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Gunsmithing My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

this may sound odd but i am willing to bet if you were to
cast your chamber it would be way out of spec maybe it is just
the picture or i am seing them incorectly but the shape of the
shoulder and the curves look wrong to me
 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

Well, it's here, in the lathe and a few minor corrections have been made. I took a lot of measurements prior to doing anything, could've been a better job no doubt. I just emailed Jose a detailed report with photos. I told him it's OK with me to post my email and photos if he likes. I havent heard back from him yet. I'll give Jose a chance to digest the info before I post photos and give out too much detail but, the gunsmithing job wasn’t as good as it could've/should've been
mad.gif


Choose your smith very carefully!!!
 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

I just received an email from Jose. Here's a copy of my original email detailing what I found;

OK Jose,

I’ve attached several pictures for you. Feel free to post them if you like. You may also post my findings. Some of the pictures are before and after, you should be able to see the difference. The following are my findings;

1- The receiver face, threads and lug abutments have not been trued. I can still see the factory saw cuts on the receiver face. You may be able to see the saw cuts in the pictures.

2- The lug abutments in the receiver are not true to the receiver face. The difference between the two lugs are .0015” when measuring from the receiver face.

3- The bolt face, bolt lugs and bolt nose have not been trued. I can still see the factory finish on the bolt face (small pit like finish).

4- One bolt lug is making contact slightly more than the other.

5- The bolt nose and face of the bolt lugs were rubbing the rear of the barrel tennon and inside the bolt nose recess. This is bad for accuracy and I cleaned this up while the barrel was in the lathe. It’s just clearance but it needs to be there. You can see this in some of the pictures.

6- When measuring the depth from the receiver face to the face of the bolt lugs the top lug measured .704”, the bottom lug measured .694” This is just clearance but needs to be trued while in the lathe.

7- The chamber appears to be fine, no run out. I removed the burr and polished the chamber giving it a 320 grit finish. Should be OK

8- I polished the rear of the tennon and threads, you can see this in the pictures.

9- Headspace was checked and it’s +.002” over a go gauge.


The thing that would really bother me above all is this. The receiver and bolt were never trued, you just received a barrel change and a new lug. Now, if you didn’t pay for receiver truing no big deal but, if you did, you got jacked. Why build a rifle and not true the receiver. Photos of the crown aren’t in this email because I haven’t re-crowned it yet, I will though. 7mmRM is supposed to send me a spec sheet to scale for the ejection cut out. Since a cutout is already there and high all I can do is just clean it up a bit and try to make it look uniform.



The crown, ejection cutout and finish is all that’s left to do. If you would like me to paint the rifle in flat black KG Gun Kote let me know what you want to do so I can get this rifle back to you, it’s almost finished.



I can take more photos if you like but, I think I’ve got it covered pretty good


 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bcw1284</div><div class="ubbcode-body">pics or it didn't happen! lol </div></div>

My camera battery's dead, pics will follow shortly.

 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

Here's the pics I sent Jose with my earlier email.

This shows the bolt lug that was making the best contact. The other lug was barley marking
wqzlts.jpg


This shows that the bolt face was not trued and how the lug faces were rubbing on the rear of the tennon
263zpdz.jpg


It's hard to see but there are saw marks in the receiver face from the factory
2d98tw3.jpg


another view of the receiver face
2uhws9t.jpg


This is a view of the bolt nose recess after correcting the clearence issue between the bolt nose/lugs and recess
35cpxl3.jpg


another tennon view and the polished threads and chamber
2ds2r6a.jpg


The recess and rear tennon prior to any cuts being made. You can make out where the bolt was rubbing on the tennon rear
ion86r.jpg


Rear of the tennon view
xen2wy.jpg


Another view of the tennon prior to any cuts beinig made and Rubb marks from the bolt nose
1247ewi.jpg


The New Crown
kail5i.jpg
 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

Dammit, I forgot to forward that to you. TOMORROW... PM me if I dont have it to you by noon.
 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7mmRM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dammit, I forgot to forward that to you. TOMORROW... PM me if I dont have it to you by noon. </div></div>

I would have called and ragged on you a little but, I did'nt have your #
 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

Very nice. And to think the action wasn't trued/blueprinted! I'm amazed the rifle shot as well as it did. Looking forward to seeing the finished product.
 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

Thats unbelieveable that someone would let that out the door. Glad to see you got it squared away.
 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 81sfo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I recommend you send the bedding job to GAP request a fellow named Ern Stokesberry to do it , he bedds rifles better than anyone ive seen.He does some of the FN SPR A3G rifles. </div></div>

Jose,

Thanks for the kind words. I wish I had the opportunity to work on another one of your rifles.

I will be professional and not bash another gunsmith or their work, I just hope your rifle turns out to be everything you want it to be.

BTW - If the stock was originally inletted for the badger M5 then I would keep it as such. It will still be to m40a3 spec, at least the S&B era. You can send the stock to GAP, McMillan, or others to re-cut the inlet and cut out whatever work that was previously done. If you want to run the DD ROSS setup it will look like shit because you are going to have a lot of marine-tex making up the difference between the inlet and bottom metal. Just a thought.

Good Luck,

Ern
 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

Thanks for posting the pics William, i had to run out and do some x-mas shopping. Awesome work there, im motivated now about this rifle being done,AGAIN! The day after i received it ,at the range GoB and i had a couple guys come to us and asks us about it and how theyve never seen an M40a3 up close.When they left they felt sorry for me, they say the horrible bedding sticking out like a sore thumb.I can wait to get it going again, ive got the stock all ready to go with some marine tex and pillars.The m5 badger is again re fitted and the inlet was reworked to make it fit. After a long session of tips and advise from William on bedding , im super motivated ,hard charging to take this on.
The first signs were The lugs, they were the first thing i noticed and i saw the HALF ASSING had been discovered .The more i dug in the more corners i saw were cut.Thanks to all the positive comments and initiative William has given, my rifle will be soon at the range where it belongs.thanks man. Theres more to follow.
 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

Hello Ern, i knew id get your attention!Yes the best bedding ive evr seen in my short shooting life has been yours.The FN SPR a3G i previously had was amazing!I thought it was done by a robot or something,it was perfect as can be by human hands.Im not trying ot brown nose here, but the damn thing was superb!I know i took pics but i cant find them, or else id post some here to show.Maybe one day ill send a stock to GAP and request your expertise.
The m40a3 stock was made for the m5,thats why i sent the m5 with it for the build. I never wanted a "rigged " RIG!Its now ready for the intened Badger set up.
 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

81sfo,

If your rifle shoots half as well as the one William built for me, you will not be disappointed. You definitely picked the right guy to send it to.

bsp212
 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

Im sure my rifle will shoot better now with the touch up William working on it.
 
Last edited:
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

Nice work.. I will be keeping this in mind when it comes time to blueprint my 5R.
 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

Finally received some specs on the clip slots. I just cleaned up the existing cuts on Jose's receiver. It's off to paint and then back home to Houston, TX. Should be complete on Monday.

24ne8gk.jpg


2hrhe03.jpg
 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

I dont know if its me or ...but from the last (2nd) pic, the cut on the left is not straight.
 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GoB</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I dont know if its me or ...but from the last (2nd) pic, the cut on the left is not straight. </div></div>

i have a feeling it is an optical illusion since it's not sitting square to the counter edge.

great job wnroscoe!
 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

Gob,

It's a round receiver, optical illusion. I indicated the part in before I made any cuts. I used a V block in a machinist vice to hold the receiver and indicated by the under side of the feed rails/receiver. Thats the only flat I could find on a round receiver. If those flats were/are off, my cut would just follow.
 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

A few more angles, it's as straight as I could make it
wink.gif


34s01hl.jpg


A little closer view
34h8gw7.jpg


Shot through the front receiver ring.
2ywsjdy.jpg


a0xc39.jpg
 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

Its beautiful.

I didnt look at the spec that 7mmRM sent yet. But do we have to mil off top of the rear bridge?

And Will, Jose told me about the cut that wasnt straight from DDRoss, Im just curious.
 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

GoB,

Yes the rear bridge has to be milled off for the M40A3. The print I have is basically the M40A1 print.
 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

As I remember, DDRoss didnt milled off the rear bridge...Or he did but not too much. Correct me if Im wrong Will!
 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

The clip slot on top of the receiver is 2.900" from the rear of the front receiver ring to the rear of the clip slot cutoout. It's .573" wide.

35j03ep.jpg
 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

Thanks Wil, me and Jose is currently working on the clip slot on my SPS-Tac. We're trying to hit the square corner.
 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GoB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks Wil, me and Jose is currently working on the clip slot on my SPS-Tac. We're trying to hit the square corner. </div></div>

There’s going to be a small radius in the corners, how small depends on the size of the end mill.
 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

Great job on the arc mill Will,if you keep doing these m40a3 actions you wont have time to eat.Youll have a long stack of actions waiting at your door step every morning.I think the guys were talking about the slot on top that its not cut parallel ,but you didnt do thate slot it was the "SMITH" how did it.I say dont worry about it the base fits good as is, if we open it up more maybe it will be loose.Also the top of the reciever wasnt milled flat as per Specs, but again more corners were cut by this freaking guy!The work youve has been clean and professional Will, i thank you.
 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

This brings a question to my mind... If the 30 moa base is suppose to be installed on a milled flat receiver. That receiver has to be milled to a certain height on the backside to get the correct 30 moa. If it's only milled a little bit... the base is going to sit at an angle higher than 30 moa... Correct ? This picture is from the A3 build guide thread from a while back... and it is milled totally flat...lower than yours...
1001984gl5.jpg

JMO... But I would have the right side scallop cut lower like in these two pics of actual M40A3's... now would be the time to do it..
080127-M-7747B-002.jpg

2298888260085029376hbfwzd0.jpg
 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

Mcm,as long as the rear reciever is flat and the base sits flat youre good.youll need to seek this feature later i presume.exact 30 moa wont be a factor a little plus or minus ,thats why youll zero your scope when you put the rifle together.my opinion.
 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 81sfo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mcm,as long as the rear reciever is flat and the base sits flat youre good.youll need to seek this feature later i presume.exact 30 moa wont be a factor a little plus or minus ,thats why youll zero your scope when you put the rifle together.my opinion. </div></div>

That's wrong... Your dealing with two different heights on the receiver to work with a given spec 30 moa base that is designed to mount onto the milled height.. If those two heights are not what they are suppose to be... the base is going to be off the 30 moa.... Now who knows what the base angle is... it could be 40 moa but your scope will still work... And if that's the case... the front of the base will not sit totally flush on the receiver...
 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

Its not the whole rear bridge that milled off, the milled off area just slightly bigger than the flat rear bottom of the base. From the way the picture taken the light make things look bigger.
 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GoB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Its not the whole rear bridge that milled off, the milled off area just slightly bigger than the flat rear bottom of the base. From the way the picture taken the light make things look bigger. </div></div>

Thats what I'm saying... if you look at the picture of the clip slot I believe done by GAP I posted, The whole bridge is milled flat unlike Jose's where it is just a strip down the middle that is flat...
 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

No it probably wont just like the rear wont be sitting flat without the rear being milled. I believe that with the 8-40 screws bolted down tight and occasional shooting sessions all this wont affect zero much.if youre going to jump out of Helos and crawl thru the jungles with the rifle you might want to secure it and go the whole distance and achieving the milled rear reciever.Not that i want to settle for the minumim but the rifle has come miles away from how i recieved it.I think that for me its good enough,its been freaking butchered everyway you look at it.Will has cleaned it up very much from the origianl state it came to me in.lets not forget the broken stock.Its the most rigged piece of gear ive had ever and yet the most costly.Damn.
 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

Yes, it probably will work fine for your intentions... I just thought I would mention my observations... In case you wanted it to be "correct".
smile.gif
 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mcm308</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GoB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Its not the whole rear bridge that milled off, the milled off area just slightly bigger than the flat rear bottom of the base. From the way the picture taken the light make things look bigger. </div></div>

Thats what I'm saying... if you look at the picture of the clip slot I believe done by GAP I posted, The whole bridge is milled flat unlike Jose's where it is just a strip down the middle that is flat... </div></div>

You are correct, the pic taken by Newb 308 on his rifle built by GAP, clip slotted by GAP.

Zero is not a problem, it could be off a few MOA, the scope can pick it up within its range.

Problem is the base, will it hold or not. I look back at the last pic I took on Jose's rifle, there's a small gap between the base and the rear bridge. That's the reason why I said in a couple previous post that DDRoss did not mil off the rear bridge. The area of intact is too small, one is radius and one is flat, the screws will hold the base on the receiver but they withstand a lot more torsion from recoil which they dont suppose to and easily break off after time.

12062008224.jpg
 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GoB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Its not the whole rear bridge that milled off, the milled off area just slightly bigger than the flat rear bottom of the base. From the way the picture taken the light make things look bigger. </div></div>

If the bridge is not milled off the correct amount, wouldn't that prevent the front of the base from making full contact with the receiver?
 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

Or put it in a bind when the screws are tight?
 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RADcustom</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GoB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Its not the whole rear bridge that milled off, the milled off area just slightly bigger than the flat rear bottom of the base. From the way the picture taken the light make things look bigger. </div></div>

If the bridge is not milled off the correct amount, wouldn't that prevent the front of the base from making full contact with the receiver? </div></div>

Thats what I said in my earlier post...the front won't sit flush...
 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

The rear lug will absorb the recoil and take some of the shear load off the screws but still...
 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

No it wont fully sit right as it should, the base will probably contact where the 8-40 screws tighten,but the sides will have a small gap.
Mcm, i know what your saying as for your observations,my initial intentions for this rifle were to be a Spec rifle.That was the reason why i had Dan Ross built it, he asured me he knew the specs and i would receive nothing less.The end result has been seen.
Theres nothing more i want than to have a Spec rifle but this wont be it, it has been butchered the fuck up by the man i put my trust and money in,the Spec rifle will have to be another one at a later day.This is just a salvaged rifle that Will and i are trying to rescue.
 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

Will's actions/work on this has earned him my M40A1 turn-in build! The man has character & skills! Can't wait to get started, will be calling him on Sunday to work out the details.... Best of luck with the salvage work 81sfo!
 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RADcustom</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GoB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Its not the whole rear bridge that milled off, the milled off area just slightly bigger than the flat rear bottom of the base. From the way the picture taken the light make things look bigger. </div></div>

If the bridge is not milled off the correct amount, wouldn't that prevent the front of the base from making full contact with the receiver? </div></div>

Then there will be a small area in front of the front lug sit up high and not in contact with the receiver, the over tighten 8-40 will make it sit but dont it put a lot more stress on the base?

The base should sit freely on the receiver with full intact, all the base are designed the same way.
 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

Its not a perfect world. I have quite a few rifles/rails. Very few have ever had a "perfect" fit. Torque down the front or rear and most of time you can see a gap. Nothing devcon or marine tex wont fix.
 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

the areas marked in red won't be making contact and yes...part of the front lug won't make contact either...
ddrbaseedit.jpg
 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

That's why you have to mil it off so it fit.
 
Re: My rifle back from the "Smith"??PIC HEAVY!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 81sfo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No it wont fully sit right as it should, the base will probably contact where the 8-40 screws tighten,but the sides will have a small gap.
Mcm, i know what your saying as for your observations,my initial intentions for this rifle were to be a Spec rifle.That was the reason why i had Dan Ross built it, he asured me he knew the specs and i would receive nothing less.The end result has been seen.
Theres nothing more i want than to have a Spec rifle but this wont be it, it has been butchered the fuck up by the man i put my trust and money in,the Spec rifle will have to be another one at a later day.This is just a salvaged rifle that Will and i are trying to rescue. </div></div>

Why not get Roscoe to correct this issue as well before he puts the finish on the rifle?