Rifle Scopes  Vortex Razor HD Gen III 1-10x

Rob01

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is 1x the same as a T2, Mr. Expert?

Where did I say I was an expert? Oh yeah I didn't but you said you were "no expert". Not an expert and never claimed to be but have hands on with both and one for many years so just giving the experience with both. Do you have either?

And don't own a T2 so can't say but it's the same as some other red dots I have. Actually a little better as the eye piece is bigger so it's larger area to look through.
 

erwos

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Geez, am I getting quoted as bashing the gen3? I think it's a phenomenal scope and am glad I bought one.

I guess @erwos needs some more practice to handle the less forgiving glass.
Just to be clear, 1) I don't think I'm some carbine master and never portrayed myself as such, and 2) on something like an "up" drill, I'm just as fast with a Gen3 as I am a reflex sight.

When you get into movement-while-shooting, fast transitions, and shooting from awkward positions, this is when the eyebox constraints start coming into play. Anyone who claims any LPVO is "just like" a reflex sight at 1x is just not doing the kind of shooting I'm doing. I'm fine with saying that the trade-offs strongly favor the LPVO in the aggregate, but let's not exaggerate what doesn't need to be exaggerated.
 

cleric

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m'eh, no, it was really just herd mentality. A couple 'experts' say the 2.5-10x24 is 'bad' and everyone follows. I guess all those experts are dead now since they aren't complaining about the 24 tubes. actually, it's all quite amusing.
If I was to get a 1x-something, yes, the vortex additional 10 top end is 'better', but I'm no expert.
Sounds like you got an axe to grind...

sorry peoples views are allowed to evolve
 

trouble-maker

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Geez, am I getting quoted as bashing the gen3? I think it's a phenomenal scope and am glad I bought one.


Just to be clear, 1) I don't think I'm some carbine master and never portrayed myself as such, and 2) on something like an "up" drill, I'm just as fast with a Gen3 as I am a reflex sight.

When you get into movement-while-shooting, fast transitions, and shooting from awkward positions, this is when the eyebox constraints start coming into play. Anyone who claims any LPVO is "just like" a reflex sight at 1x is just not doing the kind of shooting I'm doing. I'm fine with saying that the trade-offs strongly favor the LPVO in the aggregate, but let's not exaggerate what doesn't need to be exaggerated.

Never said you didn't like it, but found quick acquisition is problematic. As you just said again, 1x is not nearly as repeatable than a reflex, especially when you aren't standing still.
 

trouble-maker

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Where did I say I was an expert? Oh yeah I didn't but you said you were "no expert". Not an expert and never claimed to be but have hands on with both and one for many years so just giving the experience with both. Do you have either?

And don't own a T2 so can't say but it's the same as some other red dots I have. Actually a little better as the eye piece is bigger so it's larger area to look through.
Calling myself 'no expert' is called self deprecation to try and lighten the mood. I have over 100K in gear. too many T2s to count, (too many dead bodies to count) and i've tried a friends 1x and, due to the reasons I've cited, not really interested. If you like it fine; enjoy!. Again, the main point of my initial post, was how fickle and wishy-washy ppl are regarding scopes of that class, especially the 24 tube aspect. It really didn't have anything to do with 1x except it not being a part of the 2.5-10 wasn't the complaint back in the day. Glad you like your whatever (eotech no doubt citing your demeanor) over a T2.
Glad you are a staff member, you really know how to treat the members. btw, I've been around here under another name for 12+ years.
 
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Rob01

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Calling my self 'no expert' is called self deprecation to try and lighten the mood. I have over 100K in gear. too many T2s to count, (too many dead bodies to count) and i've tried a friends 1x and, due to the reasons I've cited, not really interested. If you like it fine; enjoy!. Again, the main point of my initial post, was how fickle and wishy-washy ppl are regarding scopes of that class; especially the 24 tube aspect. It really didn't have anything to do with lack of 1x except that wasn't the complaint back in the day.. Glad you like your whatever (eotech no doubt citing your demeanor) over a T2.
Glad you are a staff member, you really know how to treat the members. btw, I've been around here under another name for 10 years.

Glad you have a lot of gear. Guy who dies with the most wins right? LOL

Been a staff member for about 13 years now and yes I do know how to treat members. I figured you had been here from your posts and banned for some reason. I am sure you will be again. Not by me as I don't care that much and with the way you post it shouldn't be long before another mod does. Have fun while you're here. ;)
 

trouble-maker

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Glad you have a lot of gear. Guy who dies with the most wins right? LOL

Been a staff member for about 13 years now and yes I do know how to treat members. I figured you had been here from your posts and banned for some reason. I am sure you will be again. Not by me as I don't care that much and with the way you post it shouldn't be long before another mod does. Have fun while you're here. ;)
The only reason I finally mentioned what I have is because you persist with the lame line around here "well, what do you have?"

I've never been banned. Just got tired of egotistical little fools such as yourself and don't return. It's been a few years, so changed emails, lost my pwd, had to create a new account. Have fun on your benchrest.
 

Rob01

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When you get into movement-while-shooting, fast transitions, and shooting from awkward positions, this is when the eyebox constraints start coming into play. Anyone who claims any LPVO is "just like" a reflex sight at 1x is just not doing the kind of shooting I'm doing. I'm fine with saying that the trade-offs strongly favor the LPVO in the aggregate, but let's not exaggerate what doesn't need to be exaggerated.

My comparison is from a proper shouldering/eye relief and using them that way. Of course a scope, any scope, with eye relief won't be able to do all the odd head positions or changes in eye relief or cheek weld. I used my 1-6 in 3 gun matches and it worked fast on 1x for that. For crazy positions the 1x would be better.

I went a took a shot through mine to show people what it looks like properly shouldered. Just to give people an idea. I suck at through the scope pics too so it's a little better in person.
 

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Rob01

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The only reason I finally mentioned what I have is because you persist with the lame line around here "well, what do you have?"

I've never been banned. Just got tired of egotistical little fools such as yourself and don't return. It's been a few years, so changed emails, lost my pwd, had to create a new account. Have fun on your benchrest.

Have fun stacking your bodies hard charger. LOL
 

Sericus

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This back and forth reminds me of Tiger King lol.... Okay back to topic. Looking at mounts for the RG3. I'm used to an Elcan 1-4, and was told it's about 1.5" height. I'm also used to Spuhr on my SRS.

I've been recommended Scalarworks and Badger. Both look good, but why not stick with the Vortex cantilever mounts?
 

chrome

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    This back and forth reminds me of Tiger King lol.... Okay back to topic. Looking at mounts for the RG3. I'm used to an Elcan 1-4, and was told it's about 1.5" height. I'm also used to Spuhr on my SRS.

    I've been recommended Scalarworks and Badger. Both look good, but why not stick with the Vortex cantilever mounts?

    Generally speaking, You'd be served well by all three in my opinion. But how does your budget and attachment needs look in current day?
     
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    Rob01

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    Have used my 1-6 and the 1-10 in 1.435” height mounts. It feels like a good height for my set ups to shoulder quickly and also to take some precision shots.
     
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    Sericus

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    Generally speaking, You'd be served well by all three in my opinion. But how does your budget and attachment needs look in current day?

    That's a good point, Vortex told me today the RG3 is 6-8 months out. So guess I'll have a lot of time to think. The Scalarworks looks great, and I like the leveling system similar to the Spuhr. The badger looks good for extra mods.

    I'm really excited by this optic, and the above photo of the red dot looks great. Wish the wait wasn't so long. Maybe we should protest that Japan reopen their economy too and start cranking out more of these.

    The only other optic I'd be interested is this guy...
     

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    chrome

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    That's a good point, Vortex told me today the RG3 is 6-8 months out. So guess I'll have a lot of time to think. The Scalarworks looks great, and I like the leveling system similar to the Spuhr. The badger looks good for extra mods.

    I'm really excited by this optic, and the above photo of the red dot looks great. Wish the wait wasn't so long. Maybe we should protest that Japan reopen their economy too and start cranking out more of these.

    The only other optic I'd be interested is this guy...

    Gotcha. I'll admit I thought the scalar leveling system would be a gimmick, but it was as advertised for me. Super quick and it's level.

    Go with what your wallet can tolerate!
     

    Dthomas3523

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    The only reason I finally mentioned what I have is because you persist with the lame line around here "well, what do you have?"

    I've never been banned. Just got tired of egotistical little fools such as yourself and don't return. It's been a few years, so changed emails, lost my pwd, had to create a new account. Have fun on your benchrest.

    In that case take a week off to consider forgetting the password to this account as well.
     

    erwos

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    So, new topic for discussion... I've been writing a review, and finally realized why I was having slightly more trouble than usual while trying to bang smaller steel at 1x zoom from distance. The way the reticle is constructed, it seems like when you're down at 1x and then turn the illumination up, you de facto have a 5.5 MOA aiming dot due to how the broken circle aiming aid collapses down and illuminates. (This is not an issue without illumination on due to the broken circle's transparency.) Given that the Razor Gen2's dot is supposedly .5MOA (according to the JM-1 reticle manual), this is a substantial change.

    Am I missing or misunderstanding something?
     

    Dthomas3523

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    Come on! You can't ban him this early. I thought there was an unspoken forum rule that people get banned AFTER they bring up concrete and benchpress.

    ILya

    This one wasn’t shaping up to be fun 😢

    Pretty interesting how he figured out his password for his old account that quickly.
     

    wizzles

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    So, new topic for discussion... I've been writing a review, and finally realized why I was having slightly more trouble than usual while trying to bang smaller steel at 1x zoom from distance. The way the reticle is constructed, it seems like when you're down at 1x and then turn the illumination up, you de facto have a 5.5 MOA aiming dot due to how the broken circle aiming aid collapses down and illuminates. (This is not an issue without illumination on due to the broken circle's transparency.) Given that the Razor Gen2's dot is supposedly .5MOA (according to the JM-1 reticle manual), this is a substantial change.

    Am I missing or misunderstanding something?
    The reticles are quite different. Does the illumination only circle the inner dot, or does that tiny inner dot also light up?
    Gen 3 EBR 9 MRAD Reticle Subtensions
    Gen 2e VMR2 MRAD Reticle Subtensions
     

    Trigger Monkey

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    It illuminates like this, only more blindingly so if you set it too high.

    IMG_2160_close in.jpg

    Thanks to the power of first focal plane when you dial that down to 1X you get an image like the below sight picture, essentially a 5.5 MOA dot, if I remember right the target was between 7-10 yards away. This is very similar to the Short Dot which had a 5 MOA dot if memory serves me right.

    img_2156-jpg.7288041
     

    erwos

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    Just to be clear, I wasn't really complaining, there are arguments to be made for a 5.5MOA dot at 1x, I just wanted to confirm that my thinking was correct before I wrote something dumb and wrong.
     

    schlaiek

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    My RG3 is in a scalerworks (my first experience with the brand) and I found the leveling system interesting, but not very accurate. it's a neat concept, but I found the traditional methods far more accurate. everything else about the mount though is very nice. no snag points or 1/2" nuts to bust your knuckles on if you are running a carbine with side charging.
     

    Sericus

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    I’m thinking to purchase the scalarworks - razor combo. What other mount should I consider? May be badgers?

    Have you used Spuhr's leveling system? I was wondering how accurate that little screw could be on the Scalarworks compared to Spuhr's. Intuitive for sure, but when you say it wasn't accurate, how much was it off?
     
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    chrome

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    Have you used Spuhr's leveling system? I was wondering how accurate that little screw could be on the Scalarworks compared to Spuhr's. Intuitive for sure, but when you say it wasn't accurate, how much was it off?

    Id be curious to this as well. I have 4 spuhr mounts and only 1 scalar mount, but I found the scalar quicker to get setup and level than the spuhr system.

    Scalars system took a bit more guess work out of how hard and long (phrasing!) To keep the wedge mounted with the spuhr system.
     

    Sogan

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    looks like both models are currently in stock at EuroOptic
     

    SN13

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    My comparison is from a proper shouldering/eye relief and using them that way. Of course a scope, any scope, with eye relief won't be able to do all the odd head positions or changes in eye relief or cheek weld. I used my 1-6 in 3 gun matches and it worked fast on 1x for that. For crazy positions the 1x would be better.

    I went a took a shot through mine to show people what it looks like properly shouldered. Just to give people an idea. I suck at through the scope pics too so it's a little better in person.

    Love the cat window bed. 😉
     
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    vigildom7

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    I just backordered one from liberty optics (BDC reticle) cant beat the price!
    I dont doubt a lot of places will be backordered on these for awhile.
     

    Sogan

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    I just backordered one from liberty optics (BDC reticle) cant beat the price!
    I dont doubt a lot of places will be backordered on these for awhile.
    I was going to go that route. Price was really good but I found one in stock so the increase to get it now was appealing
     

    Jaron3

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    That's a good point, Vortex told me today the RG3 is 6-8 months out. So guess I'll have a lot of time to think. The Scalarworks looks great, and I like the leveling system similar to the Spuhr. The badger looks good for extra mods.

    I'm really excited by this optic, and the above photo of the red dot looks great. Wish the wait wasn't so long. Maybe we should protest that Japan reopen their economy too and start cranking out more of these.

    The only other optic I'd be interested is this guy...
    @Sericus What is that guy? Looks sexy.
     

    RTV

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    Thats the optic Vortex makes that just won a military contract.

    looks sexy, wonder when it will become available to the public and at what price... i cant see anything like that going for less thank 3,000$
     

    erwos

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    looks sexy, wonder when it will become available to the public and at what price... i cant see anything like that going for less thank 3,000$
    I would wager the price would be closer to $10k+, but we'll see.
     

    Sogan

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    I would wager the price would be closer to $10k+, but we'll see.
    I can see it going for quite a bit more than 3k. 1-10 sells for 2k and I doubt that technology would sell for only 1k more
     

    RTV

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    I would wager the price would be closer to $10k+, but we'll see.
    Undoubtedly more than 3k... that's just the starting point for what I could possibly imagine street pricing going for.
     

    Scholz79

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    Hi all,
    New to the forum and first post, so apologies if this isn't the correct thread for my question. I’m currently building out a mk12 mock1 (not clone correct) and I’m stuck on glass choice. I’m looking at either RG3 or the NF atacr 1-8, would be going in a scalarworks mount.
    I would love to hear some first hand experience, with pros and cons of both.
    thanks🍻
     

    vmpglenn

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    Hi all,
    New to the forum and first post, so apologies if this isn't the correct thread for my question. I’m currently building out a mk12 mock1 (not clone correct) and I’m stuck on glass choice. I’m looking at either RG3 or the NF atacr 1-8, would be going in a scalarworks mount.
    I would love to hear some first hand experience, with pros and cons of both.
    thanks🍻

    Welcome!

    I'd encourage you to do some quick searching -- there are a ton of threads on the ATACR 1-8 and this one is obviously full of info about the very new RG3.
     

    erwos

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    I ran the Razor Gen3 at a pistol/carbine class today.

    Long story made short, it did great. We did a lot of shooting at 50-75yd target arrays, some of which were AC-sized steel, and I didn't think the 5.5MOA dot made a big difference one way or the other. No eyebox issues, and both eyes open worked a little better than previously. Still skeptical it's AS fast as reflex sight off weird positions, but it was working fine for me in run-and-gun mode, including moving and shooting. I think being able to crank to 10x way outweighs those flaws.

    I will repeat my assertion that people pondering selling their Gen II-Es for this really need to make the call about whether they're going past 400yds in their match. I don't think the Gen III should be an auto-upgrade button for everyone.