I grew up burning wood also. Remodeled our old farm house 14 years ago and took out the chimneys to be done with wood forever. Stupid mistake. Now I am putting wood stoves back in for the future. I have plenty of wood and land.
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What am I missing here. It's been a long time since I took chemistry.
I had tank size wrong
stream.org
Gas for Me But Not for Thee: Obama to Install Massive Propane Tanks in New England Mansion - The Stream
Former President Barack Obama has ordered three massive propane tanks for his Martha’s Vineyard property as energy prices nationwide continue to surge.
stream.org In a perfect system wherein you are literally only burning CH4 and O2, sure. But your stove isn’t perfect, your combustion isn’t perfect, the “natural gas” is at best maybe 90% CH4. Only in the theoretical does 5 joules in equal 5 joules out. Likewise methane combustion.
Well I suppose I should report to you that you need someone (defiantly not ME!) to perform a sexual encounter on you.
You are obviously a city folk. Cause us country folks often go days if not weeks without power. Longest here was only 5 days. (Or was it 7 days, been so many over the past 40 years, I just don’t remember. Other families have suffered longer, much longer). Can’t imagine how long the folks on Gladway road will have to wait. Of course, they probably will have power available before their homes are (re)built. Not much left after the tornado went through. (Hiroshima level of wreckage)
Of course, we bless the lineman. They work in all kinds of shit when no one in their right mind would even think of going outside. Much less get in a lift truck and get even closer to the source of the lightning. Got our power back on in less than 5 hours the last time, no wait that was last Monday, only took them three hours to get it back on this last Thursday. Monday, they had tornado damage to repair, for half the parish. Those men are good. Really good.
Just so everyone will know. In the 1970’s we tried to heat our little farm house with electricity. The winter heating bill used 25% of our after tax income per winter month. In Louisiana! We purchased a wood stove and paid to have it installed and purchased sufficient wood to heat our home for a winter and paid for everything in savings over electric heat before the First Winter was out.
Getting back to the subject at hand. Nice thing about an old fashioned, pilot light style gas stove. When the electricity is out, I can crank up my stove and cook a great meal. I can also boil water if needed for drinking or heat up water for a decent bath. Try that with an electric stove when the power is gone.
Just ordered a Wolf Range Top for a new build. Propane and High Altitude kit.
Was on the to-do list, but this crap has accelerated my priorities.
Was on the to-do list, but this crap has accelerated my priorities.
Remember when the Obama administration was looking at banning wood burning stoves?
I have a friend who is in the stove business, and the last two years he says has been good, people are buying stoves (both wood and pellet) like there's no tomorrow.
I have a friend who is in the stove business, and the last two years he says has been good, people are buying stoves (both wood and pellet) like there's no tomorrow.
A modern Electric heat pump system for a place like LA or TX and such generally would be about 1/3 of the cost of running electric heat.
My winter heating bill dropped drastically after I got a new AC system installed that had the heat pump option added on.
Most heat pumps work efficiently down to 27-32 degrees then the heating capability rapidly falls off. There are newer models that work well below freezing but are the minority.
I would not want to be stuck in a major winter storm like what just happened in Buffalo NY with just a heat pump. But apparently their governor and her cherry picked commission of experts know better. Seems their plan is to kill people with absurdity.
NY plans to change the way you heat your home. Gas, oil, propane furnaces to be phased out
The state Climate Action Council today approved policies to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
www.syracuse.com Most heat pumps work efficiently down to 27-32 degrees then the heating capability rapidly falls off. There are newer models that work well below freezing but are the minority.
I would not want to be stuck in a major winter storm like what just happened in Buffalo NY with just a heat pump. But apparently their governor and her cherry picked commission of experts know better. Seems their plan is to kill people with absurdity.
NY plans to change the way you heat your home. Gas, oil, propane furnaces to be phased out
The state Climate Action Council today approved policies to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
Pick your system based on where you live.
The post I replied to said the person lived in LA
So if you live in places like LA, most of TX and many other southern states, a heat pump will do wonders for your electricity bill since only a very small fraction of the winter will you be needing to kick on the heat coils.
Even in places like TX, nobody intelligent installs just a heat pump that has no other backup.
How the systems normally work is it is built in as part of your AC system and essentially runs your AC system in reverse for most of the winter, then when it gets too cold for it to work, it will automatically kick in the heating coils in the air handler.
Well, electricity is the most efficient way to cook food or heat a home. No wasted energy unlike with gas. The main problem with electricity is the cost of it. I see talks of power outages being an issue which is true if you're living in some natural disaster ridden area, but the truth is the average home is never gonna experience a power outage in excess of an hour. I recently bought an electric kettle and it is by far the fastest way I've ever boiled water. I don't like using a microwave to boil water because I'm not ghetto and I don't like the stovetop because I hate racing to the kitchen to shut up the whistling kettle. Electric appliances are awesome, but I get everyone's point here that they don't like something forced upon them. I'm a Libertarian remember.
We have furnaces now that are 98% efficient…. And run maybe 7-8 amps…. Now let’s take your 20kw 100% efficient electric heat…. That’s around 80-85 Amps when it’s running…. No thanks I’ll take my gas furnace.
Laugh now all you want.
You assume you'll be allowed to continue having gas delivered cheaply and easily to you.
A couple years back some of the folks that thought they'd get to laugh at the electric folks during blackouts in winter because they had gas found out the hard way that sometimes gas might not always be showing up in a pipe to your house either.
Do you really think the Global Elites are just going to be happy to let you have all cheap abundant gas you want so you can laugh at them?
Wonder what will be the cocktail party talk about the new kitchens without a Viking or Garland in it will sound? Having built homes for some of the wealthiest people in our country, I cannot recall a single one that was not a gas range.
Well If we r gonna think that way…. What makes you think your masters will let u continue to have electricity?
Yes you're right. Heat pumps can still be good in the shoulder seasons up north when you also have a backup gas or oil furnace for actual winter. Definitely the best choice in the south where it is milder.
I mainly wanted to comment so I could post the NY ridiculousness where you will no longer be able to pick your system based on where you live.
That's just the point I was making.
The availability of Energy dictates in large amount what you are able to do.
Much of what we think of as "freedom" revolves around energy being readily available and affordable.
Why bother as much with jackboots doing the oppression when you can start making energy in all it's commonly used forms either scarce, or incredibly expensive or both and take away tons of freedom and individual determination from the serfs without nearly as much trouble?
You want to go somewhere? Sure, you are free to go, but the electricity to charge your electric car is in short supply, hugely expensive and rationed. The Gasoline to power your gasoline car is in short supply, rationed and hugely expensive. That Natural Gas stuff is in short supply, rationed and the price keeps going up. Well you could always walk as far as that will get you, or you can ride the official bus to your state assigned job using your daily bus pass that's only good for the route you are supposed to be taking. There is always bike riding too, if you have tires for it.
You'll notice CA and other states now want to tax folks that have solar and thought they were going to get a great deal selling energy back at high prices...
The New Feudal World Order is going to be a lot harsher to live in than most understand. For a quick idea take a look this winter at Europe.
I see we aren't paying attention.
Some of you here are missing the big picture.
None of us are going to have ANY energy unless THEY say so.
Its all part of the plan.
Within the next 4 years, their plan is to control ALL:
Food
Energy
Medicine/Medical
Any and all comodities
Some of you here are missing the big picture.
None of us are going to have ANY energy unless THEY say so.
Its all part of the plan.
Within the next 4 years, their plan is to control ALL:
Food
Energy
Medicine/Medical
Any and all comodities
And don't forget water, most folks don't think about water but my guess says just wait and you'll see water suddenly becoming something that gets used as a weapon of control as well.
South east saw rolling blackouts for the 1st time ever? just before Christmas all because the climate overlords won't let the power companies supplement increased demand with fossil fuel sources.
They are going to wring this sponge until everyone is living on top of each other to consolidate resources.
Until all the peons are living in hyper-condensed cities likes rats in a cage.
Clearly spelled out in the plans openly published and being worked on by the UN, and the WEF and most western governments.
Just like in Feudal times.
Only the Ruling Elites get to enjoy nature and their huge private estates.
I've found heat pumps great for cooling terrible for heating. Heat pump will cool my home easily for $110 or so a month and we have 110% summer days, a lot of them. Heating even with natural gas heat ran close to $250, but half of that was electric to run the blower, the actual gas bill was about $125. I've started using just the gas range as it heats better and uses no electricity.
An interesting aside, propane, while more expensive than NG, contains a lot more BTU per unit.
- BTUs One cubic foot of propane = 2,516 BTUs. One cubic foot of natural gas = 1,030 BTUs.
How about we just overthrow the government and start over, then we can cook on any fucking thing we want.
I call bullshit. The same fan motor runs for the cooling as heating. Additionally you are running the compressor and outdoor fan motor.
Unless they are drastically changing your electric rates during winter there's absolutely no way to get your numbers to work.
Unless they are drastically changing your electric rates during winter there's absolutely no way to get your numbers to work.
NO bullshit, reading off the bills.
But if you think about it, it costs about the same to run the fan and compressor, when you add in the gas, which I use almost none of in the warm months, its adds up pretty close.
Exactly why T Boone Pickens was buying it up.
So you live in the city ?
I have been in the HVAC business for a very long time.
You can not use more electricity to run your gas furnace alone compared to running the same gas furnace (indoor air mover) and the condensing unit. It's not fucking possible.
Don't want to believe me. Go look at the data plate on your outdoor unit. It'll have your compressor amperage and fan motor amperage on it. Amperage draw is what you pay for on your electric bill.
Furnace fan motor (blower/air mover) = 6 amps
Compressor= 12 amps
Outdoor fan= 3 amps
Heating cycle= 6 amps
Cooling cycle = 6 + 12 + 3 = 21 total amps.
You can not use more electricity to run your gas furnace alone compared to running the same gas furnace (indoor air mover) and the condensing unit. It's not fucking possible.
Even if you have a power vented furnace. The amperage on the power venter is minimal and doesn't come close to the amperage of your compressor and outdoor fan.
Don't want to believe me. Go look at the data plate on your outdoor unit. It'll have your compressor amperage and fan motor amperage on it. Amperage draw is what you pay for on your electric bill.
Furnace fan motor (blower/air mover) = 6 amps
Compressor= 12 amps
Outdoor fan= 3 amps
Heating cycle= 6 amps
Cooling cycle = 6 + 12 + 3 = 21 total amps.
All I can do is repeat what the bills say.
Well, electricity is the most efficient way to cook food or heat a home. No wasted energy unlike with gas. The main problem with electricity is the cost of it. I see talks of power outages being an issue which is true if you're living in some natural disaster ridden area, but the truth is the average home is never gonna experience a power outage in excess of an hour. I recently bought an electric kettle and it is by far the fastest way I've ever boiled water. I don't like using a microwave to boil water because I'm not ghetto and I don't like the stovetop because I hate racing to the kitchen to shut up the whistling kettle. Electric appliances are awesome, but I get everyone's point here that they don't like something forced upon them. I'm a Libertarian remember.
I don't think I've ever seen/read, that electricity is more efficient, than gas, as a source of cooking, or home heat.
Pure exergetic waste.
Climate zones and pricing for each are the variables that change the "efficiency". In quotes because the term is used in different ways.
In my climate zone and kilowatt hr versus cubic foot of gas. Electricity is less expensive down to 40 degrees than natural gas for heating (heat pump). I say natural gas because propane prices are too unstable to compare to electric. For cooking I have never seen a comparison. Without comparison between cubic feet of gas to kilowatt hr to boil a gallon of water in a price zone it would be difficult to say which is more efficient. I would say that the price difference is negligible and choose which one you prefer to use.
In my climate zone and kilowatt hr versus cubic foot of gas. Electricity is less expensive down to 40 degrees than natural gas for heating (heat pump). I say natural gas because propane prices are too unstable to compare to electric. For cooking I have never seen a comparison. Without comparison between cubic feet of gas to kilowatt hr to boil a gallon of water in a price zone it would be difficult to say which is more efficient. I would say that the price difference is negligible and choose which one you prefer to use.
My wife asked if wanted to consider gas when doing a recent remodel. I lived in a house that had a gas range. It was nice to cook with, but sucked to clean. Especially right after cooking, had to wait for the burners to cool off. I told her we should stick with electric. If the power goes out, I'll go cook on the gas grille...
Get an amp meter and remove the cover on your panel box. Clamp the meter on a main wire before your main breaker and turn everything off except for the gas furnace and a/c. Set your thermostat to heat and turn up the temperature until it runs. Write down the amperage reading. Now turn your thermostat to off and let the system shut down. Then set the thermostat to cooling and turn the temperature down until the system runs and is cooling. Write down the amperage reading.
Unless your provider is drastically changing the pricing between winter and summer it's not possible.
Unless your provider is drastically changing the pricing between winter and summer it's not possible.
Some of you have your tinfoil hats screwed on a little too tight. The natural gas has to be burned. It's either burned in your home for heat, at the power plant for electricity or just burned in the air for no use at all.
But it has to be burned.
It's cheap because it's a waste product. We still have so much excess of it in the US that a giant percentage is still just flared for no use.
That's because the cost of transport is higher than the cost of the gas because there's so much of it we can't use enough to make it expensive enough to transport long or difficult distances.
Europe has very little of it. Natural gas is not a worldwide commodity. It's very regional because it's relatively difficult to transport. You can take excess gas here and send it to Europe but the cost of doing so wildly exceeds the cost of the price of natural gas in Europe even if the US gas was free.
LNG only works where gas is so scarce that its really expensive. And then other types of energy generally make more sense.
But it has to be burned.
It's cheap because it's a waste product. We still have so much excess of it in the US that a giant percentage is still just flared for no use.
That's because the cost of transport is higher than the cost of the gas because there's so much of it we can't use enough to make it expensive enough to transport long or difficult distances.
Europe has very little of it. Natural gas is not a worldwide commodity. It's very regional because it's relatively difficult to transport. You can take excess gas here and send it to Europe but the cost of doing so wildly exceeds the cost of the price of natural gas in Europe even if the US gas was free.
LNG only works where gas is so scarce that its really expensive. And then other types of energy generally make more sense.
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