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K-Bars  Ultralight self defense blade for female runner

jbell

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  • Jan 16, 2010
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    i am going to tell you something you dont want to hear......but yes.....yes they can.

    1) most martial arts suck...karate sucks...judo sucks...muah thai sucks...thai chi sucks...TKD sucks....escrima sucks

    when you look at the realm of professional (non-disciplinary specific) fighters......they are learning BJJ, Krav, and boxing


    2) size/ strength matters....men by and large are genetically stronger and larger than women.....and even in martial arts that claim "size doesnt matter" like judo and Bjj......size fucking matters.....thats the reason why professional fighters are sorted by weight class, and not by "rank"......and its also why men dont fight women.

    a competent mid level male fighter in nearly every discipline will handily beat the shit out of the top women fighters......no contest......same goes for weight, you can take a 100lb BJJ black belt and put him against a 240lb BJJ purple belt......and they are going to be scraping that 100lb guy off the mat.

    when i was training in BJJ, there were 5' blue and purple rank women that simply could not execute the throws on me...technically everything they were doing was perfect...but the only way they could throw me was if i "assisted"......if i put up even a tiny bit of resistance, they just sat there dry humping me....martial arts are not magic, physics still apply.

    im not saying its a bad thing for women to train in martial arts......they just need to have a realistic expectation of what they can actually do, and what martial arts makes them think they can do.

    i see this all the time in training....especially doing full contact weapons retention training.....more often than not the guy coming in whos been training in some form of martial arts gets a wake up call when he gets thrown around like a rag doll by a guy whos been in construction for 20 yrs.
    Agreed, hence my reason for this post and how I have approached my training for my daughters. STAY AWAY FROM DANGER, but if it's unavoidable create separation ASAP and don't stop running and screaming! IMO short of a double tap to the chest that is the best defense they will have. I pray they never need it, but I'm not going to ignore the fact they might.
     

    jbell

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  • Jan 16, 2010
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    Y'all have given me some great ideas to look at. I'll be going over them with my daughter and sort out a carry method. Right now I'm thinking about how to carry it using the chest strap for her HR monitor.
     

    diverdon

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  • Dec 21, 2011
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    i am going to tell you something you dont want to hear......but yes.....yes they can.

    1) most martial arts suck...karate sucks...judo sucks...muah thai sucks...thai chi sucks...TKD sucks....escrima sucks

    when you look at the realm of professional (non-disciplinary specific) fighters......they are learning BJJ, Krav, and boxing


    2) size/ strength matters....men by and large are genetically stronger and larger than women.....and even in martial arts that claim "size doesnt matter" like judo and Bjj......size fucking matters.....thats the reason why professional fighters are sorted by weight class, and not by "rank"......and its also why men dont fight women.

    a competent mid level male fighter in nearly every discipline will handily beat the shit out of the top women fighters......no contest......same goes for weight, you can take a 100lb BJJ black belt and put him against a 240lb BJJ purple belt......and they are going to be scraping that 100lb guy off the mat.

    when i was training in BJJ, there were 5' blue and purple rank women that simply could not execute the throws on me...technically everything they were doing was perfect...but the only way they could throw me was if i "assisted"......if i put up even a tiny bit of resistance, they just sat there dry humping me....martial arts are not magic, physics still apply.

    im not saying its a bad thing for women to train in martial arts......they just need to have a realistic expectation of what they can actually do, and what martial arts makes them think they can do.

    i see this all the time in training....especially doing full contact weapons retention training.....more often than not the guy coming in whos been training in some form of martial arts gets a wake up call when he gets thrown around like a rag doll by a guy whos been in construction for 20 yrs.

    I'm not at all sure why you've decided to argue with me, but I'm pretty FUCKING CERTIAN, that any of "mid level adult male fighters" would take the side of the victim against the trail roaming thug. If you thought differently of the people you trained with then they must have been lower level. It also speaks to your ability to find and associate with skum.
     

    mcameron

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  • Nov 17, 2011
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    I'm not at all sure why you've decided to argue with me, but I'm pretty FUCKING CERTIAN, that any of "mid level adult male fighters" would take the side of the victim against the trail roaming thug. If you thought differently of the people you trained with then they must have been lower level. It also speaks to your ability to find and associate with skum.
    whos arguing....were having a discussion.

    also, why am i associating with skum?

    im fairly certain you misread my post
     

    mkollman74

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    i am going to tell you something you dont want to hear......but yes.....yes they can.

    1) most martial arts suck...karate sucks...judo sucks...muah thai sucks...thai chi sucks...TKD sucks....escrima sucks

    when you look at the realm of professional (non-disciplinary specific) fighters......they are learning BJJ, Krav, and boxing


    2) size/ strength matters....men by and large are genetically stronger and larger than women.....and even in martial arts that claim "size doesnt matter" like judo and Bjj......size fucking matters.....thats the reason why professional fighters are sorted by weight class, and not by "rank"......and its also why men dont fight women.

    a competent mid level male fighter in nearly every discipline will handily beat the shit out of the top women fighters......no contest......same goes for weight, you can take a 100lb BJJ black belt and put him against a 240lb BJJ purple belt......and they are going to be scraping that 100lb guy off the mat.

    when i was training in BJJ, there were 5' blue and purple rank women that simply could not execute the throws on me...technically everything they were doing was perfect...but the only way they could throw me was if i "assisted"......if i put up even a tiny bit of resistance, they just sat there dry humping me....martial arts are not magic, physics still apply.

    im not saying its a bad thing for women to train in martial arts......they just need to have a realistic expectation of what they can actually do, and what martial arts makes them think they can do.

    i see this all the time in training....especially doing full contact weapons retention training.....more often than not the guy coming in whos been training in some form of martial arts gets a wake up call when he gets thrown around like a rag doll by a guy whos been in construction for 20 yrs.
    I had a female martial arts instructor years ago. Multiple black belts in various disciplines. Very well respected as an expert and a highly sought after sensei. One day while we were taking our wraps off, I straight up asked her who would win a fight between the two of us. She didn’t even hesitate... she told me that unless she got lucky with a strike early in the fight, she’d be toast. She then went on to explain that understanding that reality was the only way she would have a chance against a larger/stronger opponent, and her strategy would be extreme violence up front to either end it with that lucky blow, or create space and pop smoke.

    ETA: this is why every feminist on the planet should be pro 2A. Guns create equality...
     
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    shoobe01

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    I'll pile onto the not suggesting a fighting knife of any sort as a useful solution. Random thoughts:
    • Don't just be aware, but make everyone notice you are aware. Don't be head down, but eye contact everyone, and /especially/ the creepy people off the side of the trail. Attitude does a lot to make you not worthy of being a victim.
    • If for some reason there's an assault without a weapon, displaying yours will tend to make the bad guys escalate instead of back off (completion bias: they are already in the fight...) Bad time to find you brought a knife to a gunfight.
    • All weapons need training. Regularly. If a knife or OC, get the trainers and practice with them at least 20 minutes a month (yes, more is better, but this is a lot already to most people).
    • Practice the comms also. Can she dial 911 without looking? Eye contact and keeping distance during a pending attack works for a bit, but 5 seconds to unlock and dial may be too much of an opening.
    • 911 has to work by law for all mobiles. ALL. Even ones with no subscription. If the smartphone is hard to dial, etc. (not to mention more fragile so may not work during/after a confrontation!) consider a tiny, tiny, tiny dumb phone, in an easy to get to place, instead. A tiny flip, for example, can be deployed and dialed without looking, and no chance of accidental activation. Rugged phones are rugged but heavier and larger. DO note if you don't have a subscription no one knows who is dialing the phone, just gets a 911 call.
    • Regardless of phone systems, look up what support your local PSAP supports. e911 gives location based on phone telemetry, but is not widely supported so if not then you have to be able to talk to the operator to give location.
    • PSAPs do not get trails. At all. They really, really, really want addresses. Um... never got a solid solution to this, as it just takes minutes explaining to just report a problem, so I can't imagine trying to get a location out rapidly in a situation. Look for signs, or ask as A Few locales have this worked out with codes for trail sections to allow that to translate.
    • EPIRB/PLB/etc are... probably not that useful. Wish they were, as one button satellite comms so no dead spots but very slow response because of system limits and the many steps to get down to city police vs dialing 911.
    • Arm carriers are pretty good and common. Phone on one, and a pouch on the other that happens to rip open and be a weapon is plausible.
    • From bike cops etc, horizontal along small of back is also doable for long things. Know several who carry a Glock 33 rounder there as belt stuff is a pain so that is their one reload if needed. You can imagine a pretty big knife there, so look into fannypacks and if a long thing can be there.
    • Batons, and folding batons, are good for distance and hard to get turned on you catatrophically (no chemical, edge) but are heavy, sadly.
     

    pmclaine

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  • Nov 6, 2011
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    You need to develop the mindset in her to actually use a knife.....

    Sure in the most dire of circumstances, as your eyes are going black, anyone will use whatever is at hand including their teeth...the lizard brain has taken over...they are no longer human.

    But for most rational people a knife is a level of personal most cant do.

    or if they try they dont realize the force needed.

    My little pig I shot in the Philippines I tried to "coup de gras" fearing we fire more rounds.

    I tried to punch that thing in the chest with my Ka-Bar.

    I ended up hurting my wrist and pissing off the pig.

    Later when we skinned it I saw where the point of my blade had hit a rib probably causing painful inury but nothing close to fatal.

    I caused his eyes to go black and his lizard brain probably took over......Im lucky it was tied up or it probably would have skull fucked me.
     

    Leftie

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    This really mirrors what the girls and I have been working on for years. I agree and preach that if you stay out of trouble your rarely ever in trouble but on the off chance I want them to have options.

    It is really encouraging to hear that - it's one thing that I don't hear nearly often enough, especially in the United States.

    From my limited experience, "options start between the ears", and are increased or decreased within distance and time constraints. They nearly always narrow in scope of availability from a wider array of passively active nonverbal (Locking eyes with someone and making sure that they know that you notice them, as an example), or verbal de-escalation and non-kinetic less-lethal options to a handful of definitive, nearly certainly life-altering and damaging kinetic options. Less distance and less time means greater likelihood of definitive violence as the solution to what is likely already a violent problem.


    Y'all have given me some great ideas to look at. I'll be going over them with my daughter and sort out a carry method. Right now I'm thinking about how to carry it using the chest strap for her HR monitor.

    This is a great idea, and possibly looking into a way to secure a "neck knife" to a running chest strap in a manner where you won't experience the knife flopping around, and also holding it securely in a good sheath could be the ticket.

    I would encourage you all to practice drawing the knife and conducting pinning/breaking contact under from many positions under stress, as a weapon that isn't accessible when you need it most is useless at best, and a liability at worst. Similarly, understanding the capabilities of a blade dictates usage: as ugly as it sounds, knowing when it is better to commit to the fight and when to create an opportunity for breaking contact and solving the problem with pure footpower and making noise. The difference in approach is highly contextual, and something that must be learned and experienced. The one emphasis that I place on both approaches is that once you make a decision, you must commit to it - there is no going back, no second-guesses, and surely no do-overs. Anything short of full commitment will likely result in severe injury at best.

    I do personally prefer a solid AIWB setup to a neck knife in terms of one-handed accessibility under stress because of near immediate accessibility, but everyone's needs are contextual, and there is no wrong answer if it is proven to work within your requirements and parameters, and gives you a desired result.

    Hope that this helps.
     

    pmclaine

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  • Nov 6, 2011
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    I'll pile onto the not suggesting a fighting knife of any sort as a useful solution. Random thoughts:
    • Don't just be aware, but make everyone notice you are aware. Don't be head down, but eye contact everyone, and /especially/ the creepy people off the side of the trail. Attitude does a lot to make you not worthy of being a victim.
    • If for some reason there's an assault without a weapon, displaying yours will tend to make the bad guys escalate instead of back off (completion bias: they are already in the fight...) Bad time to find you brought a knife to a gunfight.
    • All weapons need training. Regularly. If a knife or OC, get the trainers and practice with them at least 20 minutes a month (yes, more is better, but this is a lot already to most people).
    • Practice the comms also. Can she dial 911 without looking? Eye contact and keeping distance during a pending attack works for a bit, but 5 seconds to unlock and dial may be too much of an opening.
    • 911 has to work by law for all mobiles. ALL. Even ones with no subscription. If the smartphone is hard to dial, etc. (not to mention more fragile so may not work during/after a confrontation!) consider a tiny, tiny, tiny dumb phone, in an easy to get to place, instead. A tiny flip, for example, can be deployed and dialed without looking, and no chance of accidental activation. Rugged phones are rugged but heavier and larger. DO note if you don't have a subscription no one knows who is dialing the phone, just gets a 911 call.
    • Regardless of phone systems, look up what support your local PSAP supports. e911 gives location based on phone telemetry, but is not widely supported so if not then you have to be able to talk to the operator to give location.
    • PSAPs do not get trails. At all. They really, really, really want addresses. Um... never got a solid solution to this, as it just takes minutes explaining to just report a problem, so I can't imagine trying to get a location out rapidly in a situation. Look for signs, or ask as A Few locales have this worked out with codes for trail sections to allow that to translate.
    • EPIRB/PLB/etc are... probably not that useful. Wish they were, as one button satellite comms so no dead spots but very slow response because of system limits and the many steps to get down to city police vs dialing 911.
    • Arm carriers are pretty good and common. Phone on one, and a pouch on the other that happens to rip open and be a weapon is plausible.
    • From bike cops etc, horizontal along small of back is also doable for long things. Know several who carry a Glock 33 rounder there as belt stuff is a pain so that is their one reload if needed. You can imagine a pretty big knife there, so look into fannypacks and if a long thing can be there.
    • Batons, and folding batons, are good for distance and hard to get turned on you catatrophically (no chemical, edge) but are heavy, sadly.


    'Nother Marine Corps story....

    First Day with your Platoon at Boot Camp they ask a bunch of medical questions "Who has had chicken pox, etc"

    Than they came to "Who has been shot?" and I kind of was like "Wait we get shot in the Marine Corps, not before...."

    When three or four kids raised their hands than others raised their hands for being stabbed I realized I wasnt in my middle class suburbia anymore

    Our Platoon Guide was from South Side Chicago and a big bastard. Dont recall if he was one of the shot guys but he was a survivor of the Chicago Battlefield.

    One day we were sitting waiting for something and he said to another Boot from West Virginias outback, cant recall the dudes name Ill call him "Jones".....something to wit was said.....

    "Jones, you need to carry yourself differently. I look at you and I see a pussy. People are going to take advantage of you. Now look at McLaine.....he is as big a pussy as you but he carries himself differently Ill leave him alone."

    That was when I realized I am a lover not a fighter and that there are people in the world that continually size people up as either predator or prey and they make decisions based on what they see.
     

    Missalot

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    Jan 28, 2019
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    Call me an ass, but I wouldn't let my daughter train in a remote area alone. Too many things can go wrong (most likely a bad fall). If no one can keep up with her, they should be on a bike or she should just train somewhere safer. The media is full of stories of single women on trails alone who didn't come back.
     

    Longshot231

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    One thing to think about is jogging with your daughter. If you're a little long in the tooth for that, you could always ride on a bicycle behind her whilst packing the pistol of your choice.

    If you're going to ask about what type of pistol to carry while bike riding, may I suggest starting another thread for that.
     
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    jbell

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    Yes, I have taught my daughters to always make eye contact with anyone approaching (and make damn sure you let them know that you see them). They know that in doing so removes the element of surprise and levels the playing field mentality. My oldest is outgoing and very confident and it shows, but my youngest is a bit more shy and introverted. We all have been working together to break that from her, just yesterday the 3 of us were talking about it and how far my youngest has come. They are learning what becoming a hard target is all about. We have been working on it since they are very young. I have been very upfront with them about abduction and human trafficking, how to identify potential perpetrators, being aware of areas that increase the risk of abduction / attack, and how to react if or when they are confronted or attacked.
    Most of the people who are going to do someone harm are looking for an easy target and counting on the element of surprise. So removing that puts you at less risk.

    We also talk about very close quarters self defense, like going for soft points such as putting your thumbs through both eyes or if using a blade / sharp pointy object go for the stomach, growing, or inner thigh depending on the situation. All of this with the focus being on keeping the weapon out of view and then a very close (not air mailing) fast implementation, even if that is a bite to distract then attempting to put your thumbs into someones brain via the eyes. They are getting the violence of action concept and it’s necessity.

    I do train with my daughters quite often, but I can not always be there for them nor do I really want to be. They understand that I have been training them to be completely self sufficient and they are getting there. I am not really worried about them being attacked especially out on the trails, I think it is more likely to occur in a more populated area. I am most comfortable with them being out in the woods / mountains as they have been raised out there. But again I want to give them all the tools they may need to survive a bad situation and this knife thing is just one more resource that they could use.

    Again I appreciate all the thoughts and suggestions. I think this is a very important discussion that is too often overlooked. Especially for father’s and daughters because for a lot of us here being a hard target and having contingencies in place is just second nature so it may not occur to us to start teaching our loved ones this at an early age. I did’t think this thread would ever get this much attention but I am really happy it has, maybe it is a good reminder to all of us that we can pass on some knowledge to our wives and daughters because as protectors that is our job.
     
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    308pirate

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    What kind of altercation are you envisioning while trail running? I'd probably focus on communications like best possible cellphone coverage or sat-coms etc vs something like a knife which is only useful in last meter engagments. By then you are in a physical altercation and will want/need 3rd party help.

    WTF?

    Seriously?

    Yeah, get the cellphone out when some creep jumps you to rape you. Much better than stabbing him through the heart.
     

    308pirate

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    I am researching and will be purchasing a knife for my daughter to carry on her while running. She puts a lot of miles in mostly on trails so it needs to be light weight, have a secure carry system (that will not flop around and irritate / chafe her), be easy to access and deploy, can be carried under clothing. I am not looking for a “combat knife” that is capable of killing someone, rather something that can effectively deter an attack and create space / an opportunity to get away.

    I just wanted to reach out and see what I am missing in my search. Thank you

     

    BLEE

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    i have one of these in my bag. It’s pretty sturdy for what it is..
    This is what I gave my daughter. I am skilled in kali/escrima stick fighting techniques and showed her some basics of its use and vital strike points. I'm confident she would survive most attacks, from an unarmed attacker. I've also gone over groin strikes/rips, eye gouges and throat/neck strikes. She can put a bad hurt on most attackers.
     
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    dt00083

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    I make these g10 NPE Stabbys. I started making these for females to use in self defense nice light weight and discreet. These will get the job done.
    Message me for info.
    CA02B62F-6A6A-47A1-85E6-66E816D9401E.jpeg8FB8CA56-8E25-4993-A7EE-E3917DAC43D3.jpeg
     
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    shoobe01

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    ...I am not really worried about them being attacked especially out on the trails, I think it is more likely to occur in a more populated area. I am most comfortable with them being out in the woods / mountains as ...
    Be careful with this assumption. Crime per capita is generally higher in rural areas than urban. There are also fewer fences and plenty of ad hoc "private" areas when people are doing nefarious or illegal stuff (stills, cooks...) on public lands, so be especially careful off trail, on low-use trails, when crossing deadfalls that restrict access, etc. and be ready to back off when there are groups of people not doing obviously on-trail things.

    That said, still middling low level and as someone also said above: plan for accidents and I say, other risks. Broad averages, annually, and nationwide (not just wilderness areas, etc):
    • 425,000 rapes & sexual assault, the presumptive threat for most of the above discussion
    • 186,078 aggravated assaults involving firearms
    • 117,854 aggravated assaults with knives
    • 4.7 million dog bites (worthy of reporting, and treatment) resulting in about 200 deaths a year, but...
    • ... another 8-900 die each year from other animal attacks, bee stings, snake bites, etc.
    Couldn't find reliable national stats on wilderness area accidents but this is a nice one on national parks:

    Hydration, clothing, don't get lost, etc.

    And notice how far up traffic accidents are. Wear reflective stuff, and keep your head on a swivel in parking lots, crossing roads (which lots of trails do). Know too many stories of bicyclists and runners who did years of greuling work and avoiding danger to get hit by a damned car.


    ETA: I keep forgetting to say if kids are too young to carry guns, they may well be too young (or it is generally forbidden for everyone) to have other weapons. Check local laws, as they vary a lot. Many people get away with a knife as a tool, but carrying a punch dagger may well be a weapon and since concealed presumably even if otherwise self-defense by activity, the bringing of a concealed weapon may jam things up. Check.
     
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    ma smith

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    “Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.”
    -Mike Tyson

    I still think the best solution for this problem is something other than cqb...maybe a dog? its another set of eyes/ears, useful deterrent, its also survivable and redundant system, less likely to be taken by suprise, etc.

    But I hope and believe the OP has a multi-layered plan/defense well before that knife is a necessary item.

    It bodes well the OP's kid is an elite athlete, and tends to be purposefuly training. this is likely sure to give off the vibe of seriousness and competence that dispels target of opportunity, weakeness, "prey"etc. The only downside with that is the repetitions create exposure over time.

    Again, good luck OP with whatever method you choose.
     
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    tuckybill

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    Ok here is the right answer. Have her carry a knife. Make it one she is willing to carry. Get her to look at a rapala fillet knife. The one with the wooden handle. feather light. Non threatening. Cheap. Handy. Even the little leather scabbard is pretty. Any blade length. If she loses it get her others. In fact get her two of every blade length and let her see if she wants to carry one. This is your kid we are talking about. You can roughen up the handle a bit if you want. Those knives are deadly but in any court are just a "fishing knife". Decided to say that just get her the 4" one for starters.. Another light knife is the Victornix paring knife. Also cheap but no scabbard. She won't want to carry a expensive knife or one that is a fighting knife. Another great knife is the buck alpha from cabelas. Very nice knife that has a legal short blade on it. Again a pretty knife.
     
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    shoobe01

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    The birds head paring knife is a favorite for "just a knife" in such crowds, so a few people make a good Kydex sheath. Get a nice yellow handled knife and it's even less scary.

    I bought this for the wife:

    Stick a piece of paracord (also bright) through the bottom grommet. Loop through something or just grab with your other hand, to rapidly remove the knife.
     

    308pirate

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    I still think the best solution for this problem is something other than cqb...maybe a dog?

    I don't think you get it. Having a knife doesn't preclude anyone from doing other things to mitigate the risk.

    The knife is for when everything else has failed. Pretending there's no need for a weapon because one has a dog, a phone, another pair of eyes, or whatever else is for idiots and pollyannas.
     
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    ma smith

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    I don't think you get it....
    I frankly think the OP mis-spoke when he talked abou the knife as a deterrent, which is fine, he has shown his overall approach is thoughtful and non-trivial, and incorporates many comments made earlier about knives being one of the least important things in terms of ensuring the kid's overall security.

    Reality remains that by the time that knife comes out of concealed carry, you are playing someone elses game. Its best to have options to extircate you from that situation--ie get out of the game--vs trying to play it on your opponent terms.

    If you don't agree with this, that's fine...YMMV
     

    308pirate

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    Reality remains that by the time that knife comes out of concealed carry, you are playing someone elses game. Its best to have options to extircate you from that situation--ie get out of the game--vs trying to play it on your opponent terms.

    If you don't agree with this, that's fine...YMMV

    The terms of the game are changed by the victim when she forces the aggressor to become the "victim".

    Nothing says "fuck you, the game is played now on MY terms" like a shank to the chest or neck.
     
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    atomic41

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    Y'all have given me some great ideas to look at. I'll be going over them with my daughter and sort out a carry method. Right now I'm thinking about how to carry it using the chest strap for her HR monitor.

    Something to consider for her and mentioned by someone else already are the Hill people Gear chest rigs. If she's larger chested, it might not be comfortable but if not it's a really nice solution for carrying everything. I have run trails, mtn bike, hiked with one for many years. I carry phone, keys, id, and handgun. They are super comfy once you get it set up right and I have the zippers oriented for a very fast one handed pull to open while the other hand is reaching in for the firearm.


    They also have a runner's harness which I have not tried but looks like a good option. (y)
     
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    Scottso

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    Unless she’s trained consistently, accident waiting to happen, if you draw a weapon it is to use it, not brandish to make room, 20’ rule anyone? Seen that gap closed mighty quick. I have trained for years, Carry a knife always, in all those years, 40+, only reached for my knife once, and it wasn’t there, thankfully was not in hands of anyone else either. I’d not recommend any weapon to anyone who has not trained with said weapon
     

    striped1

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    Jesus Christ answer the man's question or move on. Enough with the stupid lectures and personal opinions.

    SOB P-Tool is an very light push knife.

     

    HUNTERVASSER

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    Situational awareness would probably be her best defense, and her running ability. Better to run from a threat than a head on encounter.

    IF something bad was to occur I am not sure a knife would be the best defensive weapon but I guess better to have something. For something small, a defensive weapon other than a “stabbing” weapon you might consider something like a PIKA Karambit or something similar. Small, ringed and they have different carry options.
    Something like this:
    207315B2-07A1-49F2-9CE4-5C63AC2CB0F4.png
     

    308Gunner

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    I would also teach your daughter to not yell rape, my mother was a sergeant in narcotics and would put on a lot of training classes for females. the one thing that she stressed was to yell fire, as everyone and their dog wants to see a fire. As stated a fixed blade that is easily accusable would be preferred and also a last resort, the lasting effects of using it would and can be very hard on someone not accustomed to violence. I hope and pray that your daughters and all of our children don't have to find out the realities of just how bad this world has gotten.
     

    jbell

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    I frankly think the OP mis-spoke when he talked abou the knife as a deterrent, which is fine, he has shown his overall approach is thoughtful and non-trivial, and incorporates many comments made earlier about knives being one of the least important things in terms of ensuring the kid's overall security.

    Reality remains that by the time that knife comes out of concealed carry, you are playing someone elses game. Its best to have options to extircate you from that situation--ie get out of the game--vs trying to play it on your opponent terms.

    If you don't agree with this, that's fine...YMMV
    Yes, my choice of words could have been better. By deterrent I mean once it has gone to the point of personal contact quickly and effectively changing the assaulters feelings of power and control, even if just for a second or two just long enough to create a distraction that allows escape.
     

    jbell

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    I would also teach your daughter to not yell rape, my mother was a sergeant in narcotics and would put on a lot of training classes for females. the one thing that she stressed was to yell fire, as everyone and their dog wants to see a fire. As stated a fixed blade that is easily accusable would be preferred and also a last resort, the lasting effects of using it would and can be very hard on someone not accustomed to violence. I hope and pray that your daughters and all of our children don't have to find out the realities of just how bad this world has gotten.
    We have settled on the most simple word that should be in the front of their minds at the time that is universal in the meaning "HELP!"
     

    jbell

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    Jesus Christ answer the man's question or move on. Enough with the stupid lectures and personal opinions.

    SOB P-Tool is an very light push knife.

    I like that one too, thanks.

    It has been a good discussion and I hope maybe it can help others also.
     

    BLEE

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    Edged weapons are awesome for self defense. I prefer them, when I can't carry a firearm. However, edged weapons require a great deal of training to use effectively to stop the attacker and avoid cutting ones self. Any weapon in the hands of the untrained, can be a dangerous thing to the person who wields the weapon. Kali/Escrima, or any of the other Silat flavors focus on small edged weapons use. One need not be an "expert" to be formidable, with these techniques.
     
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    rafiki76

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    My girlfriend has a similar issue, she runs and hikes a lot at home. CCW is not in the picture (CA), she does carry a pocket knife normally but I think she leaves it at home for running, what she does have is a big German Shepard. I would recommend a big dog that could keep up with your daughter in distance, and that is defensive enough to protect her.
     
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    mcameron

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    Edged weapons are awesome for self defense. I prefer them, when I can't carry a firearm. However, edged weapons require a great deal of training to use effectively to stop the attacker and avoid cutting ones self. Any weapon in the hands of the untrained, can be a dangerous thing to the person who wields the weapon. Kali/Escrima, or any of the other Silat flavors focus on small edged weapons use. One need not be an "expert" to be formidable, with these techniques.
    so im going to expand on this a bit, because you arent wrong with what you wrote....but its close to a common misconception i hear frequently that "knifes require a great deal of skill to be effective" and that "if you dont have training, a knife is useless" .....

    a lot of people think knife fights are like they are in west side story, or that knife fighting has a lot of choreographed moves like sword fighting...when in reality, knife fighting is a lot like a prison shanking.....it is quick, ugly, brutal and over quick.

    those guys in prisons have a body count that will put any trained knife fighter to shame...and they do it with simple in and out jabs until the victim stops moving....it is a very low skill but highly effective attack.


    now, onto what you actually said......"edged weapons require a great deal of training to use effectively to stop the attacker and avoid cutting ones self. "

    that AND is the important part...the most important aspect of that training is to prevent you from injuring yourself......you dont need fine control and practice to hurt someone else with a knife.......you DO need that fine control and practice to prevent you from hurting yourself with a knife.


    i wanted to point this out because a lot of people hear "knifes require skill"....and 1) decide not to bother using a knife for defensive means.....or even worse 2) disregard a knife as a true threat, assuming that thug isnt a danger with it......and noting could be further from the truth.
     
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    BLEE

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    so im going to expand on this a bit, because you arent wrong with what you wrote....but its close to a common misconception i hear frequently that "knifes require a great deal of skill to be effective" and that "if you dont have training, a knife is useless" .....

    a lot of people think knife fights are like they are in west side story, or that knife fighting has a lot of choreographed moves like sword fighting...when in reality, knife fighting is a lot like a prison shanking.....it is quick, ugly, brutal and over quick.

    those guys in prisons have a body count that will put any trained knife fighter to shame...and they do it with simple in and out jabs until the victim stops moving....it is a very low skill but highly effective attack.


    now, onto what you actually said......"edged weapons require a great deal of training to use effectively to stop the attacker and avoid cutting ones self. "

    that AND is the important part...the most important aspect of that training is to prevent you from injuring yourself......you dont need fine control and practice to hurt someone else with a knife.......you DO need that fine control and practice to prevent you from hurting yourself with a knife.


    i wanted to point this out because a lot of people hear "knifes require skill"....and 1) decide not to bother using a knife for defensive means.....or even worse 2) disregard a knife as a true threat, assuming that thug isnt a danger with it......and noting could be further from the truth.
    I agree. Knives don't require much skill to use, but they can be used so much more efficiently, with a bit of instruction and practice.
     
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    diverdon

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    I agree. Knives don't require much skill to use, but they can be used so much more efficiently, with a bit of instruction and practice.
    I agree. Knives don't require much skill to use, but they can be used so much more efficiently, with a bit of instruction and practice.

    And further more Escrima is a skill that developes evasive movement with effective blocks that instantly turn to fast stabs and long slashes. It would be hard to overstate the level that a trained and practising Escrima/Arnis fighter has over untrained fighters in a knife fight. Think golden gloves boxer vs High school bully.
     

    502Chevelle

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    Enyo here for a size comparison. It is small, very lightweight and very concealable. Trust me, I understand running, and this little girl would be easy to tuck away, or wear as a neck knife. Don’t let the size fool you, she is a wicked little thing.
     

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    Leftie

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    Enyo here for a size comparison. It is small, very lightweight and very concealable. Trust me, I understand running, and this little girl would be easy to tuck away, or wear as a neck knife. Don’t let the size fool you, she is a wicked little thing.
    Not to hate on the Enyo, as it is a really capable blade, but I was not comfortable carrying mine for defensive purposes (and sold it) due to the fact that it wasn't as dependably accessed or safely deployed compared to SOCP or similar style blades. You can also choke up past the choil pretty easily and cut yourself when using a standard grip, which may make a difference for those who would carry it as a defensive knife. That's my personal preference though...
     

    Zebra1

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    Lots of good advise above regarding situational awareness and training. As to knife choice, as mentioned several times, I gave a Spyderco Delica to one of my daughters. However, I now would recommend an Esee Izula. Even with training, under stress and physical attack, simpler is better, Having to find that hole, stud or button/slide on an automatic to deploy a folder can be daunting. That is where SA pays off, have it deployed prior if possible. The Izula being a fixed blade that possible issue is not. It's sheath is pretty versatile and offers several mounting options, and it's blade length should pass muster in most municipalities. It is also now offered in a push dagger configuration, but that may be considered illegal in some jurisdictions.
     
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    JH1961

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    I am researching and will be purchasing a knife for my daughter to carry on her while running. She puts a lot of miles in mostly on trails so it needs to be light weight, have a secure carry system (that will not flop around and irritate / chafe her), be easy to access and deploy, can be carried under clothing. I am not looking for a “combat knife” that is capable of killing someone, rather something that can effectively deter an attack and create space / an opportunity to get away.

    I just wanted to reach out and see what I am missing in my search. Thank you
    Spyderco's Endura (serrated) and Delica (serrated) immediately come to mind. I'd also add pepper spray. Having options is always good.
     

    Lakotah

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    25D09BA6-A819-4EC2-B47D-907D0A9D619C.jpeg


    Made by VZ Grips. I added the 550 cord.l to the case.
    iIt’s the VZ Don Dagger. Very light, thin, made out of G10 so it’s strong. Great grip when ur hands are wet Great for jabbing.
    They have a couple more design options.
    Well worth it. Hope this helps
     
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    avalanche

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    So my daughter is only 7... but she's been in taekwondo classes for 2 years. Start em early. Sure she can't take on a full grown male in a fight, but she'd rip his eyes or balls out if he grabbed her and tried to drag her away. Not to mention I can't think of a time where would allow her out of arm's reach in public. We're over protective, and I'm ok with that.

    My boys are 10 and 11. They've done TKD for years too, but for them they are ready to be more situationally aware.

    My wife rides/runs/walks 10km away from home fairly often. She carry's one of my karambits with her, and knows how to use it. More importantly, we track each others phones (life 360 app is great!) so we know locations at all times.

    *I'm in Australia, so carrying a pistol isn't an option unfortunately*

    HIGHLY recommend the Spartan Blades Enyo. Perfect small blade for a woman. I carry the Phryke a lot and its beautiful.
     

    schmi015

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    Push dagger, push dagger, push dagger. @jbell from what you said and described, this fits the bill, somebody makes contact with her she pokes and pushes away and takes off running. Some grabbing or assaulting of female joggers has happened a couple of times on the nature trails just across from the Nike World Campus in Beaverton.
     

    Sidewinder66

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    I am researching and will be purchasing a knife for my daughter to carry on her while running. She puts a lot of miles in mostly on trails so it needs to be light weight, have a secure carry system (that will not flop around and irritate / chafe her), be easy to access and deploy, can be carried under clothing. I am not looking for a “combat knife” that is capable of killing someone, rather something that can effectively deter an attack and create space / an opportunity to get away.

    I just wanted to reach out and see what I am missing in my search. Thank you
    Try Spyderco knives, a Colorado company. There are also auto blades, this will be a solid knife, but deploys by pushing a button, and are very lethal, most attacker's won't be swayed buy a simple little pocket knife. And like a gun, she will need to train with it, muscle memory is important with any weapon.