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Suppressors reasons for a suppressor

Re: reasons for a suppressor

I don't know if someone posted this allready but the Number 1 reason for LE supressor use is around flamable gasses like you would find in Meth labs.
 
Re: reasons for a suppressor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sgt. 0811</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know if someone posted this allready but the Number 1 reason for LE supressor use is around flamable gasses like you would find in Meth labs. </div></div>

While certainly a valid reaons, claiming that its the number one reason is a little absurd. FWIW I dont think that that stat even exists and if it did I would be very happy to see it.
Besides its not like every callout is a meth lab.

Locally supressors are used to noise abadment and to aid in communication between officers during gunfire both outdoors but most importantly indoors.



ETA: I would also suggest you read up on muzzle flash from supressors. Some cans will generate a very large muzzle flash at night.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=36&t=269205
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9772&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
 
Re: reasons for a suppressor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sgt. 0811</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know if someone posted this allready but the Number 1 reason for LE supressor use is around flamable gasses like you would find in Meth labs. </div></div>

That would be a valid reason for LE to use supressors... As for me I like the quiet fun of it all.
 
Re: reasons for a suppressor

My personal reason for wanting a suppressor is to whack a varmint out of a group and none of them know their buddy just quit partying. Whack a few more before they realize the music has stopped. I've had coyotes in my back yard. And 'coons get into and 'free' my chukar that I use to train bird dogs with. They both made the mama German shorthair really nervous!
 
Re: reasons for a suppressor

HI Guys ,

To me there are 3 main reasons .

1) Noise suppresson
2) Flash suppresson
3) Recoil suppresson

But as some one already said , they can be good to introduce a newbie to shooting ,while not having to use muff's etc .
 
Re: reasons for a suppressor

Also, if one is hunting here with dogs very near and not using silencer...well, common opinion is that he must be complete idiot.
Dogs have sensitive ears. Imagine muzzle blast and multiply it by 10. Thats how it feels. Dogs just cant tell it.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blade_Zero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Restriction of suppressors came in at the same time as the other $200 tax stamp items, just after the roaring thirties. An outright ban failed on constitutional grounds, so the powers that be, circumvented it via taxation, $200 dollars was the equivilent of twos years average wage at the time. Only for the fact that they neglected to index the tax stamp for inflation, none of you would own anything fun.

The reason suppressors were restricted was over poaching concerns, people were starving at the time.</div></div>


<span style="font-weight: bold">"On the Control of Silencers in the United States"</span>

by Mark White

<span style="font-weight: bold">A Bit of Historical Background</span>

<span style="font-style: italic">In 1909 Hiram P. Maxim invented one of the first metal silencers for reducing sound levels in firearms. Silencers were innovatively marketed as the gentleman's way of target shooting. They turned out to be quite popular, and sold quite well through the 1920s, and into the early '30s. The Great Depression of the 1930s left many people out of work, leading some to poach game in order to keep their families from starving. Concurrently, crime in the 1930s rose dramatically. It was in this context that attempts were made at passing legislation prohibiting handguns and machine guns. The Second Amendment to the U.S. constitution, however, prevented such legislation, and the courts struck it down. Eventually the concept of taxation was used to evade the wording in the Second Amendment.</span>


<span style="font-weight: bold">"Can't Ban - Tax It!"</span>

<span style="font-style: italic">In 1934 a bill was passed levying a tax of $200 (4 times the price of a Thompson submachine gun at the time. For more info see Kickback link "Lex Morgenthau".) on future sales of machine guns. Short-barreled rifles and shotguns, cane guns and silencers were also thrown into the bill, almost as an afterthought. The BATF was set up, and one of its functions today is to collect such a tax. So much of the controversy dealing with Title II weapons is not that they are illegal, but that a tax will be levied on their ownership. Owning one which is not properly registered and taxed is a violation of federal tax code (tax evasion) a felony punishable by large fines and up to ten years in prison.

In the interim, included in that tax collection effort has been the process of fingerprinting, photo identification, and a background check for evidence of criminal activity and/or mental defectiveness. Typically, the most populated states (CA, NY, & NJ) are very restrictive and have their own laws preventing the ownership of firearm silencers. Today 33 states allow the possession or use of firearm silencers or suppressors. Seventeen do not. Title II weapons are tightly regulated and controlled by the federal government and its agents in the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. In general, state, county and municipal entities may own and use machine guns, silencers and destructive devices in any state.

Each weapon or device will carry its own model, make and serial number, as an aid to identification and tracking of the piece. For identification purposes a silencer is considered to be a weapon by BATF, even though its purpose is to reduce the sound of a firearm's report, not to discharge a projectile. We are not here to issue a moral or fairness judgement, but merely to report what exists in today's bureaucratic world.</span>

----clip----

<span style="font-weight: bold">Lex Morgenthau</span>

by PT Kekkonen

<span style="font-style: italic">That American "Lex Morgenthau" (F.F.A. in 1934) was a crime itself, because it was just a trick for collection of some extra tax-money for the financing of the New Deal of Franklin D. Roosevelt. Henry "Shylock" Morgenthau was a counsellor of F.D.R. in all of the financial matters, including taxation already before the presidency of F.D.R. Later he was rewarded by installment in the office of US Secretary of the Treasury. The New Deal was not a crime itself, but continuation of F.F.A. '34 was it, because there was no more need to collect extra taxation, when the Great Depression was over in the late 1930s.

I have mentioned many times that the skill to handload subsonic or transsonic rifle cartridges may be more useful to those shooters who are unable to acquire, possess or use the suppressor or silencer than to us lucky devils, who can buy a "sordino" more easity than a pack of cicarettes or bottle of low-proof beer. Every American gun-owner is, however, still under obligation to contact his Senator or other influential politician, and tell to him or her a message: "Revoke Lex Morgenthau and F.F.A. '68 !"

It is a funny trick to guide some supporter of silencer-ban to the shooting range, and shoot... not him or her, but... some shots with silencer / suppressor mounted with full-power cartridges, and then some shots without suppressor, using subsonic handloads, and then ask from the listener: "Which shots sounded to be less noisy ? Where is the common sense of Lex Morgenthau, which is so easy to evade by skilful handloading ??"

There was a partial ban of suppressors even in Finland since 1983 until 1993 by the Game Act: Use of the suppressor for game hunting was forbidden. That ban was, however, shown to be ridiculous by shooting trials like this, described above, and it was revoked silently by the general renovation of Finnish Game Legislature in 1st August 1993.</span>




 
Re: reasons for a suppressor

I have owned several submachineguns over the years in being friends with Norrel Arms and refinishing in its shop in my spare time, owning-macs, powder or rpbs, all calibers, uzi, 10/22 full auto integral suppressed, mp5-k-with gem can) and always favored a suppressor to avoid people worrying or coming when they hear fully auto weapon fire. One time I was shooting an uzi bare, and I had a leo undercover officer who lives in the area there within fifteen minutes. with my mp5-k I always used a gemtech I bought for it as it just preserves your privacy in targetshooting. i do now own any at present but would always have both if your shooting range [in my case into a side of a bluff on a friend's land] is near others.

robert
 
Re: reasons for a suppressor

I agree, shooting machineguns suppressed is the way to go. If not only for keeping prying eyes away. I hate an audience and prefer to train in private.
 
Re: reasons for a suppressor

why not?Its more enjoyable too shoot and you can improve your accuracy because it supposed to mitigate recoil better and you flinch casue of the big blast.And it's fun as heck.
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Re: reasons for a suppressor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pat M</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Washinton state, nice 308 can $600 + $200stamp + $tax, and our state laws are funny here as most say you can't used it even if your cleared for one (? on prizate property only?, and no hunting with one)). Yes i have shot 223 and 22 cans, and i would love to have them on all my rifles. I'm sure a group LE buy on electronic muffs at local gunshop is affordable.

</div></div>

Yeah, that's retarded that we can't shoot through suppressors in our state...

Also, we all have mufflers on our cars. They help reduce unwanted noise. Suppressors are the same thing. Mufflers for firearms. Even with earpro, I still lose a little hearing through bone conduction and the occasional loose plug/muff. I wish suppressors were more common so that I don't lose any more hearing.
 
Re: reasons for a suppressor


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">reasons for a suppressor?</div></div>

Cause I can.

At least you called it a suppressor and not a "Silencer".
 
Re: reasons for a suppressor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pat M</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Washinton state, nice 308 can $600 + $200stamp + $tax, and our state laws are funny here as most say you can't used it even if your cleared for one (? on prizate property only?, and no hunting with one)). Yes i have shot 223 and 22 cans, and i would love to have them on all my rifles. I'm sure a group LE buy on electronic muffs at local gunshop is affordable.

</div></div>
Logic of that argument is flawed severely. An "affordable" group buy on E-muffs is hardly an answer.
85% of electronic muffs don't work for crap for a civilian shooter. Of the remaining quality sets that actually work AND can be used in conjunction with other PPE in the line of duty are not in the least bit inexpensive.
Most arguments that I've seen around the board that try to negate the advantages of cans are about as effective as arguing that you don't need to have napkins @ the table because you can wipe your mouth on your sleeve.
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Re: reasons for a suppressor

It's polite. It does not bother people. Nothing like trying to shoot some groups and a shooter is blasting away with a 308 doing mag dumps out of his FNFAL the blast does bother me.. a nice cyclone on that puppy would calm it down.. Damn it's still loud with the suppressor not even close to hearing safe but no blast. Sub sonic is a different story... :) a 308 whisper is in my future!
 
Re: reasons for a suppressor

Not to keep ressurecting a dated post, but there is a rather significant tactical advantage for suppressor use in a military (and perhaps LE) setting: it not only minimizes the aural signature of the weapon, but it also makes it largely non-directional. In other words, it makes it much more difficult to determine the position of the shooter. Part of this is simply due to the noise suppression, but the dissapation of the remaining signature is also improved to the point where those downrange know <span style="font-style: italic">what</span> has happened, but not necessarily <span style="font-style: italic">where</span> it came from.

Does that matter out on the firing line in a civilian setting? No, but depending upon your "line of work" with the rifle, it can nevertheless be a relevant point.

Chief
 
Re: reasons for a suppressor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pat M</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Same reason for a .50 or full auto,,,,, Or maybe all the states should be like New York, Washington and let's not forget California </div></div>

Dont forget New Jersey
 
Re: reasons for a suppressor

LE SWAT needs them on every rifle. I say this because if they hear a shot at a SWAT call-out, they know it's from the subjects and that changes the response. It also allows a SWAT member to eliminate a threat without alerting additional subjects so they start killing hostages.

Stay safe.
 
Re: reasons for a suppressor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sniper7.62</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LE SWAT needs them on every rifle. I say this because if they hear a shot at a SWAT call-out, they know it's from the subjects and that changes the response. It also allows a SWAT member to eliminate a threat without alerting additional subjects so they start killing hostages.

Stay safe.</div></div>
Um, no it still alerts people. Suppressors aren't silent, you can still hear plenty of noise. It does cut down on it and will help members from suffering plenty of ear ringing if shots have to be fired inside a building. I couldn't imagine not having any hearing protection (have to hear other members) and having to shoot in a confined hallway or such. This would be the largest reason behind suppressors.
 
Re: reasons for a suppressor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sniper7.62</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It also allows a SWAT member to eliminate a threat without alerting additional subjects so they start killing hostages.</div></div>

Someone has been watching way too many movies.
 
Re: reasons for a suppressor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">chicks dig it...
Keith</div></div>
What Keith said
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nrode</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sniper7.62</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It also allows a SWAT member to eliminate a threat without alerting additional subjects so they start killing hostages.</div></div>
Someone has been watching way too many movies.</div></div>
+1
grin.gif
I'lll just assume that Sniper7.62 has never fired nor heard a suppressor...which translates to STAY IN YOUR LANE!
 
Re: reasons for a suppressor

what? You will have to speak up....Can you repeat the question? I can't hear you.......I seldom use supressors on my Big Blocks either, but it's the blower whine that is deaffening........what did you say ?
 
Re: reasons for a suppressor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I certainly wish we could get them in MN. LE has deemed no way. <span style="font-style: italic">You can purchase the permit and Fed stamp...but almost everyone of them has been denied.</span> </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Form a trust. No CLEO signoff required. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You need to write him a letter and inform him that you are not asking for his persmission to own a supressor only asking that he sign a form saying that your not wanted locally for any crimes. Then inform him that there are other legal ways for you to obtrain said supressor which will not include him in the loop.

LEO needs to understand WE ARE NOT ASKING THEMN FOR PERMISSION!!!!</div></div>

?
MN is a no-go state anyways. It's not the LEO's, it's your laws.
 
Re: reasons for a suppressor

On cost issue: I have half a dozen .22 suppressors of which the Ase-Utra .22 is the most expensivice costing 65 Euros or about 100 USD including 22% VAT. The rest is between 20-40 Euros each. I collect them because I can and they cost only pocket change.

The cans are epxensive in the USA because of the laws and regulations that make manufacture and sales of them expensive. Of course some cans use sphisticated materials and manufacturing methods but basically low sales volumes force companies to charge heavy prices and the 200 USD ATF TAX makes it easier. Very few would buy a 50 USD suppressor when the tax itself is 200 USD.

If USA would remove the suppressor restrictions on firearms just like they have been removed on car and lawn mover suppressors you would soon have a thriving market for rifle suppressors in the 100-150 USD price range (plus VAT where applicable). You could actually outsource their manufacture to China if you would want to.

Naturally some people and companies think selling and owning +1000 USD suppressors is much cooler than having their prices reduced by 80% overnight.

I am sorry that I can not buy any US-made pistol suppressors here in Europe.
 
Re: reasons for a suppressor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dazed</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't want to seem stupid or anything because I might be missing a big reason. But what purpose does anyone not in the military or LE have with a silencer, if someone could list some reasons that would be great.</div></div>

If you ask an unthinking question like that, the best answer is to try to justify why a rifle SHOULDN'T have a suppressor. How 'bout it Dazed? Why should your rifle not have a can on it? (regardless of your status)

There have been posted lots of good reasons why a can is a good idea...

 
Re: reasons for a suppressor

Well butter my buns and call me a biscuit, I just like the fact that I can shoot anything I own with a threaded barrel without the hassel of hearing protection or disturbing the neighbors.
 
Re: reasons for a suppressor

Freaking politicians, so damn stupid. If they made the widespread use of suppressors legal everywhere, they'd make so many tax dollars, they'd probably have to increase their wasteful spending by five fold to put this country into a deficit. They could generate a budget surplus overnight.
 
Re: reasons for a suppressor

Oh, and to add, the main reason for me wanting one was actually the recoil reduction first and the sound second. I still have to wear ears at my range per "rules". Can't get out of the suppressor being the ears even when there are no others there. Cool factor really adds in as well. Get plenty of stares, but great to shoot as many rounds as you want and not be sore in the least.
Chad
 
Re: reasons for a suppressor

Cause my hearing is bad enough already and I'm a young guy. And cause chicks can shoot a suppressed weapon without flinching or ear muffs to mess up their hair.

I have good reasons too, but ya'll have covered that.
 
Re: reasons for a suppressor

TA you are ON the money , actually , the Chinese Brno/Cz 22lr bolt action clones , come into New Zealand with a very cheap chinese silencer ,

But it's not that good , even for the $14 USD that it sells for , but at least its available if you want IT .

I have , a number of 22lr cans ,as like you , they are cheap & available .
But as in most things you get what you pay for , the best I have is a Ase Utra rimfire can , but the Parker Hale MM1 , is a good value in NZ , also have a SAK & the can Sako have made for them , the alloy one with the plastic insert , do not know who makes that one , its not bad .

But I actually like the steel jobs the most with all the mounting / dismounting on threaded barrels between guns .

I will have a mate make me up a all SS welded 22 rimfire can soon , like he made for his Father , its very well made , costs about the same as a PH MM1 .

Its 100% SS , baffels are simple just like heaver washers , they are push fit into tube , then plug welded in position , then the end caps are fully welded .
And so the bore is true the drilling of the holes & threading are done after all the welding is completed .

It ends up as a very solid can , that will easily out live the owner .

Later Chris
 
Re: reasons for a suppressor

Thats what is so great about being an american its not about what you need its about what you fu^#*ng want to have. Or maybe i just dont want THEM to hear me.
 
Re: reasons for a suppressor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Emergencynrse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Reasons:

Sniping cats without one worries the neighbors... </div></div>


now thats what im talkin bout
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Re: reasons for a suppressor

EMERGENCYNRS +1

Hes NOT kidding.

We do it down here in SOUTH GA as well...... But...

WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do NOT use a .308 suppressed rifle at a 40 yard distance with a BLACK HILLS 175 load AT NIGHT on a CAT.

The "THUD" is PRETTY DAMN LOUD.... plus.... you have to pick up the pieces of the cat.

Matt (LEO SOUTH GA.)
 
Re: reasons for a suppressor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mm128</div><div class="ubbcode-body">EMERGENCYNRS +1

Hes NOT kidding.

We do it down here in SOUTH GA as well...... But...

WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do NOT use a .308 suppressed rifle at a 40 yard distance with a BLACK HILLS 175 load AT NIGHT on a CAT.

The "THUD" is PRETTY DAMN LOUD.... plus.... you have to pick up the pieces of the cat.

Matt (LEO SOUTH GA.)
</div></div>


Bwwwwaaahhhaaaahhhaahhhaa

I just busted a cat in the back yard with my air rifle, I swore that RWS 45 woke up the whole neighborhood. Gotta get a can, then all I have to do is pick up cat parts. Oh wait, I have to do that anyway.
laugh.gif


Cheers,

Doc
 
Re: reasons for a suppressor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RyanScott</div><div class="ubbcode-body">cause chicks can shoot a suppressed weapon without flinching or ear muffs to mess up their hair. </div></div> This has to be one of the best arguments I've heard so far
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Re: reasons for a suppressor

Rimfire solution = Water Bottle + Electrical Tape. All evidence can be melted into a little petroleum glob. 2 liter might work on a larger caliber but I haven't tried it, yet!
 
Re: reasons for a suppressor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m21black</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LE should use hearing protection, it's cheaper for the tax payers... By the way entry team sounds orwellian to me... What has this country come to Police Officers dressed in black ninja suits, kicking down doors like nazi brown shirts... </div></div>

Excuse me...Mr. Badguy, could you please put these earmuffs on the family that you are holding in the house before we enter to take you out of your meth lab? Thanks. We'll be in in a minute.

Children grow up. When Sally's mom realizes she will never hear Mozart in it's fully glory because the entry team put five shots into daddy do you think she will care that the entry team was wearing ear-pro? Nope. And the settlement from that suit would equip a whole entry team with suppressors.

Did I mention that I put a vicious dog down with my suppressed patrol rifle? If I didn't have the can on it half the neighborhood (who were out to watch Animal Control try to dart this thing) would have gone home with ringing ears.

LE has no more right to silencers than the general public, but the general public should be allowed freer access to them. Anyone who has spent a day at the range shooting a suppressed .22LR knows that they are a good idea.
 
Re: reasons for a suppressor

HI there,
If I had a silencer on my .22, I could practice inside my bacment and not wake up other people trying to sleep.

have a nice day
Denny