SHTF LPVO?

Desert Ranger Tycho

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
May 23, 2020
102
60
I've been through the "what's the best lpvo" testing over the last couple years and currently own 3 of the higher end ones. I've yet to try the atacr 1-8.
I currently have two Kahles 1-6 (sm-1 and 3gr,) a S&B dual CC, and the new gen III razor.
I like them all for different reasons. I think my favorite is the Kahles for the 1x and weight, followed by the Schmidt, then the razor. I haven't tried the new Kahles 1-8 but want to.

Kahles: The BEST 1x fov by a wide margin. What you see when you bring the scope up is huge. Tube disappears, giant circle of reality with great situational awareness. Illumination is so-so. Bright enough for daylight, but not super crazy bright. Not a big fan of the intensity dial, wish it had clicks on\off for intensity. Both reticles work great for closeup or far out. Not as durable as the other two just from a general feel impression. Mag ring is easier to turn, more slop, elevation\wind clicks are mushy. But that 1x view....
Glass is very good, but some CA and not as clear as the Schmidt. Lightest weight.

Schmidt dual CC: 1x fov feels cramped. Tube is thick, a little tunnel vision when looking through. Best glass of the 3, clear and very good in low light.
The "dual" 1x v.s. 1.whatever x isn't as noticeable as you would think.
Red dot like illumination looks just like an aimpoint. On 1x the reticle is very faint, almost not there so it's very red dot like when the illumination is on.
At 8x the eyebox is tight, but not overly so.. and the glass is very good so you're able to see details, especially in low light. I really like the reticle design.
Usual great Schmidt turrets and quality.
This would be my top pick for a shtf scope if you have a billion dollars to spend haha.

Razor gen 3:
Love the reticle, 1x fov very good.. almost as big as the Kahles but not quite. Reticle on 10x is awesome, also usable through the whole range. I have the mrad version, not a big fan of ballistic reticles. 10x eyebox is very tight. You need to be stationary and not moving to really use it. Not really a problem but it's a little finicky. Crazy bright illumination. Build quality tougher than the Kahles. Better turrets\clicks than Kahles, seems more durable. My only gripe with the Razor is the glass, when comparing side by side to the other two scopes you see where your money went. Edge distortion and funny business when panning the scope around. Wish I could get this scope with better glass in it. A trade-off to get that 10x mag. Great choice for all features unless you suffer from glass snobbery like myself.
Excellent summary. Thanks for the info.
 

nagantguy

Private
Minuteman
Aug 28, 2020
44
28
I’ve been following this post and was hesitant to add my 2 cents one cause I’m a “newbie” and not a glass snob.
As other have mentioned having multiple of something is sound policy if your planning on madmax times . Two is one one is none, 4 is good 7 is better. Anyhow I had the chance last winter to buy 7 of the Nikon 1.5-4x20 600 yard BCD scopes. Two are on AR style pistols and one is on my backup patrol rifle. Very light weight , decent glass, repeatable clicks and easy to hit with out to 400 meters. Having bought them for next to nothing in a buyer take all auction lot I GEW it was a solid win, have a few spares and I don’t know if they’d hold up to a day long no holds barred shootout but the ones I have mounted have spent almost a year in a work truck on a boat or on a tractor and are still ticking .
and to head off any flaming - no I’m not saying they are S&B or NF quality and my $100 optic is as good as X Y or Z. Just saying for light weight and decent i was happy with my lot purchase.
Also find that on the 1.5 setting they are clear and quick enough to make snap shots at squirrels woodchucks coyotes and such inside 100 yards.
 

koshkin

Dark Lord Of Optics
Belligerents
Minuteman
Feb 22, 2006
3,606
4,709
New Mexico
www.opticsthoughts.com
I’ve been following this post and was hesitant to add my 2 cents one cause I’m a “newbie” and not a glass snob.
As other have mentioned having multiple of something is sound policy if your planning on madmax times . Two is one one is none, 4 is good 7 is better. Anyhow I had the chance last winter to buy 7 of the Nikon 1.5-4x20 600 yard BCD scopes. Two are on AR style pistols and one is on my backup patrol rifle. Very light weight , decent glass, repeatable clicks and easy to hit with out to 400 meters. Having bought them for next to nothing in a buyer take all auction lot I GEW it was a solid win, have a few spares and I don’t know if they’d hold up to a day long no holds barred shootout but the ones I have mounted have spent almost a year in a work truck on a boat or on a tractor and are still ticking .
and to head off any flaming - no I’m not saying they are S&B or NF quality and my $100 optic is as good as X Y or Z. Just saying for light weight and decent i was happy with my lot purchase.
Also find that on the 1.5 setting they are clear and quick enough to make snap shots at squirrels woodchucks coyotes and such inside 100 yards.
That is a perfectly sound thing to do. Redundancy is a very underappreciated thing.

ILya
 
  • Like
Reactions: Desert Ranger Tycho

CBDR

Sergeant
Belligerents
Minuteman
Mar 4, 2017
554
273
Jacksonville FL.
Boy did this thread go to hell fast... but then made a nice recovery. I do not like mudslinging, but not that we are back to civilized discourse, I figured I should chime in again.

My original recommendation of Vortex Razor Gen 3 and S&B Dual CC, generally stands, but the S&B is designed to work on 1x with a battery. It works really well, but I would have liked some reticle features that give it usability if push comes to shove without a battery (and gave that feedback to S&B). Here is what it looks like on 1x with the illumination on and off:
http://instagr.am/p/B_7v5inJHUR/ http://instagr.am/p/B_8-2V5JcaS/
Interestingly, at close range, I can comfortably get quick center of mass hits without the reticle being there at all, but that starts getting iffy (for me), past 25 yards or so.

Vortex Razor Gen3 1-10x24 has non-illuminated reticle features that work on 1x. It is no an ideal arrangement, but it is usable.
Here is what it looks like non-illuminated:
http://instagr.am/p/B9roJehpdyk/
And illuminated, though not on full blast:
http://instagr.am/p/B9qPMPkpRTG/
For a general purpose scope that goes to fairly high illumination, I do prefer FFP. In use, it is comforting to not care at all which magnification I am on.

Now, if you really want non-illuminated visibility on 1x, you kinda have to go with SFP and there Vortex Razor Gen2E 1-6x24 is very nice and very quick, as is the similar Delta Stryker 1-6x24 that is a little lighter. I think the SIg Tango6 1-6x24 is also a related design.

Here is a look through the Stryker 1-6x24:
http://instagr.am/p/CAA4nqOpgon/
That having been said, if this is an exercise in planning for a civilizational collapse and what will happen when you can no longer get batteries, you are probably thinking about it the wrong way.

Aside from the fact that you will have many other significantly more important problems than optics selection, you should really be thinking about redundancy. If this is really a plan for something apocalyptic, I would be buying and setting up multiple sighting systems. Everything made by man can and does break occasionally, so you better have backup.

By all means, get the nicest LPVO you can afford, but if also get something simple and durable for backup. For example, something simple like the SWFA SS 3-9x42 with an offset red dot will cost you a lot less money, have a proven track record of durability and provide some redundancy. And it will work better for hunting in low light owing to a large objective lens. You are far more likely to be foraging for food than fighting off hordes of zombies.

To be entirely honest, I am as paranoid as anyone else and I do have two of those SWFA 3-9x42 scopes set up with red dots exactly as I mentioned. I also have Razor Gen3 and S&B Dual CC. And the 1-6 Stryker. And a bunch of other stuff. Scopes come and go all the time. At any given time, I have between 30 and 60 different scopes and red dots here. New stuff gets here all the time and other stuff leaves. However, for every scopable rifle, I have a primary scope and a back up scope. It has nothing with coming apocalypse. I just like redundancy and consider it to be cheap insurance for some of life's quirks.

ILya
Excellent. And I'm guessing this is what motivated you to put together your latest LPVO video. Very helpful. I have yet to purchase one. I have been shopping for an LPVO to place on my LaRue 6.5G. I have become spoiled by FFP optics. Never been in combat. Have no plans on keeping zombies at bay. Just shootin hogs at night in the Okefenokee. I love my S&B Ultra Short. May consider their I x 8
R/
CBDR
 
  • Like
Reactions: Desert Ranger Tycho

Desert Ranger Tycho

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
May 23, 2020
102
60
Thank you both @Odysseus1911 & @Vereor

This site costs me so much money! Well, there is no moving van following your coffin.

Maxwell
After all my pontificating about buying a bunch of cheap red dots for budget ARs I went an used my Covid money to buy a Razor Gen III for my Scar 17S.... Oh well, Guess I am as much as a gun junky elitist as the rest of you.
 

freedom71

Private
Hessian
Belligerents
Minuteman
Mar 5, 2017
111
21
Raleigh NC
The excellent reviews by Ilya and kurpak are pretty much spot on with my own experience. I've had the K16i and now have the K18i and S&B Dual CC.

The FOV on both the K16 and K18 are a wonder to behold—like kurpak said, the tube disappears and there's a giant circle of reality with great situational awareness. The illumination on the K16 is barely daylight bright, but the K18 is much better. It has a super-bright setting that is very close to a RDS—no problem at all seeing it in bright daylight. YMMV, but I also like the dual dot system in the K18's 3GR reticle; for me, it greatly helps adjust my aim point for close-in shooting.

The K18 is definitely an improvement over the K16, especially when using different magnifications. The FOV still is superb, the glass is as good or possibly better, the reticle is better both at 1x and at magnification, the difference in weight is negligible, and of course the 1-8 is better than the 1-6. Had I not gotten a really, REALLY good deal on the S&B Dual CC, I would have been entirely happy with the K18. Even with the deal, I had to think about a while before making the decision (my K18i is on sale at the PX now).

The S&B does have a smaller FOV and more of the tube edge visible, but I don't get "tunnel vision" like kurpak. It's not as good as the K16/18 (nothing is), but it's not that bad, either. Several things made the difference for me over the K18: (1) the red dot is Aimpoint bright, as kurpak said; (2) the parallax in CC is at 7m, and then goes to 100m at magnification—I'm noticing more how this helps as I use the scope at short distances; (3) it's FFP over the SFP Kahles scopes; (4) the reticle at 6x and 8x mag is the best I've seen; (5) best glass and turrets; and (6) better durability by reputation.

The absence of the reticle at 1x when non-illuminated has not bothered me as much as Ilya and kurpak. There still is a small black dot which can be seen in many instances, especially when you train yourself to look for it. This is something that S&B should change, however.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LeadZeke

squishee

crippled fat old man
Belligerents
Minuteman
Nov 25, 2013
288
243
I noticed earlier in this thread a mention that all steiner p4xi lose zero ?
Is this a fact? As i want one.
Same was mentioned that vortex wont last beyond 3k or so downrange.
Is the gen 2 pst 1x6 junk too? Kinda want one of those as well.
 

CBDR

Sergeant
Belligerents
Minuteman
Mar 4, 2017
554
273
Jacksonville FL.
The excellent reviews by Ilya and kurpak are pretty much spot on with my own experience. I've had the K16i and now have the K18i and S&B Dual CC.

The FOV on both the K16 and K18 are a wonder to behold—like kurpak said, the tube disappears and there's a giant circle of reality with great situational awareness. The illumination on the K16 is barely daylight bright, but the K18 is much better. It has a super-bright setting that is very close to a RDS—no problem at all seeing it in bright daylight. YMMV, but I also like the dual dot system in the K18's 3GR reticle; for me, it greatly helps adjust my aim point for close-in shooting.

The K18 is definitely an improvement over the K16, especially when using different magnifications. The FOV still is superb, the glass is as good or possibly better, the reticle is better both at 1x and at magnification, the difference in weight is negligible, and of course the 1-8 is better than the 1-6. Had I not gotten a really, REALLY good deal on the S&B Dual CC, I would have been entirely happy with the K18. Even with the deal, I had to think about a while before making the decision (my K18i is on sale at the PX now).

The S&B does have a smaller FOV and more of the tube edge visible, but I don't get "tunnel vision" like kurpak. It's not as good as the K16/18 (nothing is), but it's not that bad, either. Several things made the difference for me over the K18: (1) the red dot is Aimpoint bright, as kurpak said; (2) the parallax in CC is at 7m, and then goes to 100m at magnification—I'm noticing more how this helps as I use the scope at short distances; (3) it's FFP over the SFP Kahles scopes; (4) the reticle at 6x and 8x mag is the best I've seen; (5) best glass and turrets; and (6) better durability by reputation.

The absence of the reticle at 1x when non-illuminated has not bothered me as much as Ilya and kurpak. There still is a small black dot which can be seen in many instances, especially when you train yourself to look for it. This is something that S&B should change, however.
I am leaning more & more towards the older model PMII S&B 1.5 - 8 x 26 Short dot. For those up close and Adrenalin filled moments after dark with the hogs.
R/
CBDR
 

squishee

crippled fat old man
Belligerents
Minuteman
Nov 25, 2013
288
243
P4Xi losing zero? Since when?

ILya


Post 86
10). Steiner Px4. All that I have seen lose zero from impacts.
2). Vortex 1-6x Gen II is excellent on 1x, reticle is fine without illumination. The first four that I used had catastrophic failures before 3,500 rounds. The fifth has lasted more than 40k. Have seen dozens more used heavily, with more issues than is acceptable.
 
Last edited:

Tortuga

Jalapeno cheese spread is life!
Belligerents
Minuteman
Apr 12, 2009
73
42
NH
I have had a Meopta ZD 1-4x for number of years now. It's been a joy to use; boringly reliable and rugged.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Frank_Castle

squishee

crippled fat old man
Belligerents
Minuteman
Nov 25, 2013
288
243
With the current price of the Steiner being more than the pst isn't the pst worth it for the extra 2x?
For me im older and seem to get blinder by the week.
I can get a pst for 50 bucks less than the Steiner..
Sorry for making the waters muddy but i didn't want to start another thread as there is lots of good info here.
 

Hondo64d

Sergeant
Belligerents
Minuteman
May 12, 2006
935
323
The Big Country
Looking for a "do it all" LPVO for SHTF (or whatever we are calling a general upending of normal life this week). Home defense is taken care of already with a T2, I'm looking for an LPVO or similar that is almost as fast/durable and with as low a signature (no/low forward light emission). What I want the LPVO to bring to the table that the T2 cannot is more magnification and the best recticle possible for a world that could be without batteries. A reticle that can work well on 1x without illumination, in conjunction with a white light, and also stretch out at 6-10x and be usable. Price isn't much of an issue. So far I'm considering:

1.) Khales K16i (SM1 reticle) or K18i (3GR reticle).

2.) Vortex Razor Gen II-E or Gen III.

3.) S&B Short Dots - maybe dual CC?

4.) Elcan 1x/4x.

5.) Maybe the 1-4x or 1-6x Accupoint for the fiberoptic?

Why no ACOG? Terrible eye box and slow up close, at least for me and my eyes.

Will primarily be used on a 13.9in AR15 and 14.5in AR10. Any feedback is welcome.

While not on your list, I stopped by SWFA a couple of days ago and picked up a 1-6 HD Demo B. At $400 off from SWFA’s full price, an absolute bargain. Looked brand new to me. I think they have the best designed reticle available in a FFP LPVO. The big ring disappears out of the FOV at 6x and is a perfect sized CQB ring at 1x. Genius... Illumination is done just right. Daylight visible at highest setting. Barely visible at near dark on lowest setting. Glass is very nice. Turrets are very positive with ample adjustment range, slightly over 30 mils elevation on my scope. Haven’t shot it yet, so tracking remains to be seen, but based on my other SWFAs, I don’t expect any issues.

John
 
  • Like
Reactions: PBWalsh

koshkin

Dark Lord Of Optics
Belligerents
Minuteman
Feb 22, 2006
3,606
4,709
New Mexico
www.opticsthoughts.com
P4Xi losing zero? Since when?

ILya


Post 86
10). Steiner Px4. All that I have seen lose zero from impacts.
2). Vortex 1-6x Gen II is excellent on 1x, reticle is fine without illumination. The first four that I used had catastrophic failures before 3,500 rounds. The fifth has lasted more than 40k. Have seen dozens more used heavily, with more issues than is acceptable.
Yeah, there are thousands of these out there holding zero just fine. I talked to the guy on the phone. Seems like a good dude, but his experience does not match the reality of how many of these are out there doing great.

I'll leave it at that.

ILya
 

squishee

crippled fat old man
Belligerents
Minuteman
Nov 25, 2013
288
243
ILya Thanks i take your word as truth. Maybe my post sounded off key ,i dont know . I was just asking how his comments didn't reflect my research so far.
 

gnochi

Gunny Sergeant
Belligerents
Minuteman
May 6, 2019
596
355
Orange County, CA
With the current price of the Steiner being more than the pst isn't the pst worth it for the extra 2x?
For me im older and seem to get blinder by the week.
I can get a pst for 50 bucks less than the Steiner..
Sorry for making the waters muddy but i didn't want to start another thread as there is lots of good info here.
I have the Steiner and I’ve done side by sides with the PST2 and a few other scopes. The Steiner glass punches well above its price class - to my eyes it’s a bit clearer and crisper than the Razor II 1-6 - and the red dot gets much brighter. I’d rather have a clear 4x and a clear and bright 1x than a relatively low-contrast 6x and a decent 1x.

Really, my only issues with the Steiner are that it’s SFP and the turrets are mushy, but there are no good FFP LVPOs in that price range and I’ve yet to touch the turrets after zeroing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: squishee

greg1147

Private
Belligerents
Minuteman
Sep 12, 2017
67
21
Virginia
I have a Primary Arms PLx 1-8x24 w/ ACSS Griffin reticle (a main reason for purchase) and really like it. Lots a great features including great glass.
Yup my go to rifle for just about everything, even thought about selling my SBR Geissele URG, Eotech , nah forget that.
 

squishee

crippled fat old man
Belligerents
Minuteman
Nov 25, 2013
288
243
I have the Steiner and I’ve done side by sides with the PST2 and a few other scopes. The Steiner glass punches well above its price class - to my eyes it’s a bit clearer and crisper than the Razor II 1-6 - and the red dot gets much brighter. I’d rather have a clear 4x and a clear and bright 1x than a relatively low-contrast 6x and a decent 1x.

Really, my only issues with the Steiner are that it’s SFP and the turrets are mushy, but there are no good FFP LVPOs in that price range and I’ve yet to touch the turrets after zeroing.
Thanks Steiner inbound from cameraland
 

army_eod

Retired Army
Banned !
Minuteman
Apr 20, 2008
818
1,120
68
AL
Well probably not a military grade optic, but I did not like my FFP Optika6 1-6. So I am going to run a Vortex Viper PST 2.5-10. It is SFP.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Desert Ranger Tycho

Budrichard

Private
Minuteman
Feb 16, 2019
41
23
Took 6 months to get my S&B Dual CC Pantone from CameraLand and then Doug gave S&B the boot!
Anyway, after reading this Thread did find the small dot and post cross hairs without illumnation on but with a
darker background, they disappear completely. Other wise I love the 1X, CC dot.
I have the scope on a SIG MCX Pistol with Giessle mount for a very nice package.
-RichardAC1717CE-7035-4925-B820-534B4E704D96.jpeg
 

Burdy

Private
Belligerents
Minuteman
Jul 10, 2013
633
398
I want to see a side by side comparison of the K18i with 3GR and the S&B Dual CC short dot w/ MDR-T6 with both at 8 power. If anyone has both, I would greatly appreciate it.
 

LMT/556

Private
Hessian
Minuteman
Dec 22, 2018
95
35
USA
How do you like the 1-6? How does it compare to a razor or such?
I finally received the scope, glass is comparable to Razor Gen 2, the ocular is just a thin ring at 1x, maybe slightly thicker than a razor but close. Weight and size are all reasonable, adjustment are fully capped and at .1 mil feel fine, no data on durability. If they had a reticle for 77 gr I'd gone that route, but the mil reticle is certainly usable if you know your dope. Magnification adjustment ring is reasonable and smooth, nice middle ground in feel. Lighting is daylight bright, the center + looks kinda smeared with my aging eyes but at 1x both eyes open it works. As usual though jack of trades is master of none. And I ordered a capped NXS 1x8, so whatever... This scope seems to fill the intended role so we'll see.

Side note: no zero stop but once you zero your rifle, pull out on the adjustment knobs, rotate to 0 and push them back in. The alignment isn't perfect but close.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hypno02

A-Rob

Hermit
Belligerents
Minuteman
May 2, 2017
476
232
Old FL
My choice was a Sig Tango6t, initially because I got it for a ridiculously low price. It seems like it as durable as anything else below a NF, it has a very nice image with a thin occular visible, it's very bright and It was cheap. That checks the boxes for me. Considering that it is very rare to shoot over 200 yds in my area it is a good option for a general use scope.
 

Desert Ranger Tycho

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
May 23, 2020
102
60
I am loving the new Vortex Gen III 1-10 on my Scar Heavy. Glass is clear and the reticle is usable at 100 Yards. Waiting for a chance to test it out past 100.
 

Spydey225

Private
Minuteman
Mar 29, 2020
28
15
Has anyone switched from the Razor Gen II 1-6 to an NX8? Im very much in the same boat as OP, but currently run a Razor 1-6 (Non - E) that Im looking to swap out. For my uses the Razor is simply too heavy, and while I love the 1x performance, Im looking for something a bit smaller/lighter while retaining the same sort of 1x speed. If I swap over to the NX8 will I regret it? 80% of the use is at 1x, and it'll be a defensive-minded rifle, so the NX8 seemed like a logical candidate.
 

redneckbmxer24

Merica!
Belligerents
Minuteman
  • Jan 15, 2005
    7,452
    3,011
    Gulf Coast, FL
    Has anyone switched from the Razor Gen II 1-6 to an NX8? Im very much in the same boat as OP, but currently run a Razor 1-6 (Non - E) that Im looking to swap out. For my uses the Razor is simply too heavy, and while I love the 1x performance, Im looking for something a bit smaller/lighter while retaining the same sort of 1x speed. If I swap over to the NX8 will I regret it? 80% of the use is at 1x, and it'll be a defensive-minded rifle, so the NX8 seemed like a logical candidate.
    I had a NX8 and didn’t even mount it because the fisheye effect at 1x was so bad. What a turd. Yes, you will be disappointed coming from the razor because the razor is excellent at 1x. I believe the MK6 and K16 are a little lighter and they both work great.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: mgrs

    xxflyingturtlexx

    Private
    Minuteman
    Jun 23, 2020
    36
    43
    I had a NX8 and didn’t even mount it because the fisheye effect at 1x was so bad. What a turd. Yes, you will be disappointed coming from the razor because the razor is excellent at 1x. I believe the MK6 and K16 are a little lighter and they both work great.
    there is no fisheye at all. You simply could not set it up correctly and what a shame haha.
    I like the mk6 more though
     

    FMJ

    Lead Slinger
    Belligerents
    Minuteman
    Dec 5, 2004
    86
    142
    West of the Rocky's
    Had to sell my ACOG's a few years back. With no diopter adjustment they don't work for us older eyes. ACOG's are made for young men who like to break things. A low power optic gives you more options with variable power. Now using a Kahles k16i 1-6x24 and the glass is out of this world.
     

    Snapper314

    Private
    Minuteman
    Apr 8, 2020
    14
    3
    there is no fisheye at all. You simply could not set it up correctly and what a shame haha.
    I like the mk6 more though
    Correct.

    My NX8 has no fisheye at 1x, nor should any once properly installed and adjusted.

    Regarding the best LPVO for SHTF or any similar use...

    I'm leaning heavily toward the Vortex Razor Gen 3 1-10x with MRad reticle.
     

    HogsLife

    War Machine Leather Works
    Hessian
    Belligerents
    Minuteman
    Nov 28, 2018
    925
    1,195
    Ventura, Commiefornia
    Looking for a "do it all" LPVO for SHTF (or whatever we are calling a general upending of normal life this week). Home defense is taken care of already with a T2, I'm looking for an LPVO or similar that is almost as fast/durable and with as low a signature (no/low forward light emission). What I want the LPVO to bring to the table that the T2 cannot is more magnification and the best recticle possible for a world that could be without batteries. A reticle that can work well on 1x without illumination, in conjunction with a white light, and also stretch out at 6-10x and be usable. Price isn't much of an issue. So far I'm considering:

    1.) Khales K16i (SM1 reticle) or K18i (3GR reticle).

    2.) Vortex Razor Gen II-E or Gen III.

    3.) S&B Short Dots - maybe dual CC?

    4.) Elcan 1x/4x.

    5.) Maybe the 1-4x or 1-6x Accupoint for the fiberoptic?

    Why no ACOG? Terrible eye box and slow up close, at least for me and my eyes.

    Will primarily be used on a 13.9in AR15 and 14.5in AR10. Any feedback is welcome.
    got a S&B Short Dot 1.1-4 with a Dr and love it man. Don’t have any experience with the Others but I dig this one

    4ED96225-AFF0-401C-9EDA-5BC0D8D2D499.jpeg
     

    mgrs

    Sergeant of the Hide
    Belligerents
    Minuteman
    Feb 18, 2018
    443
    423
    VA
    Has anyone switched from the Razor Gen II 1-6 to an NX8? Im very much in the same boat as OP, but currently run a Razor 1-6 (Non - E) that Im looking to swap out. For my uses the Razor is simply too heavy, and while I love the 1x performance, Im looking for something a bit smaller/lighter while retaining the same sort of 1x speed. If I swap over to the NX8 will I regret it? 80% of the use is at 1x, and it'll be a defensive-minded rifle, so the NX8 seemed like a logical candidate.
    The NX8 makes some compromises to be as small as it is with the zoom ratio it has. You will not get the 1x as ‘flat’ as others, the image brightness will seem darker, particularly above 6x, and the eye box will be tight compared to others

    On the other hand, the illumination is some of the best, it is tiny, and (presumably) very durable. Mine developed internal debris problems very quickly, but this does not seem to be normal and NF fixed it with no drama.

    FWIW, I could not get the 1x edge distortion out of mine either. Still a good optic.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Jackalope

    Jackalope

    Sergeant of the Hide
    Belligerents
    Minuteman
    Jun 8, 2017
    233
    278
    Flagstaff AZ
    The NX8 makes some compromises to be as small as it is with the zoom ratio it has. You will not get the 1x as ‘flat’ as others, the image brightness will seem darker, particularly above 6x, and the eye box will be tight compared to others

    On the other hand, the illumination is some of the best, it is tiny, and (presumably) very durable. Mine developed internal debris problems very quickly, but this does not seem to be normal and NF fixed it with no drama.

    FWIW, I could not get the 1x edge distortion out of mine either. Still a good optic.
    Nailed it. Setting the diopter seems particularly critical with the NX8, but could be my eyes.
     

    mgrs

    Sergeant of the Hide
    Belligerents
    Minuteman
    Feb 18, 2018
    443
    423
    VA
    Nailed it. Setting the diopter seems particularly critical with the NX8, but could be my eyes.
    It does, I think my post could have been taken either way- I meant to say that I was never able to get the image as ‘flat’ as just about anything else above $1000. Does not seem to be a huge deal at speed, but if you’re looking for it, you’ll find it.

    Neat little scope; just need to be sure it is what you want before you buy.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Jackalope

    Spydey225

    Private
    Minuteman
    Mar 29, 2020
    28
    15
    Eh, thanks for the recommendations guys... looks like I may just keep the Razor and try to cut some weight somewhere else. Obviously LPVOs arent going to be as light as red dots, but my upper setup with the Razor is an absolute pig.
     

    barth7

    Private
    Minuteman
    Oct 8, 2020
    7
    2
    Just to share my experience ( which is Much less than many here), my P4xi 1-4 has been great. I bought it earlier this year from Doug based on research primarily here and it did exactly what I wanted. Relatively small and light, bright red dot with a lot of adjustment range, very clear glass, etc. Added butler creek caps and aero mount. Turrets are a little mushy and more than 4X would be nice but I can live with those compromises.
     

    army_eod

    Retired Army
    Banned !
    Minuteman
    Apr 20, 2008
    818
    1,120
    68
    AL
    Just to share my experience ( which is Much less than many here), my P4xi 1-4 has been great. I bought it earlier this year from Doug based on research primarily here and it did exactly what I wanted. Relatively small and light, bright red dot with a lot of adjustment range, very clear glass, etc. Added butler creek caps and aero mount. Turrets are a little mushy and more than 4X would be nice but I can live with those compromises.
    Mine gets here today.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Shooter McGavin

    army_eod

    Retired Army
    Banned !
    Minuteman
    Apr 20, 2008
    818
    1,120
    68
    AL
    The new Steiner 1-4 is a beautiful optic. Got it mounted on the FN15 DMR. Next I will boresight and get it zeroed.
    That red dot is very bright.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Sandhog308

    Night Vision Viking

    N00b
    Minuteman
    Oct 20, 2020
    19
    17
    Europe
    www.youtube.com
    I have Z6i, V8 1.1-8x tried several Kahles and Leicas.
    The Trijicon VCOG can probably be used as a hammer, but optically it's inferior.

    Also have a S&B 1-8x Dual CC. Optically it's very close to the best from Swaro, Kahles and Zeiss sports optics, but it's most likely going to last a lot longer than the other German scopes. Good if you have extra batteries.

    Best for SHTF? Probably an Aimpoint CompM5s, but it's not what you asked for...
     
    • Like
    Reactions: army_eod