Range Report My 178amax load is kinda slow does that matter

[DrewinTejas]

My current load I have been shooting in my Rem 700 SPS Tac is

178amax
LC Brass
43.8gr Varget
Fed 210M primers
OAL - 2.815

It makes one ragged hole at 100 of less than .5moa but shoots good out to 500. I stepped it out to 1000yds and my dope was 12.4 Mils which means it should be going around 2500fps that day. Is this too slow to shoot out to 1000 with? I can go up to over 44.2gr of varget but my groups opened up. I am already crunching powder at 43.8. It was super tricky with the wind the day we shot at 1k. It was switching right to left blowing 15 and gusting over 20 and the mirage was super thick.

 

[Andy Warhog]

Re: My 178amax load is kinda slow does that matter

I'm not the best at handloading and I'm sure someone can give you better info, but I believe LC brass has thicker walls giving it less case capacity. Maybe try different brass so you can get more powder and see if you have another node up higher. 2500 sounds a little slow

 

[DrewinTejas]

Re: My 178amax load is kinda slow does that matter

Yea I have like 800 LC Brass, I kinda like the thicker cases because in my eyes it would seem like less powder more pressure on this setup.

 

[Andy Warhog]

Re: My 178amax load is kinda slow does that matter

I could be wrong but I don't think thicker case walls will help with that. Longer life, yes, but not velocity. More powder=more to burn=more gas expansion= more velocity.

 

[19Scout77]

Re: My 178amax load is kinda slow does that matter

I would not go any heavier than that with LC brass. How long is your barrel? If 20", that velocity is just fine and right where it should be with that load.

2500 will get you to 1000 with a 178 no problem.

Run it over a chrono.

 

[doubled]

Re: My 178amax load is kinda slow does that matter

same rifle - same bullet. i'm shooting 44.2 grains and getting 2650 fps.

 

[Cologgi]

Re: My 178amax load is kinda slow does that matter

Do yourself a favor and get some Winchester or Lapua brass and rework your loads. Try some 155 scenars. I used to shoot 178 amax and depending on weather could load up to 45 grains (winter time). Scenars will get you to 1000 with only 10 mils. It's not a big deal if you don't shoot that far on a regular basis, but of you shoot 800-1000 yards regularly you will be much happier with a faster load. Save the lake city for screwing around or sell it

 

[Pusher591]

Re: My 178amax load is kinda slow does that matter

OP, what brand barrel and lenght do you run? I have heard that load is a very accurate load, been thinking of running it but I have a short barrel as it is and if yours is long and only getting 2500 then I probably won't be able to use it for long range use out of my gun.

 

[Cologgi]

Re: My 178amax load is kinda slow does that matter

That drops 9.6' between 900 and 1000 yards. Good luck on a 1st round hit at unknown distance

 

[DrewinTejas]

Re: My 178amax load is kinda slow does that matter

I have a new .284 barrel coming to switch over to 7mm-08. I messed around with 155 amax loaded out to 45gr of varget and it shot great to 500 but never tested past that. I am going to load up another 125rd of my current load for a comp in april then after that I will figure something out of switch over to my new barrel and round. My gun is a 20" 1-12 twist factory barrel.

 

[DrewinTejas]

Re: My 178amax load is kinda slow does that matter

Here is some data to match what was happening


Trajectory (Simplified)
Input Data
Manufacturer: Hornady Description: A-Max®
Caliber: 0.308 in Weight: 178.0 gr
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.495 G1
Muzzle Velocity: 2485.0 ft/s
Sight Height: 1.50 in Line Of Sight Angle: 0.0 deg
Cant Angle: 0.0 deg
Wind Speed: 10.0 mph Target Speed: 10.0 mph
Temperature: 68.0 °F Pressure: 29.92 in Hg
Humidity: 50.0 % Altitude: 1100.0 ft
Std. Atmosphere at Altitude: No Pressure is Corrected: Yes
Zero at Max. Point Blank Range: No Target Relative Drops: Yes
Column 1 Units: 1.00 in Column 2 Units: 1.00 mil
Round Output to Whole Numbers: No
Output Data
Elevation: 4.245 MOA Windage: 0.000 MOA
Atmospheric Density: 0.07190 lb/ft³ Speed of Sound: 1126.1 ft/s
Maximum PBR: 306 yd Maximum PBR Zero: 259 yd
Range of Maximum Height: 142 yd Energy at Maximum PBR: 1582.4 ft•lbs
Sectional Density: 0.268 lb/in²
Calculated Table
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (in) (mil) (in) (mil) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (mil)
0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 2485.0 2.207 2440.3 0.000 0.0 ***
50 0.0 0.0 0.2 0.1 2402.0 2.133 2279.9 0.061 10.8 6.0
100 -0.0 -0.0 0.7 0.2 2320.5 2.061 2127.8 0.125 22.0 6.1
150 -1.6 -0.3 1.7 0.3 2240.5 1.990 1983.8 0.191 33.6 6.2
200 -5.0 -0.7 3.1 0.4 2162.1 1.920 1847.3 0.259 45.6 6.3
250 -10.2 -1.1 4.9 0.5 2085.3 1.852 1718.3 0.330 58.0 6.4
300 -17.4 -1.6 7.1 0.7 2010.0 1.785 1596.6 0.403 70.9 6.6
350 -26.7 -2.1 9.9 0.8 1936.5 1.720 1481.9 0.479 84.3 6.7
400 -38.4 -2.7 13.2 0.9 1864.6 1.656 1374.0 0.558 98.2 6.8
450 -52.6 -3.2 17.0 1.0 1794.6 1.594 1272.7 0.640 112.6 7.0
500 -69.5 -3.9 21.4 1.2 1726.5 1.533 1177.9 0.725 127.6 7.1
550 -89.3 -4.5 26.3 1.3 1660.5 1.474 1089.5 0.814 143.2 7.2
600 -112.2 -5.2 31.9 1.5 1596.6 1.418 1007.3 0.906 159.4 7.4
650 -138.6 -5.9 38.2 1.6 1535.0 1.363 931.1 1.002 176.3 7.5
700 -168.6 -6.7 45.1 1.8 1475.9 1.311 860.8 1.101 193.8 7.7
750 -202.6 -7.5 52.7 2.0 1419.5 1.261 796.2 1.205 212.1 7.9
800 -241.0 -8.4 61.0 2.1 1365.9 1.213 737.3 1.313 231.0 8.0
850 -284.0 -9.3 70.1 2.3 1315.4 1.168 683.8 1.425 250.7 8.2
900 -332.0 -10.2 80.0 2.5 1268.1 1.126 635.5 1.541 271.2 8.4
950 -385.5 -11.3 90.5 2.6 1224.4 1.087 592.4 1.661 292.4 8.5
1000 -444.7 -12.4 101.8 2.8 1184.3 1.052 554.3 1.786 314.3 8.7
1050 -510.2 -13.5 113.9 3.0 1148.0 1.019 520.8 1.915 337.0 8.9
1100 -582.2 -14.7 126.6 3.2 1115.5 0.991 491.7 2.047 360.3 9.1

 

[19Scout77]

Re: My 178amax load is kinda slow does that matter

2500 is about right for that load out of a 20" barrel.

 

[PanaDP]

Re: My 178amax load is kinda slow does that matter

I'm using federal brass which, by all accounts, has somewhat greater capacity than most. I'm also shooting the same bullet from the same rifle and mine like 45.2gr of varget. It's over a max load and shoots beautifully.

 

[Tx_Flyboy]

Re: My 178amax load is kinda slow does that matter

Drew,

You indicated that your group opens up with 44.2gr of Varget but did you encounter pressure signs?

If you did not encounter pressure signs, then you should continue working up in 0.2gr increments or so until you encounter pressure signs.

The book max for 175s/178s is 45gr of Varget, however, every rifle is different...you may encounter pressure signs earlier or later, the only way to know is to workup slowly.

I bet you'll find an accuracy node close to book max...2500fps from a 20" barrel is slow. I would expect varget to give you low to mid 2600fps...

Don't worry too much about crunching, the only thing that matters is whether or not you are encountering pressure signs in your rifle.

 

[Mike_in_FL]

Re: My 178amax load is kinda slow does that matter

Just out of curiosity do you have one of the Hornady comparator tools to measure the distance to the throat? Because if your factory chamber is like mine, you could probably seat out another .100. This is why I'm going to move to an Alpha type 2 mag using these bullets.

I think you're jumping a lot and if you're looking for more velocity you might want to try a 175 SMK.

 

[jamesZ71]

Re: My 178amax load is kinda slow does that matter

I'll offer up my load to compare to if it might help

running a savage 10 20in 308 with a 1-10 twist
Fed brass
CCI primer
178gr amax
with 44gr of varget
AOL-2.814
Average of 2621.6 FPS for 10 shots fired 2607fps-2641fps

I use an old Horandy powder measure so the loads might vary 44.gr to 44.2gr

A litte something to compare too,been running this load for months and have yet to see any pressure signs

 

[Grump]

Re: My 178amax load is kinda slow does that matter

All this talk and not a single mention of whether the scope is really coming up that many mils with that many clicks.

Fundamentals! Especially when there is no chronograph at play. If your scope's mils are "short", then all other calculations are off.

My LC AND Lapua brass AND Federal newer brass all has almost exactly the same fired case water capacity. 41.5 Varget with that bullet is the start of crunch territory.

I'd hesitate before trying to increase the load. IMO, velocity is the best "pressure sign".

 

[DrewinTejas]

Re: My 178amax load is kinda slow does that matter

I did not have any pressure signs on 44.2. I have 100 rds of brass prepped and primed ready to load up some. I have shot 175smk in the past but never to 1k with a similar load. I loaded the 175smk to 44gr Varget. I will do a head count on bullets and see what I can load up. I just need to have 125rds ready for a match in april.

 

[DrewinTejas]

Re: My 178amax load is kinda slow does that matter

Mike,

I do not have that tool, but Im running seekins mags and can load out past 2.9

Grump

Very true, I need a chrono and possibly do a latter test to see if the scope is tracking that high. I am using a Vortex PST 4-16.

 

[Grump]

Re: My 178amax load is kinda slow does that matter

FYI, My fired case water capacities, all averages of at least 10 cases trimmed to 2.10 (middle of the range):

Newer FC cases 55.94 gr
FA 63 Match cases 56.0
LC 86M (M852 cases) 56.0
Yes, I measured them twice and got the same values for both military lots, made 23 years apart in two different plants.

Lapua, bought in 2009 or so, 56.48

In one round of A/B testing, velocities with Lapua brass and FC brass were within 0.63 fps of each other. The ES of the FC was 40 FPS, while it was 17 with the Lapua. That was lower than usual-more commonly Lapua runs about 25 fps ES out of my rifle.

Run the QuickLOAD numbers and you'll see not a lot of predicted velocity differences when water capacities are within about 2.0 grains, IIRC.

So, unless your cases measure different from mine, I doubt that switching to Lapua brass would change anything pressure/velocity wise.

Remember there is no full substitute for measuring your own stuff and your own results.

 

[McLarenross]

Re: My 178amax load is kinda slow does that matter

Have you considered something besides Varget? Im running 178s in Winchester Brass with 46.3gr of RL-15 and Wolf LRM primers at an OAL of 2.940" which is about 0.010" off the lands in my 20" Remington. I chronyd them at 2770 but my software shows me an adjusted velocity of 2740. It takes me 9.9Mils to get to 1000 at 2000' DA. The reason I dont get pressure issues is cause of the long loaded length. I tried the 155s as well and couldnt get enough velocity cause I couldnt push the bullet out far enough to keep the pressure down.