He is an excellent resource.Koshkin ......."Dark Lord of Optics" is probably working on that
He is an excellent resource.Koshkin ......."Dark Lord of Optics" is probably working on that
That looks nice
ETR has slightly less vignette or black around the glass. Worse turrets. Worse parallax and worse eye box. Better fov though.Thanks, that looks like an improvement for sure from the 1" model Tracts i've owned......and no longer own.
You have an Ares ETR? right? How does the vingette on that compare to the Toric you have? The ETR I have has no notable black ring, atleast not enough to "bug me"
Thanks for your response.
Thanks....how bout that resolution on the ETR though....crazy good for a $890 scope.ETR has slightly less vignette or black around the glass. Worse turrets. Worse parallax and worse eye box. Better fov though.
Yeah, the ETR is mind blowing for the money. Cronus BTR is an exceptional scope as well for $1299 from Camerlandny
Would you take the tract over a gen 2 razor? The amg has the weight advantage which you needed but what about similar weights. Which way would you go? I may order the tract tomorrowYeh I kept my 2 ETR's for a loooong time. I finally sold them both as I upgraded one ETR to a Razor AMG, and the other ETR to the Leica. Both costing wayyyyy more than the ETR.
My biggest complaint for the ETR was the parallax was stiff and not forgiving. And the eyebox isn't that great.
Would you take the tract over a gen 2 razor? The amg has the weight advantage which you needed but what about similar weights. Which way would you go? I may order the tract tomorrow
I’ve had an amg, and have a 3-18 gen 2 razor. They look like the same glass to me. My friend has the 4.5-27 razor but I’ve never compared side by side. I will say I like my xtr3 more than his razor tho. It may just be the field of view and the more natural colors instead of the warm from the razor. I’m really worried about field of view and the “vignette” as y’all call it. I do not like the black ring while looking through scopes. I’ve never noticed it in the amg, razor, or my xtr3s. How does the toric compare to the amg with the black ring? Does it feel tunneled?I personally haven't looked through a Gen 2 Razor. No one had one in my 4 day class. Do you know how it compares to the Razor HD AMG? I know it has more travel, more light gathering, but how about just resolution/clarity?
I would take advantage of the 30 day return policy on the Tract and pick one of those up. If you don't like it, return it. This isn't the Tract, but this is the Leica vs the Razor HD AMG, and man the details pick up a lot more in the Leica.
The color representation of the Tract is more like the Leica. Vortex seems to be more 'brown'.
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This was the Tract on a different day. The above photos are at 24x, this one is at 30x. But no mirage on this day so the image is a bit clearer. Hard to compare.
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The leica has my attention as well but I believe you said no zero stop on it which is a no go. I like Razors I just wanna try something different and not bronze lol. I’m just over it. Hopefully the tunneling isn’t bad because I’ll be sending it backI’ve had an amg, and have a 3-18 gen 2 razor. They look like the same glass to me. My friend has the 4.5-27 razor but I’ve never compared side by side. I will say I like my xtr3 more than his razor tho. It may just be the field of view and the more natural colors instead of the warm from the razor. I’m really worried about field of view and the “vignette” as y’all call it. I do not like the black ring while looking through scopes. I’ve never noticed it in the amg, razor, or my xtr3s. How does the toric compare to the amg with the black ring? Does it feel tunneled?
That’s right it’s locking turrets. What in the design causes the black ring? The razor and tract are made in Japan by low correct? I wonder why they’re very different in that aspectLeica has a zero stop. It doesn't have locking turrets. Razor AMG has one of the best no black ring around the scope. Tract is one of the worse.
It doesn't bother me but it bothers some people.
That’s right it’s locking turrets. What in the design causes the black ring? The razor and tract are made in Japan by low correct? I wonder why they’re very different in that aspect
'I'd jump on the CameralandNY Athlon Cronus BTR $1299 deal. No "black ring" and I have a feeling the optics are better than the Tract. Based off the other Tracts I've owned, I've not been super impressed with their glass.
And, the Cronus BTR comes in "black"..........since you don't want brown scopes. Otherwise, get an Athlon ETR for under $900 ..............if you can stand Brown. Seriously great values in the Athlons.........I've looked through a large number of scopes. The Athlons really punch well above their price range indicates.
Any idea on where tract gets their glass from?Tract, and Cronus are all made in the same factory by LOW. I think the Razor is also... anything made in Japan really comes from LOW. The Leica also uses the LOW body of the scope, but they source their own Leica european glass. Tract also uses different glass / different coatings.
$1299 Cronus Deal is pretty good... though I haven't run a Cronus in heavy mirage days to really compare. If we're talking about the Cronus then I'd just save another $300 and just get an ETR.
They claim its Schott Glass...i know the 1" and 30mm tubed scopes get their glass from the Chinese Schott factory. I suspect the PRS ...34mm scopes are the same.Any idea on where tract gets their glass from?
Two days ago I was shooting out to 835 yards with both a Steiner P4xi 4-16x56 on a Bergara Premier highlander 6.5 creed and my Athlon Cronus BTR 4.5-29x56 on a Bergara Premier Approach in 223 with 75gr HPBTs.......the Cronus on 22x was more clear amd cut through mirage better than the Steiner on 16x.....the Steiner glass is no Joke. ........Tract, and Cronus are all made in the same factory by LOW. I think the Razor is also... anything made in Japan really comes from LOW. The Leica also uses the LOW body of the scope, but they source their own Leica european glass. Tract also uses different glass / different coatings.
$1299 Cronus Deal is pretty good... though I haven't run a Cronus in heavy mirage days to really compare. If we're talking about the Cronus then I'd just save another $300 and just get an ETR.
I’ve never really looked into athlon but I’ll do some research. ThanksTwo days ago I was shooting out to 835 yards with both a Steiner P4xi 4-16x56 on a Bergara Premier highlander 6.5 creed and my Athlon Cronus BTR 4.5-29x56 on a Bergara Premier Approach in 223 with 75gr HPBTs.......the Cronus on 22x was more clear amd cut through mirage better than the Steiner on 16x.....the Steiner glass is no Joke. ........
Point is....the Cronus is an amazing optic for $1300
Where can I find an ETR under $900? I haven't seen it that cheap.'I'd jump on the CameralandNY Athlon Cronus BTR $1299 deal. No "black ring" and I have a feeling the optics are better than the Tract. Based off the other Tracts I've owned, I've not been super impressed with their glass.
And, the Cronus BTR comes in "black"..........since you don't want brown scopes. Otherwise, get an Athlon ETR for under $900 ..............if you can stand Brown. Seriously great values in the Athlons.........I've looked through a large number of scopes. The Athlons really punch well above their price range indicates.
Where can I find an ETR under $900? I haven't seen it that cheap.
The Razor AMG is made in the US almost completely. Not Japan.That’s right it’s locking turrets. What in the design causes the black ring? The razor and tract are made in Japan by low correct? I wonder why they’re very different in that aspect
I wasn’t talking about the AMG, I’ve had a AMG and gen2 razor. I know where each is made and the one I was comparing the tract with was the gen 2 razor .The Razor AMG is made in the US almost completely. Not Japan.
Received my replacement ELR on Friday and took it out this morning working on load development. Had my other 6.5 with a PST II 5-25 as a comparison. The immediate thing I noticed was the eye relief and eye box. Wow...the Tract had a much longer relief and huge eye box compared to the Vortex...not even close. The Tract was also much brighter and detailed, as it should be. Zero stop is 100 times easier to set. This replacement has tighter turrets with 1/2 the slop of my first one...it's very acceptable now. Up to 25X the view is amazing and just slightly drops off when pushing it up to 30X. Still love how smooth everything is. I have to run a throw lever on the PST cause the zoom is so stupid tight...none of that crap needed on the ELR. For what it's worth I used low Vortex 34mm rings and they seem top notch.
A real pleasure to use and I look forward to stretching it out at longer distances...
View attachment 7399536
Received my replacement ELR on Friday and took it out this morning working on load development. Had my other 6.5 with a PST II 5-25 as a comparison. The immediate thing I noticed was the eye relief and eye box. Wow...the Tract had a much longer relief and huge eye box compared to the Vortex...not even close. The Tract was also much brighter and detailed, as it should be. Zero stop is 100 times easier to set. This replacement has tighter turrets with 1/2 the slop of my first one...it's very acceptable now. Up to 25X the view is amazing and just slightly drops off when pushing it up to 30X. Still love how smooth everything is. I have to run a throw lever on the PST cause the zoom is so stupid tight...none of that crap needed on the ELR. For what it's worth I used low Vortex 34mm rings and they seem top notch.
A real pleasure to use and I look forward to stretching it out at longer distances...
How did the FOV feel?Received my replacement ELR on Friday and took it out this morning working on load development. Had my other 6.5 with a PST II 5-25 as a comparison. The immediate thing I noticed was the eye relief and eye box. Wow...the Tract had a much longer relief and huge eye box compared to the Vortex...not even close. The Tract was also much brighter and detailed, as it should be. Zero stop is 100 times easier to set. This replacement has tighter turrets with 1/2 the slop of my first one...it's very acceptable now. Up to 25X the view is amazing and just slightly drops off when pushing it up to 30X. Still love how smooth everything is. I have to run a throw lever on the PST cause the zoom is so stupid tight...none of that crap needed on the ELR. For what it's worth I used low Vortex 34mm rings and they seem top notch.
A real pleasure to use and I look forward to stretching it out at longer distances...
View attachment 7399536
How did the FOV feel?
The one thing the Tracts lack is a wide FOV, specs wise the PST G2 is notably better.
Agree. Vortex's have a very large FoV but sacrifice glass quality. Tract has a small FoV, the smallest out of all my scopes. But glass quality is better than the Vortex's.
At 30x ~ 100 yards
Tract has 12.4mils of FoV ~ 3.7 feet
Ares ETR has 13 mils of FoV ~ 3.9 feet
Leica has 13mils of FoV ~ 3.9 feet
Lowering it down to 24x ~ 100 yardsto compare
Leica has 16 mils of FoV ~ 4.8 feet
Razor AMG has 16.4mils of FoV ~ 4.92 feet.
I really don’t think 2” difference in FOV at 100 yards is enough to really worry about. Looking at it from a practical standpoint those scopes numbers are all so close if you are scanning to transition targets at 12-15x there isn’t really enough of a difference to matter.
I just compared the tract to my xtr3 5.5-30 and my only complaint is parallax forgiveness. There’s a fence about 150yds away with a sign on it, both were blurry until the 100 yard mark on the parallax. Once I got to the 150-200 yard mark both were very clear but the Burris continues to be about the same 300 to infinity. If I adjusted the parallax past 250 on the tract it went blurry quick. The 100yd to 300 yd is maybe an 1/8th to a 1/4 turn on the tract. The xtr3 is much more spread out. I’m not sure if that makes a difference or not. Initial impression is the xtr3 and tract are so close in glass that I cannot tell which one I like better. Very similar colors as well. I do like the finer scr2 reticle on the Burris but the tract is not bad at all. The tree is there when you want it and disappears as you focus away from it. The tract tree is more obtrusive but is very manageable. Tract did a great job with the mag ring, diopter ring/adjustment, and parallax knob! Much easier to adjust compared to my xtr3 and gen 2 razor. The rubber on the diopter ring is a nice touch.Agree. I don't know that I've ever really thought about or complained about FoV in a practical sense in a match. The only thing I've complained about is eyebox, and finicky parallax. Tract does really well on those. My only reason I swapped from the Tract was I wanted #'s down the vertical of the reticle for faster holdovers.
I just compared the tract to my xtr3 5.5-30 and my only complaint is parallax forgiveness. There’s a fence about 150yds away with a sign on it, both were blurry until the 100 yard mark on the parallax. Once I got to the 150-200 yard mark both were very clear but the Burris continues to be about the same 300 to infinity. If I adjusted the parallax past 250 on the tract it went blurry quick. The 100yd to 300 yd is maybe an 1/8th to a 1/4 turn on the tract. The xtr3 is much more spread out. I’m not sure if that makes a difference or not. Initial impression is the xtr3 and tract are so close in glass that I cannot tell which one I like better. Very similar colors as well. I do like the finer scr2 reticle on the Burris but the tract is not bad at all. The tree is there when you want it and disappears as you focus away from it. The tract tree is more obtrusive but is very manageable. Tract did a great job with the mag ring, diopter ring/adjustment, and parallax knob! Much easier to adjust compared to my xtr3 and gen 2 razor. The rubber on the diopter ring is a nice touch.
Yes its very smooth. Did you notice a touchy/finicky parallax compared to the Leica? Still thinking about picking one of those upI like not having to run any sort of throw lever with the Tract. I wonder from a mechanical perspective why some mfgs make mag rings that are so tight! The Leica is smooth like the Tract, no need for a throw lever. Vortex's require one.
Yes its very smooth. Did you notice a touchy/finicky parallax compared to the Leica? Still thinking about picking one of those up
I find the parallax smoothness on the Tract to be perfect as in there's no stickiness / give. For example on my Vortex it's a very easy to turn Parallax knob, but the initial force to move it is a very slight extra give. The tract it feels like has the exact same force always to move the Parallax.
The Leica's parallax knob is pretty harder to turn and I wish it would be slightly easier to turn. In terms of finickiness, it's different on the Leica. Since the picture pops out so much more than the reticle, I find that the picture tends to almost always be sharp and clear in my eyes and I am adjusting the sharpness of the reticle #'s as I bring the parallax in place. Kind of hard to explain. But in general I find the picture in focus across a large range on the parallax knob.
The downside though is there are only 3 #'s on the parallax knob... 20, 100, infinity.
Maybe I mean fov issues I’m not sure how to explain it. I really like the parallax knob on the tract. It’s the “finickyness” of always having to adjust it compared to the xtr3 and razor. I had it set on 150-200 yards while looking at the sign, I didn’t have much window of parallax before the sign started to get blurry compared to the xtr3. I could go from 150-infinity on the xtr3 looking at that same sign and still have a good picture. The tract was blurry from 300 on while looking at that same sign. As in forgiveness I mean how often the parallax would need to be adjusted while looking at different ranges of targets. The Leica seems like a great option, I’m really thinking about grabbing one and comparing. Then selling whichever I don’t keep. Maybe keep the tract/ Leica and sell the xtr3 lol.
Both scopes at 10xWhat magnification are you doing this on? I find my Tracts and the 4.5-30 Tract I have used to have very forgiving parallax in the mag range where I would need it. usually If I’m scanning for targets at different ranges without touching parallax I’m going to be at 12-15x max. Otherwise I’m going to be shooting at a single target and will have the parallax dialed for that range.
Yes it is.Only option to order is directly from from Tract themselves?
Thanks that’s what I thought but wanted to make sure...Yes it is.
Have one in MRAD and love it. They just came out with one in MOA.I somehow stumbled upon this brand and immediately looked on here for comments on the Toric. Lots of good information in here and learned about the Cronus too. I was initially set on the Razor HD Gen2. Decisions, decisions..
Leica PRS seems to have quite a bit of Chromatic Abberation! Or is it only this bad through the camera?I personally haven't looked through a Gen 2 Razor. No one had one in my 4 day class. Do you know how it compares to the Razor HD AMG? I know it has more travel, more light gathering, but how about just resolution/clarity?
I would take advantage of the 30 day return policy on the Tract and pick one of those up. If you don't like it, return it. This isn't the Tract, but this is the Leica vs the Razor HD AMG, and man the details pick up a lot more in the Leica.
The color representation of the Tract is more like the Leica. Vortex seems to be more 'brown'.
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View attachment 7394908
This was the Tract on a different day. The above photos are at 24x, this one is at 30x. But no mirage on this day so the image is a bit clearer. Hard to compare.
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