- Thread starter Redmanss
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If you lived here you'd have all that and no union.
I've never met an unpaid apprentice. We start ours at 50%+ and give raises 10% per year for 4 years. It's up to them to get their books done and hours accounted to get the raises.
Pay and benefits are great for the area. I have much better than 99% of the people I know. Six figures doesn't mean much. I bought a house for less than $200k, and could do the same tomorrow. I make very good wages for the area, but I'll give it to you that it's because the unions made it so hard to get apprentices. We have a 3:1 ratio of journeyman to apprentice that keeps us from hiring fresh blood.
I've never worried about pensions.
I was on a job where the union carpenters got their pensions pushed back, and later on the plumbers got theirs pushed back. A year before I met a sprinkfitter who had to come back after 3 years of retirement, because they raised the pension from 30 to 35 years and he had only put in 33. He was forced to either put in the extra 2 years or get a huge cut as he was no longer qualified to recieve a full pension.
I'll save and invest myself, because then I'm relying on no one.
Unions suck. Govt. Unions for police, etc are full of shit, provide safe harbor to shits who shouldn't be employable and their pensions are just robbery on tax payers. If defunding the police also went for their crazy healthcare schemes and pensions then I'm for it frankly. Monumental waste of money.
If anyone on here riles and rages against 'commies' and has any sympathy for unions then you're a freaking hypocrite and should be snuffed out through asphyxiation by smothering of Hilary Clinton's snizz.
On the other hand, those coal miners were really getting fucked by the owners there for a while and unionization probably was a good thing then. But no more! Mmmkay?
If anyone on here riles and rages against 'commies' and has any sympathy for unions then you're a freaking hypocrite and should be snuffed out through asphyxiation by smothering of Hilary Clinton's snizz.
On the other hand, those coal miners were really getting fucked by the owners there for a while and unionization probably was a good thing then. But no more! Mmmkay?
Depends on the industry, depends on the Union, depends on who you have locally.
I can only comment on my little corner of the world. Most (over 80%) of our members locally are pretty hard core conservative. Nobody tells us how to vote. On a national level, we have dismembered a good portion of the “old boys network” and have put a complete stop to that crap on our councils locally. It’s membership driven and that’s what I bring to the table. I work for the people I represent. I don’t support the weak and lazy. As a matter of fact, I had a “come to Jesus call” last night with one of my more “incentively challenged“ members. I told him that I will not be supporting his laziness and that he needs to make a decision on his path forward. If he gets the carpet dance in front of HR I will represent him, but will not lie nor feed the company any bullshit on his behalf. I have an excellent working relationship with my management counterparts and frequently we both “take off our hats” in order to do what’s best.
All of this I do for free. It’s non paid and volunteer work. My phone rings at all hours of the day and night, my dinners and home life have been interrupted for the past 4 years. My term is due up in the spring and as a firm believer in term limits, I will not run again. My position should not be a career job, regardless of the volunteer aspect. People getting entrenched is how shit goes south in any kind of representative organization or system. The union I am associated with has done more for the public and it’s safety the past 75+ years that can even be summarized. It is fairly apolitical.
I disagree with your contention all union is evil, and those involved are hypocrites.
I can only comment on my little corner of the world. Most (over 80%) of our members locally are pretty hard core conservative. Nobody tells us how to vote. On a national level, we have dismembered a good portion of the “old boys network” and have put a complete stop to that crap on our councils locally. It’s membership driven and that’s what I bring to the table. I work for the people I represent. I don’t support the weak and lazy. As a matter of fact, I had a “come to Jesus call” last night with one of my more “incentively challenged“ members. I told him that I will not be supporting his laziness and that he needs to make a decision on his path forward. If he gets the carpet dance in front of HR I will represent him, but will not lie nor feed the company any bullshit on his behalf. I have an excellent working relationship with my management counterparts and frequently we both “take off our hats” in order to do what’s best.
All of this I do for free. It’s non paid and volunteer work. My phone rings at all hours of the day and night, my dinners and home life have been interrupted for the past 4 years. My term is due up in the spring and as a firm believer in term limits, I will not run again. My position should not be a career job, regardless of the volunteer aspect. People getting entrenched is how shit goes south in any kind of representative organization or system. The union I am associated with has done more for the public and it’s safety the past 75+ years that can even be summarized. It is fairly apolitical.
I disagree with your contention all union is evil, and those involved are hypocrites.
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@eicas
The stuff that bothered me when I flew for a company whose "high speed aluminum tube operators" were organized under the big A were a lot of the lawyers... the local MEC/LEC could not put a message out without 12 "national" lawyers looking at it and completely ruining the message... So they stopped communicating overall except to say "please call your rep"... that was the ONLY way to get the truth out. Because Big A didnt want to piss in anybodies cheerios... Because at the same time we were operating as a feeder for XXX, Big A also represented their operators... So they had a HUGE conflict of interest, although they would constantly say they didnt and everybody was independent, etc... because they needed the money to keep coming in. My old man did union work under the A banner for like 25 years and he said back in the early 80's when the regional industry really started to take off that A needed to separate the two sides, but they never did and that lead to somebody who serves two masters...
The other thing that I thought was hilarious when I was there was that the professional staff at national was unionized AND WENT ON STRIKE because national refused to negotiate with them in good faith while AT THE SAME TIME shouting that the big companies they had people working under wouldnt negotiate in good faith... Pot meet kettle....
I stand by you on the safety front and that is lost on probably 98% of the membership. I did safety work over there... great apparatus... I do safety work under my current indy union and we have great people and great backing, but we are not a huge juggernaut that has a ton of resources... I believe we borrow from A quite a bit(although probably never publicly admit that LOL).
The stuff that bothered me when I flew for a company whose "high speed aluminum tube operators" were organized under the big A were a lot of the lawyers... the local MEC/LEC could not put a message out without 12 "national" lawyers looking at it and completely ruining the message... So they stopped communicating overall except to say "please call your rep"... that was the ONLY way to get the truth out. Because Big A didnt want to piss in anybodies cheerios... Because at the same time we were operating as a feeder for XXX, Big A also represented their operators... So they had a HUGE conflict of interest, although they would constantly say they didnt and everybody was independent, etc... because they needed the money to keep coming in. My old man did union work under the A banner for like 25 years and he said back in the early 80's when the regional industry really started to take off that A needed to separate the two sides, but they never did and that lead to somebody who serves two masters...
The other thing that I thought was hilarious when I was there was that the professional staff at national was unionized AND WENT ON STRIKE because national refused to negotiate with them in good faith while AT THE SAME TIME shouting that the big companies they had people working under wouldnt negotiate in good faith... Pot meet kettle....
I stand by you on the safety front and that is lost on probably 98% of the membership. I did safety work over there... great apparatus... I do safety work under my current indy union and we have great people and great backing, but we are not a huge juggernaut that has a ton of resources... I believe we borrow from A quite a bit(although probably never publicly admit that LOL).
They made it personal. There's no walking that back.
AND I bet no one drove a Ford.
Yeah, why leave the program and take on responsibility? For that 10%, you don't have to deal with the politics. But I do know that you time out after 4 years, but if not, I'd stay an apprentice. The poolitics is what ruins ever job. Not governmental politics, but the politics of having to appease everyone.
It’s a great career foundational in safety and intelligence. The close pay differential is more about getting the right people in place from the start, and the apprenticeship training is a structured two year program provided by the company with four classes/testing phases along with OJT, where failure of any of them results in dismissal. Anyone dismissed for failure of the program will likely never be hired again by any Class 1 railroad in signaling. Those who make it through typically take it all the way to retirement, we have very low turnover in comparison to most industries and companies.
Dude, you are talking out of your ass.
Once you retire you're done,PERIOD.
I don't mind some of the bashing but I will draw the line at outright lying.
I bet you eat lunch alone a lot.
Ill
Say when.
Otherwise keep your fucking small minded pie hole shut, unless you're using it at the local glory hole.
It's quite obvious you don't actually speak from an informed position.
Your tripe reads like a Reddit thread.
You want me to send you my address so you can come snuff me out tough guy?
Say when.
Otherwise keep your fucking small minded pie hole shut, unless you're using it at the local glory hole.
It's quite obvious you don't actually speak from an informed position.
Your tripe reads like a Reddit thread.
Unions can be a good thing and they can be bad a thing.
When I belonged to the WPPA, didn't pay much for dues, did my job (Corrections) and did it to the best of my abilities. Never had any litigation(s) brought against me for anything "stupid". So there's that.
Civil Service wise, I think all we had was a "Bargaining Unit", if I remember correctly. No A/C I maintained, ever turned into a "lawn dart", because, I was too lazy to do my job (was an Instructor also). Still, as with all jobs I've had, I've always did the best I could and have NEVER sucked any dick
, Union, or not.
Mac
When I belonged to the WPPA, didn't pay much for dues, did my job (Corrections) and did it to the best of my abilities. Never had any litigation(s) brought against me for anything "stupid". So there's that.
Civil Service wise, I think all we had was a "Bargaining Unit", if I remember correctly. No A/C I maintained, ever turned into a "lawn dart", because, I was too lazy to do my job (was an Instructor also). Still, as with all jobs I've had, I've always did the best I could and have NEVER sucked any dick
, Union, or not.Mac
I have nothing against someone working non union trying to make a life for themselves and their family.
I know a lot of people that are non union, they could ply their craft ANYWHERE and make it
Unions are not the end all be all,believe me I know.
So with that out of the way, for my craft IUOE it works like this.
During a 4 year apprenticeship they make a percentage of scale per year with an increase ONCE THEY SKILL TEST and pass.
In my local we start them out @ 50% of scale.
As for incentives, I'll tell you this if you think sliding by is all there is to it you're sadly mistaken.
As a superintendent and a journeyman it's my job to mentor, teach and forgive an apprentice.
But once you become a journeyman you better know what the fuck you are doing because if you don't you'll be gone within the first two hours before you get a chance to kill someone.
And about the above statement, 99.999% of the times that I've had someone show up on one of my jobs that doesn't know what they are doing it's a PERMIT hand.
IE- someone thinking my job is easy, it's usually some shitbird from out of state following the pipeline around.
Think about this, if you are a Pipefitter, Ironworker or a Pipeliner etc are you willing to trust your life with the shitbird?
I've been in the trade since the early 80's
I can tell you with almost certainty which ones are going to make it by watching them for a few hours.
Someone mentioned Ohio going down the shitter because of the Unions and how the Unions starved them to the point they had to move out of state,I call bullshit.
There's a lot of people working in Ohio at a fair wage in non union places, so why did you move?
Dude,I can go anywhere on the fucking planet with my knowledge and skill and make a living, I sure as fuck wouldn't break camp and blame the union.
Now to break the myth of unions all being straight Democrat.
Up until 2016 that held true here until my local ( IUOE 18 ) had Trump to our training centers twice.
The first time it happened the staff at the Richfield training center threatened to quit if Cleveland welcomed him.
Yeah, they quit, they begged for their jobs back then bad mouthed every one because of their decision.
I laugh at fake mother fuckers like that.
If you're a man and make a decision you and only you need to live with it.
I was royally screwed but “Big A” twice in my earlier career. I get it trust me. I think it has changed a bit as the ”feeder” industry has also matured a whole lot since I first warmed a seat in 1985. I really believe that you get out of it what you put into it as an individual group. I’m currently associated with the Inuit. I was previously associated with the recording/philanthropy/spaceship mogul (isn’t code fun!
) The two of us got together and hammered it out after the merger. It’s an entirely different union group since that happened...for both sides and for the better. The “lawyer aspect” is still there, but that’s an individual thing too. We didn’t care for the one that worked with us and got another. Much better, much more aggressive, fewer golf outings with management. Again, it’s up to the individual groups within “Big A” to somewhat treat it like a’ la carte and take or dismiss what they need...to an extent...and ignore the rest as necessary. You have to get good folks in there too. Those that are in it for the right reasons. I was sought out, I did not pursue it. Now my task is to search out the person who will replace me. I’m burned out, my BP is up, and I’m ready for my negotiated extended break. 
I drink canyon blue kool-aid.... or whatever shade of blue we are this decade...
❤
actually I think thats it now...
Our guys are pretty good, but there are a few who have attempted to overstay their welcome by trying to get special jobs created for them to keep them in the office... I have worked with those guys and they are all good guys, but I dont like when people go out of their way to get special jobs created for them... One of them was a VP for 2 terms(termed out), had a special job created for him by a previous president(who didnt get re-elected shortly thereafter), just ran again for VP after 3 years(I guess your term limit expires after 1 term off), but got defeated because he played to many games and people felt he was to cozy with certain people... And a relatively junior(compared to who normally holds that job) guy got voted in, who the president doesnt like...LOL... Here's our check and balance... mr. president...
❤ actually I think thats it now...Our guys are pretty good, but there are a few who have attempted to overstay their welcome by trying to get special jobs created for them to keep them in the office... I have worked with those guys and they are all good guys, but I dont like when people go out of their way to get special jobs created for them... One of them was a VP for 2 terms(termed out), had a special job created for him by a previous president(who didnt get re-elected shortly thereafter), just ran again for VP after 3 years(I guess your term limit expires after 1 term off), but got defeated because he played to many games and people felt he was to cozy with certain people... And a relatively junior(compared to who normally holds that job) guy got voted in, who the president doesnt like...LOL... Here's our check and balance... mr. president...
take it easy. the open positions at the glory hole center have all been filled but I'm hopeful.
Secondly, please realize just because you don't like what I'm saying about your shitty union doesn't mean I have to shut up.
Thirdly no, dude, don't want your address because I don't have Hilary's snizz on hand. It's back at the shop. It was fairly obviously a joke but it's interesting to see how quickly you like to escalate.
There is zero need for collective bargaining in a govt. role that NOONE is forcing you to enter. None. You don't have to be a teacher, or a cop, or a DMV worker and there's no reason why you should have collective bargaining. Every freaking budget time, oh it's for the kids, oh it's for safety, oh it's for this or that. Meanwhile, standards fall, we get tenured shitty teachers who can't be fired, shitty cops who won't be exposed by their 'brothers', ridiculous benefits/pensions and retirement policies that are nothing like what the VAST majority of private sector people have to deal with.
And then, on top of that, you guys get all cute with your abuses of power - asset forfeiture, predatory ticketing, your unconstitutional searches and stops, your no knock warrants and then ZERO culpability when you totally and utterly fuck up, kill people who were doing nothing wrong and you turn around and say "it's a hard job and you weren't there". No tough guy, you shut the fuck up and listen to US who are done with this crap. No-one begged you to come police us. No one told you you couldn't take that Wall St. job and you had to put on a badge. And to top it off, time and again, we see you lot, all armoured and ganged up, coming to take people's only means of defense in times and places where private ownership of a gun is essential and you do it because a politician told you to do that and hey, 'but muh pension'.
Get the hell out of here with your anger.
I'm split. Growing up in Michigan I saw what the UAW did to the auto industry in the 80s and 90s. You look how Henry Ford treated his employees and yeah, unions sound great. But fast forward and at some point they were more about how much power they had and could push GM around. Both sides attitudes devolved to point where GM pulled stakes and moved out of the country. I felt this was a cheap, punk manuever by GM and will never own a GM product because of how wrong they treated Flint. But I blame the UAW more for not not working with GM to let them modernize in the 80s, or to protect workers that needed to be fired (a favorite TV news article in the 90s was filming auto workers drinking alcohol and smoking pot in the parking lot and going back to work).
My wife joined a state level teachers union and it has been great. It is nice to see an organization that represents their members. Not just use them as a number to boost political clout. Her union has offered courses and materials to help prep teachers for online instruction, and at lot better quality than FCPS is doing.
My wife joined a state level teachers union and it has been great. It is nice to see an organization that represents their members. Not just use them as a number to boost political clout. Her union has offered courses and materials to help prep teachers for online instruction, and at lot better quality than FCPS is doing.
A union, any union is only interested in increasing their membership. That's how they make money.
Nope. His pension contract with his local was fucked. Their pension was in the red so that was the fix.
Ever read every line of those contracts you sign? You should try it sometime.
Your generalities display your ignorance.
Like I said, your tripe reads like a Reddit thread.
Thank you for reinforcement of my observation.
Just another closet liberal, hiding among real Americans.
I'm done petting you, I have real things to do with my time.
We have plans tonight, living life with other thinking people.
that's good. Life should be lived. Enjoy, be safe and get some hugs in, I think you'd benefit.
As for being a 'real American'. Pal, if you're pro-Union than you're about as American as "Made in China". But that's just me being a closet liberal.. sshhh....
You should stick to cheerleading for Chevrolet that just may be something you know about.
I drink canyon blue kool-aid.... or whatever shade of blue we are this decade...
Our guys are pretty good, but there are a few who have attempted to overstay their welcome by trying to get special jobs created for them to keep them in the office... I have worked with those guys and they are all good guys, but I dont like when people go out of their way to get special jobs created for them... One of them was a VP for 2 terms(termed out), had a special job created for him by a previous president(who didnt get re-elected shortly thereafter), just ran again for VP after 3 years(I guess your term limit expires after 1 term off), but got defeated because he played to many games and people felt he was to cozy with certain people... And a relatively junior(compared to who normally holds that job) guy got voted in, who the president doesnt like...LOL... Here's our check and balance... mr. president...
If I read that right, I’d say we both drink from the same Texas kool aid dispenser...
I just got my quarterly 28 page union rag and it wasn’t until page 15 that the blatant “vote blue no matter who” rhetoric started. I’m putting it back in the mailbox with “return to sender” tomorrow and I’ll be calling to tell them not to ever send me this propaganda again.
I dont think I get those at the house... Just the ones intended for family I think... The ones in the lounge mailbox I typically put right back on the table.
Make sure you take off your name and address first. Otherwise two guys from the local pipe fitters union (why else would someone have 3' lead pipes in their hands?) will meet you when you are out of your safe space to discuss the benefits of mob, err, union brotherhood. And dissent isn't appreciated. LOL
not in our union LOL... We are a white collar union with a lot of guys who talk a big game on facebook and the internal union forum, but call them out in person and suddenly... like a scared turtle... head up their ass... or something like that.
I happen to have sat on our board for 10 years, I understand how it works.
When a pension goes red the government takes over.
Unions have to submit quarterly statements to make sure the funds are being managed and for the reason to keep the pay outs solvent if their investments tank.
Dude, just stop with your bullshit you have no clue as to it works other than hearsay.
Yeah, I’ll get right on that. Thanks for the tip.
You're not shitting about the low turn over rate. I have known the same people since 1998. I have seen a lot of people retire and younger guys come in to fill their spots. I am on the supplier side.
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The two organizations are much the same in my eyes. Started as a legitimate idea. Sold the idea to people who believed in the cause. Then got too big, too powerful and forgot about the real reason they became.
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