Arguably their best optic these days…
Rifle Scopes New Schmidt & Bender PM2 6-36x56
- Thread starter Just Macca
- Start date
Without a doubt
No, apparently not even started manufacture yet. Expected February.
Why would EO bother with this when they can just sell M8541’s instead?
The 6-36 should be delivered around June and the Bluetooth is something they're still working on
Will you be stocking these Doug?
We are accepting preorders
After I just bought one (a 3-20) like an a-hole...
A French distributor just visited S&B and claimed they got their hands on the first ones.
IWA exhibition in about 2 weeks, I'll say hello to S&B then.
Is the Bluetooth thing for real?
I really hope S$B knocks it out of the park w this 6-36.. patiently waiting.
Yeah. I just hope that uh they add some more reticle options for the 6-36. The current ones are disappointing to say the least.
Is the irony of a fella named Jerry working for a German company not lost on anyone else?
No, Lisa from S&B confirmed they're back to selling to everyone again.
Huh. I wonder if they blamed Euro for lack of sales? It was my impression S&B set the prices, so if that’s the case they’re crazy if they think that just allowing more retailers to sell their wares will change anything.
I mean, their current prices are ludicrous. Insulting, even.
I bet the prices tumble again like they did in 2017-2018.
Short dots went from 4700 to 3700 back to 5300 and now 6000. If they want to sell in the US the prices have to come down.
Yup, new prices are rapidly pricing me out of my favorite optic brand. I've added two 5-20x USs recently, and both were around $3k because they were the older models. As much as I'd love a 6-36x, it's hard to compete with Vortex's 6-36x (not a fan of Vortex generally, but this scope is easily their best to date) at 1/3 the price. And now that I'm shopping for something in the 40x-ish range it's hard to spend over $6k when a ZCO 8-40x is quite a bit less. And even worse, the USD currently has near parity with the Euro, so it's not like a big conversion difference is the issue.
yeaahhh. They'll have to fix this shit fast. It's a shame because the guys at Winchester, VA are great people.
We get what we pay for in life… I will gladly pay for quality.
Are the guys on the Defiance thread still bitching about a 40% increase?
Are the guys on the Defiance thread still bitching about a 40% increase?
I haven't heard anything definitive on this front, just that they are opening up the channels for other dealers in the US again.
I think it will change some but I don't think the change will be enough to overcome the hole they've dug themselves into.
I'm sure 2020 didn't help anything and now with limited supply chain and higher cost of materials they felt justified in their price increases, but they've priced themselves out of a market they helped define. There will always be folks buying S&B regardless of the price; however, there is way too much competition and options, very good options, from other companies these days.
Glad I'm not the only one who remembers this, Schmidt was getting overpriced back then and then did a huge USA price slash which got everyone back interested in them, I'd like to say we'll see this happen again but not sure this time around.
This is the real shame right here.
Around:
5K for the 5-45
4.5K for the 3-27 and 6-36
3.5-4K for the 5-25, 3-20 US and 5-20US
3.5 for the Short Dot Dual CC
and they'd be right back in it. Hopefully someone wakes them up. I like having options.
Correct, however, with the way S&B treated all their dealers for the time being we are only bringing scopes in as they're ordered.
"I think now, looking back, we did not fight S&B; we fought ourselves. And the enemy was in us. The war is over for me now, but it will always be there, the rest of my days as I'm sure S&B will be, fighting with Jerry for what Glassaholic called possession of my soul. There are times since, I've felt like the child born of those two fathers. But, be that as it may, those of us who did buy S&Bs when they were cheaper have an obligation to buy again, to teach to others what we know, and to try with what's left of our lives to find a goodness and a meaning to this life."
hey I can’t buy thetas and shit if I’m paying 40% more per action bud.Are the guys on the Defiance thread still bitching about a 40% increase?
We get what we pay for in life… I will gladly pay for quality.
Are the guys on the Defiance thread still bitching about a 40% increase?
Poor people noises? Pshaw my good man.
I know you didn’t meme the Angry Poor Noises gif (@TheOE800 was joking), but that vibe is what your comment is implies.
And paying for quality? Good lord, I’m all about that!
But I don’t like being taken advantage of.
Are you trying to out-snob the snobs?
Here’s the thing…S&B isn’t exactly topping the charts anymore. You might like a certain zoom range or turret, but…there are literally equal-to-better quality scopes that cost a LOT less.
And I know the word “quality” has an insanity-causing slipperiness to it.
So at this point it’s sorta more like:
Here are some screen shots of S&B pricing off of EO today. But first keep in mind:
5-25 TT = $5100 (3xr)
5-27 ZCO = $4000 (3x)
6-36 Vortex = low $2k
S&B 5-25 = $5450 (grid, DT II+)
The top three scopes are usually considered a bit better than the S&B 5-25.
But yet the S&B is $1400 more than the ZCO, $350 more than the TT, and ~$2200 more than the Razor. The latter of which ILya has said in a video that it’s very close to the ZCO.
And then there are these ludicrous prices
Again, first keep in mind:
ZCO 4-20 = $3740 (3x)
March 3-24x52 = $3000
March 4.5-28 = $3600 (locking turrets)
March 5-42 = ~$4200 (locking turrets)
ZCO 8-40 = $4150 (3x)
Yeah, that S&B 5-45 is worth ~$2850 more than the 5-42 March or ZCO 8-40. Yeah, totally.
If I call and ask for best price, I can almost buy a NF 7-35 for that, new.
Basically, the below sums up the S&B attitude towards US consumers who can afford their scopes and scopes that are equal to or better than theirs.
Go cry in your money, old man
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Honestly I do think S&B is off the goop because the 5-25 prices are 500-600 more than the 6-36. I expect a steep correction within the year. At 2999 I think my PMII was a "steal" compared to this shit.View attachment 8077572
Poor people noises? Pshaw my good man.
I know you didn’t meme the Angry Poor Noises gif (@TheOE800 was joking), but that vibe is what your comment is implies.
And paying for quality? Good lord, I’m all about that!
But I don’t like being taken advantage of.
Are you trying to out-snob the snobs?
Here’s the thing…S&B isn’t exactly topping the charts anymore. You might like a certain zoom range or turret, but…there are literally equal-to-better quality scopes that cost a LOT less.
And I know the word “quality” has an insanity-causing slipperiness to it.
So at this point it’s sorta more like:
Here are some screen shots of S&B pricing off of EO today. But first keep in mind:
5-25 TT = $5100 (3x)
5-27 ZCO = $4000 (3x)
6-36 Vortex = low $2k
S&B 5-25 = $5450 (grid, DT II+)
The top three scopes are usually considered a bit better than the S&B 5-25.
But yet the S&B is $1400 more than the ZCO, $350 more than the TT, and ~$2200 more than the Razor. The latter of which ILya has said in a video that it’s very close to the ZCO.
View attachment 8077555
View attachment 8077548
And then there are these ludicrous prices
Again, first keep in mind:
ZCO 4-20 = $3740 (3x)
March 3-24x52 = $3000
March 4.5-28 = $3600 (locking turrets)
March 5-42 = ~$4200 (locking turrets)
View attachment 8077545View attachment 8077546
View attachment 8077550
Yeah, that S&B 5-45 is worth $2850 more than the 5-42 March. Yeah, totally.
If I call and ask for best price, I can almost buy a NF 7-35 for that, new.
Basically, the below sums up the S&B attitude towards US consumer who can afford their scopes and scopes that are equal to or better than theirs.
View attachment 8077577
Effing “angry poor people noises”…
Mordecai, the blue jay, is acting like S&B:
Setting aside raw, measurable quality to the extent we can measure it, S&B has made a critical overestimation of their relative brand ranking in the US marketplace. Obviously they are trying the whole “let’s just increase $$$$$” which, in their mind, should = Gucci, Velben goods etc.
It’s not working.
Mordecai, the blue jay, is acting like S&B:
Setting aside raw, measurable quality to the extent we can measure it, S&B has made a critical overestimation of their relative brand ranking in the US marketplace. Obviously they are trying the whole “let’s just increase $$$$$” which, in their mind, should = Gucci, Velben goods etc.
It’s not working.
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Carbonbased you will never hear ANGRY POOR NOISE from this guy. Im a overworked poor guy myself. Glass quality is subjective and not every scope works w my astigmatism. S&B Schott glass works w my eyes. There is more to a scope than just glass and I'm happy to pay MY hard earned money for a S&B w MT II turrets as i feel they are a step above TT turrets.
Trust me,,, it hurts spending the money. Thought about a 7-35 TT or giving ZCO a try. I have a few buddies that run ZCO and they are impressive. Plenty of good quality, cheaper options out there!
I don’t think ANYONE has ever accused a Vortex of being better than an S&B.
I agree but covertnoob5 and ILya said the Razor 6-36 is getting awfully close to equaling the top tier…
Edit: go to around 9:45 on that vid.
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Yep it's close it you are cool with their turrets and reticles. Substantially heavier tho
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