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Saw this posted to the Facebooks:
Introducing: NEW .22LR rounds Lapua Long Range & Lapua Super Long Range
Our Lapua quality has been around for 100 years, and today, we are proud to celebrate this milestone by presenting two new rimfire cartridges designed for ranges at 100 m/yds and beyond: The Lapua Long Range and Super Long Range, designed for those who are looking for the best of the best in extreme long distance shooting with .22 caliber ammunition.
These rounds show excellent performance on targets at 100 m/yds and beyond, and are the perfect option for disciplines such as Long Range, PRS, rimfire benchrest and field target shooting. With a muzzle velocity of 337 m/s or 1106 fps, Lapua Long Range and Super Long Range come with a flat trajectory and improved wind performance. Both cartridges bring a competitive advantage to any top shooter, with the Super Long Range giving the very best group accuracy.
Feel our Passion for Precision at the rimfire range this year with Lapua Long Range and Lapua Super Long Ra
I don't post ammo test results, but if enough shooters post test results on this new offering from Lapua we might find out if it's worthy of the name Super Long Range! I'll start by listing equipment used 25in Shilen barreled Turbo V3 action. Nightforce 15x55. Chicon stock. Harrels tuner. Pappas one piece rest Shooting done at100yds from a bench. Conditions cloudy. light to no wind. 60 degrees. 100 rounds of SLR shot against 100 rounds of my control lot of CenterX. Shot multiple 10 shot groups first. No difference in group size! The SLR shot with my Center X which is a very good lot. No difference in sound but the SLR groups were at least 1moa higher than the CenterX groups Higher speed obviously. Next I went to a grid target. Grids show vertical much better than groups. 10 shot strings 1in spacing on grids. Shot multiple strings of both SLR and CenterX .I'll have to give the edge to the SLR. Easy to see vertical on the grids. It did shoot flatter, but not by much. Now here's something to think about. My barrel is tuned with my control lot of CenterX. I'm not one to change tuner settings every time my wife changes panties. Tune it and leave it, but bullet speed does effect tuner settings and this SLR is faster. Next session I'll see if there is a better tune for the SLR. If there is and I can take some more vertical out of this new ammo? Well, there may be something to it. Will see! Sorry about not having target pictures. Wasn't planning on this post. Got to thinking on the way home from the range . I'll do pictures next time.Saw this posted to the Facebooks:
Introducing: NEW .22LR rounds Lapua Long Range & Lapua Super Long Range
Our Lapua quality has been around for 100 years, and today, we are proud to celebrate this milestone by presenting two new rimfire cartridges designed for ranges at 100 m/yds and beyond: The Lapua Long Range and Super Long Range, designed for those who are looking for the best of the best in extreme long distance shooting with .22 caliber ammunition.
These rounds show excellent performance on targets at 100 m/yds and beyond, and are the perfect option for disciplines such as Long Range, PRS, rimfire benchrest and field target shooting. With a muzzle velocity of 337 m/s or 1106 fps, Lapua Long Range and Super Long Range come with a flat trajectory and improved wind performance. Both cartridges bring a competitive advantage to any top shooter, with the Super Long Range giving the very best group accuracy.
Feel our Passion for Precision at the rimfire range this year with Lapua Long Range and Lapua Super Long Range!
View attachment 8046129
Lot number for Lapua Long Range.....34557/607455
Super Long Range.....36557/607362
Super Long Range.....36557/607362
Super long Range -36557/607362
My Lapua Long Range is 36xxx so it's going to be a speedy one assuming Lapua's lot #s are still velocity based.
My Center-X is 26xxx which means 326m/s out of their rifle.
This LLR being 36xxx would mean 336 m/s out of their rifle, so 10m/s faster.
Right now my Center-X chronos at 1078... so that means this LLR should chrono close to 1110.
I'm going to be testing this afternoon today hopefully. Haven't shot since I went to Capstone in AZ a few weeks ago. I got to tour the facility and learned a bit.
The only thing SK and Lapua share are the cases. The machines are in separate facilities. SK does it owns thing and Lapua does its own thing. This is also a reason why the test centers stopped testing SK... there is a possibility that things like SK LR, RM etc test better than Center-X.
The machines at Lapua churn out the ammo which then get tested in their Lothar Walther barrels. It is sorted by group size as the priority, and then ES/SD as the secondary. Based on the outcomes, they cut a certain % out to be
X-Act -> Midas -> Center-X -> Pistol King.
The LLR and SLR are going to be utilizing the same machines as the primary assembly line so it'll be taking away some of the production capacity.
My Center-X is 26xxx which means 326m/s out of their rifle.
This LLR being 36xxx would mean 336 m/s out of their rifle, so 10m/s faster.
Right now my Center-X chronos at 1078... so that means this LLR should chrono close to 1110.
I'm going to be testing this afternoon today hopefully. Haven't shot since I went to Capstone in AZ a few weeks ago. I got to tour the facility and learned a bit.
The only thing SK and Lapua share are the cases. The machines are in separate facilities. SK does it owns thing and Lapua does its own thing. This is also a reason why the test centers stopped testing SK... there is a possibility that things like SK LR, RM etc test better than Center-X.
The machines at Lapua churn out the ammo which then get tested in their Lothar Walther barrels. It is sorted by group size as the priority, and then ES/SD as the secondary. Based on the outcomes, they cut a certain % out to be
X-Act -> Midas -> Center-X -> Pistol King.
The LLR and SLR are going to be utilizing the same machines as the primary assembly line so it'll be taking away some of the production capacity.
My long range is the same lot#
Well haven't shot groups in a long time, and shooting it all in prone, bipod and rear bag. The Center-X 27xx lot was from GSI random lot. The 26xx lot was lot tested at Lapua Test Center AZ. And the LLR was a random lot 36xx from GSI that I just got. First time taking them out for groups. Clean barrel so maybe that's why the 27xx was a little shaky to start or probably me warming up, it actually shot well at Lapua.
Chrono wise -
Center-X 27xx
Center-X 26xx
LLR 36xx
It was slightly breeze, like 1-3mph winds and 46 degrees.
I think I'll keep this LLR...
10 shot group at 104 yards was .75"
Chrono wise -
Center-X 27xx
Center-X 26xx
LLR 36xx
It was slightly breeze, like 1-3mph winds and 46 degrees.
I think I'll keep this LLR...
10 shot group at 104 yards was .75"
How much was shipping? It was $15 for two bricks of Long Range for me.
I'll run a box of SLR out of my 22" v22 tomorrow to see the data. Will post results.
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Your rifle definitely likes that lot.
Spent most of the day today at the range shooting The new Lapua SLR against Center X. Gun used today was my Muller barreled Vudoo 360.. First I checked my tune at 50yds with this new SLR. My original tune with CenterX held up with the Faster SLR. One note about 50yds. Just because it says Long range don't think it wont shoot at 50. This particular lot of SLR is some of the most accurate 50yd ammo i've ever ran through this gun. After shooting multiple groups and grid strings most of the day the wind finally laid and i'm posting my final target shot at 100yds. Two 10 shot groups and grid strings with Center X. Then the same with SLR. My conclusions are the same as my first test. The SLR has a slight edge when it comes to vertical. One final note .The SLR groups don't reflect this less Vertical . Like a DA, I shot my hold points out. Scope was zeroed dead on for the grid targets. Most of the day the SLR groups didSaw this posted to the Facebooks:
Introducing: NEW .22LR rounds Lapua Long Range & Lapua Super Long Range
Our Lapua quality has been around for 100 years, and today, we are proud to celebrate this milestone by presenting two new rimfire cartridges designed for ranges at 100 m/yds and beyond: The Lapua Long Range and Super Long Range, designed for those who are looking for the best of the best in extreme long distance shooting with .22 caliber ammunition.
These rounds show excellent performance on targets at 100 m/yds and beyond, and are the perfect option for disciplines such as Long Range, PRS, rimfire benchrest and field target shooting. With a muzzle velocity of 337 m/s or 1106 fps, Lapua Long Range and Super Long Range come with a flat trajectory and improved wind performance. Both cartridges bring a competitive advantage to any top shooter, with the Super Long Range giving the very best group accuracy.
Feel our Passion for Precision at the rimfire range this year with Lapua Long Range and Lapua Super Long Range!
View attachment 8046129
I made it to the 25 yard indoor range, test results below. SD: Green = <10, Yellow = 10.1-15, Red = 15.1+. Rifle is a Vudoo Three-60 with 20" Ace MTU 1:16" barrel. Accuracy was perfect (10 rounds in the same hole was easy), but why wouldn't it be at 25 yards?
One thing I didn't know, SK and Lapua have the same head stamp...is that normal?
This is not my "good" lot of SKPM (SD 5.8-7.4), I have 4 bricks of that left that I'm saving for competitions.
One thing I didn't know, SK and Lapua have the same head stamp...is that normal?
This is not my "good" lot of SKPM (SD 5.8-7.4), I have 4 bricks of that left that I'm saving for competitions.
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Head Stamps:
Vudoo:
Vudoo:
I know SK is essentially lower grade (supposedly) Lapua ammo, and a lot of other ammo RWS for example, Norma is made by them and they have the same head stamp. It didn't surprise me that SK and Lapua are the same case, just thought they may have been different for the "prestige" factor of Lapua. Hehe.
SK isn't a grade of Lapua ammo. It is SK ammo. While they may be visually similar and their casings may share the same headstamp, they are made on different production lines, one exclusively for SK, another for Lapua.
Every component that goes into match ammo is graded into batches or lots. It seems to make sense that the best grades of cases will be used on the Lapua production line.
It's possible that part of the overall ammo grading process includes tracking the various components to have the best batches of cases, bullets, propellant, and priming compound be used together in the loading process. The result would be that the best grades of components are assigned to the top grades of ammo.
Of course this doesn't necessarily provide a foolproof system for consistently producing the best lots of ammo. But it may help explain why some lots of top grades shoot less well than expected and some lots of lesser grades shoot better than expected.
Every component that goes into match ammo is graded into batches or lots. It seems to make sense that the best grades of cases will be used on the Lapua production line.
It's possible that part of the overall ammo grading process includes tracking the various components to have the best batches of cases, bullets, propellant, and priming compound be used together in the loading process. The result would be that the best grades of components are assigned to the top grades of ammo.
Of course this doesn't necessarily provide a foolproof system for consistently producing the best lots of ammo. But it may help explain why some lots of top grades shoot less well than expected and some lots of lesser grades shoot better than expected.
They say SK is made on the machines that no longer keep the tolerance(s) of Lapua, and get moved to the SK facility. I've read about a lot of tests where people had better results with SKRM than they did with Lapua Center-X...I'm sure that is up for debate...just like you see more unfavorable reviews of good stuff than you do with similar "lower grade" stuff. I'm guilty of that myself.
I have a lot of SKPM that is remarkably better than both lots of SKRM I've shot...granted the SKRM I have now is pretty good, but that lot of SKPM is still better. The other lot of SKPM (one I used today) isn't as good as the current lot of SKRM, but still on par with that first lot of SKRM, and maybe a tick better.
I have a lot of SKPM that is remarkably better than both lots of SKRM I've shot...granted the SKRM I have now is pretty good, but that lot of SKPM is still better. The other lot of SKPM (one I used today) isn't as good as the current lot of SKRM, but still on par with that first lot of SKRM, and maybe a tick better.
I just got back from a tour of Capstone and they said that the machines are totally separate in separate facilities. They use the same cases.
The ammo for Lapua is produced and then tested for group size out of their lothar Walther barrels and secondary track the es/SD.
Best becomes x-act, then Midas, then center-x, then pistol king.
The ammo for Lapua is produced and then tested for group size out of their lothar Walther barrels and secondary track the es/SD.
Best becomes x-act, then Midas, then center-x, then pistol king.
Did they confirm why they (lapua test center) won't lot test the new offerings?
All their mfging is going to distributors. So they don't have enough supply to lot test.
What about the Biathlon line?
Biathlon is 1,106fps ammo. X-act, Midas+ and Center-X are all 1,073fps ammo.
In regards to what line it's produced on and how they delineate what's what. Biathlon, Polar, Extreme.
Biathlon also uses a different bullet shape, #7, where as Center X and the rest use shape #5 (the middle number of the lot#)
At SHOT and various videos they said the goal was to get them into retails stores first and within some time (6mos/1 year) it'll be in the testing centers as well.
Can anyone expand on this reference Biathlon - is that a better bullet shape for long range or?
It's a better shape for more reliable loading with biathlon repeating rifles.
Below, left, an image of Lapua Polar Biathlon. On the right is an image of the Center X, Midas +, X-Act round. Note the difference in bullet shape.
Limited weight and velocity testing of Lapua Midas+, LR, SLR and SKLRM.
Rifle: 40XB with 27 1/4" factory barrel, no tuner.
15 rounds in 3 5-shot groups each.
Winds light and variable.
At 50 yards, very little correlation between cartridge weight and muzzle velocity, but I believe this might show up further downrange.
Rifle: 40XB with 27 1/4" factory barrel, no tuner.
15 rounds in 3 5-shot groups each.
Winds light and variable.
At 50 yards, very little correlation between cartridge weight and muzzle velocity, but I believe this might show up further downrange.
I got some lapua long range in today and ran to the range shoots pretty darn good out of the rimx the first 100yd group was 5 shots a little over an inch acclimating the ammo after shooting sk plus rimx has a 21” Shilen 1-16 ratchet rifling on it.
Speed averaged 1112
Sd 3
Es 11 from the magneto speed
Speed averaged 1112
Sd 3
Es 11 from the magneto speed
Attachments
Analysis Paralysis . . .
I decided to take a closer look at the correlations between cartridge weight and muzzle velocity from yesterday's testing.
Some interesting results . . .
(Yes - all manner of threats to validity, including small sample size, so beware of definitive conclusions.)
Below are the correlation graphs for the four ammo types.
Several observations:
1. All observed correlations are somewhat weak.
2. Correlation line is reversed between SKLRM (heavier rounds are slower, lighter rounds faster) vs. Lapua LR and SLR (heavier rounds are faster, lighter rounds slower). No explanation. Ideas? (I have two.)
3. Midas+ shows very low correlation, but the ammo weight was very consistent.
4. Elimination of light and heavy weight "outliers" would flatten the slope a LOT.
The take-away/action items from this might be somewhat different depending upon type of shooting (i.e. 50 yards vs 300+ yards).
I'm going to weight sort all rounds used in competition.
I decided to take a closer look at the correlations between cartridge weight and muzzle velocity from yesterday's testing.
Some interesting results . . .
(Yes - all manner of threats to validity, including small sample size, so beware of definitive conclusions.)
Below are the correlation graphs for the four ammo types.
Several observations:
1. All observed correlations are somewhat weak.
2. Correlation line is reversed between SKLRM (heavier rounds are slower, lighter rounds faster) vs. Lapua LR and SLR (heavier rounds are faster, lighter rounds slower). No explanation. Ideas? (I have two.)
3. Midas+ shows very low correlation, but the ammo weight was very consistent.
4. Elimination of light and heavy weight "outliers" would flatten the slope a LOT.
The take-away/action items from this might be somewhat different depending upon type of shooting (i.e. 50 yards vs 300+ yards).
I'm going to weight sort all rounds used in competition.
The causes of velocity variations when weighing cartridges? 
That was my question also....so I disassembled 150 cartridges and weighed the components.
It turned out I had no idea what I was weighing, when I measured the total cartridge weight.
I had figured it was the difference in powder, right? Everything else has to be the same, right?
It's mass production, it all comes off the same machines so the components should all be identical, right?
I was wrong. They're not.
No two cartridges had the same component weights.
Bullets, primer, powder and brass all varied, a hefty percentage.
CCI SV, Tenex and CCI 22 wmr all had major differences in component weights.
I still have the spread sheets I generated around here somewhere.
That was my question also....so I disassembled 150 cartridges and weighed the components.
It turned out I had no idea what I was weighing, when I measured the total cartridge weight.
I had figured it was the difference in powder, right? Everything else has to be the same, right?
It's mass production, it all comes off the same machines so the components should all be identical, right?
I was wrong. They're not.
No two cartridges had the same component weights.
Bullets, primer, powder and brass all varied, a hefty percentage.
CCI SV, Tenex and CCI 22 wmr all had major differences in component weights.
I still have the spread sheets I generated around here somewhere.
"No two cartridges had the same component weights.
Bullets, primer, powder and brass all varied, a hefty percentage."
Good to know. Thank you for the info.
I think the takeaway is still the same > eliminate light/heavy outliers.
I would also think that larger weight differences would likely be in bullet weight. Any data on this?
Also, my 27 1/4" barrel may make these correlations different than shorter barrels.
Bullets, primer, powder and brass all varied, a hefty percentage."
Good to know. Thank you for the info.
I think the takeaway is still the same > eliminate light/heavy outliers.
I would also think that larger weight differences would likely be in bullet weight. Any data on this?
Also, my 27 1/4" barrel may make these correlations different than shorter barrels.
Ammo Crapshoot
RT....y'er having way too much fun poking fun at my journey into tedium. :p Keep it up and you get to do the next batch....ooooh....that was too harsh a reply. :confused: I wouldn't make anyone attempt this, unless they enjoy succumbing to their OCD. ;)
www.snipershide.com Here ya' go Rider
I'd tend to agree. Seems sort of hopeless to sort by cartridge weight when you have no idea what is deviating.The causes of velocity variations when weighing cartridges?
That was my question also....so I disassembled 150 cartridges and weighed the components.
It turned out I had no idea what I was weighing, when I measured the total cartridge weight.
I had figured it was the difference in powder, right? Everything else has to be the same, right?
It's mass production, it all comes off the same machines so the components should all be identical, right?
I was wrong. They're not.
No two cartridges had the same component weights.
Bullets, primer, powder and brass all varied, a hefty percentage.
CCI SV, Tenex and CCI 22 wmr all had major differences in component weights.
I still have the spread sheets I generated around here somewhere.
The point isn't necessarily to understand the source of the variation (although inquiring minds want to know), but to correlate a sortable parameter to potentially reduce the variation on targets. BTW - much of my current OCD testing is because I recently shot a 2000-11X in an ARA competition, and one target was a ZERO! Dropped out the bottom for no discernable reason. Not wind, not gun handling - no explanation other than ammo variability. I want to try to eliminate (reduce?) this in future matches.
But that's the thing, by your own observation there is very little to no correlation. It's understandable to want to have some sort of way to improve the consistency of rimfire ammo but sorting via weight clearly isn't it.
A bad thing to get into. Usually does more harm than good especially in the mental game not to mention wasting money on ammo. You FUBARd a match. Move on. Don't overly stress it. Could have been one bad box that slipped through and nothing you or the rest of the ammo did.
Those are pretty poor R squared values so not sure what conclusions you can draw from this data.Analysis Paralysis . . .
I decided to take a closer look at the correlations between cartridge weight and muzzle velocity from yesterday's testing.
Some interesting results . . .
(Yes - all manner of threats to validity, including small sample size, so beware of definitive conclusions.)
Below are the correlation graphs for the four ammo types.
Several observations:
1. All observed correlations are somewhat weak.
2. Correlation line is reversed between SKLRM (heavier rounds are slower, lighter rounds faster) vs. Lapua LR and SLR (heavier rounds are faster, lighter rounds slower). No explanation. Ideas? (I have two.)
3. Midas+ shows very low correlation, but the ammo weight was very consistent.
4. Elimination of light and heavy weight "outliers" would flatten the slope a LOT.
The take-away/action items from this might be somewhat different depending upon type of shooting (i.e. 50 yards vs 300+ yards).
I'm going to weight sort all rounds used in competition.
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