Maggie’s The Welding and Metalworking Thread

[hukset402]

How are the 255's working out for you in the school? Have one in my home shop and been a very good welder so far and really like the pulse function. The XR Aluma Pro gun does a nice job on aluminum.

They are awesome. We got them when they forst came out and they had some parts issued but miller resolved them very quickly. I tried to blow one up and it didn't get it done. High school kids are experts in breaking stuff and so far they have held up pretty good. They pulse gmaw like a champ. Stick is a bit tricky at times. I like to hold a long arc length when I light uo to let everything warm up. The machine does not want to maintain a very long ark before either cuts out for saftey.

I'd love one at home for the versatility.

 

[hukset402]

This gate is about as big of a project as we can get done in our little shop. Turned out pretty good. Impressed this kid has over 30 hours in to it. Almost all of them are after school hours.not all of the younger generation is lazy.

 

[kindabitey]

Little help, please.
So, the aluminum grate project has gone sideways. After welding, they twisted up like a potato chip. We attempted to heat straighten, but that didn't phase it in the least,
Anybody got any ideas how to straighten 3/8" 6061 flat bar after welding?

 

[ZiaHunter]

Little help, please.
So, the aluminum grate project has gone sideways. After welding, they twisted up like a potato chip. We attempted to heat straighten, but that didn't phase it in the least,
Anybody got any ideas how to straighten 3/8" 6061 flat bar after welding?

send pictures

 

[Hobo Hilton]

Little help, please.
So, the aluminum grate project has gone sideways. After welding, they twisted up like a potato chip. We attempted to heat straighten, but that didn't phase it in the least,
Anybody got any ideas how to straighten 3/8" 6061 flat bar after welding?

Earlier you said they got welded on one side then sent to finish.
Equal heat on both sides eliminates the stress while it cools off.
Spacers tacked in should hold things fairly straight. May just need spacers welded in.
Photos ?

 

[mj1995]

Clamp it all down with c clamps to a solid steel table, heat the whole thing up and let it cool down with the clamps in place. Might have to do it a couple times. But really it comes down to the method of welding and equal heat placement when initially building it like hobo mentioned.

 

[n2ishun]

Little help, please.
So, the aluminum grate project has gone sideways. After welding, they twisted up like a potato chip. We attempted to heat straighten, but that didn't phase it in the least,
Anybody got any ideas how to straighten 3/8" 6061 flat bar after welding?

Look around for a heat treating shop near you.
They shouldn't have any trouble doing a thermo cycle run on it and it should stress relieve the thing.
Doesn't cost anything to make a call.....well, it's part of your phone plan anyway.

OBTW, you have to heat the whole thing at once, not sections at a time because that's how you got in this mess in the first place.
It has to cool equally as well, last I heard they were still burying it in some special sand....but what the fuck do I know anyway ?

Big oven, big cooling area.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

I'll add that 'the special sand' can also be replaced/substituted by vermiculite, if you've no other easy-access options.

I used to use that years ago, after spray-welding.

 

[mj1995]

Could also check with engine shops that have the proper way of welding cast iron blocks. They'll have a big oven that they put the blocks into and it heats up and then cools down gradually over 24hrs. Could be a good option as well.

 

[kindabitey]

Earlier you said they got welded on one side then sent to finish.
Equal heat on both sides eliminates the stress while it cools off.
Spacers tacked in should hold things fairly straight. May just need spacers welded in.
Photos ?

send pictures

It’s sitting on some channel to provide a flat surface. Welded on one side then flipped to weld opposite side. After the first one, I did clamp the one corner to put a counter bend to try that, but it came out the same. Pretty much looks like a potato chip

 

[mtrmn]

It’s sitting on some channel to provide a flat surface. Welded on one side then flipped to weld opposite side. After the first one, I did clamp the one corner to put a counter bend to try that, but it came out the same. Pretty much looks like a potato chip View attachment 8384790View attachment 8384791

I'm not a welder but I've done some here and there. I worked with a welder offshore who told me how he used to get those ALUMINUM flatbed 18 wheeler trailers to curve upward in the middle so that when you load them they will flatten out. Weld a single bead starting in the middle and working out to both ends--with the trailer flipped upside down-IIRC. I may not be telling this correctly at all...

Later in life, I built a large playground type swingset out of pipe in my shop on jackstands. Of course all the welding of legs, gussets and swing hangers was on just one side of the main crossmember. It looked like a longbow when I got through and nothing I tried along the way would stop the pull. Then I remembered what that welder had told me. I started in the middle of the pipe on the side opposite of all the other welding (the top) and welded a rod-length (stick welding) in one direction, then a rod length in the other direction towards the outer ends. It started to straighten a bit, enough that I had to move the jackstands holding the legs a little bit at a time. I welded until the pipe was back straight as an arrow and it has remained so to this day.

All this to say, if you weld a stringer bead along the high side of the bend starting in the middle, it may pull back straight. Then grind the stringer bead down smooth if you want. Again, I'm not a welder but it worked for me.

 

[hlee]

It’s sitting on some channel to provide a flat surface. Welded on one side then flipped to weld opposite side. After the first one, I did clamp the one corner to put a counter bend to try that, but it came out the same. Pretty much looks like a potato chip View attachment 8384790View attachment 8384791

If you redo it, note how much bow you got while welding the first piece. Then, use shims and clamps to induce that much opposing bow in the unwelded pieces. Once welded, they should be flat.

Start at 5.34 in the video below for a better description than I can give…

 

[Hobo Hilton]

My suggestion is not cost effective.

Block up the frame on level support blocks. Hook up a stress relief machine and heat it to the point of having the stress relieved. Once level, cover it with blankets and allow it to cool slowly. This is just a brief on what is "standard for the industry".

Stress Relieving Processes for Aluminum Alloys

Informed manufacturers understand the benefit of knowing about the full variety of stress relieving processes available for aluminum alloys. Having a stable, durable aluminum product able to withstand stresses is a requirement no matter what industry is being discussed. That’s why it’s helpful...

clintonaluminum.com

 

[kindabitey]

All of those suggestions will work, with steel. If it were built out of steel, it would be easy as pie to heat straighten it. That was something I got pretty good at at some previous jobs where heat distortion was a problem with thinner materials (under 1/2").
The main issue is the rules for steel fab don't apply to 6xxx alloy aluminum.
So what I'll try next is shorter sections, somewhere around 24" to see how that works. I built a test piece that was 22" to ship to the boss's house
for a test fit, and it was flat as a pancake.
The bad thing is, the house is on Sint Maarten and I can't just "run down there and test a full size piece.

ETA: I've gotten to the point where I'm not a fan of welding Aluminum, but that's all we use here

 

[n2ishun]

Somehow, I knew the price of a phone call would be way too high.

 

[mtrmn]

All of those suggestions will work, with steel. If it were built out of steel, it would be easy as pie to heat straighten it. That was something I got pretty good at at some previous jobs where heat distortion was a problem with thinner materials (under 1/2").
The main issue is the rules for steel fab don't apply to 6xxx alloy aluminum.
So what I'll try next is shorter sections, somewhere around 24" to see how that works. I built a test piece that was 22" to ship to the boss's house
for a test fit, and it was flat as a pancake.
The bad thing is, the house is on Sint Maarten and I can't just "run down there and test a full size piece.

ETA: I've gotten to the point where I'm not a fan of welding Aluminum, but that's all we use here

I edited my tale above to include the fact that the trailers are aluminum

 

[hukset402]

Can you get it all clamped flat and add use an angle or another channel to hold it flat? I'm guessing there is enough stress built up it will still bow. Saw it apart and weld it back together flat ish? Aluminum can be a bitch some times. Specialy long sections.

 

[kindabitey]

I edited my tale above to include the fact that the trailers are aluminum

How you described the process is pretty close. I talked to my Lincoln Electric rep. about this. One of his accts. is a trailer manufacturer in SW Virginia that does aluminum flat trailers. Apparently there's a lot of pre-planning/ engineering that goes into those that's beyond my capabilities. And just for the record the Lincoln rep. majored in Mech. engineering and minored in Metallurgy, and grew up in the welding consultation business.
I did try to run a weld on the opposite side of the curve, but it's 3/8" wide, so it was pretty tricky to keep it from rolling off. Even then, it didn't have much effect.
I guess the next step is to get a 2" sheet 48x96 and cut it out on the waterjet.

 

[kindabitey]

Can you get it all clamped flat and add use an angle or another channel to hold it flat? I'm guessing there is enough stress built up it will still bow. Saw it apart and weld it back together flat ish? Aluminum can be a bitch some times. Specialy long sections.

I tried three different methods, and they all came out the same.

 

[n2ishun]

It's *springy* so you can't simply clamp it flat and hope for whatever magic to occur.
You have to remove the *springy* from it (stress relief).

If you're going to try something that has little chance of working you have to overcompensate (like with your penis) by bowing it in the opposite direction so when you release it it should spring back to some happy medium ground.
That's why nothing except a full heat cycling will work.....because the method you're using requires guessing at where the happy medium falls and it never falls right.

 

[Night Assassin]

Just now saw this thread!
Here is some of the fun I’ve had in the last few years. Had a plasma table for a while and made some cool things.
Kid talked me into building a Rat rod.
I think it turned out ok for never leaving my garage for the build.

 

[mtrmn]

"I guess the next step is to get a 2" sheet 48x96 and cut it out on the waterjet"

That sounds very expensive. If all else fails, how about a hydraulic press?

 

[kindabitey]

"I guess the next step is to get a 2" sheet 48x96 and cut it out on the waterjet"

That sounds very expensive. If all else fails, how about a hydraulic press?

We don’t have a press that could do that. Today we tried blocking it up and ran a forklift over one corner, and it popped back to the same spot
We have a waterjet capable of cutting up to 6”. The plate will be the spendy part.

 

[RPN]

Try making a press out of a 3' length of heavy I beam, a bottle jack and a couple of strongbacks. Shouldn't cost much, and cheaper than cutting from plate, that's for sure.

 

[kindabitey]

Try making a press out of a 3' length of heavy I beam, a bottle jack and a couple of strongbacks. Shouldn't cost much, and cheaper than cutting from plate, that's for sure.

We spend money like drunken sailors here, so cost isn't the issue. The main reason I don't want to cut them is the 13 hours of cut time.

 

[Quicksilver338]

Some stainless exhaust for the project truck

 

[Quicksilver338]

Aluminum cold pipe from the turbo to the carb.

 

[JJMoody]

You really could’ve saved some time….

 

[Quicksilver338]

You really could’ve saved some time….

Well now you show me

 

[iceng]

No intercooler ?

 

[hukset402]

No intercooler ?

In the back seat with the beer.

 

[iceng]

Kinda walked into that one, didnt I.
Nice work.

 

[Quicksilver338]

No intercooler ?

Blow through carb, so you can get away with a lot more than fuel injection. The atomization of the air/fuel through the venturis actually reduces temperatures naturally so for my power goals I can get by without an intercooler, and if I want more then race gas is an option for those moments.

 

[iceng]

My guess was methanol on race day. But didnt know about the carb thing. Thanks !

 

[fpgt72]

If you redo it, note how much bow you got while welding the first piece. Then, use shims and clamps to induce that much opposing bow in the unwelded pieces. Once welded, they should be flat.

Start at 5.34 in the video below for a better description than I can give…

That guy is the Norm Abram of metal. I have bought a couple of his tools, and to tell the truth they are wasted on a guy like me.

When we built our house some friend of ours said don't expect Norm Abram and Bob Villa to build your house. It will define half assed. Anyone that has lived in a house knows that is true. It is done fast, but not the way it really should be done....oh it will pass, but it is not 10/10.

I think welders are the same thing. Close enough. If you want that level of perfection you need to learn how to do it yourself, if you need to rely on someone else it will not be done "right".

 

[Kinetic Moose]

another day of fun

 

[ZiaHunter]

That guy is the Norm Abram of metal. I have bought a couple of his tools, and to tell the truth they are wasted on a guy like me.

When we built our house some friend of ours said don't expect Norm Abram and Bob Villa to build your house. It will define half assed. Anyone that has lived in a house knows that is true. It is done fast, but not the way it really should be done....oh it will pass, but it is not 10/10.

I think welders are the same thing. Close enough. If you want that level of perfection you need to learn how to do it yourself, if you need to rely on someone else it will not be done "right".

Fireball cast iron squares are the absolute tits for fit up.

 

[LeftyJason]

That guy is the Norm Abram of metal. I have bought a couple of his tools, and to tell the truth they are wasted on a guy like me.

When we built our house some friend of ours said don't expect Norm Abram and Bob Villa to build your house. It will define half assed. Anyone that has lived in a house knows that is true. It is done fast, but not the way it really should be done....oh it will pass, but it is not 10/10.

I think welders are the same thing. Close enough. If you want that level of perfection you need to learn how to do it yourself, if you need to rely on someone else it will not be done "right".

If he is the Norm Abram of metal then who is Ron Covell?

https://youtube.com/@RonCovell?si=VctXPU1nWCy0ft0y

 

[kindabitey]

Hey, did you guys know that while heating 6061 aluminum, it will go from a solid bar on the work table to a liquid on the floor in about .2 seconds without warning
Well, now you do.

 

[Makinchips208]

Hey, did you guys know that while heating 6061 aluminum, it will go from a solid bar on the work table to a liquid on the floor in about .2 seconds without warning
Well, know you do

If you soot aluminum up with candle soot, then heat it with your torch, as soon as the soot disappears you are like just short of melting.
It’s red neck but it works.

At that point it can be bent real easy.

Maybe an experts can chime in on improvements to this method?

 

[kindabitey]

@Makinchips208 Fortunately it was a scrap piece. Never heard using soot, I'll have to give it a try.

 

[ZiaHunter]

Good article

How to heat aluminum to avoid cracking after bending

High-temper aluminum can crack during bending, so press brake operators might need to anneal it. Aluminum doesn’t change color when heated. If a metal fabrication shop doesn’t have a temperature gun, watch the soot.

www.thefabricator.com

 

[sirhrmechanic]

This should be printable….

You’re welcome!!

Sirhr

 

[sirhrmechanic]

If you soot aluminum up with candle soot, then heat it with your torch, as soon as the soot disappears you are like just short of melting.
It’s red neck but it works.

At that point it can be bent real easy.

Maybe an experts can chime in on improvements to this method?

Rub a bar of soap on it. When soap turns black, the aluminum is annealed.

Works like a charm. Any bar soap seems to work. I keep chunks of hotel soap around for annealing and because you can scrape wood screws across it and it makes them go in slick as snot!

Sirhr

 

[Quicksilver338]

Tempilaq could work as well for heating aluminum. Same stuff you use to check temp annealing brass. They sell it in different temperatures so I’m sure there’s one that will work.

 

[iceng]

This should be printable….

You’re welcome!!

View attachment 8387841

Sirhr

I have an A3 laminated poster with metric->imperial conversions with number, letter and fractions also on it.. SUPER convenient to pick the right size drill. I also have that chart printed off (one you linked), but a colour one, but basically identical.

 

[iceng]

Found it.

 

[n2ishun]

This should be printable….

You’re welcome!!

View attachment 8387841

Sirhr

What ?

Whitworth and British pipe but no Acme thread ?
Useless I tell ya.

It's like owning a 15/64 wrench, a drag link socket, and a cotter pin extractor all in one !

BTW, the metric sizes say "size inch" it should say "size mm".
Ya feel me?

 

[rtB]

BTW, the metric sizes say "size inch" it should say "size mm".

Merica - Fuck yeah

 

[LeftyJason]

Found it.
View attachment 8388499

I need something like that for the garage. Needs whole metric sizes.

Mostly I use FSWizard app.

Triangle Calc goes out to 5 decimel places. I'm a cnc grinder at work. Work head is rotatable in 0.00005 degree resolution.