I have been talking to a couple buddies that shoot precision rifles and I expressed that I couldn't wait for my oldest daughter to shoot matches with me. I don't get hyper competitive in regards to some on here and a day at a match for daddy/daughter time would be awesome. I will probably never have the ability to place in the top 50% at say the GAP grind but I like it so I keep plugging away trying to get better and feel that this could be great building for my daughter who absolutely loves shooting .22 lr to show her to put in the work and you always get better. I was really set on getting another rifle in 6.5 creedmoor so my 9 year old daughter could shoot with me and I could be her wind dummy but she is recoil sensitive and doesn't want to shoot it anymore (after maybe 3 shots). I have read a lot about recoil sensitivity for kids and the first stated FACT is don't push them into a rifle they are not ready for or you may ruin them from shooting all together. Fast forward a couple weeks and I have a buddy that has a AR platform chambered in 6.8 spc that he let her shoot to see if she could deer hunt this year and she had no problems with the 6.8. She is comfortable first off with a AR due to the fact I started her on AR "type" with the Mossberg 715 .22lr and I think this helped a great deal and then the AR's seem to not have as much recoil. So I looked at the 6.5 Grendel and there are guys swearing they are doing 1000 yds shots on 12" steel with Grendel. Its hard with these newish calibers to figure out myth, propaganda, and the truth. If I invest in a Grendel for her, do you all think that she may be able to shoot out to say 200-1000 yds in team matches with me or just wait until she isn't recoil sensitive on my 6.5 creedmoor?
- Thread starter gunn317
- Start date
A 6.5 Grendel is so-so at 600, not as much at 1000. I was scoring for a gentleman shooting a 6.5 Grendel at a 600 yard F class match last month. He had a tough time. Not sure what weight bullet he was shooting - I'd guess some of the lighter weights judging by how much the wind hit him. Compared to a 6BR or a 6XC, it's at a disadvantage even with the proper ammo.
I would consider a .223. It won't do as well as the Grendel, but it will get to 600 respectably and do it shooting bullets that weigh 77 grains instead of 120 and at a slightly lower velocity. At 2-300 a .223 is more than enough.
Keep in mind that recoil is basically muzzle velocity x bullet weight if you assume the rifle is the same. It's slightly more complicated than that in actuality, but that gets you a good swag at it.
I would consider a .223. It won't do as well as the Grendel, but it will get to 600 respectably and do it shooting bullets that weigh 77 grains instead of 120 and at a slightly lower velocity. At 2-300 a .223 is more than enough.
Keep in mind that recoil is basically muzzle velocity x bullet weight if you assume the rifle is the same. It's slightly more complicated than that in actuality, but that gets you a good swag at it.
6mm rat
I regularly shoot a 6.5 Grendel on an AR platform in tactical competitions to 600 yards. If I do my part it will shoot MOA all the way out. I shoot a 123gr AMAX out of a 20" Alexander Arms barrel. My wife shoots it without any recoil issues.
Bob
Bob
I have seen a couple guys at matches shooting .223 but wasn't sure if it would be enough to shoot the longer ranges. In the case a .223 would be enough for her hell I will build myself a Mk 12 that I have been wanting to build myself and have her shoot that.
do a braked 6mm short action chambering (6XC, 6 creed, 243) and there is almost no recoil and they will certainly be effective in 1000 yard competitions and be much better in the wind than a grendel.
Grendel with a Brake or a Can and she will have a blast. My shooting partner runs a Grendel and I a 308 and he gives up very little to my 178 A-maxs at 1K.
You can always shoot reduced loads in a 6mm/6.5mm standard case size to make it recoil like a grendel and then work up as she gets used to recoil. You can't super charge a grendel and make it shoot like a 243 or similar.
Thanks for the input. I am waiting for some money to come in and I am going to brake my creedmoor and see is she will shoot it then. Hate to do it though since I just got the thing durakoted though. I wanted to put in for a can but I should probably get all the stuff I need for reloading before a can. Plus hate to have 1k out there just sitting around waiting for a tax stamp.
Some big determining factors for you in this quest will be:
* Need for factory ammo
* How competitive you want to be.
You said it was more about daddy/daughter time, so winning doesn't mean the same to you as the single guy who goes home and reloads his wildcat, with entire rooms filled with tumblers, cutters, benches, presses, bins full of brass, etc.
If the matches are in South Carolina, you have thicker air, humidity, and more barometric pressure. If you get a 22" Grendel with a high end barrel, pushing the 123gr at 2600fps, you will have ~11 Mils of drop at 1000yds, and 2.8 mils of wind drift for 10mph full value. You are still well above supersonic at 1000yds, with 1215fps speed.
While not competitive against the 6mm's and faster 6.5's for X-ring count, your daughter will learn and see the wind effects clearly, so basically like the same advice many give to new long-range shooters by starting on the .308 so you aren't spoiled.
There is video of guys shooting 12" plates at 1100yds and farther with the Grendel, but I believe it is well above sea level. I have shot my 16" out to 1200yds with the factory 123gr A-MAX on a dare, and it surprised the crap out of me because I was POA/POI as fast as I could pull the trigger using 14.4 mils of elevation. This was this summer at 80 degrees F, and 4400ft above seal level, so the conditions were much more in my favor.
I think the Grendel is an excellent choice for kids, because you can blast away with factory ammo, and they are not recoil-sensitive to it. Put a brake on it, and she will be able to spot her own rounds.
* Need for factory ammo
* How competitive you want to be.
You said it was more about daddy/daughter time, so winning doesn't mean the same to you as the single guy who goes home and reloads his wildcat, with entire rooms filled with tumblers, cutters, benches, presses, bins full of brass, etc.
If the matches are in South Carolina, you have thicker air, humidity, and more barometric pressure. If you get a 22" Grendel with a high end barrel, pushing the 123gr at 2600fps, you will have ~11 Mils of drop at 1000yds, and 2.8 mils of wind drift for 10mph full value. You are still well above supersonic at 1000yds, with 1215fps speed.
While not competitive against the 6mm's and faster 6.5's for X-ring count, your daughter will learn and see the wind effects clearly, so basically like the same advice many give to new long-range shooters by starting on the .308 so you aren't spoiled.
There is video of guys shooting 12" plates at 1100yds and farther with the Grendel, but I believe it is well above sea level. I have shot my 16" out to 1200yds with the factory 123gr A-MAX on a dare, and it surprised the crap out of me because I was POA/POI as fast as I could pull the trigger using 14.4 mils of elevation. This was this summer at 80 degrees F, and 4400ft above seal level, so the conditions were much more in my favor.
I think the Grendel is an excellent choice for kids, because you can blast away with factory ammo, and they are not recoil-sensitive to it. Put a brake on it, and she will be able to spot her own rounds.
I definitely appreciate the advice, I knew if I came here I would get solid go or no go types of feedback. This was exactly what I was looking for in confirmation
You can definitely shoot a .223 at 600 with 77 grain mag length ammo. Better yet are 80's single fed. High Power shooters do it all the time. But... you get an education in wind. It's not "holy crap I can't keep on the target" wind, but you'll know the wind is there and cannot ignore it. When you're learning, that's not a bad thing. At 1000, it gets tricky. But then, any light kicker is going to be tricky at 1000.
I like this idea. I shoot a 6XC rifle in LR matches, and in my area we have monthly "tactical" style matches at a local range where we max out at 530 yards. For those shorter range matches I run a reduced speed load and cheaper bullets (Hornady 105s vs my normal 105 Hybrids) to save a little money and barrel wear. The amount of recoil with my slower loads (the 105 Hornadys at about 2900 fps) isn't a whole lot more than the .223AI rifle I had a few years ago (my 6XC is a bit heavier too, which helps out) and I don't even have a brake on it.
As the guy I'm quoting mentioned, it's easy to reduce the load a bit to get her used to recoil and shooting matches, then as she gets used to it you can always up the load a bit to shoot further. Also, you mention she's used to an AR type platform, so perhaps dropping a bolt gun into an AR-style chassis could bridge the gap there. As long as the weight of the package isn't too much for her now I think it's the best bet for both the short term and going forward.
With a good barrel and trigger, the Grendel is a great round. Like others said, recoil is not an issue with a good brake or can. My 8 yr old grandson loves mine!
Not to bad mouth grendels but ive gone through two barrels and everything from 95 - 123gr bullets and found nothing that wiuld shoot consistantly moa. I've put it asside and I gave up. Fyi with 24" barrel I barely got 2600fps with 123. I did try to shoot 1000 and had a hard time calling hits on steel. I would not do a grendel
You must of had some shitty barrels or something with your reloading was off because I've had nothing but submoa.
What kind of barrels? I have shot 1 group over moa all the rest have been sub moa or better. I only have 2-300 rounds through mine but have experienced the opposite of what you did. Haven't taken it to 1000 yet but I have 2 rabbits one at 400+and the other at 600+. Both on the second shot no spotter, the furthest I had gone before that was 200 on paper. Needless to say I love my Grendel I have a Precision Firearms Neptune 5 with a 24" Bartlein barrel. I want a second Grendel and I was either gunna do another Precision Firearms or a JP as I keep hearing they are great as well. The second one will be a shorter barrel set up. Prob 18 or 20" haven't decided.
These were barrels from black hole weaponry. Barrels were fine as far as I could tell. I even changed uppers bolts and gas blocks and never was there improvement. My smith had one from les baer and he had no better results so he sold it. Maybe we expected too much I don't know but the 6.5 is not for me.
The only thing I could do different is the brass I used hornady cause I couldn't get alexander arms. Other than that I have tried everything from primers powder bullets trimming necks used different dies
Huh. Precision Firearms has a 1/2 moa guarantee with match ammo. And they sell les Baer also, I went with the Bartlein option under the owners advice Mark H.
To the op call Precision they produce amazing rifles with a accuracy guarantee. I would ask for Mark 240-217-6875
Ok what loads are you guys using
Go brows through the 6.5 Grendel forum. Lots of good info and people with good information.
Also LRRPF52 is a great source for Grendel info and is a very credible source, I have been following him for a while and he is always helpful and honest without feeding you forum BS. I would trust what info he has.
Also LRRPF52 is a great source for Grendel info and is a very credible source, I have been following him for a while and he is always helpful and honest without feeding you forum BS. I would trust what info he has.
Factory Hornady 123amax mostly, 2 boxes of wolf 120 gr, some re loads with Varget, lapua brass, CCI Br primers. just later testing for pressure signs. I plan to work up a specific load to use. I also have TAC, VV-n140, cfe223, and ar comp. that I haven't used in it yet. But it has been excellent with anything I have fed it. That is why I am saying I had the exact opposite results. My only experience with the Grendel is the one I have but man o man it has made me a believer. I love it.
I'm currently selling my precision firearms barrel...its a lilja 1/8 twist....switching it out with a little lighter profile as its a heavy bull barrel. I was getting 1/2 moa with 28gr 2808xbr hornady brass rem 7 1/2 primer 123amax COAL 2.251 . It was shooting factory amax around 3/4moa.
Satern, Les Baer, JP, Shilen, and Precision have guarantees and stand behind their stuff! Never had a bad Grendel barrel from any of the premier barrels. If I had I know they would have taken care of it. Wish I could afford a Bartlein!!
It was only $75 more than the Lilja, and les Baer option. I just had to wait an extra 6 months for it.
Basically, the Hornady 123gr box ammo is freaking hard to beat. I also have had great accuracy with the Precision Firearms 123gr Lapua Scenar box ammo. Granted, I have an economy button-rifled ER Shaw 16" barrel done by AA, but it has consistently shot everything I've put through it from .79 MOA, to 1.2 MOA for 4 or 5 round groups. At 200yds, it has shot 1.7" to 2.2" if you include all my groups, and don't cherry-pick. I understand the allure to BS people and say, "It's a sub-MOA gun all day long!" and show a picture of my best groups, but I include the "bad" ones too. For a rack-grade barrel, I'm quite happy, considering I got the barrel/bolt combo for $269 back in 2009.
I did partake in the Lilja group buy, so I have at least 2 Lilja's on the way, as I am an accuracy guy. There are some Grendels that shoot so well that it's unbelievable to most. The higher-end barrels will bug hole even at 200yds if you get a hummer.
If you do go heavy/bull barrel, then mating the barrel to the upper becomes more involved, in that you need to bed it and bed the gas block. These are common techniques among the hi-power shooters, so nothing crazy, but do require a smith that knows what they're doing to remove.
For hand loads, 8208 XBR is very stable for temperature, and many accuracy loads are found with it, but do not go above a max load of 28.5gr under 123gr, as it is a bit fast for that bullet weight.
I've been doing a bit of load development with CFE223 after Bwild97 shared his results on the forum with very detailed pics of brass, chronograph printouts, and corresponding targets that took up pages and pages of posts, and CFE seems to be quite a slow-burning, high density powder that you can fill the Grendel case with.
I also shoot a GAP .260 Rem AR10, with a Bartlein barrel, and it will group sub-MOA all day. The upper alone weighs more than my entire scoped with bipod & magazine 16" Grendel, and there is considerably more recoil. I like them both very much, with the Grendel being something you can grab and go, carry, sling, and shoot positions with. It sucks up very minimal powder on the load bench, and there are more pills to choose from than I will ever be able to load for in this life.
When u locktite the barrel which loctite do u use and which for the gas block
I don't see the point in locktiteing the gas block...if there are any voids the carbon will fill them, forming a seal just fine.
If it were my daughter, I would skip the Grendel and go 6 creed. With a good brake on an AR platform, there would be minimal recoil. Works great on a bolt action platform as well... Performance will be everything you need it to be.
Last edited:
The 6 creed is a handload only cartridge isn't it? I don't have any of the stuff to start reloading or the knowledge to start right now. I am waiting for Christmas to be over before I try and get one of the starter kits off of Brownells or midway.
It is handload only... If you are limited to factory ammunition, you could go 6.5 creed, .260, .243 as well... If you start reloading, a whole new world will be opened up to you (at least that was my personal experience). Despite what you may read or hear from some, it really isn't that difficult to produce quality ammo. You won't need all the bells, whistles, gadgets that are often talked about. Good luck with your choice...
Thanks I appreciate it, reloading definitely seems overwhelming reading about it over the internet not being able to put my hands on it.
Reloading for gas-operated firearms isn't a menial task, I can assure you. Reloading for bolt guns is a task in itself, but there are several things you have to do differently with a gas gun. Some people call it a hobby, while others think of it as a serious discipline that requires attention to detail, complete focus, and a fundamental understanding of applied physics.
Most of the starter kits include crap you don't need and will never use, so they can up the price and get rid of old inventory of out-dated tools and gadgets.
I reload for all my rifles, but it's so much nicer to pick up a case of quality Hornady A-MAX and focus my time on shooting, as time at the bench equals time away from family. As a result, my Grendel gets shot a lot more than my .260 Rem.
I think the Grendel would be a great round for your daughter. It gets similar ballistics to .308 but with much less recoil. Mine has a 24" heavy barrel with no brake. The recoil is not bad. The gun is heavy though. Will she need to carry it? You could go lighter and put a brake on it. If you decide to go with a 6.5 creedmoor or 243, etc. I wouldn't do it in an AR platform. Only because you won't be able to download the cartridges without running into cycling problems.
I have a 18" Gendel that my daughter has been shooting some for the last couple years. She loves it because it has low recoil but shoots hard. I shoot it most of the time suppressed, but the a brake is great also, just much louder! There is nothing wrong with the Grendel for a young shooter or a old one as matter of fact! I have only shot mine out to about 600 yards, but once you have your dope its easy, cross hair on target and fire, hit after hit. I started my grendel build for my daughter to hunt with, after reading about its low recoil and long range ballistics I figured it was a winner. After building and shooting it I know I was right.
Have an 18" Grendel and recoil is not much at all with the gun. Bare (no scope or mount, and with a shitty m4 stock) it is a little more noticeable. I have one of the PWS Muzzle brake/ flash suppressors that I have yet to put on because i've yet to find the need other than it would look cool lol. Ive not shot mine out far but have heard many stories of 1,000 shots. Its a very accurate platform to shoot from
People are suggesting a 6 Creedmore, that is AR10, ie much heavier than an AR15 and likely not suitable for younger shooters.
I'll start with full disclosure: I'm a Grendel fan boy. The loads I use (123 grain Scenar at about 2550 fps) don't go transonic until around 1400 yards, so 1000 yards isn't a big issue for tactical type shooting. Tactical shooting is dramatically different than F class shooting. Obviously, the 6.5x284 is ballistically superior, but it isn't in an AR15 format rifle. So, for sake of discussion, I'll limit myself to rounds that would fit into the Ar15 size rifles (not AR10).
There are a number of fabulous rounds in this family of cartridges. The 6mm grendel, 6mm fat rat, 6x45 (just a 5.56 necked up), and many other fine cartridges in addition to the Grendel. Most of these are wildcat rounds and this means you will have to spend a great deal of time at the loading bench making and maintaining brass. Even my Grendel brass requires work. At 79 cents to $1 per case, I have to anneal and trim cases to keep them running. Many of my cases have 5-10 loadings in them. I run Lapua cases, and the necks crack, or eventually the primer pocket gets too loose for me to feel safe.
If I was starting over, and didn't have the investment I already have in Grendel magazines, and brass, I would probably consider loading the 6x45 round. Brass is plentiful (it is just 5.56 brass necked up), and the rifle uses the same bolt and magazines. Even my beloved Grendels require different magazines and a different bolt.
The Grendel does have the ability to shoot out to 1000 yards, but if a great deal of your shooting is at long distances (over 800 yards) it might be worth considering one of the AR10 cartridges like the 260 Remington, or 6.5 Creedmoor.
For a rifle to shoot between 0-1000 yards, a Grendel with a 20 inch barrel will work just fine. I recommend against the heavy 24 inch barrel as they are quite clumsy, and heavy. I have had one, and eventually got rid of it, and have stayed with barrels in the 18-20 inch length since then.
There are a number of fabulous rounds in this family of cartridges. The 6mm grendel, 6mm fat rat, 6x45 (just a 5.56 necked up), and many other fine cartridges in addition to the Grendel. Most of these are wildcat rounds and this means you will have to spend a great deal of time at the loading bench making and maintaining brass. Even my Grendel brass requires work. At 79 cents to $1 per case, I have to anneal and trim cases to keep them running. Many of my cases have 5-10 loadings in them. I run Lapua cases, and the necks crack, or eventually the primer pocket gets too loose for me to feel safe.
If I was starting over, and didn't have the investment I already have in Grendel magazines, and brass, I would probably consider loading the 6x45 round. Brass is plentiful (it is just 5.56 brass necked up), and the rifle uses the same bolt and magazines. Even my beloved Grendels require different magazines and a different bolt.
The Grendel does have the ability to shoot out to 1000 yards, but if a great deal of your shooting is at long distances (over 800 yards) it might be worth considering one of the AR10 cartridges like the 260 Remington, or 6.5 Creedmoor.
For a rifle to shoot between 0-1000 yards, a Grendel with a 20 inch barrel will work just fine. I recommend against the heavy 24 inch barrel as they are quite clumsy, and heavy. I have had one, and eventually got rid of it, and have stayed with barrels in the 18-20 inch length since then.
How much more ump does Grendel have over a .223 felt in the shoulder? She shoot a .223 yesterday and loved it, so I am really thinking about going that route. I almost ruined her being young and dumb and instead of pulling the plug when she wanted to deer hunt with me forcing her to shoot and group with a .243 youth model savage when she didn't like it I pushed. I won't make the same mistake again, it took a year and a half of back to shooting .22 lr to get her back in the shooting mode to try the .223. I got a bleamished upper and lower for 100 bucks so the next question is what would you all use for parts to make this thing worthy for precision duty? The upper and lower are palmetto state armory, I was thinking timney or geiselle triggers, cheapest match barrel I can find that has good reviews, magpul grip and trigger guard. Does the bolt carrier group, gas tube and gas block and other internals matter in regards to accuracy? I am in the virgin zone when it comes to building an AR and figure I will give a good college boy try. Also, found that Barnes makes a .223 bullet made specifically for deer and all reviews say the round makes the chest cavity look like pudding when they clean a deer. I was thinking of making the rifle a "semi, sorta not, sorta so, Mk 12 DMR". We are all from the wife, both daughters, and myself excited about building a purpose built rifle doing it for family time and I want to get it right.
A 77 grain bullet at 2600fps will have about 77/123 (63%) of the recoil of a 123 grain bullet at 2600fps. You won't want to go lighter than a 77 with a .223 at 600. Too much wind. For a young kid, I'd err on the side of less recoil. It's always fun when it goes bang. It's never fun if it hurts.
As for building an AR, it's really not that difficult. Get the right tools (vise block, barrel wrench, pin punches, roll pin starters, and a cheap beam-style torque wrench) and they go together pretty easily. It makes it easier if you buy the bolt and barrel together - White Oak sells a reasonably priced and popular barrel, and will include a headspaced bolt with it for no extra cost (beyond buying the bolt). That makes an AR essentially a bolt together kind of thing. If your'e reasonably handy, you can do it in an afternoon with the right tools even the fist time. An armorers manual and poking around on the internet will get you the info you need.
For your purposes (perhaps for anyone's), the gas tube, block, BCG and pretty much everything else but the trigger don't matter. The barrel (with headspaced bolt) and trigger are by far the most important items.
If you want to keep costs down, Geiselle offers a good single stage trigger - it's essentially a factory military style trigger, but made to better tolerances. It's not a $300 high speed, but it's only about $70. There are some great videos on you tube that goes over all the models he offers explained by the man himself. A high speed is damn near perfection if you've got the cash.
For your purposes (perhaps for anyone's), the gas tube, block, BCG and pretty much everything else but the trigger don't matter. The barrel (with headspaced bolt) and trigger are by far the most important items.
If you want to keep costs down, Geiselle offers a good single stage trigger - it's essentially a factory military style trigger, but made to better tolerances. It's not a $300 high speed, but it's only about $70. There are some great videos on you tube that goes over all the models he offers explained by the man himself. A high speed is damn near perfection if you've got the cash.
Wish we had a like button right about now, I can't tell you how happy I was with some dude I never meet at a rifle range and she liked shooting center fire after I screwed up
...and a 77 will kill whitetail plenty dead...
If you need to get out to 1k reliably, then I would go 6.5G or .264 LBC. I'm in the process of building my third. I agree that a 24" heavy barrel is a bit too much on these. you pretty much top out velocity with 20"-22". And the round doesn't send a lot of vibrations down the barrel so you don't need to go so heavy. My HBAR AR15 has a much lighter barrel than my .223 Savage, yet they both shoot excellent groups. Meaning smaller calibers/cartridges don't need as heavy a barrel as the bigger calibers and cases.
For recoil, I've found the round to be very light in that department. Slightly more than the 5.56, but not as much as one would think. Mostly, because the round is normally loaded to lower pressure. More, but not a lot. I added two different muzzle brakes and found the pepperpot style was a better match for this round. It doesn't need a lot of braking. Yet when added, it reduced it to almost nil. The other thing I didn't have to deal with is muzzle blast. This will turn off young shooters quite quickly. Especially since they, and usually us, don't understand how bad they can be sometimes. On a magnum, I prefer the chamber type brake as they are more effective at stopping recoil. They have a nasty blast though. I counter that by wearing a neoprene (dive suit material) face warmer. The kind without the nose/mouth holes. That keeps the shockwave from the blast from slamming up into your sinuses (and causing headaches). Again though, that's my opinion for magnums. I have a pepperpot on my 7 WSM and it's not as effective as chamber style brakes.
Anyhow, the reason I say for the purposes you mention, the 6.5G is the best choice is there is enough out there now that you can find ammo or reload pretty easily. Win. and Federal both make 7.62x39 that you can neck down and Lapua makes 6.5G brass for both them and AA. Reloading is probably going to be your best option. Match ammo is spendy and not always available. I would opt against a 6.8 as they simply don't have the bullets that fly as well as the 6.5's. They get to 1k, but not competitively.
Other options are the 6mm's based on the Grendel (improved PPC's) or the 6mm BR. Same length case as the Grendel so you can load relatively long loads. The problem here is you need to get a stronger bolt so that you can load it up and take advantage. DELETED: Harrison at ar15performance.com has those bolts. Or, at least he did. Sorry, discontinued, my bad..
For recoil, I've found the round to be very light in that department. Slightly more than the 5.56, but not as much as one would think. Mostly, because the round is normally loaded to lower pressure. More, but not a lot. I added two different muzzle brakes and found the pepperpot style was a better match for this round. It doesn't need a lot of braking. Yet when added, it reduced it to almost nil. The other thing I didn't have to deal with is muzzle blast. This will turn off young shooters quite quickly. Especially since they, and usually us, don't understand how bad they can be sometimes. On a magnum, I prefer the chamber type brake as they are more effective at stopping recoil. They have a nasty blast though. I counter that by wearing a neoprene (dive suit material) face warmer. The kind without the nose/mouth holes. That keeps the shockwave from the blast from slamming up into your sinuses (and causing headaches). Again though, that's my opinion for magnums. I have a pepperpot on my 7 WSM and it's not as effective as chamber style brakes.
Anyhow, the reason I say for the purposes you mention, the 6.5G is the best choice is there is enough out there now that you can find ammo or reload pretty easily. Win. and Federal both make 7.62x39 that you can neck down and Lapua makes 6.5G brass for both them and AA. Reloading is probably going to be your best option. Match ammo is spendy and not always available. I would opt against a 6.8 as they simply don't have the bullets that fly as well as the 6.5's. They get to 1k, but not competitively.
Other options are the 6mm's based on the Grendel (improved PPC's) or the 6mm BR. Same length case as the Grendel so you can load relatively long loads. The problem here is you need to get a stronger bolt so that you can load it up and take advantage. DELETED: Harrison at ar15performance.com has those bolts. Or, at least he did. Sorry, discontinued, my bad..
Last edited:
6 Creedmoor isn't necessarily a handload only proposition, loaded ammo can be bought for 6 Creedmoor.
Will you be doing an AR platform or a bolt gun platform? If you go AR, Geissele triggers are my recommendation and the DMR model is what I run.
I'd take a hard look at 6mm AR, I'm putting together an AR right now in 6mm AR. Once the 6mmAR is done could send you comparison data between like configured ARs, one in 6.5 Grendel vs. one in 6mm AR. I like the performance #s I'm seeing with the 6mm AR over the 6.5 Grendel. AR platform to reach way out there, I think the 6mm AR is going to win out. Time will tell.
I've got both AR and bolt rifle in 6.5 Grendel, probably do 6mm AR in both AR and bolt rifle and have 6.5 MUTT in both AR and bolt rifle. MUTT is nice little round but going to pretty much be running out of gas about 350 - 400 yards. Bolt rifle with 120 VLDs @ 2400 fps are easy to watch your own trace into target.
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-semi-auto-rifles/111122-6-5x-upper.html#post2604742
16" 223 w/mid or 18" 223 w/intermediate gas system running 69 / 73 / 75 / 77 gr bullets will probably meet your needs pretty well also. 8 twist bbl would be plenty, 7.7 or 7 wouldn't hurt you any.
400 yards or less, 223 with heavy match bullets isn't giving up too much.
Past 400 yards with minimal recoil, I'd suggest a 6mm AR or if you don't want to reload, 6.5 Grendel / 264 LBC.
6 Creedmoor, 6mm AR, or pretty much any caliber can be bought as loaded ammo if you contact the right company.
Best wishes on your build and getting the whole family involved with the project, shooting sports!
Good point. I didn't really consider the weight of the large frame AR when I mentioned the 6 creed. Of course running it in a bolt gun doesn't present that problem...
If you don't reload the LBC/Grendel is a good easy to shoot choice for beginners and also a nice moderate range hunting option should that be needed.
I still have the LBC in 5R krieger but I wanted a tad more speed w/o going crazy so I build the 6.5BR that I also shoot from the AR15 platform. This gets me in the 2750fps with the 123 flyers and 20" barrel it shoots flatter and
further than the LBC grendel and can build in the AR15 if you want.
I could use a tad more runway but I preferred a compact platform. And all other things being equal a more compact shorter barrel rifle can be a more accurate one, specially with a very modest report.
Another option that is very appealing to me is the 6x45 long. This is a 6x45 shooting from a 20 or 22" barrel and VLD magazines. Also a great choice for the AR. This one is a tad milder than the LBC grendel as
one cannot go over 95 and 105gr bullets but it shoots flatter and further than the LBC grendel too. G1 coefficients are in the same bulk park but it gets the edge on speed. Not a huge margin
but also it is very accurate and a lot more budget friendly.
Unfortunately for these, one has to reload for them. The 6x45 long is really easy.
I still have the LBC in 5R krieger but I wanted a tad more speed w/o going crazy so I build the 6.5BR that I also shoot from the AR15 platform. This gets me in the 2750fps with the 123 flyers and 20" barrel it shoots flatter and
further than the LBC grendel and can build in the AR15 if you want.
I could use a tad more runway but I preferred a compact platform. And all other things being equal a more compact shorter barrel rifle can be a more accurate one, specially with a very modest report.
Another option that is very appealing to me is the 6x45 long. This is a 6x45 shooting from a 20 or 22" barrel and VLD magazines. Also a great choice for the AR. This one is a tad milder than the LBC grendel as
one cannot go over 95 and 105gr bullets but it shoots flatter and further than the LBC grendel too. G1 coefficients are in the same bulk park but it gets the edge on speed. Not a huge margin
but also it is very accurate and a lot more budget friendly.
Unfortunately for these, one has to reload for them. The 6x45 long is really easy.
Last edited:
Similar threads
