Tactical Match Scope/Optic Question

[Infidel45]

I couldn't decide what forum this should be in since it deals with Competition and Optics, so I decided to put it here instead. Sorry if this is the wrong forum.

I am entering my first Tactical/Precision Match later this summer which will have rifle targets from 25-715yds. I have a FFP standard mil-dot scope on my R700 AAC/SD. When UPS delivers-it will be in a XLR Element Chassis which has spaces for Picatinny rails on the sides and bottom.

Since I like holding over rather than dialing, I have my Rifle zero'd at 100 yards with the top-most Mil-Dot being my POA/Zero @ 100- leaving me 9 Mils of holdover left in the scope before I have to dial elevation.

My Question:

How do you experienced guys handle the <100 yard shots, esp the extreme close range like 25 yards? I was thinking of mounting a small/micro Holo sight on a 45 degree cant from one of the available pic rails on the hand guard for these type shots....am I over thinking this?

More I think about it, this is the forum for this question. Have the feeling the answer will be "find out how high your 100 yard zero POI hits on a target at 25 yards and dial". I know the answer to this for my rifle is 8". In my defense, I am trying to solve the problem without having to change my 100 yd POA on my scope. It works great going out from 100, but downside is that it leaves little hold-under for anything under 100...and it certainly doesn't have 8" worth at that distance.

Thanks...

 

[djskit]

I rarely hold over past 600 yards - I may be more open to it if I had a christmas tree type reticle like the GAP2/Vortex EBR2/GenIIXR - because the hold off for the wind would be too imprecise.

I've seen a share of guys at competitions with micro sights, but I've never attended a competition where I wish I had one. And yes, I dial for 25 yard shots - I've even done 15 yard hostage shots.

Your zeroing technique is novel - but my reticle has 8 mils of hash marks below the cross hairs - it sounds like you have a mil -dot reticle with only 4 up and down?

My advice would be to get a scope with a better reticle - the Bushnells with the GAP2 are fantastic competition scopes for the money and will give you maximum flexabilty for hold overs.

 

[Temp9]

You hit 8" high with a 100 yard zero? That doesn't sound right. The bullet should still be rising at distances below 100 yards. This means your POI should be low approximately an inch or less. The entire purpose of a 100 yard zero is to eliminate the need to dial down (ie. your bullet will always hit lower than your zero). That said, unless it's a very precise shot, I simply hold an inch or so above the target for close range. Study your ballistic curves a little bit and it will make more sense.

 

[Infidel45]

You hit 8" high with a 100 yard zero? That doesn't sound right. The bullet should still be rising at distances below 100 yards. This means your POI should be low approximately an inch or less. The entire purpose of a 100 yard zero is to eliminate the need to dial down (ie. your bullet will always hit lower than your zero). That said, unless it's a very precise shot, I simply hold an inch or so above the target for close range. Study your ballistic curves a little bit and it will make more sense.

Yeah--I mis-stated, I re-read my log and that 8" reference was actually the 1st CB shot at a 25 yard target after Laser Boresighting new scope install. The rifle was NOT zero'd yet at that point.

DJSkit- Attached pic shows my reticle. Red line points to my 100 Yd Zero POA.View attachment 38707


Thanks for the input...will put it into practice at next range session.

 

[djskit]

That's what I figured - Your thinking is on the right track and you are making good decisions with the gear you have, but seriously, get something with a better reticle. If not now, you will be cconvinced once your match is done.

 

[Infidel45]

Agreed....at this time, it came down to replacing the Hogue stock or the glass. Since i know i can hit steel at 1k with this scope and am intimately familiar with it, i decided to buy an XLR Element chassis and dump the Hogue. Got a Timney trigger too since it was going to be apart anyway. match isnt until August so maybe i can get new glass by then.

Thanks again for the replies guys..

 

[bunsen27]

You've come up with a pretty good idea on how to maximize your mil-dots for holdover. A lot of people are going to look at you like you're completely daft for not running a 100yd zero and dialing everything, but there is more than one way to skin this cat.

Whenever you start looking for a replacement scope consider the soon to be released EBR-2C Mil reticle in the Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50 FFP model. I too prefer holding off/over than dialing and have run the precursor (XLR) to the ERB-2C for nearly 2 years in comps and absolutely love it. I run a .260Rem and zero at 300yds which works out perfectly for this type or reticle. With a .308Win and this type of reticle I would stick with either a 100yd or 200yd zero. Good luck in your first competition!

 

[sled_mack]

I see three situations that could pose a challenge for your plan:

1. Some matches have stages that require the rifle to be rotated 90 degrees. This scrambles my brain with 100 yard zero, but I think it means you'll be holding almost at the edge of the visible range of your scope. I have to dial down 1.5 MILS (which is really horizontal change when the rifle is rotated) so for sure you will be above any of the markings in your scope.

2. Moving targets. Small movers require precise aiming. Holding elevation and lead (plus or minus wind) will be a big challenge.

3. "Know your scope" stages. These are paper targets, at some odd/random distance with only one visible aiming point. Distances are given to other target points in a variety of dimensions (ie. up 4.925 inches and left 18.45 mm). You must hit the other target points without being able to see them.

All of these can be overcome, but work on them before the match or you will be struggling to figure it out during the match.

 

[Infidel45]

A lot of people are going to look at you like you're completely daft for not running a 100yd zero and dialing everything, but there is more than one way to skin this cat----

Bunsen: Yeah, I know but my thinking (which works in practice as well) is that the further out I get towards about 600-700 yards, my POA on the scope, either above or below center, is nearer the horizontal reticle line. This makes holding wind easier with the dots right around my vertical POA. And I still haven't dialed...

First time I shot at 1000, I was holding 4 mils of elevation and 3 mils of wind (12-15mph from 4)...the target was out in No-Man's Land on the bottom left of the reticle..didn't like that. So I changed to this set-up. I will still have to dial before I get to 1k, but not as much. I like the EBR2 reticle since I am also familiar with the Horus reticles and like them a lot. Friend of mine has nothing but Horus reticles, even in his spotter. I think Viper will get my business as they have the best glass for the $$ and a warranty that can't be beat.

Sled: Thanks for the info-I need to seriously read-up on these comps. I see exactly what you mean re; the issues I would have with the scope set-up as is.

Have a safe weekend everybody...