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Range Report Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trevor300wsm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ive been using FTE w/JBM using Density Altitude. I downloaded the new Shooter and turned on the density altitude setting. Inputting the same data into both programs, using the G7 in FTE and Litz's in Shooter, I come up with some significant variations. Using my 6.5 load with the Berger 130's, (BC of .552) at 2,902fps, it shows a .89 mil difference in drop at 750yds (4.01mil FTE & 4.9mil Shooter). Now, I'm not sure which one to go by, and more so, I'm not sure why they are showing different values.

The BC in FTE for the 130 Berger VLD shows .552......where is the BC listed at in Shooter.

Any opinions? </div></div>
Make sure all data is exactly the same if you're trying to compare apples to apples. Make sure your correction factor is 1.0. Make sure your zero height/offsets are 0 and not confused with sight height/offset. Make sure spin drift/coriolis are disabled if also disabled in your other application.

The BC is hidden from your view when you're using bullets labeled (Litz).
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: seankndy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Anri</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I noticed Shooter on iOS shows different gyroscopic stability factor than Shooter/Android and JBM Ballistic. Conditions/paramaters are the same. For Scenar 6.5mm 139gr, 1005hPa, +4C, 840 m/s stability factor should be 1.42, iOS version shows 1.47. It is supposely the reason why windage correction differs too between Android and iOS versions. </div></div>
I'm trying to reproduce this, but can't. Can you let me know if you're entering an altitude? Station pressure? What twist rate? </div></div>
Twist rate is 8.66". No, I am not using altitude. Only absolute pressure. It seems iOS version does`n count +4C temperature. It is 1.47 with +15C, with +4C it should be 1.42.
I just noticed after Shooter/Android upgrade Android shows also constantly 1.43, no matter +4C or +15C.
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

I checked Shooter on iOS against JBM online. AMAX 178gr, 29.92inHg absolute (station) pressure, 86% RH, wind 10mph coming from 3 o'clock (=270 degrees for JBM). Distance 850m. Spin drift enabled, Coriolis disabled. Entered stepped G7 BC's into Shooter myself from Bryan's book. Computed for barrel twist 1:11" and MV 2650fps (Shooter's zero weather 89F, 55% RH, 27.42inHg station pressure - couldn't accommodate for it in JBM Trajectory. Could affect the difference).

<table border="1">
<tr>
<td>850m, 41F</td><th>Drop, in</th><th>Drop, mRad</th><th>Drift, mRad</th>
</tr>
<tr><td>JBM</td> <td>331.5</td> <td>9.9</td> <td>2.6</td></tr>
<tr><td>Shooter</td><td>334.2</td> <td>10.0</td> <td>2.6</td></tr>
<tr><td>Shooter vs JBM</td><td>2.7</td></tr>
</table>

<table border="1">
<tr>
<td>850m, 59F</td><th>Drop, in</th><th>Drop, mRad</th><th>Drift, mRad</th>
</tr>
<tr><td>JBM</td> <td>323.6</td> <td>9.7</td> <td>2.5</td></tr>
<tr><td>Shooter</td><td>326.2</td> <td>9.7</td> <td>2.5</td></tr>
<tr><td>Shooter vs JBM</td><td>2.6</td></tr>
</table>

Now for perhaps more stressing (1200m rather than 850m), and more useful test (against Ballistics FTE that implements JBM engine on iPhone):
<table border="1">
<tr>
<td>1200m, 41F</td><th>Drop, in</th><th>Drop, mRad</th><th>Drift, mRad</th>
</tr>
<tr><td>JBM</td> <td>969.3</td> <td>20.5</td> <td>4.2</td></tr>
<tr><td>Shooter</td><td>974.8</td> <td>20.6</td> <td>4.2</td></tr>
<tr><td>Shooter vs JBM</td><td>5.5</td> <td></td> <td></td></tr>
<tr><td>FTE</td> <td>975.4</td> <td>20.6</td> <td>4.2</td></tr>
<tr><td>Shooter vs FTE</td> <td>0.6</td><td>0.0</td><td>0.0</td></tr>
</table>

<table border="1">
<tr>
<td>1200m, 59F</td><th>Drop, in</th><th>Drop, mRad</th><th>Drift, mRad</th>
</tr>
<tr><td>JBM</td> <td>934.9</td> <td>19.8</td> <td>4.0</td></tr>
<tr><td>Shooter</td><td>939.9</td> <td>19.9</td> <td>4.0</td></tr>
<tr><td>Shooter vs JBM</td><td>5.0</td></tr>
<tr><td>FTE</td> <td>940.4</td> <td>19.9</td><td>4.0</td></tr>
<tr><td>Shooter vs FTE</td><td>0.5</td><td>0.0</td><td>0.0</td></tr>
</table>

I hope not to lose my sleep over this difference.
smile.gif
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

I was getting some funky windage numbers with the solution wheels.

1000 yds
zero wind gives me .1 mil LEFT.
1 mph = 0.1 LEFT
2 mph = 0.0
3 MPH = 0.1 RIGHT and so on in relative succession up to 10 mph.

I figure I'm putting "garbage in" some-freakin-where...I just need to locate it so I can pull it out.

Got the blank graph too. Glad there's an update.
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mutt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was getting some funky windage numbers with the solution wheels.

1000 yds
zero wind gives me .1 mil LEFT.
1 mph = 0.1 LEFT
2 mph = 0.0
3 MPH = 0.1 RIGHT and so on in relative succession up to 10 mph.

I figure I'm putting "garbage in" some-freakin-where...I just need to locate it so I can pull it out.

Got the blank graph too. Glad there's an update.
</div></div>

Turn spin drift and coriolis off and your numbers may zero. Some of the problems you guys are seeing may be from different zero weather or not
using zero weather in one and using it in the other.
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bigwheeler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Some of the problems you guys are seeing may be from different zero weather or not using zero weather in one and using it in the other.</div></div>
+1

JBM Trajectory doesn't allow for zero weather (I didn't bother going to JBM Data Cards). Comparison with FTE (JBM on iPhone) demonstrates that the two (FTE and Shooter) are within 1/2 inch from each other at 1200m for 308 Win 178gr bullet. Sounds close enough to me.
smile.gif
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Anri</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, I see "2x" button, but scaled up picture is terrible
smile.gif

Any case it is better than nothing. </div></div>
An iPad version will be included in the coming update.

You will *not* have to buy another version to get it. It is built-in.

IMG_0036.PNG

 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Anri</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: seankndy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Anri</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I noticed Shooter on iOS shows different gyroscopic stability factor than Shooter/Android and JBM Ballistic. Conditions/paramaters are the same. For Scenar 6.5mm 139gr, 1005hPa, +4C, 840 m/s stability factor should be 1.42, iOS version shows 1.47. It is supposely the reason why windage correction differs too between Android and iOS versions. </div></div>
I'm trying to reproduce this, but can't. Can you let me know if you're entering an altitude? Station pressure? What twist rate? </div></div>
Twist rate is 8.66". No, I am not using altitude. Only absolute pressure. It seems iOS version does`n count +4C temperature. It is 1.47 with +15C, with +4C it should be 1.42.
I just noticed after Shooter/Android upgrade Android shows also constantly 1.43, no matter +4C or +15C. </div></div>
Is your "Other Unit" set to Imperial?
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

Metric. Everywhere is metric.
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Anri</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It seems iOS version doesn't count +4C temperature. It is 1.47 with +15C, with +4C it should be 1.42.
I just noticed after Shooter/Android upgrade Android shows also constantly 1.43, no matter +4C or +15C.</div></div>
Can't tell about Android. But as you can see in my previous posting - I tested Shooter on iOS 5.0.1, and it shows 0.3 mRad difference in drop at 850m when temperature changes from +4C (actually +5C) to +15C (or from 41F to 59F).
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: seankndy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Anri</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: seankndy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Anri</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I noticed Shooter on iOS shows different gyroscopic stability factor than Shooter/Android and JBM Ballistic. Conditions/paramaters are the same. For Scenar 6.5mm 139gr, 1005hPa, +4C, 840 m/s stability factor should be 1.42, iOS version shows 1.47. It is supposely the reason why windage correction differs too between Android and iOS versions. </div></div>
I'm trying to reproduce this, but can't. Can you let me know if you're entering an altitude? Station pressure? What twist rate? </div></div>
Twist rate is 8.66". No, I am not using altitude. Only absolute pressure. It seems iOS version does`n count +4C temperature. It is 1.47 with +15C, with +4C it should be 1.42.
I just noticed after Shooter/Android upgrade Android shows also constantly 1.43, no matter +4C or +15C. </div></div>
Is your "Other Unit" set to Imperial? </div></div>
Looks like I figured it out. I was using DensityAltitude input mode. I disabled it, entering now pressure, temp,hum... Stability factor is updating now correctly when temperature changes.
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

Will upcoming ipad version contain Head-Up-display like iphone version? This feature is really cool. Easy to learn traectory data, modeling several shooting conditions with wind direction and speed...
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mouse07410</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did anybody manage to get <span style="font-style: italic">Graph</span> option to work (iTouch 4 running iOS 5.0.1)?

<span style="font-style: italic">Graph</span> just gives me a white (blank) screen. <span style="font-style: italic">Table</span> and <span style="font-style: italic">Solution</span> both work beautifully. </div></div>

Me too.
I believe it's patched up in the next update, though.


<span style="text-decoration: underline">ETA: Woops! Already answered. Sorry.</span>
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

Anri,

Why not use the DA input? What's the advantage of the way your doing it?
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trevor300wsm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anri,

Why not use the DA input? What's the advantage of the way your doing it? </div></div>
Usually I am using DA. One number without entering many combinations of pressure, temperature, humidity. With Kestrel it is very easy. I have a DA tables too as backup, if phone is low on power.
I was just trying to understand why bullet stability factor is constant with DA -283m, +4C or +15C. It was a bit stupid from my side because DA -283m is not possible with +15C. I changed DA to zero, calculated stability factor changes too. Computations are without bugs. I just want to express my sorry to Sean for false alarms
smile.gif
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

Sean, I'm tired of waiting!
grin.gif


What is Apple doing with your update - performing colonoscopy on it?
grin.gif


Seriously, Happy Holidays! You released a great product!
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

is there a muzzle velocity input on this app to accommodate custom loads?
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mouse07410</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sean, I'm tired of waiting!
grin.gif


What is Apple doing with your update - performing colonoscopy on it?
grin.gif


Seriously, Happy Holidays! You released a great product! </div></div>
I think so. Hopefully they didn't find a polyp.
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

I notice the .264 Norma 130gr Golden Target is missing from the bullet list.

Other than that minor gripe, a very nice product!
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: seankndy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mouse07410</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sean, I'm tired of waiting!
grin.gif


What is Apple doing with your update - performing colonoscopy on it?
grin.gif


Seriously, Happy Holidays! You released a great product! </div></div>
I think so. Hopefully they didn't find a polyp.</div></div>
Yeah...

Sean, I worry. Is it possible to politely ask Apple (whoever's responsible there) what seems to be the problem that delays the release of this update to the Apple Store?
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mouse07410</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: seankndy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mouse07410</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sean, I'm tired of waiting!
grin.gif


What is Apple doing with your update - performing colonoscopy on it?
grin.gif


Seriously, Happy Holidays! You released a great product! </div></div>
I think so. Hopefully they didn't find a polyp.</div></div>
Yeah...

Sean, I worry. Is it possible to politely ask Apple (whoever's responsible there) what seems to be the problem that delays the release of this update to the Apple Store? </div></div>

I can hear Apples responses; Steve died remember? We just had a Holiday.
We're having another holiday soon. But maybe the real reason, There are over
1 million apps out there.
grin.gif
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

Update is finally available.
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

Graphs and Velocity Calibration are working fine. inputting a bc lower than .1 is
now working as well.
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: seankndy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Update is finally available.
</div></div>
Finally! Thank God. Graph works fine now.

Sean, a suggestion for enhancement. It looks that the Graph is aimed at comparison only within one caliber. It does not prevent me from defining ammo in another caliber for comparison - but then it saves it into the original caliber/firearm. Would it be possible to expand comparison graph across multiple ammo <span style="text-decoration: underline">and</span> calibers? Because for me it is very useful to compare capabilities/performance of different rounds <span style="text-decoration: underline">in different calibers</span> (e.g., 308 Win, 260 Rem, 338 LM).
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

Used the sync function to store my data offsite and just used the email function
to email a graph to myself. Drops into excel just fine too. Nice feature.
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

Sean

If you have Shooter on your Droid and you switch to an Apple I-phone 4G will need to purchase another Shooter App?
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

What would be the chance of making a PC version of this? Where you could set up your program to ones own liking. Input data and then load into your Iphone, Ipad etc?
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PJAIRFIRE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sean

If you have Shooter on your Droid and you switch to an Apple I-phone 4G will need to purchase another Shooter App? </div></div>

Use Ballistic: Field Tactical Edition.

http://ballistic.zdziarski.com
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PJAIRFIRE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sean

If you have Shooter on your Droid and you switch to an Apple I-phone 4G will need to purchase another Shooter App? </div></div>

Use Ballistic: Field Tactical Edition.

http://ballistic.zdziarski.com
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Max Owner</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What would be the chance of making a PC version of this? Where you could set up your program to ones own liking. Input data and then load into your Iphone, Ipad etc? </div></div>
You can already load data using your PC, then sync to your phone. I believe Shooter is the only calculator allowing this.

http://manage.shooterapp.net
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PJAIRFIRE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sean

If you have Shooter on your Droid and you switch to an Apple I-phone 4G will need to purchase another Shooter App? </div></div>
Yes, the app is not the same and must be purchased through the App Store.
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: normbal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Use Ballistic: Field Tactical Edition.</div></div>
I wouldn't recommend it.
wink.gif
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

Thanks Sean.

Ive used the Shooter App on the Droid since it came out. I have yet to find any issues. It tracks as long as my ammo is consistant. No need to switch to another program.
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

How does shooter compare to BulletFlight? I have BF and like it but would consider switching.
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

It does DA, bullet flight doesn't at this point. It's also cheaper, a lot cheaper. I also
have FTE , a shooting partner uses BF. I like Shooter better than the both of them.
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bigwheeler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It does DA, bullet flight doesn't at this point. It's also cheaper, a lot cheaper. I also
have FTE , a shooting partner uses BF. I like Shooter better than the both of them. </div></div>

Alright so I read the directions now I'm more confused.

I might buy it just to compare the two.
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

haha, that's why DA is so handy. Don't really see what your question is though?
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bigwheeler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">haha, that's why DA is so handy. Don't really see what your question is though? </div></div>

Oops, my bad. I didn't really ask a question. I had to read it 10 times before I figured it out.
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OBXLongRange</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How does shooter compare to BulletFlight? I have BF and like it but would consider switching.</div></div>
For me they're complementary. I use both, and intend to keep both.

Bullet Flight is easier and quicker to set up. It is unit-agnostic: I can enter distance in meters or yards, temperature in F or C, etc - without having to change settings and "switch" from one to the other. Simple, straightforward and quick.

Shooter has a lot of elaborate features. For one, its range card (trajectory) is more pleasant to look at than the range card from BF.

Both appear to be well-supported.

They tend to diverge by 0.1 mRad or so - I don't know which one is more accurate.
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

I had FTE and have now downloaded Shooter. I do have a question tho. Can someone please explain the difference between Sight Height & Sight Offset? I have always used the center of optic to center of bore measurement as the sight height. Is that correct? if so, what is sight offset referring too?

Thanks, David M
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

Sight offset is miss-alignment horizontally with the bore. Ak mounts, aimpoint and laser mounts are sometimes offset as would be a camera mount.
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

This app/program is working great. I never really liked FTE but didn't have much choice in the past. I was glad when Shooter became available in iOS.

Sean, have you thought about adding a Finger-controlled graphical look-angle dial in the solution page so the user could quickly adjust varying look angles? It would be helpful to quickly change the look angle when working up a dope card for some of the matches here is Arizona.

Thanks
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

has anyone had luck with isnipe or the knights apps? the knights seems to be fast. i like the interface. what about the isnipe range estimator using the camera?
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

Love Isnipe. Haven't used the range estimator part as I shoot at known distances.

Bullet Flight seems to complicated and regret spending the $30 on it.
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

I've had FTE for some time now. With some tinkering I could get it relatively close to my actual dope, I could never get accurate calculations from the app itself. I purchased Shooter earlier today and have had time to compare the app to actual dope from several rifles. Shooter is VERY accurate compared to these actual dopes. I'm looking forward to putting this app to use and seeing how reliable it is.
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SnkBit</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've had FTE for some time now. With some tinkering I could get it relatively close to my actual dope, I could never get accurate calculations from the app itself. I purchased Shooter earlier today and have had time to compare the app to actual dope from several rifles. Shooter is VERY accurate compared to these actual dopes. I'm looking forward to putting this app to use and seeing how reliable it is. </div></div>

I don't understand how, if you are entering the same information into each calculator, you are getting accurate data with one but not the other.
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't understand how, if you are entering the same information into each calculator, you are getting accurate data with one but not the other.</div></div>

You may <span style="font-style: italic">not</span> be entering the same information. The programs have gotten so complicated that it may be difficult to make sure all the parameters the programs are using are identical.

In addition, turning on output options like coriolis and spin drift adds two things: additional parameters which must be set correctly, and calculations of unproven validity.

And then it may be useful to consider these factors: Sources of Inaccuracies in Ballistic Programs

Near the end of that page, it says:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A ballistic program is correctly used to get you close to that first-round hit under conditions you don't normally shoot in...When someone says that their un-tuned ballistic program was "right on at 1000 yards", I generally conclude that if they are telling the truth, they were lucky enough to have offsetting errors.</div></div>

I think that's useful to remember.
 
Re: Shooter Ballistics app now for iPhone

The biggest reason I can see is that Shooter has the Litz G7 BC's readily available where the FTE program does not. I'm sure there are other areas within the FTE where I may be entering inaccurate or incorrect data and the Shooter program must be more forgiving or user friendly in these areas. I also really like the velocity calibration function of Shooter. FTE doesn't have this capability. another plus for Shooter over FTE is price. Shooter is less than one third the cost of FTE.
 
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