Rifle Scopes overheard an interesting comment at range today

R

razor100

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 13, 2006
218
1
Oconomowoc, WI
#1
Went to shoot my smack the snowflake target at McMiller Sports Center in SE Wisconsin today and was on the 300 yard range. It was busier than I've ever seen it due to their Winter league starting up, 10 shots at 100 and 10 shot at 300 for score. To say me and my browning abolt 22/250 and leupold duplex 4.5-14x were envious is an understatement!
6 shooters to the right of me had Nightforces and the guy past that had a 56mm hendsolt. right before i left someone showed up with a S+B 5-25x! Anyways this one guy was bitching that his 22x Nightforce wasnt good at 300 yards and he wanted a 45x competition leupold. Ive shot out to 300 yard with my Leupold (not well my eyes suck) and while not ideal it worked.
Ive been trying to talk myself into a 17x fixed US Optics now for 6 months and dont buy much into the US Optics vs. anything else flame wars, but should I save and look into one of the Premiers, Kahles, Hendsolts, Steiners, S+B's? Haha do i need a 45x Leupold also? no one volunteered to let me look what they brought they were all way too serious for a match that was supposed to be fun. this will be going on a GAP 223 Remington that will really only see 100-300 yard range work and maybe some P Dogs in the future.
Glad the next smack the smiley isnt until after this Winter League "arms race" is over!
 
#3
Re: overheard an interesting comment at range today

Actually I have a 5.5-22 and tend to power down to 15 or less depending on the conditions. If you have mirage powering up just makes bad worse. I think that people get into more trouble with more power and that powering down really improves target acquisition. At least that is my Opinion.

-K
 
#4
Re: overheard an interesting comment at range today

Yeah you don't need all that power. Yet I will say this. I had a NF NSX and at 15 power I could not see the bullet holes in the targets at 300 yards. I now have a S&B 5-25 that I mostly run at 15 power and I have no problems seeing the holes now. So I would say clarity is better then magnification.
 
#5
Re: overheard an interesting comment at range today

I was shooting bowling pins at 600 yards with my 5.5-22x NF yesterday. I feel as if they are about the same size as a P-dog, what more does a guy need? Sounds like these guy's were trying to out do each other by who could piss more money away, rather than just getting out and shooting.
 
#6
Re: overheard an interesting comment at range today

I tried shooting 300 yards this fall with my Nightforce on 22 power and the mirage was so bad that I backed it down around 14 power.
 
#11
Re: overheard an interesting comment at range today

Everyone has a different oppinion because everyone has different eyes. If you are 20 years old you can see a target at 300 yards with iron sights. I'm 66, have astigmatism and can't see squat at 100 yards without a good scope. So, what is good? Not just power, but resolving power. And I find that the reticle is also important. With or without glasses I see two reticles due to astigmatism and one is a little fainter than the other. So, if I have too thin a reticle (which everyone including me usually likes) I can't use it anymore. Instead I need one thick enough so that I can tell which one is which. Just my 2 cents, but I suggest you look through the scopes you might want to buy, crank them up and down, and pay attention to the reticles. Then buy what works for your eyes (and I can guaranty it wont work for some eyes).
 
#12
Re: overheard an interesting comment at range today

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BillPrudden</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hello -

Ask yourself... at 300y, are any of your less-than-perfect scores the fault of the scope?

Bill </div></div>

Good advice.
 
#14
Re: overheard an interesting comment at range today

everybody knows you should have a minimum of 10x per 100yds of distance! Gosh!
cool.gif
 
#15
Re: overheard an interesting comment at range today

Razor, its hard to beat a USO ST17 for your application, I run an IOR fixed 16X and its optical clarity constantly amazes me, comparable to the S&B or Premier imho. As for magnification, shot a 300 yard match last week, turned the NXS up to 42 and left it there. The 16X gets most use though, its on my practical rifle and it get used for matches and hunting.Although the last time out, it being a fixed 16X does have its downsides, so its probably going to get replaced with a F1. If your pretty sure you are only going to use the rifle for range work or the odd p-dog hunt, then a fixed power of that magnification isn't a bad thing. Also US Optics hold their value and a GAP 223 does deserve a fine optic.
 
#16
Re: overheard an interesting comment at range today

Now I understand where I've been going wrong all these years!!
wink.gif


I shoot out to 1000yds with a a x12 or x10....in fact I don't own any scope over x12. And my eyes are 50 years old.

Sorry to say this....but blaming performance at 300yds on "only" having a x22 is like race drivers blaming their cars for their own failings.....kit can be a convenient scapegoat but everyone knows it is a BS excuse unless something is broken!

Either that or it's a "look at me and my x22 NF" type comment?

Know what you've got, learn to use it and ignore the range ninjas!

It makes the look on their faces when you out-shoot them with your "underpowered" scope so much more fun!
laugh.gif
 
#17
Re: overheard an interesting comment at range today

What I like to do to figure out what range I need in a scope is I take however far I want to shoot, lets say 500 yards, get the first digit of that number (5) and multiply if by 3, and thats the zoom I want in a scope to shoot that distance. Obviously this isn't at all scientific nor entirely practical, but this is how I do things, and it works just fine for me.
 
#18
Re: overheard an interesting comment at range today

I definitely get mirage at 20-25x in my sn3 under 200 yards so I just go out to 10-15x.

And when someone shoots better than me I really could care less. I enjoy my uso and I know that I'm not a good shooter but I like good equipment.
 
#19
Re: overheard an interesting comment at range today

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: razor100</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Went to shoot my smack the snowflake target at McMiller Sports Center in SE Wisconsin today and was on the 300 yard range. It was busier than I've ever seen it due to their Winter league starting up, 10 shots at 100 and 10 shot at 300 for score. To say me and my browning abolt 22/250 and leupold duplex 4.5-14x were envious is an understatement!
6 shooters to the right of me had Nightforces and the guy past that had a 56mm hendsolt. right before i left someone showed up with a S+B 5-25x! Anyways this one guy was bitching that his 22x Nightforce wasnt good at 300 yards and he wanted a 45x competition leupold. Ive shot out to 300 yard with my Leupold (not well my eyes suck) and while not ideal it worked.
Ive been trying to talk myself into a 17x fixed US Optics now for 6 months and dont buy much into the US Optics vs. anything else flame wars, but should I save and look into one of the Premiers, Kahles, Hendsolts, Steiners, S+B's? Haha do i need a 45x Leupold also? no one volunteered to let me look what they brought they were all way too serious for a match that was supposed to be fun. this will be going on a GAP 223 Remington that will really only see 100-300 yard range work and maybe some P Dogs in the future.
Glad the next smack the smiley isnt until after this Winter League "arms race" is over! </div></div>

Sightron has good glass for the price. Their 10-50 might work for you.

I have a Leupold 45X. Good scope, very limited versatility. Variable scopes work much better for me for many reasons.
 
#20
Re: overheard an interesting comment at range today

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DamnYuppie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah you don't need all that power. Yet I will say this. I had a NF NSX and at 15 power I could not see the bullet holes in the targets at 300 yards. I now have a S&B 5-25 that I mostly run at 15 power and I have no problems seeing the holes now. So I would say clarity is better then magnification.</div></div>
Funny you would say that ~ I agree, I can see bullet holes better with my S&B 5-25 than with my 60x Pentax Spotter.
True the S&B costs three times the Pentax but you would think the extra power would kick in.
Now I dread having to buy a new spotter.
frown.gif
 
#21
Re: overheard an interesting comment at range today

I have a 5.5-22x56 NF and have never had the problem of not enough zoom. I shot an 800 yard match a few weeks ago and could see the target very well with a guy with a Bushy on one side and an SIII on the other having a few problems.

I offed a Leupold 8.5-25x last year. I DID have problems with it zoomed over 20x on sunny days or humid days---picked up so much mirage it messed with my head. Turning it down to 15x or so it was alright.

I've also got a 3.5-15x50 NF. The 3.5-15x on 15x isn't nearly as clear to me as my 5.5-22x on the same power. I don't know if its the larger objective or just normal variance in quality.

If glass quality is most important to you, a 6.5-20x50 Zeiss Conquest will be an excellent scope at a good price point, though you'll have to give up a few of the tacticool features like ZS, illumination, etc.

Resolution is more important to me. I also have an S&B PM II 5-25x56 on order. We shall see how it does compared to my NF.
 
#24
Re: overheard an interesting comment at range today

Assuming the erector systems are equal, clarity and resolution in a scope can't be beat.

25 years ago I went on my first prairie dog shoot. All I had was a 223 and a 7-08 with 3-9 tasco scopes on them. It was all I could afford on a SrA salary. I had no problem killing the PD's at over 300 yards since my vision at the time was better than 20-20. As I got promoted, I bought better and better equipment with better and higher powered optics.

My vision remained great until about 8 years ago when I started noticing a rapid decline in my ability to spot critters and focus on the computer screen or books. I finally went to see about getting some glasses for use with reading. The doc said that my vision was 20-20 and I had nothing to worry about. I had other ideas because I knew my vision was not as good as it was before. He recommended I try out some quality reading glasses so I bought a pair that brought my reading vision back to where it was before. My game spotting ability was still pretty good, but not like it was before the decline.

A few more years went by and I noticed some of my scopes no longer seemed clear, so I went through all my guns and re-focused the ocular lenses. It helped to some degree, but with the lower powered optics nothing helped much when I used them for target shooting. I began replacing some of the low powered scopes with ones that had higher power and good resolution.

Strange thing about the changing of optics was the thing I have been trying to preach to others is that resolution is extremely important, more so than top end power. To cite an example, I was at the Manatee range shooting one of my 6 BR's. That particular rifle has a Pentax 6-24X44 lightseeker on it. It has always been a great scope that has tracked perfectly and has always seemed to be really clear. I went into the range house to wash some grit off of my hands and spotted a used Konus M-30 4.5-16 for sale. So out of curiosity, I picked it up and took a peek through it at the target butts. I was absolutely amazed at how well I could resolve the targets. I took it out to the line and focused it for my eyes and reset the parallax.

Looking through both scopes on equal powers side-by-side this inexpensive scope blew away the Pentax for resolution at all settings and at ranges all the way out to 1000 yards.

The price for the used scope was $75.00. Since I knew the street price was over $300.00, I figured I couldn't lose if I bought it and didn't like it down the road. I bought it and tried it out on a half-dozen rifles with nearly complete satisfaction. My only dislike is the mushy clicks on the turrets, but I hear that they have fixed that.

What does all of this and everything written by everyone in posts above mean? Everyone's vision in different. If your vision is 20-20 or better, you can use lower powered scopes for long range shooting. As vision declines resolution in optics becomes more and more important. Extra power with the great resolution makes things even better.

I wish I could go back to the days when a 3-9X was all I needed, but sadly those days are gone. I have to have great resolution and at least mid-range power to properly make out my aiming point at ranges past 100 yards.

To give those with great vision an idea of how things are for me and understand how I'm affected nowadays, just look up in the night sky. When you see the planet Venus next to the moon, you see a round ball of light. (I used to see the same thing) Glasses or not, I see a cross in the sky. Now that could bring up a whole 'nother discussion totally unrelated to shooting accurate rifles.....
 
#25
Re: overheard an interesting comment at range today

some people get magnification crazy, it's nice to have, but you can go over board and run into trouble, for instance, a guy hunting whitetail deer, that once every 10 years gets a 400 yard shot get a 6-18x40 or something like that, he's got to be disappointed in the low light performance that scope, or i had a guy who wanted to go dangerous game hunting with a 5-30 swarovski, which isn't a good idea for close range dangerous game. the differences and why you need what magnification range just need to be explained and clarified you have to find what fits your purpose and get the best thing available.
 
#26
Re: overheard an interesting comment at range today

I've only got a 6x42 S&B on my AW, shoots at 300 and beyond just fine...

IMG_0512.jpg


I'd love to bring it along to your shoot and have a play against all those big scopes.
 
#27
Re: overheard an interesting comment at range today

every miss on the smack the smiley target was my fault for sure, not blaming the gun or 14x scope but the loose cannon behind the trigger. just laughed at the comments i didnt really recognize any of the guns or shooters on the line. I agree resolution is the name of the game and I need every ounce of it with my glasses. Just want to buy once cry once with a good scope purchase when i get my tax returns back and since no one was gonna let me look through their toys i just figured I'd ask again. stay tuned for further questions and to see what I end up with- thanks for the help
 
#28
Re: overheard an interesting comment at range today

I have no problem what so ever shooting to 1200. And even got within 18" of a 12x12 plate at 1 mile with my st-10. Clarity means more than magnification. Get the USO and thank me later.

Good luck,
Merritt
 
#31
Re: overheard an interesting comment at range today

I use 3-15 for ranges out to and beyond 1200 yards. Sounds like you need to get around a group of guys that are a little less serious, getting behind and looking through other peoples gear will help a lot in deciding what works best for you. Someone could tell you all day long why you should by what they have, but to get a unbiased opinion, you need to decide for yourself.

Kirk R
 
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