Rifle Scopes Mil/Mil
- Thread starter Pointman308
- Start date
Re: Scope Marketing Hub Bub
So.... you see no worthwhile advantage to having adjustments that match the reticle?
What about rapidly engaging targets at different ranges using holds? You will waste time converting MOA to Mils.
Your view is seriously flawed.
So.... you see no worthwhile advantage to having adjustments that match the reticle?
What about rapidly engaging targets at different ranges using holds? You will waste time converting MOA to Mils.
Your view is seriously flawed.
Re: Scope Marketing Hub Bub
Easy,
you can place the reticle on one side of a target, dial the clicks until it moves to the other side of the target, there you have the information as to how many .1 mils the target is...
But that isn't the question, or the statement made, it's about 1 number that does both, works with your adjustments or your reticle, one stream line number that only need go to 12.... (for a 308)
Ranging is secondary at best as most have lasers... but for speed and ease, knowing your DOPE in Mils streamlines the process regardless if you hold or dial. On overwatch and see a target peek out, hold the reticle the appropriate adjustment and fire, or that same number can be dialed. No conversation no looking down, or away, just memorize it... it's only 10 numbers and nothing bigger than 12.
Easy,
you can place the reticle on one side of a target, dial the clicks until it moves to the other side of the target, there you have the information as to how many .1 mils the target is...
But that isn't the question, or the statement made, it's about 1 number that does both, works with your adjustments or your reticle, one stream line number that only need go to 12.... (for a 308)
Ranging is secondary at best as most have lasers... but for speed and ease, knowing your DOPE in Mils streamlines the process regardless if you hold or dial. On overwatch and see a target peek out, hold the reticle the appropriate adjustment and fire, or that same number can be dialed. No conversation no looking down, or away, just memorize it... it's only 10 numbers and nothing bigger than 12.
Re: Scope Marketing Hub Bub
When did I say anything about ranging?
Im talking about engaging targets at different distances without having to dial. If your data is in MOA and reticle is Mil based then you have to convert all your data to mils based off what distance you are dialed for.
If your reticle and adjustments match, there is no conversion. Fast, accurate, smarter.
Are or were you ever employed in a position that you had to use a precision scoped rifle? I find it hard to believe that you think matching units of measure are "Hub Bub".
That would be like having your data logged in meters and using a ranging formula for yards.
When did I say anything about ranging?
Im talking about engaging targets at different distances without having to dial. If your data is in MOA and reticle is Mil based then you have to convert all your data to mils based off what distance you are dialed for.
If your reticle and adjustments match, there is no conversion. Fast, accurate, smarter.
Are or were you ever employed in a position that you had to use a precision scoped rifle? I find it hard to believe that you think matching units of measure are "Hub Bub".
That would be like having your data logged in meters and using a ranging formula for yards.
Re: Scope Marketing Hub Bub
Ah, you're calling it marketing hub bub to have a scope that is mil / mil as opposed to one that has a mil reticle and moa knobs... so to know your holdovers in mils you have to convert your MOA dope to mils that means two numbers to know. One for dialing and one for holds.
It is possible to have the exact dope in mils based off your moa
Ah, you're calling it marketing hub bub to have a scope that is mil / mil as opposed to one that has a mil reticle and moa knobs... so to know your holdovers in mils you have to convert your MOA dope to mils that means two numbers to know. One for dialing and one for holds.
It is possible to have the exact dope in mils based off your moa
Re: Scope Marketing Hub Bub
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointman308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tell me why you need mil adjustments with your reticles.</div></div>Because your spotter has them.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointman308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...the best invention to modern tactical scopes is using hash marks instead of dots on milradian reticles. Why because they give more precise and expediant follow up shots in case of a first round miss.</div></div>Hash marks don't provide more precise follow-up shots.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointman308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tell me why you need mil adjustments with your reticles.</div></div>Because your spotter has them.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointman308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...the best invention to modern tactical scopes is using hash marks instead of dots on milradian reticles. Why because they give more precise and expediant follow up shots in case of a first round miss.</div></div>Hash marks don't provide more precise follow-up shots.
Re: Scope Marketing Hub Bub
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointman308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Okay, Im willing too see how that would be easier, but that is the only thing I can think of if you have properly trained on your rig. I dont think simplfying something is hub bub, but shouldnt you know your holdovers based off of of a 100 zero in the first place. Maybe not on exteme distance, but in that case why not just dial in. I cant justify bashing a very reputable scope company that sells very dependable scopes because they wouldnt fall for every marketing skeem. Im just playing devils advocated here I realize, but when you have been trained one tried and true way I need to ask the questions. </div></div>
You stated earlier that dialing took to long.
Based of a 100 yard zero is worthless, unless you happen to be shooting at 100. What about when you are engaging a target at 750, out of the blue a target pops up at 400 shooting at you? You got time to dial? Whats your hold based on a 700 yard dial? Its easy when your mil/mil or moa/moa.
Its not a marketing issue, is making equipment to suit the needs of the operators.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointman308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Okay, Im willing too see how that would be easier, but that is the only thing I can think of if you have properly trained on your rig. I dont think simplfying something is hub bub, but shouldnt you know your holdovers based off of of a 100 zero in the first place. Maybe not on exteme distance, but in that case why not just dial in. I cant justify bashing a very reputable scope company that sells very dependable scopes because they wouldnt fall for every marketing skeem. Im just playing devils advocated here I realize, but when you have been trained one tried and true way I need to ask the questions. </div></div>
You stated earlier that dialing took to long.
Based of a 100 yard zero is worthless, unless you happen to be shooting at 100. What about when you are engaging a target at 750, out of the blue a target pops up at 400 shooting at you? You got time to dial? Whats your hold based on a 700 yard dial? Its easy when your mil/mil or moa/moa.
Its not a marketing issue, is making equipment to suit the needs of the operators.
Re: Scope Marketing Hub Bub
Marketing scheme...
The USMC changed their scope for the first time in 40 yr to a scope with mil based adjustments and every single country but the US uses a scope with mil based adjustments. So how is that a marketing scheme when its being done that way all around the world. The current standard moving forward is for mil based scopes as noted by the PSR solicitation.
Mils are universal, they work with yards or meters, Army uses Meters, USMC uses Yards, so you simplify that process. But can continue to work within their circle but with one number.
As Graham stated your spotter is looking through a spotting scope with a Mil Based Reticle so why not call the Dope and Adjustments in Mils, as well there are not two different versions of it, no confusing IPHY vs MOA or as it used to be called TMOA and SMOA... that mess is removed.
Time to wake up, just because it worked back in 1982 doesn't mean it was right, or effective today.
Marketing scheme...
The USMC changed their scope for the first time in 40 yr to a scope with mil based adjustments and every single country but the US uses a scope with mil based adjustments. So how is that a marketing scheme when its being done that way all around the world. The current standard moving forward is for mil based scopes as noted by the PSR solicitation.
Mils are universal, they work with yards or meters, Army uses Meters, USMC uses Yards, so you simplify that process. But can continue to work within their circle but with one number.
As Graham stated your spotter is looking through a spotting scope with a Mil Based Reticle so why not call the Dope and Adjustments in Mils, as well there are not two different versions of it, no confusing IPHY vs MOA or as it used to be called TMOA and SMOA... that mess is removed.
Time to wake up, just because it worked back in 1982 doesn't mean it was right, or effective today.
Re: Scope Marketing Hub Bub
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointman308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">More than a mildot they do.</div></div>
That is a personal opinion, there is no facts or evidence to prove this other than it may "appear" that way for you, and just you.
I happen to like Mil Dots with a 1/2 mil hash mark, the Klein Type but that is me and do not expect people to have that same opinion, I'm not them.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointman308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">More than a mildot they do.</div></div>
That is a personal opinion, there is no facts or evidence to prove this other than it may "appear" that way for you, and just you.
I happen to like Mil Dots with a 1/2 mil hash mark, the Klein Type but that is me and do not expect people to have that same opinion, I'm not them.
Re: Scope Marketing Hub Bub
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointman308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Okay Im following you, but wont you dial with a mil/mil as well.</div></div>
We're wasting our time here...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointman308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Okay Im following you, but wont you dial with a mil/mil as well.</div></div>
We're wasting our time here...
Re: Scope Marketing Hub Bub
Hell no, thats the point.
If your data is in mils, then there is no need to convert.
My data-
750- 5.4
400- 2.0
done... hold under 3.4 and send it while you are still converting or dialing.
Hell no, thats the point.
If your data is in mils, then there is no need to convert.
My data-
750- 5.4
400- 2.0
done... hold under 3.4 and send it while you are still converting or dialing.
Re: Scope Marketing Hub Bub
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointman308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My point with hash marks, is that they dont cover up the target with a big black dot. Im sure you knew that, but it seems to me that would be the fastest option.</div></div>
A Man Sized Target being covered by a .2 Mil wide Mil Dot would put the man some where around 2,500 yards if you figure he has 18" wide shoulders. If you're holding over on a man that the dot covers you;re a better man than I am.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointman308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My point with hash marks, is that they dont cover up the target with a big black dot. Im sure you knew that, but it seems to me that would be the fastest option.</div></div>
A Man Sized Target being covered by a .2 Mil wide Mil Dot would put the man some where around 2,500 yards if you figure he has 18" wide shoulders. If you're holding over on a man that the dot covers you;re a better man than I am.
Re: Scope Marketing Hub Bub
Hey guys Im following what you are saying, and believe I knew I was heading for this, but I wanted to have the discussion. Is the Army going to convert to mil/mil adjustments?
Hey guys Im following what you are saying, and believe I knew I was heading for this, but I wanted to have the discussion. Is the Army going to convert to mil/mil adjustments?
Re: Scope Marketing Hub Bub
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2934094#Post2934094
Many Army units have been switching them out on their own for some time.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2934094#Post2934094
Many Army units have been switching them out on their own for some time.
Re: Scope Marketing Hub Bub
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointman308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Aim small, miss small right?</div></div>
if you say so...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointman308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Aim small, miss small right?</div></div>
if you say so...
Re: Scope Marketing Hub Bub
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointman308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Aim small, miss small right? </div></div>No: Aim correctly and it's not a miss.
And slow isn't smooth; and smooth isn't always fast. That was a movie.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointman308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Aim small, miss small right? </div></div>No: Aim correctly and it's not a miss.
And slow isn't smooth; and smooth isn't always fast. That was a movie.
Re: Scope Marketing Hub Bub
Well I didnt mean to piss off the Grand Pooba of the site here, but at least you kept it somewhat civlized. I'll keep checking this marketing out gentlemen. Until then keep your head down and your powder dry cupcakes.
Well I didnt mean to piss off the Grand Pooba of the site here, but at least you kept it somewhat civlized. I'll keep checking this marketing out gentlemen. Until then keep your head down and your powder dry cupcakes.
Re: Scope Marketing Hub Bub
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointman308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I didnt mean to piss off the Grand Pooba of the site here... keep your head down and your powder dry cupcakes.</div></div>No one's pissed. You said you were a professional. I took you at your word.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointman308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I didnt mean to piss off the Grand Pooba of the site here... keep your head down and your powder dry cupcakes.</div></div>No one's pissed. You said you were a professional. I took you at your word.
Re: Scope Marketing Hub Bub
If your spotter calls miss re-engage two mils left, won't you just hold two mils left. Man I appreciate good technology and advancement, but sometimes I think we get over zealous trying to sell things.
If your spotter calls miss re-engage two mils left, won't you just hold two mils left. Man I appreciate good technology and advancement, but sometimes I think we get over zealous trying to sell things.
Re: Scope Marketing Hub Bub
The fact that you think the idea of Mil/Mil or MOA/MOA is just to sell things, leads me to believe you dont have much real experience in these matters.
If you dont like it, fine dont buy it.
The fact that you think the idea of Mil/Mil or MOA/MOA is just to sell things, leads me to believe you dont have much real experience in these matters.
If you dont like it, fine dont buy it.
Re: Scope Marketing Hub Bub
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointman308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If your spotter calls miss re-engage two mils left, won't you just hold two mils left. Man I appreciate good technology and advancement, but sometimes I think we get over zealous trying to sell things. </div></div>What you are talking about here is only one scenario. Optics are used for much more than that. Some scope 'features' are of marginal utility - like 24x in a $200 scope - but Mil knobs are not and have never been a marketing gimmick. You happen to be wrong on this one.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointman308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If your spotter calls miss re-engage two mils left, won't you just hold two mils left. Man I appreciate good technology and advancement, but sometimes I think we get over zealous trying to sell things. </div></div>What you are talking about here is only one scenario. Optics are used for much more than that. Some scope 'features' are of marginal utility - like 24x in a $200 scope - but Mil knobs are not and have never been a marketing gimmick. You happen to be wrong on this one.
Re: Scope Marketing Hub Bub
I didnt bring that scenario up someone else did. I just simplified the solution to his example he gave.
I didnt bring that scenario up someone else did. I just simplified the solution to his example he gave.
Re: Scope Marketing Hub Bub
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And slow isn't smooth; and smooth isn't always fast.</div></div>
Correct form must precede speed and power, as everyone studying any combative art learns early in their matriculation, if their instructor is competent.
But slow is just...slow.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And slow isn't smooth; and smooth isn't always fast.</div></div>
Correct form must precede speed and power, as everyone studying any combative art learns early in their matriculation, if their instructor is competent.
But slow is just...slow.
Re: Scope Marketing Hub Bub
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointman308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I didnt bring that scenario up someone else did. I just simplified the solution to his example he gave. </div></div>From your first post:<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointman308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tell me why you need mil adjustments with your reticles. If you miss your first shot your not going to take time to dial in corrections are you.</div></div>Now it looks like you are trying to weasel out of the corner you put yourself in. I'm not saying that's what you are doing, I'm saying that's what it looks like you are doing. Either way, you happen to again be wrong.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointman308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I didnt bring that scenario up someone else did. I just simplified the solution to his example he gave. </div></div>From your first post:<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointman308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tell me why you need mil adjustments with your reticles. If you miss your first shot your not going to take time to dial in corrections are you.</div></div>Now it looks like you are trying to weasel out of the corner you put yourself in. I'm not saying that's what you are doing, I'm saying that's what it looks like you are doing. Either way, you happen to again be wrong.
Re: Scope Marketing Hub Bub
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointman308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Only about ten years is all, but hey I dont know everything. Nor would I ever pretend to on my website. </div></div>
Do you have a website?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointman308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Only about ten years is all, but hey I dont know everything. Nor would I ever pretend to on my website. </div></div>
Do you have a website?
Re: Scope Marketing Hub Bub
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointman308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Only about ten years is all, but hey I dont know everything. Nor would I ever pretend to on my website.</div></div>
Please spare us, we're not fooled, you actually only know about a 1/4 of what you think you know.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointman308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Only about ten years is all, but hey I dont know everything. Nor would I ever pretend to on my website.</div></div>
Please spare us, we're not fooled, you actually only know about a 1/4 of what you think you know.
Re: Scope Marketing Hub Bub
get behind the equipment and use it and you'll see the difference. having matching adjustments and reticle is so simple, i don't understand why people still use non matching systems. there is some marketing hub bub going on, but there are also some great and innovative new products that bring some great new feature to the table. i would hate to have such a narrow view i didn't even give some of it a chance to let it speak for itself
get behind the equipment and use it and you'll see the difference. having matching adjustments and reticle is so simple, i don't understand why people still use non matching systems. there is some marketing hub bub going on, but there are also some great and innovative new products that bring some great new feature to the table. i would hate to have such a narrow view i didn't even give some of it a chance to let it speak for itself
Re: Scope Marketing Hub Bub
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointman308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just want to cut through the marketing and narrow down a good quality dependable scope is all. Again sorry for ruffling feathers. Im sure some of you especially lowlight are great shooters,(I've watched you) I just cant stand the confusion when it comes to buying a good dependable product. </div></div>Oh, I see: You are looking to buy a good scope.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointman308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just want to cut through the marketing and narrow down a good quality dependable scope is all. Again sorry for ruffling feathers. Im sure some of you especially lowlight are great shooters,(I've watched you) I just cant stand the confusion when it comes to buying a good dependable product. </div></div>Oh, I see: You are looking to buy a good scope.
Re: Scope Marketing Hub Bub
kind of off topic but the main hubbub i see in marketing is when a company says "sight in at 100 yds and this point is the exact holdover for 250 yds". it drives me nuts how do they know my dope? plus then somone who believes them takes the gun hunting and wonds a animal because they trusted the manufactor.
kind of off topic but the main hubbub i see in marketing is when a company says "sight in at 100 yds and this point is the exact holdover for 250 yds". it drives me nuts how do they know my dope? plus then somone who believes them takes the gun hunting and wonds a animal because they trusted the manufactor.
Re: Scope Marketing Hub Bub
Wow! Everyone, just relax. Pointman is simply referring to real sniper engagements, during which, in his view, the sniper gets one opportunity without follow-up shots, rather than field tactical or sport sniper competitions many of us play in. And he's expressing a principle that refining a marksman's skills is more important than whether a reticle has hash marks or football-shaped beads on it. He's apparently an experienced soldier of sorts. Listen to him.
Pointman, with exceptions, these guys know little about shooting at enemy humans, and more about making money and having fun while looking cool and overcoming excessive adverse emotional baggage. While some are intelligent they are nearly as smart as they think. Don't take them too seriously. The experience of many is shorter than the Hide has been in existence.
Wow! Everyone, just relax. Pointman is simply referring to real sniper engagements, during which, in his view, the sniper gets one opportunity without follow-up shots, rather than field tactical or sport sniper competitions many of us play in. And he's expressing a principle that refining a marksman's skills is more important than whether a reticle has hash marks or football-shaped beads on it. He's apparently an experienced soldier of sorts. Listen to him.
Pointman, with exceptions, these guys know little about shooting at enemy humans, and more about making money and having fun while looking cool and overcoming excessive adverse emotional baggage. While some are intelligent they are nearly as smart as they think. Don't take them too seriously. The experience of many is shorter than the Hide has been in existence.
Re: Scope Marketing Hub Bub
Hear is another brother that uses his head. I am not really that seasoned, I just like to challenge the winds of change and I believe that I have made some valid points as it pertains to scopes. Practice makes perfect not every so called advancement in technology. Mil/mil adjustments do make a little sense to me, but I would not spend another $800.00 dollars for it over a scope that performs flawlessly nor would I invest in something cheaper because is has great features vs. the scope I could depend on with my life.
Hear is another brother that uses his head. I am not really that seasoned, I just like to challenge the winds of change and I believe that I have made some valid points as it pertains to scopes. Practice makes perfect not every so called advancement in technology. Mil/mil adjustments do make a little sense to me, but I would not spend another $800.00 dollars for it over a scope that performs flawlessly nor would I invest in something cheaper because is has great features vs. the scope I could depend on with my life.
Re: Scope Marketing Hub Bub
Casey,
I like you, and you know that.
So, I have to ask:
Knight, Frank, Lindy, 42769 (whom I don't know), Jay, and I have posted in response to the OPs Thread. Would you be willing to name the few exceptions in this crowd to whom you refer: The exceptions to those who know little about shooting at enemy humans, and more about making money and having fun while looking cool and overcoming excessive adverse emotional baggage, and whose experience is shorter than the Hide has been in existence?...
Casey,
I like you, and you know that.
So, I have to ask:
Knight, Frank, Lindy, 42769 (whom I don't know), Jay, and I have posted in response to the OPs Thread. Would you be willing to name the few exceptions in this crowd to whom you refer: The exceptions to those who know little about shooting at enemy humans, and more about making money and having fun while looking cool and overcoming excessive adverse emotional baggage, and whose experience is shorter than the Hide has been in existence?...
Re: Scope Marketing Hub Bub
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 42769vette</div><div class="ubbcode-body">kind of off topic but the main hubbub i see in marketing is when a company says "sight in at 100 yds and this point is the exact holdover for 250 yds". it drives me nuts how do they know my dope? plus then somone who believes them takes the gun hunting and wonds a animal because they trusted the manufactor. </div></div>
this bugs the hell out of me too, i'm not a fan of the ballistic reticles unless i have a specific round picked out, or the reticle is in mils.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 42769vette</div><div class="ubbcode-body">kind of off topic but the main hubbub i see in marketing is when a company says "sight in at 100 yds and this point is the exact holdover for 250 yds". it drives me nuts how do they know my dope? plus then somone who believes them takes the gun hunting and wonds a animal because they trusted the manufactor. </div></div>
this bugs the hell out of me too, i'm not a fan of the ballistic reticles unless i have a specific round picked out, or the reticle is in mils.
Re: Scope Marketing Hub Bub
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointman308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I had a mil/mil scope I would use the reticle for a follow up shot anyway. I wouldnt stop to dial in a correction only until I had to re-engage at a different range in which case you would have to with a mil/mil setup as well as a mil/moa setup. Both ways it is faster to redial with a new target at a different range right. Would'nt you have to do math in your head for both? Im willing to excpet that the math would be a little easier with a 10 mil per revolution dial, but I still think its basically the same. </div></div>
You couldnt be missing the point more, I dont know how to explain it better...
Its faster to switch to a target (threat or not)and not have to dial...Just Hold over/under
When you data is in a different unit of measure then what your reticle is then you cant hold without converting.
If you cant understand why this is an advantage then I dont know what to tell you.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointman308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I had a mil/mil scope I would use the reticle for a follow up shot anyway. I wouldnt stop to dial in a correction only until I had to re-engage at a different range in which case you would have to with a mil/mil setup as well as a mil/moa setup. Both ways it is faster to redial with a new target at a different range right. Would'nt you have to do math in your head for both? Im willing to excpet that the math would be a little easier with a 10 mil per revolution dial, but I still think its basically the same. </div></div>
You couldnt be missing the point more, I dont know how to explain it better...
Its faster to switch to a target (threat or not)and not have to dial...Just Hold over/under
When you data is in a different unit of measure then what your reticle is then you cant hold without converting.
If you cant understand why this is an advantage then I dont know what to tell you.
Re: Scope Marketing Hub Bub
Story time...
YOU are dialed for a 700 yard shot, you shoot and hit target, then you have to shift to a seconday target at 400 yards. So by your method you have to dial, or convert your MOA data to mils so that you can hold under using your Mil reticle.
I am dialed for a 700 yard shot, I shoot and hit the target, then I have to shift to a secondary target at 400 yards. So I can dial OR I can just use my MIL data, because I have a matching MIL reticle and just hold under.
Holding is faster then dialing.
You have to convert to hold.
I do not have to convert to hold.
Story time...
YOU are dialed for a 700 yard shot, you shoot and hit target, then you have to shift to a seconday target at 400 yards. So by your method you have to dial, or convert your MOA data to mils so that you can hold under using your Mil reticle.
I am dialed for a 700 yard shot, I shoot and hit the target, then I have to shift to a secondary target at 400 yards. So I can dial OR I can just use my MIL data, because I have a matching MIL reticle and just hold under.
Holding is faster then dialing.
You have to convert to hold.
I do not have to convert to hold.
Re: Scope Marketing Hub Bub
Never been shot at or shot at anyone.
My experience is most definately less than the existence of the hide.
Excess emotional baggage? Almost certainly. Scratch that. Positively and more than you'd think possible.
Intelligent as I think I am? Almost impossible...almost...
However,
mil/mil = just makes everyting easier. What's wrong with that? Not worth $800 to you? Fine, don't pay it. Want to call it marketing hub bub? Fine, so's power steering on a car, so's GPS in the car compared to reading a map while driving. Is it foolproof? No. Are you foolproof without it? No.
For years people found their way with maps. Then GPS nav's came along. Marketing hub bub or a way to achieve the same result easier and possibly with greater chance of initial success?
Your point about the reticle is seperate from the turrets. There are scopes where you can buy the MIL/MOA set up you like and get to choose the reticle of your choice. It's a great world of choice and you're not obliged to make one if you don't want to.
Never been shot at or shot at anyone.
My experience is most definately less than the existence of the hide.
Excess emotional baggage? Almost certainly. Scratch that. Positively and more than you'd think possible.
Intelligent as I think I am? Almost impossible...almost...
However,
mil/mil = just makes everyting easier. What's wrong with that? Not worth $800 to you? Fine, don't pay it. Want to call it marketing hub bub? Fine, so's power steering on a car, so's GPS in the car compared to reading a map while driving. Is it foolproof? No. Are you foolproof without it? No.
For years people found their way with maps. Then GPS nav's came along. Marketing hub bub or a way to achieve the same result easier and possibly with greater chance of initial success?
Your point about the reticle is seperate from the turrets. There are scopes where you can buy the MIL/MOA set up you like and get to choose the reticle of your choice. It's a great world of choice and you're not obliged to make one if you don't want to.
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