Rifle Scopes  Vortex Razor HD Gen III 1-10x

Sabre672

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I don’t see a huge 1-6 Razor sale happening. Some will but they are two different scopes that each do their intended job quite well.
Just curious as to your perspective on the 1-6, comparison to the 1-10. If price were the same, I don’t see any reason for myself at least, where I would choose the 1-6. The weight is the same and the 1-10 essentially does the same thing on the low end, with additional capabilities at max magnification and depending on reticle choice, an additional envelope. The 1-6 seems like a fine optic, but it’s in the 1-8 or above weight class. I can understand if I were on a budget attempting to secure best bang for buck. Maybe I’m missing something. Again, I’m curious.
 

erwos

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I can understand if I were on a budget attempting to secure best bang for buck.
You pretty much answered your own question. A lot of guys are just not going to see a lot of added value from the Gen3 over their Gen2s, because they just don't need to stretch to distances that 10x would come into play. Why pay eight hundred bucks (plus) more for a Gen3 that's not delivering much more value to them? If money were equal, yes, I'd argue that the Gen3 is an objectively better scope than the Gen2 in every way, but the money isn't actually equal.

We're kind of in a fun echo chamber here with people buying scopes that are $1k-$5k+. Outside, 95% of gun owners think a Vortex SE 1-8x at $300 is super expensive and as much LPVO as anyone could ever need.
 
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Glassaholic

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    We're kind of in a fun echo chamber here with people buying scopes that are $1k-$5k+. Outside, 95% of gun owners think a Vortex SE 1-8x at $300 is super expensive and as much LPVO as anyone could ever need.

    I miss those days - thinking $300 was a lot of money for a scope... now I pay 10x that o_O
     

    Rob01

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    Just curious as to your perspective on the 1-6, comparison to the 1-10. If price were the same, I don’t see any reason for myself at least, where I would choose the 1-6. The weight is the same and the 1-10 essentially does the same thing on the low end, with additional capabilities at max magnification and depending on reticle choice, an additional envelope. The 1-6 seems like a fine optic, but it’s in the 1-8 or above weight class. I can understand if I were on a budget attempting to secure best bang for buck. Maybe I’m missing something. Again, I’m curious.

    As mentioend it comes to bang for the buck but also use. The 1-6x is a great optic for what it is and meant to do which is a 3 gun mid range optic. With the added reticle additions in the 1-10 you extend the range while still giving the low power as well. With the 1-6x you don't really need FFP as when you are using the scope BDC then you will be on 6x for past 200 yards. With the 1-10 you get the FFP as you are now holding for 6-10x as well and you have the added marks which allow for holds to much farther ranges with both the MOA and Mil versions. It all comes down to what the end user needs but both have their place.
     
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    Sabre672

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    You pretty much answered your own question. A lot of guys are just not going to see a lot of added value from the Gen3 over their Gen2s, because they just don't need to stretch to distances that 10x would come into play. Why pay eight hundred bucks (plus) more for a Gen3 that's not delivering much more value to them? If money were equal, yes, I'd argue that the Gen3 is an objectively better scope than the Gen2 in every way, but the money isn't actually equal.

    We're kind of in a fun echo chamber here with people buying scopes that are $1k-$5k+. Outside, 95% of gun owners think a Vortex SE 1-8x at $300 is super expensive and as much LPVO as anyone could ever need.

    I didn’t answer my own question. My question to Rob01, which he answered, was to his utterances, that lead me to believe, that he felt that 1-6 had feature sets that were applicable to the end user outside of price over the 1-10. To which, I queried. I prefaced to exclude price and focus on features.

    As far as price and merit that determines applicability of any piece of kits relevance to demographic of gun owners, I don’t pretend to have the purview to tell people what they need, or what they can afford.

    Great point on the end user not needing capabilities 10X, again in context of budget. I’m currently looking for a lighter lower power 1-6. So for me at least, considering the weight of the Vortex, I’d either spend the extra $ for the 1-10 or the extra $ on a lighter 1-6.
     
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    DL32

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    Got mine! MRAD. I have a lot of really good LPVO’s and other glass. S&B dual CC, Swaro 1-8, Kales 1-6, Elcan 1x/4x, T2 + new version of 3x mag, EOTech...

    Initial observations:

    Turrets/Clicks are solid. S&B is the cream of the crop for turrets. S&B style turrets would have been Awsome at a price of course. Illumination is legit in terms of strength. S&B DFP is the most well thought out. That said, vortex made a great reticle for Dual purpose on one plane. Elcan is also very well thought out.

    Glass is not as good as Swaro/S&B. How much of difference, somewhat noticeable yet still very very good. But, 1x on the vortex is fantastic and the freedom you have behind it is exceptional. Tube edge really disappears (my first vortex). I got it more for 1x with the option to zoom than the opposite and it does just that + some.

    No illumination on 1x during daytime is not a problem. Dusk/Night, illumination is required. 10x is Not as picky as I expected. Getting behind it is not an issue, for me it’s about head position for reticle clarity. 10x Glass clarity and brightness are not An issue given scope purpose/type. It’s pretty amazing that 10x is as usable as it is. I’m impressed overall.

    Definitely not regretting the purchase for the purpose I had in mind a very well executed optic by Vortex.
     

    DL32

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    Btw, S&B is on 17 and the g3 is on a 16.

    Seems a little backwards I know, But it does achieve the purpose of the respective rigs.
     

    vigildom7

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    So what's the consensus on the MIL vs MOA/BDC reticle. I use mil on all my precision rifles
    But feel the BDC if accurate is better for a fast targeting type rifle. What's everyones experience.
     

    erwos

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    Btw, S&B is on 17 and the g3 is on a 16.

    Seems a little backwards I know, But it does achieve the purpose of the respective rigs.
    Nah. I've got an SMRS 1-8.5x on my 18" AR-308 and am putting my incoming Razor Gen3 on an 18" AR-15. If I need to make distance shots on that 308, I'm dialing, and the SMRS is a great LPVO to dial with. I doubt 2x of magnification is going to make or break in that situation.

    So what's the consensus on the MIL vs MOA/BDC reticle. I use mil on all my precision rifles
    But feel the BDC if accurate is better for a fast targeting type rifle. What's everyones experience.
    There's no consensus position because it's all about what you're using the rifle for. The MOA reticle is a multi-gun / BDC reticle. If you are running it on an AR-15 with ammo that lines up to the BDC, MOA is a very good option if you're just going to leave it there forever (or until your next hot new scope). Otherwise, MIL is the way to fly for flexibility.
     

    Sabre672

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    Got mine! MRAD. I have a lot of really good LPVO’s and other glass. S&B dual CC, Swaro 1-8, Kales 1-6, Elcan 1x/4x, T2 + new version of 3x mag, EOTech...

    Initial observations:

    Turrets/Clicks are solid. S&B is the cream of the crop for turrets. S&B style turrets would have been Awsome at a price of course. Illumination is legit in terms of strength. S&B DFP is the most well thought out. That said, vortex made a great reticle for Dual purpose on one plane. Elcan is also very well thought out.

    Glass is not as good as Swaro/S&B. How much of difference, somewhat noticeable yet still very very good. But, 1x on the vortex is fantastic and the freedom you have behind it is exceptional. Tube edge really disappears (my first vortex). I got it more for 1x with the option to zoom than the opposite and it does just that + some.

    No illumination on 1x during daytime is not a problem. Dusk/Night, illumination is required. 10x is Not as picky as I expected. Getting behind it is not an issue, for me it’s about head position for reticle clarity. 10x Glass clarity and brightness are not An issue given scope purpose/type. It’s pretty amazing that 10x is as usable as it is. I’m impressed overall.

    Definitely not regretting the purchase for the purpose I had in mind a very well executed optic by Vortex.

    Thanks for the comparison. You had me at PMII Dual CC. The S&B is my new ideal dream optic for any SPR, RECCE-ish build, light or heavy. Especially the MDR-T6 reticle. This optic intrigue me as much as my MK8 H27D once did. I can’t think of a single kink in the S&B’s armor, for a DMR leaning optic on a gasser. Do you have a separate thread where you’ve posted your review?
     

    Rob01

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    So what's the consensus on the MIL vs MOA/BDC reticle. I use mil on all my precision rifles
    But feel the BDC if accurate is better for a fast targeting type rifle. What's everyones experience.

    Personal preference and use. As I said I liked the JM-1 BDC in the 1-6x and that is why I got the MOA BDC in the 1-10. Scope will be on either my .223 or .308 so will work perfect as I explained in my post above. I use mil scopes on all my precision rifles also but this is a different use optic for me.
     

    DL32

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    Thanks for the comparison. You had me at PMII Dual CC. The S&B is my new ideal dream optic for any SPR, RECCE-ish build, light or heavy. Especially the MDR-T6 reticle. This optic intrigue me as much as my MK8 H27D once did. I can’t think of a single kink in the S&B’s armor, for a DMR leaning optic on a gasser. Do you have a separate thread where you’ve posted your review?


    Never did a review on it. The dual cc is just really great optic and better suited for 8x than what I like in my 1X scopes. Not saying 1x isn't damn good, just that 8x is fantastic. Mine has the MDR-T6 and not too much to say other than it's very well designed.

    If you have any questions, I'm happy to address. i agree that this is perfect for an SPR with 1x benefits. i see the vortex exactly the opposite. I use it for 1x but can zoom out when needed. I'm liking what the vortex did with the gen 3.
     
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    chrome

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    So, Vortex has lifetime warranty, right? Will it cover the new permanent red dot I have burned into my eyeballz? Holy shit this thing is bright at max setting!

    Got it into today, had a spare Scalarworks mount I threw mine into, higher rings @ 1.97, fits my anatomy well. I will primarily be using this on 13.7in SBR and 16in builds. No range time yet, but will get out this weekend. Initial finger fucking suggests mag ring is super smooth. Upon initial assessment, eyebox isn't AS forgiving as I had hoped, but maybe not a fair assessment given I haven't had a chance to put it in weird positions/barricades etc.

    More to follow.

    20200430_201042.jpg
     
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    Sabre672

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    My 13.8” build with the Vortex RG3 1-10 (top pic). I’m going to run it next week and see how I like it. If it shakes out I may switch some optics around...
    The RG3 was on my 14.5” 7.62 (2nd picture below)as I thought it was well suited for that rifle. It does work very well for it. After using it out to 800 yards yesterday, I noticed the center dot covers a great deal of the AR500 Silhouette. Still useable. So depending how it shakes out, I may move my MK8 H27D to my shorter 7.62 and get a MK5 for Green 7.62. If not, it’ll go back or I’ll buy another RG3.

    feels good on the 5.56 though...



    Gs2IkK8.jpg
    p9F2IoG.jpg
     

    CrabsandFootball

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    Played with the 1-10 today (not on a rifle) and thought the eye box was pretty tight, even though its hard to tell when its not mounted. Dot is excellent on 1x but the illumination bleed is pretty bad at magnification.

    Ill probably pick one or 2 up later in the year once the MRADS are available.

    If anyone is looking for a BDC version at retail ($2k), shoot me a PM and i will tell you a gun store that has one in stock.
     

    schlaiek

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    the more time I spend, the more enamored I've become with it. I spend quite a bit of time today banging steel at various distances with my RG3/MDRX & DD AR/NX8. unless the size difference is the most important factor, RG3 is pretty clearly the winner imo. the glass quality/brightness is good enough in both cases. where the RG3 wins is eyebox, it just disappears like the RG2 - something the NX8 doesn't do. I also like the Vortex reticle better, and the lack of locking/covered elevation on the NX8 is a miss.

    I really wish I had an ATACR and/or 1-8s from Kahles, Minox, and the 1-10 from March.
     
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    Sogan

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    Are these still back ordered for quite a while or are they becoming more and more available?
     

    phlegethon

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    Are these still back ordered for quite a while or are they becoming more and more available?
    I preordered from MKMachining, haven’t heard anything yet. I assume supply is going to be limited for a while.
     

    Sabre672

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    Anyone have any hands on with the Valdada IOR Lts 2 1-10x26mm? I’ve never seen this optic until this morning.
     

    g22rmr

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    Are these still back ordered for quite a while or are they becoming more and more available?
    I pre-ordered in February from Optics Planet and received it last week. Just waiting for the mount to show up this week.
     

    erwos

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    Shot mine from 7-300yds at a carbine class. It's magnificent. The issue with the tips of the sixes being illuminated is a total non-issue when you're using this on a gun at speed in a class or match. The 7-10x range really starts to shine on small targets at distance (we were banging some steel, and I had an easier time seeing some of the smaller ones).
     
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    chrome

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    Shot mine from 7-300yds at a carbine class. It's magnificent. The issue with the tips of the sixes being illuminated is a total non-issue when you're using this on a gun at speed in a class or match. The 7-10x range really starts to shine on small targets at distance (we were banging some steel, and I had an easier time seeing some of the smaller ones).

    How'd you feel about the eye box in low power around objects and/or awkward positions?
     
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    erwos

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    How'd you feel about the eye box in low power around objects and/or awkward positions?
    This is sort of a tough one, because I am cross-eye dominant and using scopes both eyes open is very challenging for me. The eybox is obviously worse than a reflex sight. I would say this manifested more during transition practice (and we are talking fast .25s transitions here) than it did when we were running through ports on the VTAC barricades. Some of this could very well be on me for not being disciplined with my cheek weld, I don't know.

    Now, all of that said, as LPVOs go, I thought the eyebox was quite good, and I had fewer problems shooting prone than I have had with other LPVOs (fat guy prone is a hard position). And, again, if you spend the time to set up the scope correctly for easy 10x usage, you will be good to go through the entire magnification range.
     
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    kukworld

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    Just got my RG3 today. I notice my illumination is not as bright as what everyone describe as nuclear bright. When I put the battery came from the factory, at 1 setting, I couldn’t see any , I would need to crack it up to setting 5 in order to see any illumination. I suspect it’s the battery, so I put Duracell in there and now at setting 1, I can see little of illumination and at setting 11, the reticle is bright enough.
     

    flm3

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    Another video of a dude shooting the gen 3 razor at night, lots of footage from behind the scope -
     
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    trouble-maker

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    Remember the good ol' days when we would bad mouth my favorite scope for an SBR: the NXS 2.5-10x24. I guess times change.
    The 'issue' was the 24 tube wouldn't perform in low-light. Not the lack of 1x, which as a couple posts have mentioned, isn't the best for fast acquisition anyway. If you need 1x, the target is prolly close enough to point shoot. If that's difficult, run a spuhr mount with an aimpoint t2.
    Would still rather have a nxs2.5-10 w/red dot than the nx8 1-8. I love my vortex razor hd II 4.5-27, but 3k for 1-10, c'mon vortex.
     

    Rob01

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    Yup if you pay $3k for one you are a sucker.

    And 1x is useful for more than just point shooting distance.
     

    trouble-maker

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    If you pay $3k for the 1-10, c'mon man.
    Was going off the 3k on page one of this thread. Google-fu shows they are now in the realm of reason at 2k. Still a little inflated. My main point is how the viewpoint of 24 tubes and scopes of this class have changed.
     

    Rob01

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    Sure, but if you need fast acquisition, it isn't optimal.

    It is in the Razors as they are basically a red dot at 1x. Both eyes open and bring it up and the dot is right there. Just like the 1-6 Razor II.
     

    cleric

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    Was going off the 3k on page one of this thread. Google-fu shows they are now in the realm of reason at 2k. Still a little inflated. My main point is how the viewpoint of 24 tubes and scopes of this class have changed.

    I agree there has Been a change but some of it is product grouping. Nightforce was thought of as a long range company and most people were thinking of the the nxs as something being used at 5-7x most frequently, with the occasional 2.5. I think most people view this as primarily 1-6x with the occasional 8-10x for when you really need mag.

    i think if this was 1-8 people would still really like it. The features are great, the extra mag is the sweetener.
     

    trouble-maker

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    I agree there has Been a change but some of it is product grouping. Nightforce was thought of as a long range company and most people were thinking of the the nxs as something being used at 5-7x most frequently, with the occasional 2.5. I think most people view this as primarily 1-6x with the occasional 8-10x for when you really need mag.

    i think if this was 1-8 people would still really like it. The features are great, the extra mag is the sweetener.
    m'eh, no, it was really just herd mentality. A couple 'experts' say the 2.5-10x24 is 'bad' and everyone follows. I guess all those experts are dead now since they aren't complaining about the 24 tubes. actually, it's all quite amusing.
    If I was to get a 1x-something, yes, the vortex additional 10 top end is 'better', but I'm no expert.
     

    Rob01

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    I guess @erwos needs some more practice to handle the less forgiving glass.

    Can't speak for him but he actually gave some explaination so you can go back and read it but having used the 1-6x Razor since 2013 and having this scope and using it I can say it is right there with the 1-6x on 1x. Fast and easy to get on target.

    Do you own either or you just coming here to live up to your name?
     

    wizzles

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    Got mine! MRAD. I have a lot of really good LPVO’s and other glass. S&B dual CC, Swaro 1-8, Kales 1-6, Elcan 1x/4x, T2 + new version of 3x mag, EOTech...

    Initial observations:

    Turrets/Clicks are solid. S&B is the cream of the crop for turrets. S&B style turrets would have been Awsome at a price of course. Illumination is legit in terms of strength. S&B DFP is the most well thought out. That said, vortex made a great reticle for Dual purpose on one plane. Elcan is also very well thought out.

    Glass is not as good as Swaro/S&B. How much of difference, somewhat noticeable yet still very very good. But, 1x on the vortex is fantastic and the freedom you have behind it is exceptional. Tube edge really disappears (my first vortex). I got it more for 1x with the option to zoom than the opposite and it does just that + some.

    No illumination on 1x during daytime is not a problem. Dusk/Night, illumination is required. 10x is Not as picky as I expected. Getting behind it is not an issue, for me it’s about head position for reticle clarity. 10x Glass clarity and brightness are not An issue given scope purpose/type. It’s pretty amazing that 10x is as usable as it is. I’m impressed overall.

    Definitely not regretting the purchase for the purpose I had in mind a very well executed optic by Vortex.
    Thanks for the mini review, great insight
     

    trouble-maker

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    Can't speak for him but he actually gave some explaination so you can go back and read it but having used the 1-6x Razor since 2013 and having this scope and using it I can say it is right there with the 1-6x on 1x. Fast and easy to get on target.

    Do you own either or you just coming here to live up to your name?
    How would getting into the eyebox fast at 1x differ from 2.5? Not much, an eyebox is an eyebox. So, I guess he has to practice for 7 more years. How exactly am I causing trouble, by pointing out the obvious? Thanks for reminding me what a bunch of special keyboard operators frequent this place though.
     

    Rob01

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    How would getting into the eyebox fast at 1x differ from 2.5? Not much, an eyebox is an eyebox. So, I guess he has to practice for 7 more years. How exactly am I causing trouble, by pointing out the obvious? Thanks for reminding me what a bunch of special keyboard operators frequent this place though.

    LOL ok "no expert". If you don;t know how 1x would be better than 2.5x for quick close shots then you must be one of those frequenting. LOL
     

    trouble-maker

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    LOL ok "no expert". If you don;t know how 1x would be better than 2.5x for quick close shots then you must be one of those frequenting. LOL
    Where did I say 1x would Not be better for close shots at 2.5x? Close shots for 2.5x is awkward at best due to the magnification, not the slightly more enforced eyebox than of 1x. That's why I suggested 2.5-10 plus a T2 and that 1x still has an eyebox issue different than a red dot.
    Is 1x the same as a T2, Mr. Expert?
     
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