To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

flyboy

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Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

I've got a sps tac that shoots groups that well. Plus I have witnesses and I'm not selling mine.

The difference is my 10 rounds hit the target. I'll have pitcures later.

What I'm trying to say is there are many rifles out there with reloads that are capable of great groups given that they are driven to that level. Once you start talking about acurate rifles, its all in the loads.

Plus where is the $3600 price tag coming from.
 

JSTARSZ

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    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    what they never say is how they did the shooting. In a vice with little to no human involvement. I really don't care all that much when a builder tells me that it will shoot 1/4 or 1/2 MOA at a 100 with match ammo. I care to the point that I know I have a good rifle and when it can't do that it is more than likely me but I don't put all that much stock in these claims. It matters to me what I can do with the rifle. And, I shoot with a bipod on the ground with a read TAB bag. When I hit a 1/2 MOA 5 shot group then I know it is me.
     

    LoneWolfUSMC

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    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    Great! You bought the hype. Now buy the rifle and learn to do that while you are holding it.

    wink.gif
     

    sobrbiker883

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    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    WTF is your point with this thread?

    -I agree with LWUSMC's comment 100% btw.....
     

    TalkingBush

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    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clayward</div><div class="ubbcode-body">look at picture number 18
    http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=167771050

    then post ANY COMPANY WHO MAKES CUSTOM RIFLES at any PRICE AND SHOW A 10 SHOT GROUP USING FACTORY AMMO, OR CUSTOM HAND LOADS....I will kiss your azz to find anything even close short of a rail gun... </div></div>http://www.gaprecision.net/
    http://www.tacticaloperations.com/
     

    darrenk75b

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    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    Les Baer can certainly make a nice rifle. I find it really unfortunate, however, that they chose to put their rifle in one of those B&C stocks. Bad move, IMHO
     

    matchking

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    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: flyboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Plus where is the $3600 price tag coming from.
    </div></div>
    The stock!
    wink.gif
     

    brand692

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    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: darrenk75b</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Les Baer can certainly make a nice rifle. I find it really unfortunate, however, that they chose to put their rifle in one of those B&C stocks. Bad move, IMHO </div></div>

    Bad move? I would push it a little further on the "Did-we-really-do-that-ometer" from <span style="color: #FF6600">BAD MOVE</span> to <span style="color: #FF0000">FAIL</span>.

    Don't get me wrong, Baer makes great stuff. Its just too bad that is the way they went with the stock.
     

    shooter65

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    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    Ha ha ha ha ha ha !!!

    All I can say....
     

    z71rat

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    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    I know there are some that like that Sci-Fi stock, but I personally can't stand them. And there is NO WAY that I would ever drop that kind of coin for THAT rifle... PERIOD.

    DK
     

    KYS

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    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    Do you not know how easy it is to get 20 yards away from something and put them in the same hole? PLus I bet they had to strap that rifle into a vise so it wouldn't move at all. And they didn't even hit the box.

    All of the other custom gun makers around here can produce tight groups laying prone with a rear bag and bipod.

    Thats nothing special and I give it a C- for a shitty stock. Cutting corners
     

    3positionshooter

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    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    here they come....just like the people that cant shoot sub 2's with ar's yet every les baer super varmint can....its not in a machine rest. les baer shoots every one with a 36x dot leup scope on a sand bag...so before you start tossing stones..POST YOUR PICS...BECAUSE I AM CALLING YOU OUT!!!
     

    3positionshooter

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    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    BLAH, BLAH BLAH...ITS 100 YARDS. I have six guns in my safe that I have won from people who talk crap about les baer ar's...no one will shoot against me at my club with my ar's this rifle will out shoot any rifle made by any company regardless of the price...ITS FEDERAL GOLD AMMO...not hand loads but i will put up any $$$ that this rifle will out shoot anything anyone has too loose....


    \<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYshooter338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you not know how easy it is to get 20 yards away from something and put them in the same hole? PLus I bet they had to strap that rifle into a vise so it wouldn't move at all. And they didn't even hit the box.

    All of the other custom gun makers around here can produce tight groups laying prone with a rear bag and bipod.

    Thats nothing special and I give it a C- for a shitty stock. Cutting corners </div></div>
     

    3positionshooter

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    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    WHERE ARE THEY???? PUT UP OR STFU....paint your guns camo and all...you fail. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYshooter338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you not know how easy it is to get 20 yards away from something and put them in the same hole? PLus I bet they had to strap that rifle into a vise so it wouldn't move at all. And they didn't even hit the box.

    All of the other custom gun makers around here can produce tight groups laying prone with a rear bag and bipod.

    Thats nothing special and I give it a C- for a shitty stock. Cutting corners </div></div>
     

    264Charlie

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    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    If that is even 10 rounds, how did they shoot the group? Inside, outside... I am very sure my rifle can put 10 rounds in the same whole. As for me, not even close but then again am to busy pushing bad shot from a bipod to try it from a bench.

    What to all the guarantee get you? Note they don't Guarantee you will shoot .5 MOA groups. Buy a good rifle from a good builder and go shoot it. No guarantee is going to help you game the system.

    ...and stop believing everything you read on the internet.
     

    Dave-O

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    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    To the OP.... DO YOU OWN THIS RIFLE...? IF SO.. Post YOUR groups with said rifle.. Or at least shoot a clean 21 dot drill... Your the one who has to put up or shut up.. your pimping the rifle...
     

    EventHorizon

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    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clayward</div><div class="ubbcode-body">....I will kiss your azz to find anything even close short of a rail gun... </div></div>

    Mate, I hope you like the taste of ass because you're going to be kissing a lot of it. That MOA statement doesn't seem to be that special given the likes of TacOps, LPR, TBR and others who have 1/4MOA statements...
     

    wnroscoe

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    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    I started my rifle loading/shooting/building in BR. I've seen accurate rifles, I know what it takes to get kick ass groups (well under .250moa) If that’s a 10 shot group at 100 yards all I can say is it was luck of the draw that day........do it again with only five shots. Bet that target looks different.

    It's just more sales hype / BS


    WTF is up with that stock.........
    crazy.gif
    sick.gif
    crazy.gif
     

    NY700

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    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    This is so sill and nothing magical. 90% of the people on this forum have a rifle capable of this. The question has been and always will be can the shooter do it, can they do it at unknown distance and can they do it in the wind. There is nothing special on that build. Good parts sure. The B&C stock its good, I just sold one didn't really care for it but it was ok. We will call it second tier. The tac 30 action. Stiller makes good shit with good service but let's be honest in tactical its second tier. Wyatt bottom metal again good biut not amazing or revolutionary and at $3600 ill go GAP or surgeon in a hart beat or just build the same rig and get a scope out of it too.
     

    3positionshooter

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    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    I have won multiple smack the smileys with my super varmint 24 and have won almost 7k worth of rifles in my safe against those who said a les baer ar wont go toe to toe against a custom bolt gun....they walked away with their tail between their legs...as for the groups posted....i have zero doubt that a very good shooter can duplicate these groups on a sand bag......post your pics if you dare....

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SubMOA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To the OP.... DO YOU OWN THIS RIFLE...? IF SO.. Post YOUR groups with said rifle.. Or at least shoot a clean 21 dot drill... Your the one who has to put up or shut up.. your pimping the rifle... </div></div>
     

    3positionshooter

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    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    envy is a sin...have you not learned that
    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Usdmgtr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">SIr, I think your just a TROLL. </div></div>
     

    3positionshooter

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    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    so have them take factory black hills crap or fed gold or what ever and shoot it and post the groups...i have money that says no one can come close....my two les baer ar's will shoot in the 1's ever time i go to the range..i have far to many (hundreds of targets that have done this with 5 shot groups with a 5.5-22 nightforce) lets see your pimped out tough guy rigs with all the camo and crap come even close....you all shoot bench rest thats how you brag about your groups...yet i have never seen any smith even come close...not even in the ball park....Les Baer is so far above all the paint can guys its not even funny...


    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clayward</div><div class="ubbcode-body">....I will kiss your azz to find anything even close short of a rail gun... </div></div>

    Mate, I hope you like the taste of ass because you're going to be kissing a lot of it. That MOA statement doesn't seem to be that special given the likes of TacOps, LPR, TBR and others who have 1/4MOA statements...

    </div></div>
     

    3positionshooter

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    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    as they say talk is cheap...post the groups, the pic is rifle number 30 and all will do the same, where is yours????? as they say excuses are like XXXXXXXX everyone has one


    ....<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NY700</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is so sill and nothing magical. 90% of the people on this forum have a rifle capable of this. The question has been and always will be can the shooter do it, can they do it at unknown distance and can they do it in the wind. There is nothing special on that build. Good parts sure. The B&C stock its good, I just sold one didn't really care for it but it was ok. We will call it second tier. The tac 30 action. Stiller makes good shit with good service but let's be honest in tactical its second tier. Wyatt bottom metal again good biut not amazing or revolutionary and at $3600 ill go GAP or surgeon in a hart beat or just build the same rig and get a scope out of it too. </div></div>
     

    3positionshooter

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    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    this, i agree the stock is inferior to a mcmillian but at the end of the day results are the bottom line..<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: darrenk75b</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Les Baer can certainly make a nice rifle. I find it really unfortunate, however, that they chose to put their rifle in one of those B&C stocks. Bad move, IMHO </div></div>
     

    SDWhirlwind

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    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clayward</div><div class="ubbcode-body">envy is a sin...have you not learned that </div></div>


    Where does stupidity, ignorance and incompetence fall then????

    Damn, I take hydrocodone on a near daily basis and can guarantee I ain't near as fucked in the head as you are!! What is your dosage of what???
    wink.gif


    My dream is to someday meet face to face one of those "all day long, every day if I do my part" fellas. Think even an old stubborn self absorbed dumbass like myself could learn some shootin skills
    smile.gif


    Sadly the internet has made it so easy for a self proclaimed expert to exist among us common folk and not have to back up their claims. Anybody can post a target on the net. Absolutely no proof it is legit however.

    To claim Les Baer is supperior to ANY other rifle builder/smith is reason enough to disbelieve anything you post. Just because you have a safe full of Chipmunk 22's makes you..... what?????

    Oh, who makes Les' barrels???

    Thanks for the afternoon entertainment with your comments. Thought it was gonna be "just another boring Saturday".lol
     

    R.Walters

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    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigBoss0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">my internet penis is bigger than yours............</div></div> dude!!!! i doubt it, he really knows what hes talking about!!!
     

    3positionshooter

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    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    pics????? where are your groups????? hater<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SDWhirlwind</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clayward</div><div class="ubbcode-body">envy is a sin...have you not learned that </div></div>


    Where does stupidity, ignorance and incompetence fall then????

    Damn, I take hydrocodone on a near daily basis and can guarantee I ain't near as fucked in the head as you are!! What is your dosage of what???
    wink.gif


    My dream is to someday meet face to face one of those "all day long, every day if I do my part" fellas. Think even an old stubborn self absorbed dumbass like myself could learn some shootin skills
    smile.gif


    Sadly the internet has made it so easy for a self proclaimed expert to exist among us common folk and not have to back up their claims. Anybody can post a target on the net. Absolutely no proof it is legit however.

    To claim Les Baer is supperior to ANY other rifle builder/smith is reason enough to disbelieve anything you post. Just because you have a safe full of Chipmunk 22's makes you..... what?????

    Oh, who makes Les' barrels???

    Thanks for the afternoon entertainment with your comments. Thought it was gonna be "just another boring Saturday".lol </div></div>
     

    R.Walters

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    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clayward</div><div class="ubbcode-body">pics????? where are your groups????? hater<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SDWhirlwind</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clayward</div><div class="ubbcode-body">envy is a sin...have you not learned that </div></div>


    Where does stupidity, ignorance and incompetence fall then????

    Damn, I take hydrocodone on a near daily basis and can guarantee I ain't near as fucked in the head as you are!! What is your dosage of what???
    wink.gif


    My dream is to someday meet face to face one of those "all day long, every day if I do my part" fellas. Think even an old stubborn self absorbed dumbass like myself could learn some shootin skills
    smile.gif


    Sadly the internet has made it so easy for a self proclaimed expert to exist among us common folk and not have to back up their claims. Anybody can post a target on the net. Absolutely no proof it is legit however.

    To claim Les Baer is supperior to ANY other rifle builder/smith is reason enough to disbelieve anything you post. Just because you have a safe full of Chipmunk 22's makes you..... what?????

    Oh, who makes Les' barrels???

    Thanks for the afternoon entertainment with your comments. Thought it was gonna be "just another boring Saturday".lol </div></div></div></div>

    where are youre fucking groups?
     

    3positionshooter

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    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    hey hater...read the post...look at pic 18 and drool..because you cant even come close with your best 3 shot group using hand loads....


    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KnabstrupperUSA</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clayward</div><div class="ubbcode-body">pics????? where are your groups????? hater<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SDWhirlwind</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clayward</div><div class="ubbcode-body">envy is a sin...have you not learned that </div></div>


    Where does stupidity, ignorance and incompetence fall then????

    Damn, I take hydrocodone on a near daily basis and can guarantee I ain't near as fucked in the head as you are!! What is your dosage of what???
    wink.gif


    My dream is to someday meet face to face one of those "all day long, every day if I do my part" fellas. Think even an old stubborn self absorbed dumbass like myself could learn some shootin skills
    smile.gif


    Sadly the internet has made it so easy for a self proclaimed expert to exist among us common folk and not have to back up their claims. Anybody can post a target on the net. Absolutely no proof it is legit however.

    To claim Les Baer is supperior to ANY other rifle builder/smith is reason enough to disbelieve anything you post. Just because you have a safe full of Chipmunk 22's makes you..... what?????

    Oh, who makes Les' barrels???

    Thanks for the afternoon entertainment with your comments. Thought it was gonna be "just another boring Saturday".lol </div></div></div></div>

    where are youre fucking groups? </div></div>
     

    3positionshooter

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    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    I dont see any and their are hundreds posted if not thousands on this board....where are they???? I know he missed the target...booh, hooo......its in the 1's and every one of his prior 29 rifles will do the same....he posts the target with the gun...WHERE IS YOURS???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: flyboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've got a sps tac that shoots groups that well. Plus I have witnesses and I'm not selling mine.

    The difference is my 10 rounds hit the target. I'll have pitcures later.

    What I'm trying to say is there are many rifles out there with reloads that are capable of great groups given that they are driven to that level. Once you start talking about acurate rifles, its all in the loads.

    Plus where is the $3600 price tag coming from.
    </div></div>
     

    3positionshooter

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    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    my sako 6mm ppc wont group like this rifle with a 36 dot and handloads....and a 6mm ppc is a vastly superior round when compared to a 308 with respect to bench rest accuracy....the facts are clear, no one and i mean no one can even come close to the results that are proven with a les baer rifle...POST YOUR PICS
     

    sobrbiker883

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    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    So clayward, I get from your posts that it is your rifle. Next question is if its so great that you are adamantly espousing its greatness, why are you selling it?
     

    titandriver

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    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    I'll be darned; every, and I mean every, Cooper rifle comes with a target that sports an itty-bitty group -- at least the ones at Scheels in Billings, Mt do! Cain't say I've ever seen one do that in a customers hands though! Prolly ought to contact Cooper, I'm certain they'd send you pix of those groups you so earnestly desire.
     

    3positionshooter

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    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    no, its not mine...i would love to own it, i have two les baer super varmints and 4 of his 45's premier 2, combat etc...my point is he builds the best rifles period...he gives you the targets...hell even my cooper rifles (while they are amazing are only done with a 5 shot group and yes...if you call them and give the serial number they will give the hand load used and case over all length...but cooper rifles all have been beat too death...you know...its a 50 yard range...lmao...but lets keep it to les baer rifles... <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So clayward, I get from your posts that it is your rifle. Next question is if its so great that you are adamantly espousing its greatness, why are you selling it? </div></div>
     

    zinny

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    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    im 99% sure that his gun is not the one in the link as not only does it say that the rifle is new, but the seller is a dealer who has a few hundred listings. so in fact clayward has not shown proof that his rifles can perform that well.

    i really never understood why people create threads like these on any kind of forum. it really does make you wonder how the other half lives.
     

    BigBoss0311

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    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    no seriously, my internet penis IS bigger than yours. Pics don't prove shit. Why? Because who knows how many rounds you actually fired, or from what distance or from what rifle. Video my friend. Notice nobody calls into question Lowlight's shit? It's because he posts his nastiness for all the Hide to see. You post a video then I'll believe you.
     

    BigBoss0311

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    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    Alright let's do this. HK makes a far superior rifle than Les Baer could ever have a wet dream about. Bring it.
     

    3positionshooter

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    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    what dont you get?????? i said look at pic 18 and drool and wheap....you people that spend 3k+ for the smith of the day fall way short...months ago when the rifle was shown at shot show, people here said "i wont spend that kind of money on an un proven gun"...yeah...lmao....your the sucker who got had with the pretty camo stock and the really cool name of the gun that you over paid for...

    my les baer ar's wont produce 10 shot groups like this but will reproduce those that were provided with the rifle...i have proven this and have rifles in my safe from those that would put their sticks on the line and lost....my point is Les Baer is the real deal and those that talk crap...are full of it...
    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: zinny</div><div class="ubbcode-body">im 99% sure that his gun is not the one in the link as not only does it say that the rifle is new, but the seller is a dealer who has a few hundred listings. so in fact clayward has not shown proof that his rifles can perform that well.

    i really never understood why people create threads like these on any kind of forum. it really does make you wonder how the other half lives. </div></div>
     

    chadg

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    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clayward</div><div class="ubbcode-body">no, its not mine...i would love to own it, i have two les baer super varmints and 4 of his 45's premier 2, combat etc...my point is he builds the best rifles period...he gives you the targets...hell even my cooper rifles (while they are amazing are only done with a 5 shot group and yes...if you call them and give the serial number they will give the hand load used and case over all length...but cooper rifles all have been beat too death...you know...its a 50 yard range...lmao...but lets keep it to les baer rifles... <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So clayward, I get from your posts that it is your rifle. Next question is if its so great that you are adamantly espousing its greatness, why are you selling it? </div></div> </div></div>




    Piston pete is that you?????????????????????????????????????????????????????To many question marks maybe?
     

    zinny

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    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clayward</div><div class="ubbcode-body">no, its not mine...i would love to own it, i have two les baer super varmints and 4 of his 45's premier 2, combat etc...my point is he builds the best rifles period...he gives you the targets...hell even my cooper rifles (while they are amazing are only done with a 5 shot group and yes...if you call them and give the serial number they will give the hand load used and case over all length...but cooper rifles all have been beat too death...you know...its a 50 yard range...lmao...but lets keep it to les baer rifles... <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So clayward, I get from your posts that it is your rifle. Next question is if its so great that you are adamantly espousing its greatness, why are you selling it? </div></div> </div></div>

    confirmed as i was writing...
     

    wnroscoe

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    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    Hey Clayword, put photos up of those winning groups. Hell I'd even like to see groups fired from your AR even if they're not winning groups.

    Put up photos of those winnings as well.......you know, the rifles. Whats in this for you from LB?
     

    chadg

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    foothills of the ozarks.
    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    I still think this is piston pete,you can tell by all the drawn out rambling,really who gives a shit.There are many rifles that can shoot that well,shooters,not so many.
     

    zinny

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    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    what dont i get? what i dont get is why you would create a thread knowing that you will cause alot of controversy and recieve negative feedback from almost all contributors to your thread. a forum is used for the purpose of information for the good of everyone. we're not 12 yr olds here trying to pick a fight on the internet with one another posing as "adults".
     

    3positionshooter

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    Re: To all the nay sayers, haters and doubters

    I am not the "smith" here, just a customer who buys and shoots Les Baer rifles....who has had his nads busted because they were not built by the smith de jour.....with neat rifle names and spray can colors.....

    read the post...look at pic 18 and POST YOURS......FOLLOW BASIC AND SIMPLE INSTRUCTIONS..............UNDERSTAND????????????????????????????




    quote=wnroscoe]Hey Clayword, put photos up of those winning groups. Hell I'd even like to see groups fired from your AR even if they're not winning groups.

    Put up photos of those winnings as well.......you know, the rifles. Whats in this for you from LB? [/quote]