Night Vision The Official: Steiner C35 Thermal Clip-on Review and User Thread!

TheHebrewHammer

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It clears an 5-20 ultra short on a 1.5 inch mount with plenty of room.
 

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Crewdog135

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Love the lever. Events have conspired to keep me from getting out with this little gem, but the focus has been my issue when playing with it in the basement. The lever will go a long way toward solving the problem. Any idea when you'll have them available? I'll be down for one.
 
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cake5150

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More thoughts on comparison to LWTS ?

More thoughts on comparison to LWTS ?
Sure thing. Please consider the fact that it has now been 4+ years since I've looked through the LWTS that I owned, so take the below with a grain of salt.
I loved my LWTS but felt the performance for IDing to be lacking compared to what I was expecting. It wasn't my first thermal by a long shot, but I was hoping for more in the details at distance. Perhaps that was just me having unrealistic expectations. The POI/POA was off by more than what I was expecting, so it went back to L3 since it needed a firmware update anyways. When it came back it was fine, but image was still not what I was hoping for under magnification. I sold it because I moved and could no longer hunt hogs. This image, to me (not side by side), is AT LEAST as good as the LWTS. It may even be a bit better, but that is going off of memory. It cost me a small fraction of what the LWTS did, so this device has wildly exceeded my expectations. I like the metal housing also, and the fact that the removable battery is rechargeable. The LWTS functioned better as a handheld than the C35 I think, but that is subjective. Both have intuitive controls so that is a wash for me. The pic and video capability of the C35 makes it a lot more fun to use since you can instantly capture what you are seeing. Both devices are wonderful, but so far I'm glad I've got the C35 and it does everything for me that the LWTS did except for the stand-alone gig that I rarely used anyways.
 
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shootingnut

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Not sure if this helps anyone, and I'm now realizing I should've also recorded the image itself, but here's a video shooting a hot rock at 940 yards at night through the c35. Was probably a 3 MOA sized target give or take, so not super impressive, but it was still so fun to make hits at all at night.



You can hear the report of the impact about a second after the shot.
 

deersniper

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    Sure thing. Please consider the fact that it has now been 4+ years since I've looked through the LWTS that I owned, so take the below with a grain of salt.
    I loved my LWTS but felt the performance for IDing to be lacking compared to what I was expecting. It wasn't my first thermal by a long shot, but I was hoping for more in the details at distance. Perhaps that was just me having unrealistic expectations. The POI/POA was off by more than what I was expecting, so it went back to L3 since it needed a firmware update anyways. When it came back it was fine, but image was still not what I was hoping for under magnification. I sold it because I moved and could no longer hunt hogs. This image, to me (not side by side), is AT LEAST as good as the LWTS. It may even be a bit better, but that is going off of memory. It cost me a small fraction of what the LWTS did, so this device has wildly exceeded my expectations. I like the metal housing also, and the fact that the removable battery is rechargeable. The LWTS functioned better as a handheld than the C35 I think, but that is subjective. Both have intuitive controls so that is a wash for me. The pic and video capability of the C35 makes it a lot more fun to use since you can instantly capture what you are seeing. Both devices are wonderful, but so far I'm glad I've got the C35 and it does everything for me that the LWTS did except for the stand-alone gig that I rarely used anyways.
    That would be stellar. My LWTS is one of my favorite thermals of all time.

    Had zero poi poa shift with mine and great image / detection
     

    cake5150

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    That would be stellar. My LWTS is one of my favorite thermals of all time.

    Had zero poi poa shift with mine and great image / detection
    Also, and probably one of the biggest things so far, I love the shit out of being able to adjust screen position and having X/Y coordinates for that position. LOVE IT. Offer these with a 75mm or 100mm lens, I'll buy that too.
     

    spamassassin

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    I finally got all the stuff I needed and a place to do the work so tonight I'll be attempting to get through the reticle (day optic is Steiner M7 4-28x) video with C35, UTM, PVS-27 and PVS-30 in a 1/3 moon setting over a 1000yrd flat range. I'll also be checking out the power of a Kiji up against the IR laser in my UTM. Gives me a reason to burn some .338LM, 6XC and .223rem ammo too. I expect it'll take a couple/few days for me to do the post processing on the raw footage.
     

    spamassassin

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    Grabbed one my second as well. I'll compare it to the pulsar fxg 50, voodoo, and yoter c
    Is it possible for you to get some through the reticle video footage (side shot/phone scope/tactacam/etc...)? With your footage and mine I could put some really good side by side comparison juiciness together. Direct comparisons with split screen would be helpful for new entrants into the NV/Thermal game.
     

    jstokes1

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    Is it possible for you to get some through the reticle video footage (side shot/phone scope/tactacam/etc...)? With your footage and mine I could put some really good side by side comparison juiciness together. Direct comparisons with split screen would be helpful for new entrants into the NV/Thermal game.
    Thats what I specialize in actually. For example:
     

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    TheHebrewHammer

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    1.5 inch mount, 4-28x56 Steiner M7Xi, plenty of clearance
     

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    Jlknights61

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    I mean like change from 50-100 yards or from 5-500. Basically I’m thinking nvg type focus where basically I only touch it when I want to focus on something close/ back to distant otherwise the focusing changes I made looking further away are working from walking distance too as far as I can see.

    On the thermal are you constantly fiddling with it to better resolve your image like when shifting from a 75yd target to a 100yd target or are you only making changes when zooming/reducing the day scope or making large changes in target distance?
     

    TheHorta

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    I mean like change from 50-100 yards or from 5-500. Basically I’m thinking nvg type focus where basically I only touch it when I want to focus on something close/ back to distant otherwise the focusing changes I made looking further away are working from walking distance too as far as I can see.

    On the thermal are you constantly fiddling with it to better resolve your image like when shifting from a 75yd target to a 100yd target or are you only making changes when zooming/reducing the day scope or making large changes in target distance?
    Focus at “infinity” and you’ll be good for anything 50-5,000,000,000 yards.
     

    blbennett1288

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    I plan on putting the C35 on my AI ATX. Currently I have a ATACR 7-35 on there and the lower end magnification of the scope will be at the upper end of usable magnification for the C35. I’ll test it out, but suspect I’ll have to switch to a lower magnification scope like the ATACR 4-16 or 4-20. No big deal, as I have a ATACR 4-16. But, has anyone tested these out with a higher magnification scope?

    Anyone using a Anker battery pack on these? Any recommendations?

    As far as a battery charger, any recommendations?
     

    roostercogburn98

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    Just ordered me one of these. You guys all seem fairly pleased with it so figured I’d try one.
     

    cake5150

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    Regarding need to focus, I've found a "happy spot" that gives excellent focus within my intended shooting envelope (50-500ish yd).

    I've also added a Vortex Defender E-10 cap to the ocular and O-44 to the objective lens. Beyond the obvious protection this provides to the lenses, there are also side benefits. The cap on the ocular provides a rudimentary eyepiece to at least partially shield your eye from ambient light and the objective cap gives an extended "lever" for focusing adjustment. I wrapped a double thick layer of gorilla tape around the objective lens with a bit of overlap. The spot where the overlap stops is placed where my focus "happy spot" is when indexed with the top center of the scope (lined up with the tip of the up button). This makes the objective cap tight enough on the lens assembly to function as a focus assist. I've got the caps rotated to where they open up at the 9 o'clock position. This allows easier access to the objective focus w/ support hand and still does not interfere with focus adjustment range down to a couple yards away. This setup seems to work nicely and then there isn't a cap dangling off of the end anymore.

    20220903_143339.jpg


    20220903_143352.jpg
     

    cake5150

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    Anecdotal notes from looking around tonight at 25-300 yd with my PVS-27 and C35 viewing through the same day optic (PST gen 2 3-15 FFP):

    1. The PVS-27 is still the king (of stuff I've looked through, at least) of identification and higher usable magnifications are possible with it. I was looking at the eyeball of a mallard a few minutes ago 75 yd away at 15x. It is not a bright night. This should be fairly obvious, the I^2 system has a much higher max resolution.

    2. While the C35 doesn't see the feathers on the mallards like my 27 does, it does see that it is a duck and not a goose. The details that this thermal is able to resolve still astonishes me, especially in the sub $10k price range.

    3. The C35 may be considered large by some, but it is lighter AND a lot smaller than a PVS-27 :)

    4. PVS-27s are pure sex :love:, prove me wrong.
     

    aslrookie

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    Anecdotal notes from looking around tonight at 25-300 yd with my PVS-27 and C35 viewing through the same day optic (PST gen 2 3-15 FFP):

    1. The PVS-27 is still the king (of stuff I've looked through, at least) of identification and higher usable magnifications are possible with it. I was looking at the eyeball of a mallard a few minutes ago 75 yd away at 15x. It is not a bright night. This should be fairly obvious, the I^2 system has a much higher max resolution.

    2. While the C35 doesn't see the feathers on the mallards like my 27 does, it does see that it is a duck and not a goose. The details that this thermal is able to resolve still astonishes me, especially in the sub $10k price range.

    3. The C35 may be considered large by some, but it is lighter AND a lot smaller than a PVS-27 :)

    4. PVS-27s are pure sex :love:, prove me wrong.
    So if you only had one clip on, 27 or C35?
     

    srt-4_uk

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    I sold my PVS27 shortly after using a thermal for the first time. For my use, thermal is significantly better. The PVS was alot clearer and was amazing at high mag but hunting with it at night required significant animal movement for detection.
     

    cake5150

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    So if you only had one clip on, 27 or C35?
    From a pure practical usefulness standpoint, I'd have to say the C35 would be the keeper. I'm keeping both, but for the guy looking for a very versatile AND extremely cost effective option, the C35 is one holy hell of a winner so far.

    That said, most of my night shooting is steel targets, not living things. My PVS-27 has numerous kills on it but almost all of them were located with thermal first. A cheapish thermal scanner, an SWR Radius, and the 27 makes for a pretty scary effective combination. You can basically close down a whole field.
     

    spamassassin

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    How often does one need to refocus the thermal clip on ?
    From my experience, you'll mess with the focus at really short distances but, it's not such a big deal as you start extending range. Likely this is the case because the percentage different that 450yrds is different to 350yrds versus the difference between 2yrds and 30yrds is pretty vast. I almost don't ever shoot anything closer than about 500yrds so it doesn't really affect me other than for using as a scanner.
    I plan on putting the C35 on my AI ATX. Currently I have a ATACR 7-35 on there and the lower end magnification of the scope will be at the upper end of usable magnification for the C35. I’ll test it out, but suspect I’ll have to switch to a lower magnification scope like the ATACR 4-16 or 4-20. No big deal, as I have a ATACR 4-16. But, has anyone tested these out with a higher magnification scope?

    Anyone using a Anker battery pack on these? Any recommendations?

    As far as a battery charger, any recommendations?
    Yes. I've run it up to 25x. It can be used but the amount of pixelation is severe so the target size and target lethal zone has to be pretty large. I would call ~15x really the upper end of the very useful range.

    As far as remote battery, that's pretty much what I do anyway. My company had a bunch of 4k milliamp hour swag lithium ion batteries that they no longer give away so I just asked Marketing for some and they gave me a bigass box full of them. Each one gives me ~3.5hrs of additional juice. I velcro them to the side of the thermal.

    Battery charger, the one that comes with the C35 is garbage. Xtar chargers are nice. If you go to a vape shop they'll usually have higher end chargers there and know which are the best. I stopped vaping years back but still like my Xtar charger.

    Anecdotal notes from looking around tonight at 25-300 yd with my PVS-27 and C35 viewing through the same day optic (PST gen 2 3-15 FFP):

    1. The PVS-27 is still the king (of stuff I've looked through, at least) of identification and higher usable magnifications are possible with it. I was looking at the eyeball of a mallard a few minutes ago 75 yd away at 15x. It is not a bright night. This should be fairly obvious, the I^2 system has a much higher max resolution.

    2. While the C35 doesn't see the feathers on the mallards like my 27 does, it does see that it is a duck and not a goose. The details that this thermal is able to resolve still astonishes me, especially in the sub $10k price range.

    3. The C35 may be considered large by some, but it is lighter AND a lot smaller than a PVS-27 :)

    4. PVS-27s are pure sex :love:, prove me wrong.
    I put my PVS-27 and PVS-30 up against the C35 Friday night. Much was not visible to the thermal that was to the NV. The 27 and 30 were almost identical performance but I could see some things with the 27 that I couldn't make out with the 30 without active illumination. I prefer to have all 3.
     

    roostercogburn98

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    As far as remote battery, that's pretty much what I do anyway. My company had a bunch of 4k milliamp hour swag lithium ion batteries that they no longer give away so I just asked Marketing for some and they gave me a bigass box full of them. Each one gives me ~3.5hrs of additional juice. I velcro them to the side of the thermal.
    What’s the best place to find extra batteries and cable to run battery pack? I have looked online some, but need to do some more digging. Just getting prepared and waiting for my unit to show up. Thanks
     

    spamassassin

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    What’s the best place to find extra batteries and cable to run battery pack? I have looked online some, but need to do some more digging. Just getting prepared and waiting for my unit to show up. Thanks
    I'm right now making an M-Lok mount for 4k mAh skinny flat battery packs. I've been velcro'ing to the side of the C35 but I want to move that to the left side rail. There are battery packs shaped like a flashlight and at least one company makes mounts for those which you could put opposite an actual flashlight.
     
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    cake5150

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    I'm right now making an M-Lok mount for 4k mAh skinny flat battery packs. I've been velcro'ing to the side of the C35 but I want to move that to the left side rail. There are battery packs shaped like a flashlight and at least one company makes mounts for those which you could put opposite an actual flashlight.
    I've been looking around on Amazon for an appropriately-sized battery pack to use w/ these. Some of the ones w/ a built in USB-C cable look promising, but the only experience I have w/ battery packs is the one I keep in my car for jump starting (works great, but way too big). We did pick up a few extra Fitorch protected 18650 flat top batteries from Battery Junction, but those are only ~2600 mAh. They seem to work well so far but obviously won't have very long legs. Any additional thoughts/recommendations regarding a power bank that I can easily strap to the C35 would surely be welcomed. 4-10k mAh would be preferable, it just needs to be small.
     

    cake5150

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    Anecdotal notes from comparison w/ an older AN/PAS-13B(V)3:
    I got together w/ some friends a bit ago and compared NV/thermal stuff non-scientifically w/ the help of beer and good weather :cool: So the old PAS-13BV3 has some weaknesses (holy shit size for small arms, battery, etc), but damn the pure optical horsepower of that gigantic piece of germanium out front certainly pays dividends. The C35 absolutely has a MUCH smoother image, but ~10x optical magnification on the 13B is pretty helpful. The C35 definitely dealt w/ the campfire 250 yd away a lot better than the 13 did. I'd hope so, since this 13 was a little over 17 years old. The convenience of the C35 is amazing, but variable OPTICAL magnification on a thermal is definitely... awesome. Also, the detection range of that older thermal was pretty incredible. This makes me further wonder what in the actual fuck our forces have access to now.
     

    Eliteuas

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    Anecdotal notes from comparison w/ an older AN/PAS-13B(V)3:
    I got together w/ some friends a bit ago and compared NV/thermal stuff non-scientifically w/ the help of beer and good weather :cool: So the old PAS-13BV3 has some weaknesses (holy shit size for small arms, battery, etc), but damn the pure optical horsepower of that gigantic piece of germanium out front certainly pays dividends. The C35 absolutely has a MUCH smoother image, but ~10x optical magnification on the 13B is pretty helpful. The C35 definitely dealt w/ the campfire 250 yd away a lot better than the 13 did. I'd hope so, since this 13 was a little over 17 years old. The convenience of the C35 is amazing, but variable OPTICAL magnification on a thermal is definitely... awesome. Also, the detection range of that older thermal was pretty incredible. This makes me further wonder what in the actual fuck our forces have access to now.
    You mean other then recon V and Flir hiss/ INOD?
     

    spamassassin

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    What’s the best place to find extra batteries and cable to run battery pack? I have looked online some, but need to do some more digging. Just getting prepared and waiting for my unit to show up. Thanks
    Any additional thoughts/recommendations regarding a power bank that I can easily strap to the C35 would surely be welcomed. 4-10k mAh would be preferable, it just needs to be small.
    are the basis of the ones I'm using. My company had hundreds of these done up with our logo. They velcro very nicely to the side of a C35. There are more power dense models but I settled on these largely because they fit the physical dimensions, were free to me and they don't take very long to charge. Should be able to get >4hrs from one. If you want a ton more power density then is an option but they take forever to charge.

    This makes me further wonder what in the actual fuck our forces have access to now.
    I just saw a new 1024 resolution thermal core released to the civilian world in a form factor that would allow it to be used in weapon mounted applications. I would be very much surprised if the tier 3 guys were being issued anything more interesting than a 640 but I would also be surprised if somewhere in the land of very secretive squirrels someone isn't using a 1024 core on a weapon mounted device. That said, iRay has a 1280x1024 core that's not been put in their weapon mounted stuff as far as I can tell but the fact that it exists means there's 720p level HD resolution already being made in China which would suggest that full 1080p HD (1920) resolution either will exist or already exists in a weapon sight even if it's only on someone's lab workbench just yet.
     
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    jwramp

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