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My turn for an annoying "which action" thread

Which action?

  • Total voters
    172
Personally I've come to prefer the 105/5 that my Mausingfield has.

You don't win matches by running the bolt fast. You want to run the bolt smooth and deliberately, not as fast as you can. I shoot much better when I shoot smooth and deliberately. Look at top shooters such as Matt B. Or Dave Preston - they run the bolt smoothly, they are not rushing that bolt closed.

The 105/5 (aka cock on open), allows the sight picture to be undisturbed when closing the bolt. As you are opening your bolt, your sight picture has already been disturbed from recoil. Then, as you are smoothly and deliberately closing the bolt, you are getting your rifle back on target and settled in and if done right you are ready to send one once the bolt is closed.

I don't buy into the speed argument, and why I think 60° actions are more of a gimmick than anything.
 
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I'm kind of looking at the same actions. You've covered the pros and cons better than I could in the OP. I was really set on the Origin, but would kind of like to use AW mags, and realized the other day that the Origin is only AICS compatible. I believe the Nucleus is compatible with either, but I'm not certain.

As an aside, I actually thought that the Bighorns had a reputation as pretty smooth actions, especially the Origin. In this thread it seems like lots of folks have them bind, that would be a no go for me, I can't stand a binding action.
 
Gtscotty said:
As an aside, I actually thought that the Bighorns had a reputation as pretty smooth actions, especially the Origin. In this thread it seems like lots of folks have them bind, that would be a no go for me, I can't stand a binding action.
Click to expand...

Huh? We said they do not bind when shooting behind the gun.
 
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Gtscotty said:
I'm kind of looking at the same actions. You've covered the pros and cons better than I could in the OP. I was really set on the Origin, but would kind of like to use AW mags, and realized the other day that the Origin is only AICS compatible. I believe the Nucleus is compatible with either, but I'm not certain.

As an aside, I actually thought that the Bighorns had a reputation as pretty smooth actions, especially the Origin. In this thread it seems like lots of folks have them bind, that would be a no go for me, I can't stand a binding action.
Click to expand...
No, the Nucleus is not AW mag compatibility, unfortunately. That’s the only drawback for me since I like my AW mags. I believe that when this question was originally asked if Ted, he felt that removing the extra material to make it AW compatible would compromise the integrity of his robust design.
 
Gtscotty said:
I was really set on the Origin, but would kind of like to use AW mags, and realized the other day that the Origin is only AICS compatible. I believe the Nucleus is compatible with either, but I'm not certain.
Click to expand...

Any particular reason for your preference for AW mags?
 
lash said:
No, the Nucleus is not AW mag compatibility, unfortunately. That’s the only drawback for me since I like my AW mags. I believe that when this question was originally asked if Ted, he felt that removing the extra material to make it AW compatible would compromise the integrity of his robust design.
Click to expand...

Bummer, I really prefer my CTR mags to my AICS, and was kind of thinking AW would be the way to go for a more compact, easier to load double stack configuration on a future build. I've heard that the Seekins Havak works with AW and the Havak Bravo is pretty similar to what I want to put together in the end anyway.
 
About the jealousy part I was just kidding of course, lol, Cmon man, that'd be a bit petty.

My only experience with a cock on close action is the old Swedish Mauser's. They aren't bad but I bet that COC in the SS6 would be awesome and worlds apart in feel. Bordon has the bolt timing thing down really well too if you went COO. I was kidding about beating your friend in that way too, Yuh know, just trying to be tongue in cheek.

I don't know KT, I can without a doubt say that I've won NRL22 matches solely by pointing to how fast my Fortner 1827F cycles, because I finished stages in a relaxed fashion making hits, whereas most of the bolt rifle guys rushed and missed, and still didn't finish the stage. A few seconds could matter on certain stages and when there's two days worth of stages those few extra hits here and there do add up. Bolt action to bolt action the comparison wouldn't be as polarizing but... As we all know the more consistent shooter will win.

Speaking of this, hey this would be a cool stage, man against man with bolt rifles on identical target displays with two pepper poppers crossing over each other, first to get their popper down wins!

With my Mausingfield the bolt opening was tough enough that when shooting some TYL's I had to remember to lock my bipods cant down hard to avoid upsetting the sight picture upon opening the bolt. Of course if there's movement like transitioning to another position we open the bolt and leave it open till the next shot, so mute in that case. I've since reduced the firing pin spring power and polished the cocking surfaces but the lift is still harder than it should be and way harder than an Impact is to open. I swear my Surgeon XL has 3/4 the bolt lift feel of my Mausingfield and I've had single shot custom RFD actions that were even better in bolt lift feel. I guess all I'm saying is if I had to choose a bolt action by the way the bolt lift felt it wouldn't be a Mausingfield. To each his own.

The Nucleus I felt last year at the SHOT SHOW needed less vigor to open the bolt which I would blame on the dual cocking surfaces. Good on Ted for that.
 
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steve123 said:
About the jealousy part I was just kidding of course, lol, Cmon man, that'd be a bit petty.

My only experience with a cock on close action is the old Swedish Mauser's. They aren't bad but I bet that COC in the SS6 would be awesome and worlds apart in feel. Bordon has the bolt timing thing down really well too if you went COO. I was kidding about beating your friend in that way too, Yuh know, just trying to be tongue in cheek.

I don't know KT, I can without a doubt say that I've won NRL22 matches solely by pointing to how fast my Fortner 1827F cycles, because I finished stages in a relaxed fashion making hits, whereas most of the bolt rifle guys rushed and missed, and still didn't finish the stage. A few seconds could matter on certain stages and when there's two days worth of stages those few extra hits here and there do add up. Bolt action to bolt action the comparison wouldn't be as polarizing but... As we all know the more consistent shooter will win.

Speaking of this, hey this would be a cool stage, man against man with bolt rifles on identical target displays with two pepper poppers crossing over each other, first to get their popper down wins!

With my Mausingfield the bolt opening was tough enough that when shooting some TYL's I had to remember to lock my bipods cant down hard to avoid upsetting the sight picture upon opening the bolt. Of course if there's movement like transitioning to another position we open the bolt and leave it open till the next shot, so mute in that case. I've since reduced the firing pin spring power and polished the cocking surfaces but the lift is still harder than it should be and way harder than an Impact is to open. I swear my Surgeon XL has 3/4 the bolt lift feel of my Mausingfield and I've had single shot custom RFD actions that were even better in bolt lift feel. I guess all I'm saying is if I had to choose a bolt action by the way the bolt lift felt it wouldn't be a Mausingfield. To each his own.

The Nucleus I felt last year at the SHOT SHOW needed less vigor to open the bolt which I would blame on the dual cocking surfaces. Good on Ted for that.
Click to expand...

What trigger are you running?

My friend with a Mausingfield and Huber trigger is easily 3x the bolt lift effort as mine is with a BnA Tacsport 2 stage trigger.

May be a trigger timing issue. My bolt lift on my Mausingfield is almost effortless. Certainly no more effort than my IonBonded Defiance.

That's my hypothesis anyways. That, or I got really lucky with my Mausingfield. I know a lot of people complain about how they feel, but mine is one of the best actions I've ever felt, and I've had my hands on a lot of actions.
 
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steve123 said:
...

Speaking of this, hey this would be a cool stage, man against man with bolt rifles on identical target displays with two pepper poppers crossing over each other, first to get their popper down wins!
...
Click to expand...
Off topic so my apology to Spife, but we have recently been including some head-to-head stages in some our matches and I think that everyone has a blast. I enjoy those more than most all others. When you are pitted directly against someone, shooting the same things at the same time, with the winner being the one who cleans the stage first, the Adrenalin really flows. To make it even more interesting, there is a specific max rounds you’re allowed too, so spray and pray is out of the question. I.E. six targets, eight rounds in mag.

Okay, detour off.
 
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kthomas said:
What trigger are you running?

My friend with a Mausingfield and Huber trigger is easily 3x the bolt lift effort as mine is with a BnA Tacsport 2 stage trigger.

May be a trigger timing issue. My bolt lift on my Mausingfield is almost effortless. Certainly no more effort than my IonBonded Defiance.

That's my hypothesis anyways. That, or I got really lucky with my Mausingfield. I know a lot of people complain about how they feel, but mine is one of the best actions I've ever felt, and I've had my hands on a lot of actions.
Click to expand...



I had forgot to mention that, the Timney CE single stage was on there before the mods and that definitely was part of the problem.

I did the mods, then got a TT diamond pro, all helped, and I think the trigger was half of the reason the bolt lift was nicer.

Also mine is a earlier model and is unfinished.

I really do have to lift the bolt fast to avoid the spongyness near the top of the stroke.

After mods and trigger my Surgeon feels much better in the bolt lift department than my Mausingfield.

I have a local friend that ordered his Mausingfield shortly after I got mine, his was slightly better feeling in bolt lift with a jewel trigger but mine feels better than his now. So I do think there is unit to unit variance happening.
Wanna trade rifles??, I'll throw in my 9 year rez dog, a bag of dog food, and some open bolt indicators, lol.
 
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lash said:
Off topic so my apology to Spife, but we have recently been including some head-to-head stages in some our matches and I think that everyone has a blast. I enjoy those more than most all others. When you are pitted directly against someone, shooting the same things at the same time, with the winner being the one who cleans the stage first, the Adrenalin really flows. To make it even more interesting, there is a specific max rounds you’re allowed too, so spray and pray is out of the question. I.E. six targets, eight rounds in mag.

Okay, detour off.
Click to expand...

Good for you, Lash.

!!!American Handgunner World Shootoff style, except with long range rifles. Nerve racking but a ton of fun!
 
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lash said:
Off topic so my apology to Spife, but we have recently been including some head-to-head stages in some our matches and I think that everyone has a blast. I enjoy those more than most all others. When you are pitted directly against someone, shooting the same things at the same time, with the winner being the one who cleans the stage first, the Adrenalin really flows. To make it even more interesting, there is a specific max rounds you’re allowed too, so spray and pray is out of the question. I.E. six targets, eight rounds in mag.
Click to expand...

We had a full match like that, double elimnation bracket head to head shooting. Simple stage layout with identical barricades and two pairs of targets at 600 yards, a big and a small. You shot prone small target, then low barricade big/small, then high barricade big/small, then prone small target on the opposite side of the barricade, then back through the barricade again the other direction. 90 second time limit, most hits was the winner with time to final hit being the tiebreak. What was even more fun was that heckling from the crowd was mandatory. :)
 
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Gtscotty said:
Bummer, I really prefer my CTR mags to my AICS, and was kind of thinking AW would be the way to go for a more compact, easier to load double stack configuration on a future build. I've heard that the Seekins Havak works with AW and the Havak Bravo is pretty similar to what I want to put together in the end anyway.
Click to expand...


I have the Havak Pro HP1 in 6.5CM and have been happy with it. I lightened the trigger a touch and topped it with a Burris XTR2 3-15x50 SCR mrad in Seekin's rings and it's shot really well with factory 140gr ELD-M and my reloads with the same pills. It's in the Magpul stock and I think it's ok. I'll be changing to a Foundation Exodus once JK gets back to me on fitment details. The Havak action's design and engineering make sense and for me has been great. At first I thought it was a little dodgy but 100 rounds later and I love it. The Havak Bravo really interests me because it's cerakoted black, the KRG Bravo seems to be pretty popular, and I really wanted a 6CM instead of 6.5CM but it wasn't offered in the HP1. There's a bunch of info in this thread but the comment about the Havak is specifically what I'm replying to, I don't really have ANY other experience outside of that.
 
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lash said:
Off topic so my apology to Spife, but we have recently been including some head-to-head stages in some our matches and I think that everyone has a blast. I enjoy those more than most all others. When you are pitted directly against someone, shooting the same things at the same time, with the winner being the one who cleans the stage first, the Adrenalin really flows. To make it even more interesting, there is a specific max rounds you’re allowed too, so spray and pray is out of the question. I.E. six targets, eight rounds in mag.

Okay, detour off.
Click to expand...
No apologies necessary!

My cousins and I have actually been building up something similar in the pasture but we only have the close up side by side really figured and laid out. It will start with pistols at 20-35 yards, our ar15s from 50-150 and then the long range from 400-800.

We also put together a KYL at 500 thats a 66% ipsc and then 12, 10, 8, 6" circles and seeing the least amount of shots to clean it combined with the time spent to do so. I want to add in a 4" circle still.

So thats what most of my "competing" will be.
 
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lash said:
...we have recently been including some head-to-head stages in some our matches and I think that everyone has a blast.
Click to expand...

We do this locally too but it's the last stage after the points are added up. This way you're shooting against someone "in your class" with approx the same number of points. It's a sort of tie-breaker and you're not shooting against the point leader or the FNG bringing up the rear. It is one of the more fun stages IMO. Ten rounds max from 3 different positions at one 300m target rack, with a 10m jog to staged rifles from behind the firing line; two impacts per target to advance to the next position, first to collect their 6 points wins the shoot-off. [/HIJACK]
 
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mcfred said:
We do this locally too but it's the last stage after the points are added up. This way you're shooting against someone "in your class" with approx the same number of points. It's a sort of tie-breaker and you're not shooting against the point leader or the FNG bringing up the rear. It is one of the more fun stages IMO. Ten rounds max from 3 different positions at one 300m target rack, with a 10m jog to staged rifles from behind the firing line; two impacts per target to advance to the next position, first to collect their 6 points wins the shoot-off. [/HIJACK]
Click to expand...
Ours is also done at the end in a similar manner.
 
I got an origin, Ive been taking a little time putting things together due to providing for a family and all. But my idea is very similar to yours, although im still eye balling the MDT oryx but will probably go with the Bravo.

Anyway, if you look at the TL3 barrel swap thread

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/bighorn-tl3-barrel-swap-question.6815501/

Yup, thats basically what sold me. Watching the Origin thread here has shown me that they work hard for their customers. I think the CRF will take some time for me but over all it seems to be built well and has all the features i was looking for. Shouldered button barrels can be had for $419 from keystone if I understand properly. Im not sure if these custom actions still go through some polishong of sears but i do know that my bergara is way silkier. And the bolt know i chose is very agressive but if you work with your hands much you shoulf be fine but worth considering if you want the helical diamond patern.

I tend to dry fire a lot so ill get a better idea of this action soon enough.
 
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For what you have listed, I would go with the kelbys. They make a great action. Their fire control is one of, if not the best in the market. Talk to Keith Baker or Craig Thomas, two of the top PRS shooters. They are both shooting that action. They have no issues winning with them.
 
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They are not in your list but I would really suggest saving a little more and looking at a lone peak fusion or impact. They both run extremely well in super dusty and dirty conditions. A few on your list I can not say the same for.
 
I don't think their is a wrong answer. But I was debating the APR G2 vs. the origin a few weeks ago. End up ordering a G2. APR said they should start shipping at the end of the month. The deciding factor for me was the $750 introductory price for the G2 and the straight bolt handle. I liked it better than the swept handle on the origin.
 
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I have two TL3’s, an Origin, and a Nucleus. My origin runs as smooth as either of the tl3’s. Matter of fact it is WAY smoother than one of them. They have not been dlc’d As of yet.

The Nucleus runs just as smooth and there is minimal bump onclose and I have one of the first ones out the door.

I REALLY like the ability to run savage prefits and swapable bolt heads as I’m a tinkerer.

I wouldn’t feel the least bit bad about going with the origin if I were in your shoes. Have mine setup with a Dasher shouldered barrel currently and feeding with accurate mags and PVA or Primal guts has been flawless.
 
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Can someone explain the "bump on close" issue with the Nucleus? My search on here didn't turn enough info for a newbie like myself to figure it out.
 
jerryrva said:
Can someone explain the "bump on close" issue with the Nucleus? My search on here didn't turn enough info for a newbie like myself to figure it out.
Click to expand...
If you do some more searches and use "cock" in lieu of "bump" you may find more explanations.
As well as some likely unwanted results too:ROFLMAO:
 
jerryrva said:
Can someone explain the "bump on close" issue with the Nucleus? My search on here didn't turn enough info for a newbie like myself to figure it out.
Click to expand...

When running the bolt slow, there can be a little hitch on close. this problem is really negated bc any new action will be shipped with the gen2 bolt head that doesnt do this and if you have one now, you will soon be able to send it in and get a new one
 
jerryrva said:
Can someone explain the "bump on close" issue with the Nucleus? My search on here didn't turn enough info for a newbie like myself to figure it out.
Click to expand...
I would not worry about it. It was much ado about nothing, to misuse Bill Shakespeare’s prose. Mostly, it wasn’t evident to anyone unless you closed your action very softly and slowly. Something which almost nobody actually does in real life. I have an early realease Nucleus also, and have never noticed it. But then I don’t set at the kitchen table and play with my action.

As mentioned, new actions have resolved even that perceived issue.
 
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I voted for the Atlas it was the first custom action I've ever purchased and am very satisfied with it.
It is extremely smooth and isn't even broken in yet, comes standard with nitride treated finish is a simple design with fewer parts than some of the others I was looking at so in my reasoning fewer things to break, wear out or go wrong with it.
The prefit barrel nut idea was a consideration until I found out that I can get prefit shouldered barrels for it without the need to send the action in due to Kelblys holding the headspace tolerance to .001" so that was a no brainer for me.
I may be wrong but I think Bugholes does pre fits for them with the bugnut system.
Another selling point for me was actually what many consider a negative, I would prefer the pinned removable rail if I ever wanted to change the cant to a different MOA or if for some reason the rail were to get damaged.
And it certainly didn't hurt my decision considering Kelbly's long proven track record and support of shooting sports.
I just bought another one so I guess I'm a fan of the Atlas action.
 
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So... its looking like the majority favor the origin. The fact that the actually hopped into the thread to clear up some info also pushes me that way in addition to the poll numbers.

Can anyone mount a defense as to why I shouldnt go for the origin?
 
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spife7980 said:
So... its looking like the majority favor the origin. The fact that the actually hopped into the thread to clear up some info also pushes me that way in addition to the poll numbers.

Can anyone mount a defense as to why I shouldnt go for the origin?
Click to expand...

No defense here, I have had several TL3s and I really love them. One of my favorite actions. I have no doubt in the Origin as the guys at Bighorn make a phenomenal action and they have even better customer service.
 
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spife7980 said:
So... its looking like the majority favor the origin. The fact that the actually hopped into the thread to clear up some info also pushes me that way in addition to the poll numbers.

Can anyone mount a defense as to why I shouldnt go for the origin?
Click to expand...

If this is the last rifle\action you ever buy then id be looking to drop a bit more coin getting into a custom action but lets be honest... we all have a problem, and ill be the first to admit it! but this action isnt lacking and is still beautifully simple. itll do all that you need untill you feel like smashing your piggy bank in a few years. I wouldnt mind a TL3 but the origin does the same thing for less.
 
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This is just my experience but I thought I should share.

I went to the PR Expo last year wanting to compare actions and see if the Origin was indeed what I wanted. I left there wanting the Origin for sure but I also learned something. After playing with all the actions I realized they are ALL awesome. So I picked the one with the features I wanted and I am very happy I did.
 
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XLR308 said:
I think all on your list are top tier personally but also think you've allready made up your mind on what you want.
This thread was actually pretty fun keeping up with though.
Click to expand...
I sort of intended to go with what people voted up but reserved the right to veto with my gut. As of yet my guts undecided lol.

What ever it is Ill be going dasher, optics planet had/has a forster sale going on so I got the dies for a good price. Its funny thats how easy it was to make my mind up on that lol.

I like the origin in that I can swap bolt heads should I want a valkyrie or ppc in the future but thats an IF... That wont be for a long time, I have to shoot out this current 6xc and then what will be the new dasher before I think about that.

I would go with the 20moa rail and only swap barrels when they are shot out so would the tl3 really be of any benefit? Seems they would all go unnoticed by me. Other than that its just that its stainless and dlc but I have some dlc in an ar and I cant tell a shits worth of difference between it and any other carrier group. So I dont think the nitiride would be any big sacrifice?

The biggest thing I dont like about it is the sliding savage style extractor but I said that in a thread before and I got jumped on because it clearly works a whole hell of a lot better. I like the nucleus much more. The tenacity with the mini16 is better.

Ill try to hold off on anything until after shot just incase of something amazing I guess
 
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There really isn't a right or wrong choice.

I had an Origin and a PVA barrel and ended up selling it. The build I had planned was going to cost somewhere north of $5k and it just didn't make any sense for me to spend that kind of cash for something I honesty wasn't going to shoot that much.

Me being me, I bought a new Rem 700 stainless action that was listed in the post exchange yesterday. Hey, it was only $300.. Now my goal it to build a Remage for around $1k + glass. Everything will be bought used if possible.
 
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You really need to get a Kelblys in your hand! If you're going to shot, there will be one at the XLR booth. Number 32009. You wont be disappointed.
 
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Sheldon N said:
My advice is hold off, don't upgrade until you can get the action you REALLY want. Whether that's an Impact, TL3, whatever. Otherwise you're just gonna find yourself 3 barrels into this one, stuck with some proprietary stuff, action wrenches, remage vs savage vs shouldered prefits and that's going to make upgrading harder in the future. What you really want is an action that's reliable and gets out of the way to let you shoot, and that you're not going to want to upgrade again in the future. The extra couple hundred dollars and waiting to save up that $$ is well worth it in the grand scheme of things.
Click to expand...

I agree with this 100%. Most of all Spife go put hands on the actions and you'll figure out which one you like best. We can write pages and pages but ultimately it's going to be how it feels to you not us.

Of those i'd agree the Origin is hard to pass up for the money. I've only handled an Axiom once and we have an Origin. The Axiom is nice but it's steadily gone up in price compared to what it used to be if memory serves ($950 once upon a time). For the price my brother paid for his Origin ($750 promotional) i'm not sure there was a better deal. I love his build. Our Origin is much slicker than my TL3 was and much less prone to binding.

kthomas said:
Personally I've come to prefer the 105/5 that my Mausingfield has.

You don't win matches by running the bolt fast. You want to run the bolt smooth and deliberately, not as fast as you can. I shoot much better when I shoot smooth and deliberately. Look at top shooters such as Matt B. Or Dave Preston - they run the bolt smoothly, they are not rushing that bolt closed.

The 105/5 (aka cock on open), allows the sight picture to be undisturbed when closing the bolt. As you are opening your bolt, your sight picture has already been disturbed from recoil. Then, as you are smoothly and deliberately closing the bolt, you are getting your rifle back on target and settled in and if done right you are ready to send one once the bolt is closed.

I don't buy into the speed argument, and why I think 60° actions are more of a gimmick than anything.
Click to expand...

I think if time were more of a factor like USPSA it'd be a valid argument. But that's a very true statement. My friends that shoot much better than i do run the bolt slow and deliberate. I wont admit that it might be my downfall just yet because they shoot more than i do by a long shot and my ego lol. I run my tempest like it's going out of style, but admittedly it's not an action you can run slow without disturbing it a bit. The hitch on close is something many complain about. Though i'm not sure i'll find a 2-lug that feels like a 3-lug feeding from an AW mag. I know i could switch to polymer but i really disliked the reduction in COL.

The only guy i see that runs the bolt faster than most anyone and shoots as good as anyone out there is Phil Velayo but you're talking about a guy that has seriously honed his craft over more than a decade of shooting via his military background and competitive career. It's fun to watch him shoot though, dude is downright impressive.
 
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Not a thread hijack but a piece of info that may be important if it turns out to be true.

I heard that the Curtis Actions have hardness issues.
 
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