Give your opinions and reasons why or why not. If yes how could it be fairly done?
- Thread starter Mark williams
- Start date
simple answer- NO
With Title 9- equal money needs to go to sports of both genders.
So a very profitable sport will subsidize and provide scholarships and equipment to a lot of players.
Good players are already paid via Scholarships...
I am in favor of players getting endorsement deals and being able to work without the NC2A bull shizzle restrictions rules...
I just don't see how you could pay the foot ball players without eliminating / reducing the other male sports on campus with title 9 issues....
With Title 9- equal money needs to go to sports of both genders.
So a very profitable sport will subsidize and provide scholarships and equipment to a lot of players.
Good players are already paid via Scholarships...
I am in favor of players getting endorsement deals and being able to work without the NC2A bull shizzle restrictions rules...
I just don't see how you could pay the foot ball players without eliminating / reducing the other male sports on campus with title 9 issues....
They do get paid-----Free tuition with room & board in exchange for their playing skills. Some tuitions with room and board can easily reach 100k a year.
Most kids would give their eye teeth to get college free, let alone acceptance to some of the finest universities.
I went to Notre Dame which was paid for by my parents.....I was very lucky my parents could do that for me.....how nice if
I was able to catch a football while running record speeds and save my parents that money.
Then law school which I paid for from loans.
Most kids would give their eye teeth to get college free, let alone acceptance to some of the finest universities.
I went to Notre Dame which was paid for by my parents.....I was very lucky my parents could do that for me.....how nice if
I was able to catch a football while running record speeds and save my parents that money.
Then law school which I paid for from loans.
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I'm definitely for players getting endorsement deals if their offered. They should also have rights other students have as well. Being a former division 1 athlete, I know the effort, hard work and time management it takes to be successful in the classroom and the field. I'm on the line with this debate because their are a lot of people getting wealthy while some get crippled. I also understand the opportunities that athletes have that otherwise they woudnt have. With northwestern trying to form a union I thought this would be good discussion. Their are lots of good ideas on the hide in many categories.
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They should definitely be able to work, accept endorsements or simply let someone buy them dinner.
Mark, what did you play and for whom?
Mississippi state baseball.
I think the major money making sports should get paid as they are bringing in millions of dollars to the NCAA and the schools through tv contracts, networks ie the Big 10 Network, video games and merchandise sales. With the revelations recently about the classes the student athletes are taken at UNC and I am sure it is happening at other schools as well I wouldn't consider that an education. I understand why title IX was started but I feel the smaller sports that have no chance of going pro do not need to have conference play and be traveling all over the country for games. Let me clarify I dont mean women's sports I mean all smaller sports track and field, swimming, sports of those nature should be more like club sports where they play in their local area they can travel to by bus. Id even say that baseball doesn't need to travel that far as most MLB scouts are all over the country scouting not only college players but high schoolers as well.
The three big sports that bring in a majority of the money for college athletics and this is only my opinion is Football, and Mens and Women's basketball. College Hockey and baseball you don't really see on TV until the playoffs.
I think with all the lawsuits pending against the NCAA from former and current athletes and Northwestern being allowed to unionize there is going to be changes coming.
Actually what I find funny about this whole thing is the article I read the other day that had the NCAA saying that if the NBA and NFL had minor league systems a lot of the current issues wouldn't be arising. I think it was in response to Northwestern. If I remember correctly back in the beginning of the 2000s when you had the top basketball prospects jumping from high school to the NBA the NCAA got upset because they were losing out on the talent pool from the top prospects so the NBA changed their rules that they had to be one year out of high school.
The three big sports that bring in a majority of the money for college athletics and this is only my opinion is Football, and Mens and Women's basketball. College Hockey and baseball you don't really see on TV until the playoffs.
I think with all the lawsuits pending against the NCAA from former and current athletes and Northwestern being allowed to unionize there is going to be changes coming.
Actually what I find funny about this whole thing is the article I read the other day that had the NCAA saying that if the NBA and NFL had minor league systems a lot of the current issues wouldn't be arising. I think it was in response to Northwestern. If I remember correctly back in the beginning of the 2000s when you had the top basketball prospects jumping from high school to the NBA the NCAA got upset because they were losing out on the talent pool from the top prospects so the NBA changed their rules that they had to be one year out of high school.
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I really don't know what the right conclusion is but I really think that one of the fundamental problems is that the framework used for the analysis is flawed. In my opinion college sports function more as a feeder system to professional sports and effectively has more similarities to a semi-pro system than it does an amateur system.
No. Obviously it's nothing more than my opinion, but my personal feeling is that the absolute foremost goal of colleges/universities is education of its students, not being a farm team or minor league or developmental league for professional sports' teams. If you don't like the deal being offered: scholarship for athletic performance, then don't take it. Perhaps if private schools want to pay, then I probably wouldn't have a logical basis to object, but I am not for state funded schools doing so. Of course only allowing private schools to pay would cause inequity and other problems. Frankly let all professional sports organizations create a developmental league and abolish artificially imposed age limits. If a guy is 18 and good enough to play in the NFL let him sign a contract and play. MLB can draft the kid and send him to the minor leagues, same for NHL, etc. I don't want to stand in anyone's opportunity to earn the living they believe they are entitled to and that the free market is willing to pay, but let the private professional organizations foot that bill and let the tax payer funded schools focus their resources and energies on education.
It's been a long time--more than a decade--but my recollection of the TRUE numbers is that few if any sports programs at non D1 schools are profitable. Once you pay the cost of the scholarships, the construction cost of the stadium and its annual maintenance for labor and materials, salaries of the coaching and training staff, medical/injury related costs, training facilities including weight rooms, saunas, advertisement and promotional costs, travel expenses for air, ground, hotel, food, etc. the programs lose money. There are some D1 programs that do generate a profit, but even many D1 programs need subsidy from the school. Do we eliminate those programs: wrestling, hockey, baseball, soccer, gymnastics, swimming, golf, etc if they don't break even or turn a profit?
My non scholarship co worker has $80K in student loans and he has been paying already for 4-5 years (Northeastern University). If they come out of school debt free Id say they are getting paid.
Now should college cost to the point a young person has to start life behind the financial 8 ball? - that is another topic.
Now should college cost to the point a young person has to start life behind the financial 8 ball? - that is another topic.
No, equal money does not need to go to sports of both genders. Men's sports bring money to the university, women's sports uses money.
"getting paid via scholarships" is not getting paid.
You could EASILY pay football players and not have it affect other sports whatsoever. Do you have any idea how many millions of dollars major D1 football brings to universities?
Some tuition and R&B can easily reach 100K and the players see zero of that. Free rent and free food at one location alone is not even close to being enough.
Let the free market work.
For those of you that think getting a tuition is "getting paid" let me ask you this. Are you willing to live in one spot for 4 years and never leave? Are you willing to eat at one restaurant for every meal for four years and rarely eat anywhere different? Because that is what it's like. A D1 student athlete gets very little in the way of stipend money. Sure, you get a room and a meal card, but what are you going to do for other things?
College Football has got to the point that money COMPLETELY over shadows anything else and there is enough of it to go around without skipping a beat. It used to be parody would allow the little schools to compete with the bigger ones however that's no longer the case by any stretch so why not let the athletes have a little more freedom?
I was a D1 scholarship football player and let me tell you if it wasn't for my parents helping me now and again there's no way my stipend would have supported me exclusively, especially in a bigger market like Southern California, Miami, etc.
College Football has got to the point that money COMPLETELY over shadows anything else and there is enough of it to go around without skipping a beat. It used to be parody would allow the little schools to compete with the bigger ones however that's no longer the case by any stretch so why not let the athletes have a little more freedom?
I was a D1 scholarship football player and let me tell you if it wasn't for my parents helping me now and again there's no way my stipend would have supported me exclusively, especially in a bigger market like Southern California, Miami, etc.
There's no way this is "getting paid". If your friend could not afford to go to that school he shouldn't have went. I don't feel sorry for people with huge student loan debts. I came out of school debt free but I didn't get "paid".
Oh--- never mind, I thought it said "should college athletes get laid"
My friend is paying it off and doesn't bitch about it. I give him credit. What screwed him was he took a degree that was supposed to end up providing him higher pay in a police career but our state eliminated those incentives just after he graduated. He still got into law enforcement but his CJ major just isn't going to return what he thought it would.
I agree about the huge student loan debts. These kids are being sold a bill of goods to provide professors a $100k plus tenure. I think for most they would be better taking up a trade. All we get now from our collegecentric education system is crappy tradesmen and mediocre college grads.
Back on topic. I'm all for the free market determining. Let these talented kids play for the highest bidder. Might as well get it while they can. Chance of most getting the big contract in the pros is slim so they might as well soak the schools. I hope it would get to the point that professors and the endowments take the hit. I'd rather have some 19 year old with millions to spend (and he/she will) in the economy rather than having it locked in a college bank account or tucked away by some stodgy professor.
If your friends not complaining and paying it off, that's a different story. It's the ones that feel entitled that are the PITA.
Everything else I'm in full agreement with you about.
Everything else I'm in full agreement with you about.
Yep works extra details, rooms with three other guys in Boston, still a good worker in his chosen career.
I've been telling him it's his generation, millennials, that are being sold out in the new America. Most will live in moms basement, most will have debts that make home buying impossible, we have an agenda that gives them bicycles as their expected mode of transportation and they will be expected to pay for all the debt the locusts in the baby boomer generation created. All the manufacturing jobs have been eliminated in order to stock Walmart with cheap overseas shit for their use and their career choices are limited. After spending the 60's protesting the boomers went whole hog on consumption in the 70's through 90's, Now that the arsonists are retiring and have saved zero money they want us to pay for their old age.
The Millenials need to start looking at what future is planned for them and decide if they are better served relying on their own talents or if they will be satisfied by govt handouts.
Note - My description of the baby boomers is a generalization. Not all deserve my ire. Many were doing the right thing but those vocal whiners really seem to have become the tick that won't release from its host.
Mike,
As an aside how is tuition taxed? Is it even taxed?
If the NLRB calls tuition pay will that be taxed as income? If the student player is paid is he ready for the tax implications. Be a nice problem to have I guess.
I think that may be somewhat of a motivator for the NLRB (along with unionization of players). I bet uncle wants a cut of that football money and he is pissed he is not getting it from the "non profit" schools. Be concerned about who's hand is trying to get in your pocket and where he wants to spend it. I think it's been shown football is no favorite of the socialist.
As an aside how is tuition taxed? Is it even taxed?
If the NLRB calls tuition pay will that be taxed as income? If the student player is paid is he ready for the tax implications. Be a nice problem to have I guess.
I think that may be somewhat of a motivator for the NLRB (along with unionization of players). I bet uncle wants a cut of that football money and he is pissed he is not getting it from the "non profit" schools. Be concerned about who's hand is trying to get in your pocket and where he wants to spend it. I think it's been shown football is no favorite of the socialist.
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I know many D1 athletes going from high school to college. None of them have any problems accepting full rides to major D1 schools in exchange for playing sports. Most of these kids are going to schools they would have never been accepted to or couldn't afford the tuition/education. I've attended many national signing days, and these kids are so thankful for the opportunities afforded them by major D1 programs.
So yes, spending 4 school years (not full years as these kids do go back home during breaks) eating in the same place at 18-21 years old, while getting a degree from a place tbey could not have gone to is something I would have done all day long. Add the notoriety and popularity among the coeds, well.......not a bad way for a kid to start his adult life.
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Ok let's pay them. Forget the nonsense education requirement. Allow 4 years play eligibility. The nonsense that many in the big schools get an EDUCATION is a myth. ( Went to a NCAA Div I winner school and lived with them in the dorms)Then let them leave, and without skills and education when they don't make the Big Leagues in their respective sports, kick them to the curb. Also as employees their salaries are taxable 
Careful what U wish for...
Careful what U wish for...
Well dariof saying it and doing it are two different things. Again, 7 days a week you cannot go away from the cafeteria because "you" come from a struggling home and mom and dad don't have extra money to give you. How are you going to eat when you want to go away for the weekend with friends? Are you going to rely on your friends paying your way? What about going to movies, dates, etc? Where are you going to get all that extra cash?
No pmclaine, tuition isn't taxed because technically it's not income.
I would support a stipend for athletes, similar to what teaching & resident assistants receive.
You signed, and I'm sure gladly.
Be thankful you were given the skills and perserverance to play at the high level you played at. Be especially thankful your parents didn't have to foot the bill for your education, R & B. Missing some social activities is a small price to pay for what you received. I'm sure you turned out just fine, with an education on top of it.
By the way, who did you play for and what position(s).
Most NFL players end up bankrupt so even if they make it pro they still are not better off.
Of course I'm thankful, especially when I look and see HS friends that didn't have a chance to go to school struggle. But call it pragmatic or call it what you want, but I can still remember being "bored" and looking for stuff (girls) to do. You must admit that no matter how thankful they are 18-21 year old athletic males are not ones to sit around doing nothing for very long, especially on the off-season weekends.
I was a OL at Cal, primarily a pulling guard, long snapper and TE if all the other TE's came down with the plague.
I was a OL at Cal, primarily a pulling guard, long snapper and TE if all the other TE's came down with the plague.
What a great school.......especially since you guys usually have SC's number. Being a N Dame grad, I route for any school that plays USC.
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If the students are so pissed about not being able to afford going out on the weekend why don't they apply for a student loan for a little walking around money.
I think there's a way to do this where we capture both the public good and private good. As Mike said, some of the highpowered D1 football and basketball schools are raking in money far disproportional to the scholarships given to the student athletes. I value a college education very highly and think the one public problem the current system creates is that it's two-tiered: most athletes use their talent to get an education, but a high level elite just want to become a pro and get paid. The problem with the latter goal is that the chances of anyone becoming a pro is minuscule, yet you wouldn't know it by how many kids are spending far more time in the gym than the library. I'm all for gym time, but the glory of being a pro football player dwarfs the glory of being a biochemist in the eyes of most high school and college students. America doesn't need more football players, but we need all the biochemists we can get.
Here's what I'd say: allow them to accept endorsements and sponsorships. But over and above that, programs can have a maximum dividend of what that sport is making at the university, which is divided among the student athletes. However, freshmen get 25% of the dividend, sophomores 50%, juniors 75% and seniors 100%. If a student gets a degree early, then he's entitled to the full boat. This way, we both compensate players for what they're actually bringing in for the school, as well as teach kids that pro sports and a college degree aren't mutually exclusive.
Here's what I'd say: allow them to accept endorsements and sponsorships. But over and above that, programs can have a maximum dividend of what that sport is making at the university, which is divided among the student athletes. However, freshmen get 25% of the dividend, sophomores 50%, juniors 75% and seniors 100%. If a student gets a degree early, then he's entitled to the full boat. This way, we both compensate players for what they're actually bringing in for the school, as well as teach kids that pro sports and a college degree aren't mutually exclusive.
Picture this: you are a big time player in major sports program. Your school is taking in millions of dollars on your sweat and blood. Your coaches make millions. You can't afford to take a date to the movie. You bust your ass for your coaches so they can win and keep making millions. It's your junior season and you have only been placed in courses so you could remain eligible,therefore continuing to make everyone millions. Then you get a serious injury and your playing days are over. If this were you from a very poor family would you wish you could have had a peice of the pie as well?
No. Hell no. Scholarships are a form of payment. They should not get any additional payment. If they want some walking around money, get a job. The education they are supposed to be getting is payment enough.
Baddog, they can't get a job!
Yes Baddog, scholarship athletes CANNOT get a job, part of the NCAA rules.
I can't even believe ajwcotton to get a student loan for walking around money. So you want a young man with no job to take a loan they cannot repay. That exact attitude is part of the reason so many people are deeply in debt. That is a stupid idea.
I can't even believe ajwcotton to get a student loan for walking around money. So you want a young man with no job to take a loan they cannot repay. That exact attitude is part of the reason so many people are deeply in debt. That is a stupid idea.
no job and a loan they can't repay, how is that different than any other student going to college?
I do think that the scholarships should have a clause that they are for 4 years of education and that in the event of injury you keep the scholarships for the duration of your degree.
But I also think that student athletes should not be given a break on academics.
I do think that the scholarships should have a clause that they are for 4 years of education and that in the event of injury you keep the scholarships for the duration of your degree.
But I also think that student athletes should not be given a break on academics.
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I dont think they should be paid.
Unless you make college free for everyone, then pay them all you want.
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Unless you make college free for everyone, then pay them all you want.
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There should be not rule a against paying them. In those sports where the college makes a profit the athletes should receive a generous disability pension if they are injured. Their should be no title 9. People should be free. Yes some athletes receive a valuable education, but some of these athletes make many millions of dollars for their colleges.
If I had a talent worth many millions of dollars, I would want to be paid for it. I would not want some government branch to proclaim that I must give my service for less than it's value. If people think the athletes should play for free then let the colleges give the tickets for free. Let the networks broadcast the games for free, and free from commercials and sponsorship. Enforce that for a while, and the colleges will be begging to pay the athletes.
If I had a talent worth many millions of dollars, I would want to be paid for it. I would not want some government branch to proclaim that I must give my service for less than it's value. If people think the athletes should play for free then let the colleges give the tickets for free. Let the networks broadcast the games for free, and free from commercials and sponsorship. Enforce that for a while, and the colleges will be begging to pay the athletes.
My take is that it's bullshit to allow a cartel (the NCAA) to tell someone (student-athletes) what they should and should not be able to ask for in terms of compensation (scholarships, cash money, BJs from cheerleaders, whatever) in exchange for performing a job (playing sports).
I find it highly offensive that the NCAA continues to push this big lie of amateur athleticism, all while individual schools and leagues pull in attendance numbers, TV deals, and merchandise sales that put a lot of professional sports teams to shame.
The term "slavery" seems a bit extreme, but "exploitation" sounds about right.
I find it highly offensive that the NCAA continues to push this big lie of amateur athleticism, all while individual schools and leagues pull in attendance numbers, TV deals, and merchandise sales that put a lot of professional sports teams to shame.
The term "slavery" seems a bit extreme, but "exploitation" sounds about right.
YES THEY SHOULD.........same wages as any E-3 on active duty....at graduation they should be required to serve 4 yrs.in graditude in the US armed force of their choice.....
No, they are at school. . Go to school or skip the sports in the NCAA and go to the pro level if you want to get paid.
waveslayer said:
Except that's not possible in football or basketball...the two largest revenue-generating collegiate sports.
Giving student-athletes the same stipend that teaching assistants get ($2500-5000 per semester depending on university and the teaching load), with a requirement that the student-athlete maintain the minimum required GPA or funds get cut off, would make this issue go away...but nooooooooooooooooo
Not that my opinion really matters on the subject, but I say yes. However, I think it should be capped at some reasonable sum like $15,000 per year. It should be similar to what a full-time student might make per year if they are working nights/weekends. I'm sure many of the student athletes (college football comes to mind) probably train/practice year round which doesn't allow them the time to have a job. Many college athletes get housing, food, and a free education, so they are already ahead of the game when compared to non-scholarshiped athletes. That being said, I'm sure a HUGE majority of them come from families that cannot afford to give them money for extra stuff.
The kids should have enough pocket money to buy plane tickets back home for the holidays or an engagement ring for their girlfriend or Christmas gifts for their family. They should also pay taxes on whatever they make....perhaps that might help to prepare some of them for the real world at the next level.
It can be done reasonably if everyone at each university was full of integrity.....but that likely is not the case.
The kids should have enough pocket money to buy plane tickets back home for the holidays or an engagement ring for their girlfriend or Christmas gifts for their family. They should also pay taxes on whatever they make....perhaps that might help to prepare some of them for the real world at the next level.
It can be done reasonably if everyone at each university was full of integrity.....but that likely is not the case.
jethro, your opinions matter as much as anyone else. Good post!
As a former scholarship baseball player, I would say no. We had lots of perks that the other students didn't have. I was ecstatic to have half my tuition paid for just for being a decent player. For a short time, I got to live a life that very few people get the opportunity to experience. I saw it as an honor to be a scholarship player. I feel that the experience, tuition money, room and board, and perks were more than fair trade for my abilities as a player. This is such a Pandora's box that they are opening. Only about 10% (pure guess by the way) of the colleges actually MAKE money through athletics. They are the major colleges in the major conferences. Schools like the one I went to wouldn't be able to afford to pay the players. I think this is a terrible precedent that the players at nw are setting.
Found something:
http://sportsologist.com/college-athletics-by-the-number/
Here's another
22 Elite College Sports Programs Turned a Profit in 2010, but Gaps Remain - Athletics - The Chronicle of Higher Education
Found something:
http://sportsologist.com/college-athletics-by-the-number/
Here's another
22 Elite College Sports Programs Turned a Profit in 2010, but Gaps Remain - Athletics - The Chronicle of Higher Education
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To the original question NO However all the money generated should go to reducing the cost and my taxes I paid to put my three kids through college and saved for retirement I did a tour in Nam I vote and I am against a lot of our governments spending
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In Tuscaloosa they get free SUVs as well.....
On a serious note: They get very nice room & board ( furnished better then my house), food, clothes, backpacks, school supplies. They make it where you would never need to leave campus and live like kings...
Get paid on top of that...? Im sure the parents get a little under the table cash already. Just no paper trail. We all know this. NO school is innocent.
On a serious note: They get very nice room & board ( furnished better then my house), food, clothes, backpacks, school supplies. They make it where you would never need to leave campus and live like kings...
Get paid on top of that...? Im sure the parents get a little under the table cash already. Just no paper trail. We all know this. NO school is innocent.
