be you.

I gave that job 30 years, 7 months, and 4 days. I know off job restrictions. Very well...
At some point political correctness is no longer acceptable when it crushes your freedom in your own home, in your private life, and in your ability to enjoy the fruits of your labor, in caveat, when you are doing absolutely zero illegal in that pursuit.

Otherwise, they own you. Once you lose sight of that, you lose the rest.
They don’t own him, they own the company. The company has to operate in the culture of the public light. The company may not like it, but it’s the reality of the day. If they owned him, they would simply recalibrate him to current operating perameters or place him in the incinerator. They released him into the wild. This is a poetic act of love in literature. You’re free to dive without a suit and I prefer it, but right now the water is very cold. While the water’s cold, we should make choices with that in mind.
 
They don’t own him, they own the company. The company has to operate in the culture of the public light. The company may not like it, but it’s the reality of the day. If they owned him, they would simply recalibrate him to current operating perameters or place him in the incinerator. They released him into the wild. This is a poetic act of love in literature. You’re free to dive without a suit and I prefer it, but right now the water is very cold. While the water’s cold, we should make choices with that in mind.

And I made that choice freely, to dive, and work under those restrictions 30/7/4.... I gave them ownership of my off time, and was paid well for it.
None of their restrictions were beyond offensive to me up until the last couple of years, when a off duty, in plain clothes, "fuck you" in comraderie to my best friend in an open parking lot, would get you fired. Or laughing at a joke several females told in your presence, when they laughed louder than you, and the frigid bitch down the hall complained that "you", not the women, laughed at an inappropriate joke, and I could go on...

As a ranking staff member, I knew what was coming, I sat through enough continuing ed classes to know that soon enough, in any public service job, the worker would become an autonom with no private personality allowed. Either on duty or off, and we are there now.

It is now, "the is"...
 
If you wear a shirt that basically says “ I support the lunching of ni— ers.” You are technically within your rights. It is offensive and in poor taste. It is an invitation to physical attack. The event is how he was attacked. The company was the stick that he was beaten with and had little choice. He’s not in any trouble with the government. He still has his stupid shirt. He’s as free as he was in October.
 
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I will use common sense and not wear an offensive tee shirt in public, even though legal.

I will use common sense and not open carry and offend the fearful, even though legal...

Choices, choices...
i live my life doing what I want to do.....not what others want me to do.

you dont want to wear a shirt...dont wear it.

you dont want to OC....dont OC.

but dont not live your life the way you want because some pussy might get offended over it.

people are going to find a reason to be offended no matter what you do.....so you might as well do what you want.
 
I don't defend him I defend his right. I wonder why is the press not accountable?

If freedom of the Press is absolute, then so should be freedom of Speech absolute. Just as Keep and Bear Arms should be absolute. How come the first is absolute, and the other two are not? Why can the press damage him but he can't sue them? That was not news it was incitement. Stupid is not uncommon or news.
 
Honest question: Does the noose on the flag have any other reasonable connotation other than to involk imaginary of blacks being lynched? This is what came to my mind but I’m a Northerner. Is there any known record of this symbolism being involked for some other meaning?

If not, I find the conflation of OC with this tee-shirt utterly absurd. This supports the lefist notion that the mere sight of a holstered sidearm equates to violent imagery. That’s Hollywood and CNN. We have done ourselves a grave disservice by perpetuating this myth. Allowing Hollywood and the news dictate how and when guns are seen does us no good whatsoever.

The gay movement (the Spartans of political and cultural warfare) came OUT of the closet they did not go in. We would do well to take a page from their winning playbook.

6D369C6E-D00F-47B2-AE4B-97A3B32CC500.jpeg
 
As to burning witches; it is entirely reasonable to burn a Bride of Satan who casts spells that make crops fail, people fall ill, and who invites demons to possess her neighbors. The only reasonable course is to immediately destroy such a person with fire. Whether these actually exist or not is the question. How to treat them if they do is entirely reasonable! ;)

Casting spells to make crops fail, people get ill and a bit of demonic possession is for amateurs.

True servants of a Deity view that as child's play.

If you study most of the ancient religious texts, the populace is lucky if all they got was failed crops and illness....
Pick most any old religious text: Jewish texts, European texts, Norse texts, Asian texts, middle eastern texts, African texts, they kind of read a bit like a horror movie if you happened to be one of the local populace of unfortunate extras....
 
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The gay movement (the Spartans of political and cultural warfare) came OUT of the closet they did not go in. We would do well to take a page from their winning playbook.

There is one big difference however. The "Gay" movement had a huge amount of propaganda support from the Communists in this country, as well as their stooges in the Entertainment and "News" industry. Decades of laying the foundations and softening people up. Some could even argue using the pornography industry to soften up acceptance for other things.

So it's a lot harder for those fighting for freedom, as all those same propaganda tools used to help the "Gay" movement triumph, are fully arrayed against the cause of freedom and most freedom fighters have no idea how to play in the world of manipulating public opinion with huge piles of money.
 
Casting spells to make crops fail, people get ill and a bit of demonic possession is for amateurs.

True servants of a Deity view that as child's play.

If you study most of the ancient religious texts, the populace is lucky if all they got was failed crops and illness....
Pick most any old religious text: Jewish texts, European texts, Norse texts, Asian texts, middle eastern texts, African texts, they kind of read a bit like a horror movie if you happened to be one of the local populace of unfortunate extras....


Well truth be told, a lot of real-life during those time periods, was a horror story. We take so much for granted.....
 
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There is one big difference however. The "Gay" movement had a huge amount of propaganda support from the Communists in this country, as well as their stooges in the Entertainment and "News" industry. Decades of laying the foundations and softening people up. Some could even argue using the pornography industry to soften up acceptance for other things.

So it's a lot harder for those fighting for freedom, as all those same propaganda tools used to help the "Gay" movement triumph, are fully arrayed against the cause of freedom and most freedom fighters have no idea how to play in the world of manipulating public opinion with huge piles of money.

The plain fact is that we hide in the closet too much and we are too tolerant. Fuck with the “Spartans” and they WILL boycott. We yawn......

The “Spartans” treat their issue like a civil right. We pretent to treat ours like a a civil right.

If gun owners became utterly intolerant of businesses turning against us, our collective spending power would be a game changer. More and more businesses like LL Bean, REI Jax in Colorado, Levis Jeans, Fed ex piss on us and we yawn. “Oh I dont shop there anyway” or some stupid shit. Dicks fucked us big time in 2013 and gun owners kept shopping there. Not me. Now they seem to have finally noticed. Try that with the “Spartans” and you will be out of business......
 
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And I made that choice freely, to dive, and work under those restrictions 30/7/4.... I gave them ownership of my off time, and was paid well for it.
None of their restrictions were beyond offensive to me up until the last couple of years, when a off duty, in plain clothes, "fuck you" in comraderie to my best friend in an open parking lot, would get you fired. Or laughing at a joke several females told in your presence, when they laughed louder than you, and the frigid bitch down the hall complained that "you", not the women, laughed at an inappropriate joke, and I could go on...

As a ranking staff member, I knew what was coming, I sat through enough continuing ed classes to know that soon enough, in any public service job, the worker would become an autonom with no private personality allowed. Either on duty or off, and we are there now.

It is now, "the is"...
The example you've given is just your in house version of this same shit/different location.

R
 
Honest question: Does the noose on the flag have any other reasonable connotation other than to involk imaginary of blacks being lynched? This is what came to my mind but I’m a Northerner. Is there any known record of this symbolism being involked for some other meaning?

If not, I find the conflation of OC with this tee-shirt utterly absurd. This supports the lefist notion that the mere sight of a holstered sidearm equates to violent imagery. That’s Hollywood and CNN. We have done ourselves a grave disservice by perpetuating this myth. Allowing Hollywood and the news dictate how and when guns are seen does us no good whatsoever.
...

Yes. Swift justice and no tollarence for degenerates. Similar to what you might consider justice in westerns. I doubt lynching blacks was a popular sport during the Confederacy. That'd be like setting your tractor on fire because it had a flat tire.

I agree with you 100% on open carry.
 
He was fired for being off the plantation without a pass. The shirt was a sign of what is happening inside there.
 
The idea of walking around ordenary people with concieled arms is shit scary. I would walk around thinking I might get shot at any time said:
Well at least the euro trash got one opinion right. More guns equals better behavior!
 
Freedom of speech does not mean what many (even on this board) think it means.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Read the words...
 
Freedom of speech does not mean what many (even on this board) think it means.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Read the words...
I've read the amendment.
When it's applied in an uneven fashion you'll get threads/arguments like this.
Examples:
1. Man decides to take a knee while the national anthem is playing while on the clock/job.
result: Media and employer decide he is off limits to be held accountable for his 1st amendment rights.
2. Man, not at work or during a work day, goes to vote wearing a shirt some find offensive.
Result: Court of public opinion has him tried and sentenced.

This argument is about the obvious double standard being applied as a result of media backing and perceived offence.

ps- I know it's really to keep your government from oppressing your speech.

R