Night Vision Super Yoter C - Any Experience Yet?
- Thread starter rlsmith1
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I think the Yoter C will be a better rail mounted option, and the Steiner C35 will be a better scope mounted option. Steiner should be including all necessary adaptors when they ship as they aren't listed as a purchase option for dealers and the S35 and H35 came with all kinds of accessories. Originally it was suppose to ship in Nov, but now it is late Feb. I will drop some side by side comparisons as well as comparisons with my MWIR 320 thermal and the new EoTech XELR when everything is shipped. I feel sorry for everyone who bought a $10k Trijicon thermal last year.
Already been out for a couple of months in Iray form
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I checked after you told me to get the 1280 one and the same Bering part# referenced both. The only place I saw 1280 was in some references on distributor's websites. Bering's website and the manual that came with the one I have states they are 1024.
If I zoom in with my day scope, I can see individual pixels and they are .25milradians wide each. I suppose if you knew exactly how far the screen was from my reticle, you could calculate that to PPI.
I spent some range time with the one I'm using last week and I was able aim accurately enough to make corrections to center plate on a 33% IPSC (6"x10") @400yds from inside a dark shooting shack. I tried to engage from 700yds but I couldn't find any shade to get the scope out of the sunlight, but I am confident I would have been able to impact the same target with a high percentage of hits.
I've got a few issues with it I need to work through, but the Yoter-C/G3 Razor combo has a shit ton of potential from what I can see.
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Boris from Bering told me Fall of 2022 is their target. Bering typically drops a new thermal every year around September/October. The Super Yoter this year was a bit behind and was in the October time period. Bering doesn't like to give dates because they like to under-promise and over-deliver. From what I have been told, the plans are for a SH LRF and a SY50mm LRF. I write SY50mm because it looks like a SY35 will release earlier in the year. I am not aware of any plans to incorporate it into a C model. Bering hasn't officially announced if the SH LRF or SY LRF will be worked on first or if both will make it by Fall 2022 or just one.
Yeah, recent pics I've viewed of the Yoters performance looks pretty dang impressive.
I'm hoping at some point the iray add on lrf can be made compatible. The programming is probably completely different so not sure if it's even a possibility.
Does the yoter clip on have the stadiometric (sp?) ranging lines feature?
One other question: As I understand the scanner function, with the rear scanner eye piece in place, the unit is a 4x scanner. Could other eye pieces be used/made to make it a 2x scanner? Or a 6x scanner? I haven't seen different power eye pieces available. Why not?
I haven't noticed that feature on mine. A ftp reticle would be more accurate though.
Native magnification is a function of the focal length of the front lens. The eyepiece is just a vehicle to view the video screen. If you change the magnification of the eyepiece you just increase or reduce the amount of the screen you see, not actually change the magnification.
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It has a usb port for power which i think does video out but i don't plan on doing that so i haven't really looked into it.That would be fantastic. Does the Yoter C have an aux port of any type? Maybe they do this in a Yoter C 2.0 or a Yoter C 60mm
Honestly if it's a good rangefinder just a dimable display on the back would be fine.
Anybody running one of these on a NX8 2.5-20? I'm getting substancial paralax (as I move my head around inside the eye box of the scope, my reticle moves in relation to the image on the screen) The G3 has a set focus distance and paralax isn't adjustable.
The fact that the NX8 has adjustable paralax down to 11yds leads me to believe this would help. Plus I want exposed turrets to dial.
Maybe @wigwamitus could give us a lesson on Paralax and focus with a LPVO while using a clip on. I've searched and I can't find where it has ever been talked about.
The fact that the NX8 has adjustable paralax down to 11yds leads me to believe this would help. Plus I want exposed turrets to dial.
Maybe @wigwamitus could give us a lesson on Paralax and focus with a LPVO while using a clip on. I've searched and I can't find where it has ever been talked about.
As far as thermal clipons and parallax, here are the setups I documented using in the past year ...
==
VO PST g2 1-6x with Breach as a clipon using MA dove tail and skeet mount. Got good alignment with the day scope, which is using VO mount, it was sold with.
This one got 1" groups at 50yds and I killed a couple of mice with it. Just testing. As an "emergency" thermal clipon, it works out to 200yds, but the image gets fuzzy above 2x on the day scope.
This VO had no parallax adjustment and the breach has no user usable focus. The breach does have a diopter.
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NF 2.5-20x with Genesis A40 clipon
The NF has parallax adjustment, in general I set these to minimum value for clipons. The A40 has manual focus but no diopter, its designed as a clipon.
==
Tig-IR 6z+ with L&S mk4 2.5-8x
I used this setup quite a bit with good results, tight groups, hitting where I was aiming out to 350yds. The Tig has no manual focus or diopter. The mk4 has no parallax. I tested it out farther, but sweet spot seemed to be inside 350yds.
The Tig did come with 3 swappable mount plates, to enable you to configure it to optimize for various center height mounted day scopes. I was using 36mm net mount for the Tig, to most closely match 34mm mounts on my bolt guns (which are 34mm center to match 1.31 center height of UTC (33.2mm). The L&S mk4 is in Larue 1.535 mount, but had no issues.
==
Tig-IR 6z+ with L&S mk6 3-18x
I used this setup some when I first got the Tig. The L&S has parallax, the Tig has no manual focus or diopter.
==
And here's UTC-x with L&S mk6 3-18x
The UTC has manual focus and internal reticles but no diopter. The L&S has parallax.
==
So, as an example, the UTC with an internal reticle turned on, can be seen to exhibit a bit of parallax.
As stated, I generally turn parallax to minimum distance setting when mounting clipons. You are parallaxing to something a few inches in front of the day scope objective, so its not going to be perfect.
But judging by results, including mount/remount testing, with me standing up and walking around between each remount, and shooting multiple groups at 100yds, the effect of the parallax is not detectable. Over the past year, I've also shot steel out to 660yds and the bullets hit where I was aiming. This was with the UTC and the L&S mk6.
For clipons with diopters, it is critical to adjust the dipoter to achieve minumim POI shift and likely that diopter adjustment will be WAY different than the diopter adjustment for your mk1EB, so you have to mark it, if you want it to be repeatable.
If your clipon has a reticle, you can turn it on and compare to your day scope reticle and easily experiment with observing your parallax. There will be some. Your control for that is consistent head position behind the day scope. With consistent head position, the reticle should also remain crisp.
==
But bottomline, I can't talk about the Yotester situation as I've never touched one, so those who have with need to chime in to add to that data.
==
VO PST g2 1-6x with Breach as a clipon using MA dove tail and skeet mount. Got good alignment with the day scope, which is using VO mount, it was sold with.
This one got 1" groups at 50yds and I killed a couple of mice with it. Just testing. As an "emergency" thermal clipon, it works out to 200yds, but the image gets fuzzy above 2x on the day scope.
This VO had no parallax adjustment and the breach has no user usable focus. The breach does have a diopter.
==
NF 2.5-20x with Genesis A40 clipon
The NF has parallax adjustment, in general I set these to minimum value for clipons. The A40 has manual focus but no diopter, its designed as a clipon.
==
Tig-IR 6z+ with L&S mk4 2.5-8x
I used this setup quite a bit with good results, tight groups, hitting where I was aiming out to 350yds. The Tig has no manual focus or diopter. The mk4 has no parallax. I tested it out farther, but sweet spot seemed to be inside 350yds.
The Tig did come with 3 swappable mount plates, to enable you to configure it to optimize for various center height mounted day scopes. I was using 36mm net mount for the Tig, to most closely match 34mm mounts on my bolt guns (which are 34mm center to match 1.31 center height of UTC (33.2mm). The L&S mk4 is in Larue 1.535 mount, but had no issues.
==
Tig-IR 6z+ with L&S mk6 3-18x
I used this setup some when I first got the Tig. The L&S has parallax, the Tig has no manual focus or diopter.
==
And here's UTC-x with L&S mk6 3-18x
The UTC has manual focus and internal reticles but no diopter. The L&S has parallax.
==
So, as an example, the UTC with an internal reticle turned on, can be seen to exhibit a bit of parallax.
As stated, I generally turn parallax to minimum distance setting when mounting clipons. You are parallaxing to something a few inches in front of the day scope objective, so its not going to be perfect.
But judging by results, including mount/remount testing, with me standing up and walking around between each remount, and shooting multiple groups at 100yds, the effect of the parallax is not detectable. Over the past year, I've also shot steel out to 660yds and the bullets hit where I was aiming. This was with the UTC and the L&S mk6.
For clipons with diopters, it is critical to adjust the dipoter to achieve minumim POI shift and likely that diopter adjustment will be WAY different than the diopter adjustment for your mk1EB, so you have to mark it, if you want it to be repeatable.
If your clipon has a reticle, you can turn it on and compare to your day scope reticle and easily experiment with observing your parallax. There will be some. Your control for that is consistent head position behind the day scope. With consistent head position, the reticle should also remain crisp.
==
But bottomline, I can't talk about the Yotester situation as I've never touched one, so those who have with need to chime in to add to that data.
@wigwamitus Thanks wig, I know we talked about the NX8 earlier, but I don't believe we specifically covered a scope with adjustable paralax vs one with a set focus distance.
I think any scope trying to focus on a screen 2" in front is going to exhibit some, so I don't think it's unique to the Yoter/G3 combo. I found an NX8 this morning. I'll report back.
I think I need to go the opposite direction of Infinity. I don't fully understand it, so I'm going to see if I can borrow an NX8 and find out for myself.
I will clear up the definition of infinity.
"infinity, the concept of something that is unlimited, endless, without bound." Like Buck Fidens endless stupidity.
"infinity, the concept of something that is unlimited, endless, without bound." Like Buck Fidens endless stupidity.
infinity | Definition, Symbol, & Facts
Infinity, the concept of something that is unlimited, endless, without bound. Three main types of infinity may be distinguished: the mathematical, the physical, and the metaphysical. Mathematical infinities occur, for instance, as the number of points on a continuous line.
www.britannica.com
In my limited experience, there seems to be something of issue with 1-10 LPVO scopes and clip-ons. I tried one with my Yoter C and found the same issue as Ksracer. Maybe it's something with the 10x erector and fixed parallax doesn't mesh well? I tried an Eotech Vudu 1-6 and it was was great though, but I ended up settling on a vortex pst gen 2-10x32 ffp (also has adjustable parallax). 2 power on the low end is low enough to see the entire screen on the Yoter C and 10 power is about useful maximum.
I think this is the Key, but I'll find out.
Does anybody happen to have a 59mm Rusan adapter? They seem to be out of stock.
Looks like many are running 1-10s and 2.5-20 nx8s with these. What else is everyone running? Anyone running larger fov 3-15s or 3-18s with this still able to see all of the menu and controls on the low end?
2.5x on my G3 is where it starts to encroach on the edges of the screen. I think you will still be able to see the batt level and compass icons at 3x. The controls pop up in the middle of the screen. You should still be able to see the full menu and zero coordinates at 4 or 5x, but I'm not sure. I'm switching to the NX8 this week. Maybe somebody else can confirm.
So to steer this thread in a different direction, I currently am waiting on a Halo X50 come in stock but the more I read the more I think this super Yoder c would be as good or better? Any with experience on both the x50 and Yoter C? Coming from a Mkiii 60 currently
Boy, talk about ripping the scab off and pouring salt in the wound.....
Thanks buddy, lol
Yea not meaning to actually hijack the thread per say lol sorry if it came across as such
I have a "history" with N-Vision and an XRF. Now I have a Yoter-C. That's all that needs to be said about it in this thread. PM me if you haven't already seen the other ones.
Up to about 4x, the Yoter/Vortex G3 keeps up with the XRF image wise out to 400yds or so. I had the Yoter side by side with XRF's and an X-50 two days after I got it, and looked through them side by side several times. Beyond 600yds, sometimes I saw animals first, sometimes the N-Visions did. The X's could USUALLY identify the animal first, although there were a few times I could.
I didn't crank up the digital zoom and compare them that way, so no comment other than the Yoter isn't disappointing.
The Yoter has 4 pallets, black, white, red, and color. The black and white function the same as the XRF, although there is no contrast adjustment, and it seems like sometimes the animals blend in with the yoter. The color pallet just looks like a rainbow to me, but to each their own.
The red pallet is something I really like that the XRF doesn't have. It takes the hottest objects on the screen and displays them in red. So your vegetation and everything is still black and white, but animals only a few pixels big light up like a Christmas bulb.
The Video recording and Wifi on the XRF works well. The Yoter only has a cord for video out, but I care more about hunting than posting video's, so I could care less.
The menus are both easy to navigate, although you need to enter the menu and scroll to digitally zoom the Yoter. It's only 1 press for the XRF.
The buttons are both easy to find with gloved hands, although you need to stretch for them with the Yoter. It's unavoidable with a clip on.
The Yoter doubles as a superb scanner. It's incredibly compact.
Battery life goes to the XRF. I never drained them past 2 bars. The battery compartment is huge though, and it apparently blocks the bolt throw on LH rifles. My first set of Shure fire cr123's went close to 4hrs in 20* weather in the Yoter before it shutdown.
The black reticle on black hot in the XRF is retarded. The adaptive reticle looks like a strobe light and switches colors too early when you try to hold over. They may have fixed it, idk. I shot close to a 1moa group @400yds 4 days after getting the Yoter and I would have done the same at 700yds if I could have found some shade to shoot from. I couldn't even aim the XRF at 400yds so if you're looking at this thread with intentions of shooting longer ranges, the Yoter wins at actually being a rifle scope, which at the end of the day is it's primary purpose.
I talked to several knowledgeable people at Bering the week of shot show and they shipped my scope the day after receiving the order. N-Vision blew the estimated lead time on repairing it, then closed up for Christmas before replacing it when it was returned to me still not working, then apparently waited 3 more weeks and went to Shot Show after I returned it for a refund after New Years.
There are plenty of people saying both companies have good customer service, so it's probably a toss up in that category. I'll admit to being a picky, impatient bastard. Shame on me for expecting a brand new $10k thermal to work or wanting to actually use it the same season I buy it.
The Super Yoter-C isn't the perfect answer either. It has it's share of idiosyncrasies. I'm still working through a few issues with it, but the potential is there.
If N-Vision gets the XRF issues fixed, it will be the nicer piece of equipment. I'm not sure it will be 2x the price nicer though.
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I'll try to get some pictures through the scopes sometime, but having a day scope with adjustable paralax ( some people call it focus) helps immensely on the upper mag levels. Plus the reticle doesn't shift if you don't get a perfect cheek weld. I think the G3 still looks better on the low end, but once you get up around 7x the pixels and even the icons get a "halo" around them and begin to look blurry. With the paralax set as low as it will go on the NX8, the pixels retain a sharp edge and the icons remain clear all the way past 12x. The image still gets pixelated, but at least it has defined edges and it's not a blurry glob.
I played around with 20x on a deer at 700yds last night and it's usable for aiming. It's not pretty, but you can aim using the holdovers in the Mil-C reticle if you desire.
Another thing I like. With the EBR-9, the center of the reticle really lights up and overpowers the tree when you turn the illumination on.
With the MIL-C, the center dot and all off the holds are illuminated the same brightness so they are easier to see. They are easy to see over 12x anyway on anything other than black hot.
I played around with 20x on a deer at 700yds last night and it's usable for aiming. It's not pretty, but you can aim using the holdovers in the Mil-C reticle if you desire.
Another thing I like. With the EBR-9, the center of the reticle really lights up and overpowers the tree when you turn the illumination on.
With the MIL-C, the center dot and all off the holds are illuminated the same brightness so they are easier to see. They are easy to see over 12x anyway on anything other than black hot.
My yoter c came in last night. Coming from a breach- holy crap this thing is amazing.
Does the clip on have a camera function? I swear it seems like one of the buttons is taking photos. I'm not seeing anything about photo or video in the manual.
Does the clip on have a camera function? I swear it seems like one of the buttons is taking photos. I'm not seeing anything about photo or video in the manual.
Not that I'm aware of. A short press of the rear button nuc's the background, whatever that means. I bet that's what you're seeing.
A long press with the lens cap closed nuc's the entire image.
Maybe somebody else can explain the difference?
Also, the buttons have different functions depending on if the clip-on adapter is installed vs the magnifier for scan mode.
Now that you say that, I remember there was 1 version of a nuc that needs the front cover closed and 1 version that didn't. You're probably right in what I was seeing. I'm still trying to figure out and memorize buttons/functions.
Sorry, other question I forgot: what's the verdict on using blue lock tite on the yoter c mount? I got the picatinny mount so the Bering habit of epoxying mounts on doesn't apply (my pic mount was loose in the bag). I know they say not to overtighten the mount screws but they don't say anything about thread locker in the manual. Blue lock tite always seems like a safe bet to me, but this is the most expensive single optic I've bought so I don't want to mess it up.
If it was mine, I would.
A. Ask Bering for the torque spec.
B. Put a dab of oil under the head of the screws to reduce the friction between the black oxide screw and the hard anodized mount.
C. Put a dab of blue loctite on the threads only.
I killed 5 more with my buddy last night in 15 mph winds. 1 was @402 yds diagonally downwind with a .5mil wind hold and I think we both hit him. I dropped another at 320yds crosswind with a full mil wind hold.
We got 3 more inside of 150yds and I missed 1 at 180 and my buddy missed another at 260.
Not a bad night.
I am new to thermal and never used one other than playing around with a few in a store. I have been following this thread and am considering the yoter-c. The pictures that people posted look amazing.
I have experience with nightvision and nightvision clip ons. So, will the turret adjustments work properly with the Yoter -C like it works with the pvs-30? From what I read in this form it needs to be zeroed to the rifle unlike the pvs 30. But once zeroed will dialing the scope still be accurate? Thanks for any information.
I have experience with nightvision and nightvision clip ons. So, will the turret adjustments work properly with the Yoter -C like it works with the pvs-30? From what I read in this form it needs to be zeroed to the rifle unlike the pvs 30. But once zeroed will dialing the scope still be accurate? Thanks for any information.
I shot the coyote last week at 402yds by dialing 1.2mils on the scope. I shot the one at 320 by holding .7mils. Those were with the day scope set on about 12x. As long as you do not use the digital zoom function of the Yoter-C, the dials and holds remain accurate.
If you digitally zoom a clip-on to 2x you need to double your dope. Multiply it by 4 for 4 times zoom. My zero changes by 4" and 8" when I digitally zoom the scope, so I don't use it that way.
Thanks for the clarification, exactly the information I was looking for.
You can also change this. You can adjust your POI for the different digital zoom levels so that it remains the same regardless of what digital zoom level it’s one.
Are you referring to using the zoom calibration function in the menu or setting different zero coordinates for each for each zoom level?
Chase,
You’re right that (on some thermals) making initial adjustments for each digital magnification level is important.
However, what is being discussed is that your normal day scope adjustments or holds for long shots will not be correct if your clip on is at any magnification other than 1. Your center crosshairs may be fine, but 2 mils is no longer 2 mils if your clip on is set to 2X or 4x magnification.
You’re right that (on some thermals) making initial adjustments for each digital magnification level is important.
However, what is being discussed is that your normal day scope adjustments or holds for long shots will not be correct if your clip on is at any magnification other than 1. Your center crosshairs may be fine, but 2 mils is no longer 2 mils if your clip on is set to 2X or 4x magnification.
Totally concur. It sounded to me though that he said his POI shifted 4” and 8” when he goes to 2x and 4x. If the image is calibrated at those digital magnifications, then the POI for where the crosshairs or center dot are shouldn’t change. Only your hold over value or what you dial. Which makes sense though. At 2x the image is twice as big so double your hold. At 4x etc.
However, if the image isn’t/hasn’t been calibrated at digital magnification levels then you’ll get a POI change at the crosshairs when you change digital magnification levels.
No, were talking about 2 separate things.
Holds and dials should double with 2x, but your zero should remain centered.
The first few minutes of this video on Bering's website illustrate the zoom calibration on the Yoter-C. Maybe I'm missing something, but it doesn't say anything about making separate adjustments for 2 or 4x. Only to center the two reticles over each other.
This is what my reticle does after I follow the instructors in the video.
And if I shoot 1 shot each on 1x, 2x, and 4x.
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Did you have a unified zero before you made that adjustment? It looks like your optical zero is left of the thermal target. If you shifted the digital image to your zero that’s going to carry over and be twice the shift at each digital zoom level. Your optical zero and thermal zero at 1x need to be the same. I.e. make your optical zero the center of your thermal target and then calibrate the image to your crosshairs.
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I’m out of town and don’t have mine in front of me…it’s been a bit since I made those adjustments but I thought you could also adjust it at 2x and 4x. I could definitely be mistaken because I did it several months ago. However having a unified zero prior to is critical. Maybe @jstokes1 can chime in if he has his available.
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Yes, the day scope is zero'd to the rifle. I'm 99% certain that when you move the white reticle to the center of your day reticle on 1x it makes the change on 2x and 4x at the same time.
I know that when you are in 2x or 4x and enter the zero menu, it's kicks you back to 1x for your adjustments.
Let's assume that my the zero on my day scope was off for a minute. The scopes were locked into a test sled that doesn't move for the video I made titled "Centered Zoom Calibration." Ignoring what the bullets might do because they are irrelevant at this point, my day scope reticle should not shift places on the target while zooming if that calibration worked correctly. Check out this next video. If I move that white cursor 2mils right and .4mils high, now my reticle stays centered while I zoom, like it's supposed to.
Also, please don't think I'm trying to argue. I've put some time into this and I can't figure it out and neither can Bering. I realize that it will work if I leave that white reticle offset, but it's a PIA and that's not the way it's supposed to be.
If you've got a solution, I'm all ears.
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