I'm thinking of ordering a Vudoo V22s for use in benchrest ARA 50, although it's probably not for competition so much as for personal development and pleasure. I was wondering if there were any of you experienced people who would be willing to chat with me by phone to help me decide what to order? I'm kind of new to BR and to rifle shooting in general with less than 6 months experience. Even better if someone is in the Northern VA area and able to show me one of the guns and discuss Vudoo vs. alternatives. Thanks.
- Thread starter RAVAGE88
- Start date
Hi Folks,
How do you resolve FTF in your V22S? we polished everything internally the bolt to suppress drag, changed the spring but still got missfires, mostly on ELLEY where the brass is smaller on the basement rim compare to lapua
How do you resolve FTF in your V22S? we polished everything internally the bolt to suppress drag, changed the spring but still got missfires, mostly on ELLEY where the brass is smaller on the basement rim compare to lapua
If you have a crescent tip firing pin try the 16 lbs. spring and back the sear one revolution from bottom out. This will help some, but you will still have an FTF every 20 or 30 rounds. The best solution is to change the firing pin to a chisel point, they are available from VGW. I have change them in 5 V22S and have 100% ignition with either Eley or Lapua ammo.
You may also want to check the headspace in your rifle.
Evelio.
I haven't seen RAVAGE88 touch the subject yet 5/17. I'm still getting case in loading port because of "binding" or sticking.
Why dont you just give Mike a call at the shop?
I did and they've been very helpful, but I wanted to see what various shooters thought.
Thanks Evelio, i don't have a crescent tip firing Pin. What is a chisel point ? the normal one?
When I sent my V22-S in for re-barreling, they changed my firing pin from a crescent to a chisel and explained that guys were complaining of FTF's with the crescent. I've got the 2nd heaviest spring installed (I forget what lb. that is at the moment) and have had only ONE FTF since and that was with ELEY CLub. Never with LAPUA or SK.
With a crescent pin, the indentation in the case looks like a half moon, and always inside of the rim, the indent never touches the edge of the rim. The chisel point looks like the head of a small flat head screwdriver, it will indent to the edge of the rim.
Evelio.
OK GTI, i have a "normal" firing pin, and we have the hardest spring installed. The second spring is the red one i believe, after the blue. The red one is 14lbs. The issue is more on the firing pin travel . We solved the issue.
I have a crescent pin on a turbo v3 with no issues. I don't understand the added value of a crescent pin.
I don't either!
All I know is when they sent my BA back, it had a "Chisel" firing pin with a note that said something like; we have found out, through testing, that the chisel head on the firing pin performs better. You are correct regarding firing pin travel! If that's not set right (number of turns out from bottomed out-mine was 3) you're not going to get full exposure of the firing pin whether it be crescent or chisel which will lead to FTF's.
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Yes, I get it Jim. Sometimes it works just leaving it seated. Other times it has to be removed and turned. AND other times it's just a DUD (lol)
Why order a custom gun with a chamber cut for Lapua/SK, then bitch about it not shooting Eley well?
Just shoot the ammo its designed for.
Just shoot the ammo its designed for.
FTF issues are not generally chamber related. Most of the time Head spacing and or ignition is where to look first. I have a V3 Turbo with crescent pin. It fires Eley, Lapua, and RWS with no FTF issues. I also have a 360 Vudoo with chisel tip pin and it fires anything I choose to feed it. It has been my experience that crescent style pins don't work well with SAP ignition. Going to a heavy pin spring can be counter productive as it creates more ignition vibration. I believe the chisel tip pin with the lightest spring that still gives reliable ignition is the way to go with SAP ignition. Crescent pins do work with PAS ignition such as my V3 turbo but I have not seen any benefit to the crescent pin shape.
I might add - shoot the ammo that works the best in YOUR rifle
My V22-S shoots Eley black box pretty good right now, considering the ammo supply issues. I've got 2 different lots of black box that shoot almost identical in terms of accuracy and consistency. The CX I have shoots almost as good, so I shoot the Eley and have fun. The majority of the time, my scores are a result of "when" the guy pulling the trigger pulls the trigger, not the ammo.
Could you please explain the difference in a Lapua/Sk chamber and an Eley chamber?
TKH (4628)
Well, I'll have to get back with you on that one as soon as I find a tape measure that will go in that hole. Until then I don't have a clue!
I have had zero issues with my single shot. I might work the bolt more aggressively than you though.
I have to try to rip the bolt out of the reciver to get it to eject and it still leaves empty cases inside. The run the bolt faster/harder is a bandage to the real problem. I’ve been there done that…..
Bummer. I would get in touch with Vudoo and see what they say.
I grew up shooting Anschutz round and flat bottomed actions. My "flick" of the bolt is just how I learned do it.
I contacted vudoo 3 weeks ago and was told someone would get back to me about it. I’m still waiting
I personally know a lot of people shooting V22S myself included, never heard of anybody having extraction or ejection problems, only FTF, and that has been resolved once the firing pins were replaced with the chisel point pins.
Evelio.
Tony, the only difference in chambers is related to the type of reamer used, and the amount of engraving in the bullet. You should know the difference better than anybody else, especially after all the discussions with Kevin N.
Evelio.
Gibby73
In the front of the bolt, there is the extractor, and a keeper, the ejector is in the back of the loading gate, you have to pull the bolt all the way back for the case to hit the ejector and kick it out. If you open the bolt slowly and pull it back, chances are that your case will drop in the loading gate.
If you mount an EMPTY case in the face of the bolt, the extractor and keeper should keep it in place, unless somebody have tinker with the parts. If you try it with a loaded round, it may fall off due to the weight of the bullet.
Evelio.
In the front of the bolt, there is the extractor, and a keeper, the ejector is in the back of the loading gate, you have to pull the bolt all the way back for the case to hit the ejector and kick it out. If you open the bolt slowly and pull it back, chances are that your case will drop in the loading gate.
If you mount an EMPTY case in the face of the bolt, the extractor and keeper should keep it in place, unless somebody have tinker with the parts. If you try it with a loaded round, it may fall off due to the weight of the bullet.
Evelio.
Gibby73,
I am sorry Sir, but you are wrong, I am a gunsmith and have built hundreds of rifles, so I know what I am talking about. The two parts in the front of the bolt, the one with the hook, is the extractor, the one with the flat side is the keeper. There is nothing else in the face of the bolt to eject the case. If you look in the loading gate in the very back of the slot you will see a raised area, and thats where when you pull the bolt back, the rim of the case will hit it and kick the case out of the action.
Evelio.
I am sorry Sir, but you are wrong, I am a gunsmith and have built hundreds of rifles, so I know what I am talking about. The two parts in the front of the bolt, the one with the hook, is the extractor, the one with the flat side is the keeper. There is nothing else in the face of the bolt to eject the case. If you look in the loading gate in the very back of the slot you will see a raised area, and thats where when you pull the bolt back, the rim of the case will hit it and kick the case out of the action.
Evelio.
The keeper on my bolt doesn’t even touch the case or rim and my loading block doesn’t have a raised area it has a place milled out from Vudoo. The loading block is identical to that on the Remington 40x
Hello
On my VudooV22S I have systematic ejection problems on all the cartridges I shoot, the factory sent me a new set of extractors it's always the same problem.
I sent a mail to Greg who answered me that a variant was in test.... the problem is that the extractors do not take out a loaded ammunition which had FTF or in case of problem on a match the referee can ask to take out the loaded ammunition, I will be obliged either to take it out with a small screwdriver, which can by dint of wounding the entrance of chamber.
for FTF it is only with tenex.
Jacques
On my VudooV22S I have systematic ejection problems on all the cartridges I shoot, the factory sent me a new set of extractors it's always the same problem.
I sent a mail to Greg who answered me that a variant was in test.... the problem is that the extractors do not take out a loaded ammunition which had FTF or in case of problem on a match the referee can ask to take out the loaded ammunition, I will be obliged either to take it out with a small screwdriver, which can by dint of wounding the entrance of chamber.
for FTF it is only with tenex.
Jacques
I also contacted Greg about about 3 weeks ago and he passed me on to Paul which I haven’t heard from. I have no extraction issues with a loaded round or fired one. No FTF with any ammo I’ve tried only ejection of the empty cases after firing, most end up staying inside the gun on the loading block and I have to dig them out
Gibby73,
First all, I should have asked this from the beginning. What is your action set up, RBLP, RBRP, LBRP, LBLP, the reason I ask is that the location of the extractor and keeper in the bolt is different depending on what side of the action is the loading port located.
Now I want you to try loading an empty case on the chamber, close the bolt, open the bolt, and pull it back rather fast until it stops against the bolt release, and see what happens to the case, it should drop right out, if it falls back into the action, that means that the extractor was mounted in the wrong side of the bolt by mistake. This would only happens if you ordered just the action, and had somebody else build the complete rifle. If you ordered a barreled action or complete rifle from VGW I know it was tested, and build correctly.
Riberac.
Due to the match chamber in your gun or practically on any other benchrest rifle with a match chamber due to the amount of engraving on the bullet, it will fail to pull a loaded round out of the chamber. The only way to have a 100% extraction on a loaded round is when there is practically no engraving on the bullet which actually is detrimental to the accuracy of the gun, specially for benchrest ARA competition.
Evelio.
This rifle was a complete vudoo build. Right bolt , Right port the hooked extractor is on the right side of the bolt and the keeper is on the left. I know there in the right spot. With a empty case and the bolt briskly pulled till it hits the bolt stop the empty case is left laying in the middle of the loading block and pointing the same direction as it was when it came out of the chamber. When it does eject the empty case just barely makes it out of the gun and ends up under the trigger guard area. Most empty cases don’t even leave the shooting bench
Greetings & Salutations Gibby73,
I think I've got the solution to your one and only issue with your V22S, which, if I'm understanding you correctly, is that a large percentage of spent cartridges remain in the feeding tray after you cycle the bolt after firing. When I first started shooting mine, I experienced the same thing. To remedy this, I did what was probably the exact opposite of what many have tried, that is to say I experimented by cycling the bolt probably much slower (but not too slow) and concentrated on trying to maintain complete control of the casing with the bolt. Now, during matches or practice the spent casings all land about 4" away and nearly in the identical spot. I found that what worked for me was to ensure that my motion in working the bolt was slow, smooth and one continuous movement. I'll say that I baby this rifle and absolutely love it.
Also, over time, now I can make the casing land off the bench or about a foot away. The only exceptions are when something distracts me when I cycle the bolt and, when it does, I just take my finger and flip the spent casing out, while barely moving off the rifle. This happens very rarely by the by, but every now and then it will happen.
When I first started using the V22S and was experiencing the spent casing remaining in the tray, I started moving off the rifle and watching how I was cycling the bolt, which led me to how I now cycle the bolt. I've never tried an aggressive cycling FYI, as I found it unnecessary.
I think Hoser probably cycles similar to the way I do but am not sure.
Regards,
UncleDunk
I will have to try your method out when I get back to the range. Thanks
On a lot of rimfire actions, the "keeper" also gives the energy for the case to be ejected. I call it the "pusher" on my actions. The "hook" pulls the case out, the "pusher" retains it in the bolt until it hits the "ejector" teat on the rear of the stroke. The teat can be many things, on a 40X or most customs it is a small protrusion that hits the case rim and is located on the loading ramp. On lots of guns it is a dedicated small sheetmetal part behind the ramp or magazine. Some are in the magazine. I don't know what Vudoo does. When the case hits the ejector it pulls the case slightly from the bolt and the pusher moves out against the spring force holding it in. When the case moves past the bump on the pusher, the spring force forces it back to centerline, "ejecting" the case from the gun. The bolt does not need to be pulled back fast or slow or ??? to make this happen. The energy to eject the case is contained within the extraction/ejection design of the bolt. Sometimes a tuning of these parts and spring are needed for reliable ejection. Maybe this helps.
The vudoo loading platform is like the old Remington 40x what I have found with the V22S is the keeper has no bump/button to make contact with the case rim or case itself to load the spring to flip the empty case out. With the bolt removed and a empty case inserted in the bolt nose and when moved to the right simulating ejection the keeper doesn’t move or have any tension on it. The extractor is the only one making contact and is the only one doing any work
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Same thing.Since I got on this forum a lo.t of us have been bitching about bolt being sticky or binding. I can eject a FTF with no problem on the Vudoo so its not engraving that much. On my CZ with Lilja barrel you can not get a loaded round out without digging, now thats engraving.
Fred
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I think you missed the point of his post.
Hozzie,
You are right. The point of my post was to clear up the mistaken idea that Vudoo somehow chambers their rifles only to shoot Lapua ammo.
I'm quite sure they want their rifles to shoot all brands of ammo well.
Many rifles with somewhat different chambers will shoot good consistent Eley just as well as they will shoot good consistent Lapua.
One can certainly argue it is currently easier to find good consistent Lapua now than Eley, but it has little to nothing to do with the barrel chamber.
Evelio, I do recall the thread about chambers with Kevin N. He indicated he believes the Bill Meyers chamber (now called Kevin N chamber) allows Lapua to perform better than other chambers. I'm sure his opinion is based on his experience. But I, like many others have seen different chambers produce excellent results with Lapua.
It is very easy to dismiss what others are using especially if it didn't work for you. But we should not dismiss things we see performing at a very high level just because we (ourselves) can't make them work.
TKH (4628)
You are right. The point of my post was to clear up the mistaken idea that Vudoo somehow chambers their rifles only to shoot Lapua ammo.
I'm quite sure they want their rifles to shoot all brands of ammo well.
Many rifles with somewhat different chambers will shoot good consistent Eley just as well as they will shoot good consistent Lapua.
One can certainly argue it is currently easier to find good consistent Lapua now than Eley, but it has little to nothing to do with the barrel chamber.
Evelio, I do recall the thread about chambers with Kevin N. He indicated he believes the Bill Meyers chamber (now called Kevin N chamber) allows Lapua to perform better than other chambers. I'm sure his opinion is based on his experience. But I, like many others have seen different chambers produce excellent results with Lapua.
It is very easy to dismiss what others are using especially if it didn't work for you. But we should not dismiss things we see performing at a very high level just because we (ourselves) can't make them work.
TKH (4628)
Tony, I don't recall you standing next to me during the period of time that I did what I did, therefore you have zero clue what is and what isn't a mistaken idea. You've asked no questions or given any indication that you've sought to understand, however, the demand for you to be understood has been apparent.
I've long stated what one can expect to see if CCI, Eley and other ammo was chambered in a Vudoo and obviously, that's what's being reported by those that have tried it. I've also stated for an appreciable amount of time what one can do to shoot the other ammo in my chamber. Until such time that you stop and think about what's actually happening here, you'll continue to sound foolish.
Hope this helps,
MB
To
I don't remember ever saying that it takes a special chamber for Lapua ammo. nor ever reading anywhere that VGW specifically recommends the use of Lapua ammo. in their guns.
I have several rimfire reamers, a few Calfee's, Lilja, Win. 52, Bentz, Anschutz, and a couple of Meyers (Kevin N.) etc. I use whatever the customer specifies, surprisingly a lot of them ask for the Nevius chamber. The two reamers that I use, have micrometer stops, so I can change the amount of bullet engraving, but after a lot of testing, will have to agree with Kevin that with this particular reamer, minimal engraving ( .030"/.040" ) with Lapua Midas ammo. will produce excellent accuracy, and still shoots damm good with Eley match.
I will agree with you, that there are several other chambers that will shoot Lapua or Eley just as accurate or better, but I still think that the most important reason for great accuracy is a killer barrel, and good ammo. regardless of the brand.
Evelio.
Tony,
I don't remember ever saying that it takes a special chamber for Lapua ammo. nor ever reading anywhere that VGW specifically recommends the use of Lapua ammo. in their guns.
I have several rimfire reamers, a few Calfee's, Lilja, Win. 52, Bentz, Anschutz, and a couple of Meyers (Kevin N.) etc. I use whatever the customer specifies, surprisingly a lot of them ask for the Nevius chamber. The two reamers that I use, have micrometer stops, so I can change the amount of bullet engraving, but after a lot of testing, will have to agree with Kevin that with this particular reamer, minimal engraving ( .030"/.040" ) with Lapua Midas ammo. will produce excellent accuracy, and still shoots damm good with Eley match.
I will agree with you, that there are several other chambers that will shoot Lapua or Eley just as accurate or better, but I still think that the most important reason for great accuracy is a killer barrel, and good ammo. regardless of the brand.
Evelio.
The consensus, at least on this forum is that Vudoo chambers favor Lapua. I have found that not to be true with my gun and several other repeaters I have shot. Quite the contrary. My best ammo to date is a lot of RWS R50. I have also had some very good Eley BB. The most accurate Vudoo repeater I shoot against is currently shooting RWS. Really makes be doubt those people who claim their guns will only shoot Lapua!
Littlesister,
I will have to agree with you on what the forum consensus is, but as far as I am aware of, the V22S single shot rifles chambered by VGW supposed to have what is called the Ravage chamber which according to Mike B. was designed to FAVOR Lapua ammo. with no implication about the use of any other brand of ammo. but being a match chamber, I could see some problems using lower grade ammo.
Several of this single shot actions have been re-barreled by different gunsmiths, so there is no telling what type of chamber they have on it.
As far as the repeater actions, I am going to assume that 99% of them were chambered by VGW and have no idea of what type of chamber they put on them.
Evelio.
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