Rifle Scopes New Schmidt & Bender PM2 6-36x56
- Thread starter Just Macca
- Start date
I can well imagine, not sure what the S&B game plan was with fucking their dealers over and reaming customers with a massive price increase. With how saturated the optics market is now with great scopes, S&B is now an easy "lol no" option.
I'd say ZCO was probably the biggest winner of S&B doing an own goal.
Certainly would have been a bonus for ZCO I would think.
they are so damn slow, its a joke they had this at 2022 shot show, what to think about their 2023 releases ..
Lol did you not see what most of us said at the beginning of the thread lol?
Obviously your first SB product roll out lol
I am a bit confused regarding everyone's price expectations for the 6-36 scope considering that the projected price is $5,170.
- S&B is providing a 6-36 versus the 7-35 or 8-40 that other brands are offering.
- The new DT II+ turrets are pretty well received.
- The barnacle illumination control is finally gone.
- parallax down to 25 yards.
- ZCO 8-40 is a few hundred less but the two I have looked through are noticeably darker than my 5-27. It is also ridiculously long.
- TT 7-35 is over $1,200 more and that is a guess I think since I haven't seen official pricing. I could have missed it. The S&B is cheaper than the TT 5-25.
- Tracking accuracy is TBD for the S&B but my two 5-25s are dead on through 10 mils of correction.
- Jury is out on TT vs S&B for IQ...we'll have to wait and see.
I think the 6-36 is just slightly overpriced. Just slightly and not worth complaining about.
Nowhere near as absurd as the updated 5-25s and 5-20s. And not in the 5-45/3-27 stratosphere.
GB’s 5-25 had 1% error
My perspective is that TT is overpriced and S&B wanted to resume the mantle of the best so they blew past TT’s pricing.
TT seems overpriced as 1) ZCO is on par with it and 2) Frank, in a recent HideTV vid, said that the TT is expensive due to the previous owners being $5m in debt. So Armament Technology, the new owner, had to price the TT high to dig out of that debt.
At about 1:17:50 in that vid he and Mark start talking about scopes and within a few minutes he says (paraphrasing), “The TT is a $2800 scope in a $4250 package.” He does say it’s a good scope, but also adds that one should spend only from $2k-$3k on a scope.
Anyway, $4k seems to be the “vibe” where top end scopes are settling at. At least that’s the signal/vibe I’m feeling, and I feel $4k is at “aspirational” pricing (i.e. a little overpriced) while TT & especially S&B are deep into clown
pricing territory. Basically testing to see what they can BTW the HideTV service is moving to another provider so the link in the current nav goes somewhere else. That somewhere else doesn’t seem to recognize my SH credentials (and perhaps yours). The link I provided is at the old url.
But the market will bear what people will pay. My 2 cents.
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I hope S&B grows a brain and recognizes this and rolls back prices to 2019 levels. This is insanity. A 5-25 being more expensive than the 6-36 makes no sense at all. Neither does an 8800 dollar 5-45 just because it has a horus and MTII turrets.
After I got to play with a TT 5-25 my opinion was that TT didn't stand for Tangent Theta it stands for Two Thousand....the amount you overpaid
I have to admit that the pricing on the new 5-25 is crazy...the changes are just not worth the cost unless they changed the optics as well to get rid of the low mag tunneling effect. Most of the 5-25 scopes on the EO site are still priced in the low 3s...
Yeah 4-5k for a 5-25/6-24 is over priced.
Look at what March is turning out for $3,200. March could make a 5-25 that is on the same level as S&B/TT if they wanted to for $3,000-$3,500.
Look at the Minox ZP5. My only reservation with Minox is that you have to send it back to Germany if something happens to it, combined with the early QC issues.
Look at what March is turning out for $3,200. March could make a 5-25 that is on the same level as S&B/TT if they wanted to for $3,000-$3,500.
Look at the Minox ZP5. My only reservation with Minox is that you have to send it back to Germany if something happens to it, combined with the early QC issues.
They did get rid of the tunneling so its a true 5-25. Still not worth it though
They did IIRC, the new 5-25 with the inline illumination (sans tumor) has a re-worked eyepiece that eliminates tunneling and provides much better FOV at 5x, at least that is what I remember Schmidt saying about it.
I think the 5-25 doesnt have the LPI but everything else is correct
Minox doesn’t have the tunneling either.
$3,200 and most people that look through it say it’s slightly better than S&B. The optical engineers that designed the 5-25 PMII also designed the optical system for TT and the Minox ZP5, they upgraded it and got rid of the tunneling.
Old tunneling 5-25 version: model starts with 677 & has rubber mag ring
New tunneling? 5-25 : starts with 689 & has metal mag ring
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The video I saw about the 6-36 made it seem like the 5-25 still tunneled.
For now the FOV specs on EO for the new ones still say 5.3 meters ( 17ft ) on the bottom end.
They still have the barnacle as well
Yeah, like @clonebuilder said, the new 5-25 still has the tumor. I happen to like the thing lol. I don’t like the “nipple” illumination LPI knob on the new 6-36 that sticks way out from the focus knob.
I can see why they designed it that way. Haptics. Small knob in the dark = illum, large knob = focus.
It just looks…nipply lol.
I like slim scopes and the tumor helps achieve that, I suppose.
Pray tell guv’nor, what is this “left hand” that you spaketh of?
I actually hope SB doesn't do the integrated illumination on everything. Super nice shooting at night not bumping your paralax. Guess I'm weird
If it was mine I would hardly qualify the 3 minutes you spent laying down rather than spending 10-30 minutes setting up the diopter and actually shooting the rifle as “play” but what do I know, I’m just a poor guy without a RAPTAR-topped AXMC.
Worst case I only overpaid by a couple hundred bucks given resale these days.
Wasn't yours...I know others that overpaid as well...one of them now has a ZCO
God bless. Still haven’t had to send a TT back out of the box, ZCO holds that honor twice.
C/N they’re all good, none are worth retail, buy what you like, S&B is outta their gourd on updated pricing.
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That’s why you can’t trust my memory, I thought I remembered reading that tunneling was addresses as well as illumination, sorry for being misleading, it was not my intent.
I’ve had the Minox ZP5 and TT 5-25 and I could not make out a discernible difference between them optically and would say they are both a step above PM II 5-25, ZCO also above PM II but under TT/ZP5 in some areas. What that means is they are all phenomenal.
Kind of, Chris Thomas of Premier Reticles fame had a hand in creating Optronika which were a hand picked team of engineers many of which came from Schmidt. After Premier was sold to ATI Optronika became German Sport Optics who then worked on the design for Minox that became the ZP5 line. At some point Minox acquired GSO and then Blaser acquired Minox, I do not think GSO is still under the Blaser umbrella but I know GSO had a hand in the Blaser Infinity scopes. I do not believe TT uses or used GSO but acquired the original design and made some minor tweaks to internals and obviously the turret design is all theirs. So yes, their is some lineage shared in all these scopes even though there are minor differences (major differences when compared to PM II). The used prices of the ZP5’s are still one of the best deals going but yes, Minox doesn’t have the greatest option if you need warranty work and later versions have much improved turret feel.
Does Minox still sell the ZP5 5-25 with the MR4? It seems like it's for sale but never in stock at a number of places.
In stock overseas, check with Optics-Trade if they’ll ship here.
I don’t think you were being misleading. I still don’t know if they actually updated the eyepiece, there was talk of that here but S&B never said anything about it that I can find and EO still has the 17ft FOV for now.
It would make sense that they are more expensive because of that but all I can find from S&B is that they now have a metal ocular and mag ring instead of rubber, like on the 5-20 ultra short.
Yeah looking over S&B’s site they don’t call out their brand new LPI combined parallax/illumination knob (that the rest of the market figured out 20 years ago) on the new 5-25 page, just on the 6-36HP and 5-20US.
They do, but a number of things have hindered their appeal in the US, not least of which is Blaser and poor marketing. CS Tactical was their biggest proponent for a number of years and I think that is what pushed their sales in the US but CS no longer carries/promotes them and they've slowly faded into memory. I'll say this, back in 2015 when I bought my first ZP5 with MR4 reticle it was the greatest thing since sliced bread (coming close to Goldilocks scope), the superb glass and ideally designed MR4 reticle made it one of the longest lasting scopes in my lineup for many years (and I regret selling them to try the shiny new objects).
I’m still rocking two used ZP5’s that I picked up for good prices. Love those scopes and think they are the best value out there for what you get. Holds zero, tracks true, extremely good image quality and eye box, turrets that are very crisp and easy to read, and a great tree reticle in the MR4. I can’t see paying north of $3 for any optic, I mean it’s just a scope.
I miss when PMIIs could be had for under 3
Several in the Px right now
I meant new lol
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