- Thread starter M77
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I think you’ll like it, my first impressions are that it’s a solid overall package with a nice form factor to boot. From my short time behind the Leupold 3.6-18, I prefer the Steiner. However, I have not yet had the chance to verify its repeatability. I’ve got three tenths below the zero stop and 22.8 mils of elevation adjustment with a 20 MOA base btw.
I do have some constructive criticisms of the scope to offer.
Turrets: I think Husky said it best, that the turrets are just passable, but I’m used to a more firm elevation dial tension with more audible and sharper/more tactile feeling “clicks” that provide a little better user feedback, and more importantly, with zero play once “clicked” into the detents. I guess I’ve become a turret snob, too. The turrets are not bad by any stretch but I’ve just grown accustomed to the different feel of my ZP5’s. Also, the windage turret feels better than the elevation turret, which is a first for me. I wish this was the other way around. The windage knob is both more firm, tactile, and has less play when set. It is actually very nice.
In a closeup, daytime hunting situation, the quieter, softer elevation clicks could be preferable to louder ones I suppose. And the locking feature is pretty nice to have as well. I’ve just never felt that I needed turret locks until now.
IQ: There is some CA that becomes apparent against high contrast targets when I’m not centered up in the scope. When I’m in correct position it goes away. But it’s easy to induce, especially on the edges of the field of view. Use good fundamentals and it shouldn’t be an issue.
Locking mechanism: Care must be taken to avoid moving the elevation turret when locking it out, due to a combination of how thin the locking ring is and how little effort is required to move the turret. I don’t think I could lock mine out one handed without disturbing the turret with gloves on. This is not as apparent on the windage turret because it’s better.
Parallax ring: The parallax ring is fairly stiff and I can feel tiny detents when rotating it, which lends itself to a gritty feel. Perhaps this will fade with use. I got spoiled by the PMII’s parallax knob, which is buttery smooth.
But that’s mostly just nitpicking and subjective, and this scope should not be judged as if it cost $3k+. All in all, I’m very pleased with mine. The IQ is great, it’s easy to get behind, it feels robust but not obnoxiously heavy, it has a solid zero stop, it comes with Tenebraex caps and a metal throw lever, Steiner threw in a set of T-series rings, it’s made in America
, and best of all, it’s got the MSR2 reticle. (This is not subjective, the MSR2 reticle is the best.) Also I should mention that the service provided by Scott at Liberty Optics has been wonderful.
Hope this helps.
It really is a fantastic scope. Super impressed with mine. Can't wait to shoot it.I think you’ll like it, my first impressions are that it’s a solid overall package with a nice form factor to boot. From my short time behind the Leupold 3.6-18, I prefer the Steiner. However, I have not yet had the chance to verify its repeatability. I’ve got three tenths below the zero stop and 22.8 mils of elevation adjustment with a 20 MOA base btw.
I do have some constructive criticisms of the scope to offer.
Turrets: I think Husky said it best, that the turrets are just passable, but I’m used to a more firm elevation dial tension with more audible and sharper/more tactile feeling “clicks” that provide a little better user feedback, and more importantly, with zero play once “clicked” into the detents. I guess I’ve become a turret snob, too. The turrets are not bad by any stretch but I’ve just grown accustomed to the different feel of my ZP5’s. Also, the windage turret feels better than the elevation turret, which is a first for me. I wish this was the other way around. The windage knob is both more firm, tactile, and has less play when set. It is actually very nice.
In a closeup, daytime hunting situation, the quieter, softer elevation clicks could be preferable to louder ones I suppose. And the locking feature is pretty nice to have as well. I’ve just never felt that I needed turret locks until now.
IQ: There is some CA that becomes apparent against high contrast targets when I’m not centered up in the scope. When I’m in correct position it goes away. But it’s easy to induce, especially on the edges of the field of view. Use good fundamentals and it shouldn’t be an issue.
Locking mechanism: Care must be taken to avoid moving the elevation turret when locking it out, due to a combination of how thin the locking ring is and how little effort is required to move the turret. I don’t think I could lock mine out one handed without disturbing the turret with gloves on. This is not as apparent on the windage turret because it’s better.
Parallax ring: The parallax ring is fairly stiff and I can feel tiny detents when rotating it, which lends itself to a gritty feel. Perhaps this will fade with use. I got spoiled by the PMII’s parallax knob, which is buttery smooth.
But that’s mostly just nitpicking and subjective, and this scope should not be judged as if it cost $3k+. All in all, I’m very pleased with mine. The IQ is great, it’s easy to get behind, it feels robust but not obnoxiously heavy, it has a solid zero stop, it comes with Tenebraex caps and a metal throw lever, Steiner threw in a set of T-series rings, it’s made in America
Also I should mention that the service provided by Scott at Liberty Optics has been wonderful.
Hope this helps.
Update on the 1-6 with misaligned turret markings. I sent a request to the warranty department for repair or replacement. Their response was “that is in spec.” They then directed me to return the optic and order a new one if I wasn’t satisfied.
I purchased the optic via a pro program that doesn’t allow for returns or exchanges so I thought I was stuck. I reached out to the sales team directly to see if I could exchange. They initially told me to go to my pro program but after I explained that the program doesn’t allow for that avenue, they reached out to the program to confirm. Once confirmed, the sales team then reached out to me directly and provided me with a return label and RMA and will be exchanging the optic for a new one.
I’m thankful that they’re giving me this path forward and I’ve just sent the scope in. Hopefully the new one does not have this issue. I’m disappointed that the warranty department was unwilling to make it right and I had to work with the sales department to do so. Seems like the departments are unaligned in what is or isn’t acceptable or “in spec” for the optics.
I’ll keep the thread posted on how the new optic turns out.
I purchased the optic via a pro program that doesn’t allow for returns or exchanges so I thought I was stuck. I reached out to the sales team directly to see if I could exchange. They initially told me to go to my pro program but after I explained that the program doesn’t allow for that avenue, they reached out to the program to confirm. Once confirmed, the sales team then reached out to me directly and provided me with a return label and RMA and will be exchanging the optic for a new one.
I’m thankful that they’re giving me this path forward and I’ve just sent the scope in. Hopefully the new one does not have this issue. I’m disappointed that the warranty department was unwilling to make it right and I had to work with the sales department to do so. Seems like the departments are unaligned in what is or isn’t acceptable or “in spec” for the optics.
I’ll keep the thread posted on how the new optic turns out.
Range day:
PVS-30, 200 yds about 8x, illum on
Increasingly having a good time with the MSR2. Worried there was a lot going on but now getting used to it after decades of dots, using most of the bits properly, and today (well, before dusk and dark) the lighting was such that the floating dot really did it's thing properly, got the full speed out of it etc.
PVS-30, 200 yds about 8x, illum on
Increasingly having a good time with the MSR2. Worried there was a lot going on but now getting used to it after decades of dots, using most of the bits properly, and today (well, before dusk and dark) the lighting was such that the floating dot really did it's thing properly, got the full speed out of it etc.
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Good to know. Found a 2.5-15x demo on DVOR for $1235 shipped, but they sold it before I could check out. Contacted customer support and they are extending the same price to me for a brand new one.
I’m glad Steiner did green illumination instead of red I have astigmatism and the green I can see more clearly and better then red illumination and I love my t6xi
I’m thinking I should have ordered the 2.5-15 MIL instead of the MOA. Everything I’ve read shows that the MOA version is the only one that has a red reticle.
Well moa is wrong altogether...
Not when you’re too dumb to figure out mil.
O idk I have the 5x30 scr2 t6xi and i like it and I have a green dot for my 22 green for me is just better
They make a cheat sheet lol I’m glad I switched to mils so much easier
If you are too "dumb" to use mils then you probably shouldn't have a rifle.
It's the same as using MOA but a different number. LOLIt’s green. I have that scope in moa and I have the 3-18x56 with msr2. I can use and do use both mil and moa.
You got a point. I’ve owned one mil scope and the rest have been MOA. Ended up selling that scope because I hated it. Guess my next scope will be in mils.If you are too "dumb" to use mils then you probably shouldn't have a rifle.
Thanks man. Was hoping someone who had the same scope would comment. This will be the nicest scope that I’ve owned and will go on my first custom build, a Tikka CTR with carbon fiber Bartlein.
It doesn't have to be. If you like MOA then use it. Just don't think Mils is anything different or more difficult. It's the same process with a different number to dial or hold.
No problem. It’s an awesome scope.
Well, it depends. Many scope manufacturers say "MOA" when they mean "Hunter MOA," which means the turrets move an inch rather than 1.047", with an attitude of, "eh, close enough," which is a difference you may not notice at 100 yards, but the reticle (real MOA) and the turrets will be off out at 1000 yards as that error stacks up beyond 100 yards.
A minute of angle is 10.47" at 1000 yards, but the turret adjustment is not off by half an inch for each one "MOA" if you have hunter MOA turrets that adjust a "quarter inch per click" at 100 yards.
Using mil scopes gets rid of this uncertainty, since there I no real world way of knowing if you have hunter MOA or MOA turrets with MOA reticles.
Great deal!
It’s actually called shooter moa and no scope in this level will do that. That’s cheap garbage scopes that do that. The only one who did it at a higher level was USO but that was years ago both reticle and dials. And yes there is a real world way to know as you can test the tracking and reticle just like you do with any scope. You will see the difference in SMOA and TMOA.
And even then there are ballistic programs that adjust in shooter moa so if you knew you had it you can still do it.
They do? Damn. Figured they would have straightened that out by now. Oh well.
I have exactly this pair, for compare; XTR-Pro 5.5-30x56 SCR2 1/4MIL, vs T6Xi 5-30x56 SCR MIL. Still not even sure how that happened, ha. I mean, I *know* how it happened, I get the new post notifications on my damn phone, all day long.
Peeped an XTR Pro at a match a few months ago and felt it looked like my build-inherited XTR3 after a glass spa day (and with better turrets), so I snagged one here (and sold the XTR3, you all know how this works). Then I started reading the hubbub in this and other threads here about the Steiner, spotted one here, and picked one up too. With the thought that I'll pit them head-to-head against each other, Kahles 5-25i as a benchmark, I'll hopefully find a clear (pun) winner among the two new darlings from Greely, CO. Steiner's still in the box, the Burris has been out once so far. So far the Kahles is still my all-around king considering glass:$$, but hoping these other two come close (and that only one is a winner to me so I can convert the other one into a Cronus and some reloading crap!
)
Then you have NATO Mils vs MRAD: 0.1 MIL (NATO) is actually 0.98 MRAD
The info above taken from https://www.schmidtundbender.de/en/service/did-you-know/127-turrets/1521-moa-mrad-mil-cm.html
Here’s a Wikipedia page section with the relevant info bolded & italicized below. Irritating.
I’m not a math guy nor a military guy. So don’t say I’m wrong or right. I’m just reporting for duty, sirs.
The info above taken from https://www.schmidtundbender.de/en/service/did-you-know/127-turrets/1521-moa-mrad-mil-cm.html
Here’s a Wikipedia page section with the relevant info bolded & italicized below. Irritating.
Prefixes and variants
Metric prefixes for submultiples are used with radians. A milliradian (mrad) is a thousandth of a radian (0.001 rad), i.e. 1 rad = 103 mrad. There are 2π × 1000 milliradians (≈ 6283.185 mrad) in a circle. So a milliradian is just under 1/6283 of the angle subtended by a full circle. This unit of angular measurement of a circle is in common use by telescopic sight manufacturers using (stadiametric) rangefinding in reticles. The divergence of laser beams is also usually measured in milliradians.
The angular mil is an approximation of the milliradian used by NATO and other military organizations in gunneryand targeting. Each angular mil represents 1/6400 of a circle and is 15/8% or 1.875% smaller than the milliradian. For the small angles typically found in targeting work, the convenience of using the number 6400 in calculation outweighs the small mathematical errors it introduces. In the past, other gunnery systems have used different approximations to 1/2000π; for example Sweden used the 1/6300 streck and the USSR used 1/6000. Being based on the milliradian, the NATO mil subtends roughly 1 m at a range of 1000 m (at such small angles, the curvature is negligible).
Prefixes smaller than milli- are useful in measuring extremely small angles. Microradians (μrad, 10−6 rad) and nanoradians (nrad, 10−9 rad) are used in astronomy, and can also be used to measure the beam quality of lasers with ultra-low divergence. More common is the arc second, which is π/648,000 rad (around 4.8481 microradians).
I assume, by reading above, that my scopes are in MRADs, and artillery-type weapons are in NATO MILS?I’m not a math guy nor a military guy. So don’t say I’m wrong or right. I’m just reporting for duty, sirs.
This is used for indirect fire/ artillery. They round the mils to 6400 to keep it easy laying guns and it doesn't really matter as you are usually bracketing in 50 mil increments
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I have exactly this pair, for compare; XTR-Pro 5.5-30x56 SCR2 1/4MIL, vs T6Xi 5-30x56 SCR MIL. Still not even sure how that happened, ha. I mean, I *know* how it happened, I get the new post notifications on my damn phone, all day long.
Peeped an XTR Pro at a match a few months ago and felt it looked like my build-inherited XTR3 after a glass spa day (and with better turrets), so I snagged one here (and sold the XTR3, you all know how this works). Then I started reading the hubbub in this and other threads here about the Steiner, spotted one here, and picked one up too. With the thought that I'll pit them head-to-head against each other, Kahles 5-25i as a benchmark, I'll hopefully find a clear (pun) winner among the two new darlings from Greely, CO. Steiner's still in the box, the Burris has been out once so far. So far the Kahles is still my all-around king considering glass:$$, but hoping these other two come close (and that only one is a winner to me so I can convert the other one into a Cronus and some reloading crap!
Well break it out of the box and go test them! lol
Wikipedia makes my head explode with all the errors baked in by copy and paste. 1 radian does not equal 103 miliradians, and 1 5/8 is not 1.875. They got some of the basic idea right, but don't really give you the why. A radian is just the radius of a circle (in length) measured on the circumference and measured(beginning to end) as an angle from the center. Think of a slice of pie. It takes 2 times pi(3.14.....) , or 6.283185..... of those measurements to complete a circle. Westerners are lazy, so we round up to 6.400 radians, or 6400 mils to make the math easier. Since the scopes we use are derived from military equipment (or converted to military purposes) , 1 mil is equal to 1 meter at 1000 meters. Rant complete
Waaay over my head but yeah. Not surprising about Wikipedia errors.Wikipedia makes my head explode with all the errors baked in by copy and paste. 1 radian does not equal 103 miliradians, and 1 5/8 is not 1.875. They got some of the basic idea right, but don't really give you the why. A radian is just the radius of a circle (in length) measured on the circumference and measured(beginning to end) as an angle from the center. Think of a slice of pie. It takes 2 times pi(3.14.....) , or 6.283185..... of those measurements to complete a circle. Westerners are lazy, so we round up to 6.400 radians, or 6400 mils to make the math easier. Since the scopes we use are derived from military equipment (or converted to military purposes) , 1 mil is equal to 1 meter at 1000 meters. Rant complete
Received my replacement 1-6.
And…exact same issue of aligned turret markings. Seems like for the 1-6 this is just going to be standard for the model.
The optic is 100% outside of that issue so I guess I’ll just live with it.
And…exact same issue of aligned turret markings. Seems like for the 1-6 this is just going to be standard for the model.
The optic is 100% outside of that issue so I guess I’ll just live with it.
I may be mistaken, but if you loosen the set screws and clock the turret it will be aligned... I believe mine were misaligned until I reset the turret at zero after actually zeroing my 1-6 on my rifle....
Yep, not sure what his "issue is".
Loosen the two set screws and align the turret.
My 3-18x56 had misaligned elevation and windage turrets from factory. After siting in, you can align them perfectly. They aren't splined......so you set them wherever the hell you want.
So line them up? What's your issue? Loosen the two turret screws, slip the turret to line them up and tighten down. These turrets aren't splined, so you can set them wherever........unless the 1-6x is somehow different from the 3-18
Ordered a 2.5x15 T6xi MOA reticle back in the first of October when they were released for a new Precision DMR style 5.56 I was building. I haven’t got to abuse it like some shooting several times a week, but I have ran it hard when I have shot and in 3 months it still zeroes back out where I set it (which it should). Glass clarity is fantastic, light transmission at dusk/dawn is great, reticle is not a true day light bright but is fantastic in low light by the lowest settings being very useful and no reticle or target washout (actually had to use it at dusk on a doe). Turrets are audible with about the perfect amount of resistance to where it requires a little effort but I would never be concerned it was accidentally moved even without it locked. It is a little heavy, but it is a scope that feels like it’s made for a little abuse. I am very satisfied with the optic for the features at the price point and think I’m going to order another higher magnification for a large frame AR build I’m working on now.
I did use the scope and rifle to finish filling my freezer with some meat as well with 4 does at the end of the season.
I did use the scope and rifle to finish filling my freezer with some meat as well with 4 does at the end of the season.
Wish the 2.5-15 was a 44mm and 6 ounces lighter but your wish is more feasible than mine
Anyone ever get an actual weight off of one?Wish the 2.5-15 was a 44mm and 6 ounces lighter but your wish is more feasible than mine
The Steiner specs look suspect.
Agreed, but I'm pretty sure it's accurate. The 3-18x56 and 2.5-15x50 seem to be designed by two different design teams, one with a focus of "let's give them what they want" and the other with "let's give them what we think they want", I'll let you figure out which scope fits which design team
Hey, atleast they didn't strike out with the 3-18x56 Msr-2.Agreed, but I'm pretty sure it's accurate. The 3-18x56 and 2.5-15x50 seem to be designed by two different design teams, one with a focus of "let's give them what they want" and the other with "let's give them what we think they want", I'll let you figure out which scope fits which design team
It ticks a lot of my boxes, love it in fact. Scott at liberty came through, got two of them actually. Currently only looking at one, the other is NIB. I know myself better than to get them both out. #scopeslut
The 2nd is an "extra" because Scott likes taking my money and the deal he gave was INCREDIBLE
Sitting on my Origin Proof 6mm Creed mule deer hunting rifle. Can't wait to get some rock chuck practice this spring and use it for hunting in the fall.
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B Man, that’s great to hear. Hopefully have mine by next week sometime. Will put it on a 308win Tikka CTR in a KRG Bravo while my 6.5 carbon fiber Tikka is being built. Planning on using an Area 419 rail, but wanted to use some light, yet strong rings. Have a set of the Vortex rings made by Seekins that I will use for the time being.
What lightweight rings would you guys recommend?
What lightweight rings would you guys recommend?
My 3-18 is ordered, looking forward to checking it out. Got the MSR2.
Last Steiner I owned was a M5 MSR 3-15, it was a great optic.
Last Steiner I owned was a M5 MSR 3-15, it was a great optic.
That’s a gorgeous rifle. Hoping mine looks half that decent. Went with a Tikka action in 6.5 creedmoor, Bartlein carbon fiber barrel and an Iota eko stock. Planning on running it suppressed 100% of the time so I’m only doing 16.5” on the barrel. Just got to decide on a suppressor.Hey, atleast they didn't strike out with the 3-18x56 Msr-2.
It ticks a lot of my boxes, love it in fact. Scott at liberty came through, got two of them actually. Currently only looking at one, the other is NIB. I know myself better than to get them both out. #scopeslut
The 2nd is an "extra" because Scott likes taking my money and the deal he gave was INCREDIBLE
Sitting on my Origin Proof 6mm Creed mule deer hunting rifle. Can't wait to get some rock chuck practice this spring and use it for hunting in the fall.
Are those Seekins rings?
Thank you. I hope yours turns out excellent as well.
Yes, Seekins rings...."Low"
Mesa Precision Altitude Stock. Hawkins "hunter" Flush DBM bottom metal. MDT 3 round plastic mag, pretty much flush.
Bighorn Origin SA
24" Proof Bighorn Prefit (from Stocky's ......Proof Chambered Prefit).
6mm Creedmoor
PVA Jet Blast 3 port
Trigger Tech primary set at 1.5lbs
I'm going to load 112 Barnes.
Currently getting brass by shooting Norma Factory 107HPBT.............Shoots sub 1/2 MOA with factory. Many groups cloverleaf at 100.
One of the most consistently accurate rifles so far, I've got less than 100 rounds through it. Looking forward to getting a bit more brass and loading those 112 Barnes.
